|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 3:26 pm: |
What I was getting at was not webradio stations playing songs you would hear on the radio.
I am talking about them playing the songs of the artists who are selling their own CDs. Not the Chemical Brothers.
So you could buy the CD, or you could buy the file to put on your MP3. You could still copy either, but at least you couldn't just copy the stream.
Which means at first it would start small and underground. Until more and more good bands got on there, and more and more people got turned on and suddenly it's the Next Big Thing and the RIAA is considering suicide.
The bandwidth costs would have to be supported by somebody- the bands, you think, or the listeners? Donations from listeners but if you gotta pay to go no one will.
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 5:52 am: |
I just read the Salon article our lovely hostess posted, and I was not aware that the gubmint wanted to impose fees on net radio ABOVE and BEYOND those which they already pay to ASCAP and BMI. That's just silly. If they are paying the publishers of the music for the rights, it seems to me the gubmint and the RIAA have no reason to interfere. They are expetin net radio to pay more for their rights than regular radio, which might make sense if they were distributing perfect digital copies, but we are talking about highly-compressed streams.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 11:53 pm: |
My band's been together for 27 years. Thanks to commercials, we've earned about $270,000. Divide that by 27 and you get $10,000 a year. Now split that among three people(the co-writers of the songs) and you get $3300.00 a year. Now factor in the cost of renting rehearsal space, buying equipment, touring, quiting jobs to tour, etc. etc. Its far far less than minimum wage. Devoting one's life to the arts is a tough haul. It requires alot of sacrifice. And even when you finally do make a few bucks it ain't nearly enough. Would I have chosen another path? Never!
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 11:41 pm: |
I'm a slut.
Ah, don't be silly. Nobody's ever offered me money for anything I created, so you're way ahead of me. If Bill Burroughs can do Nike ads, anything goes, as long as the artist gets to decide.
As for internet radio, if they want to survive, they're going to have to work with ASCAP and BMI to create a model for licensing the music they play, just like air-radio does. Honestly, I think that the ASCAP model may well be the thing that could save the whole shebang: if they can create a personal-level license, affordable to individuals but still bringing in money for the artists, that would allow people access to their catalogs, it would solve a whole lot of the complications. I know BMI is trying to work with a web-radio-like model, but tht doesn't quite cut it. I have a 20-gig in-dash MP3 player in my car, so I want files on disk, not a streaming broadcast.
The big labels are making so much noise because they know that the one thing which gave them so much power, to wit, control of the means of distribution, has been irrevocably wrenched from them. I would be more sympathetic to their pleas if they hadn't proved where they stand on artists' rights by trying to screw the music PUBLISHERS out of payment for electronic distribution themselves.
I hope things fall into place, because I don't thing we as a society are gooing to decide that artists should be granted a comfortable salary by the government and allowed to create without concern for profit.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 11:26 pm: |
Confession time, Blackjack... after buying a CD, did you bang Valerie?
Nope, but my girlfriend talked to her about Super-Heroine boobs, and she showed up at a club tonight and sat next to me, but only because it was the only place to sit.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 11:24 pm: |
Vote Libertarian. You won't have to worry about 'wackass' laws. ;]
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 9:46 pm: |
re: web radio
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 9:42 pm: |
Vote Libertarian. You won't have to worry about 'wackass' laws. ;]
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 9:39 pm: |
The only block at this point is webradio. It could possibly (within 10 years or less) eclipse regular radio.
The trick will be keeping the FCC from making all those wackass rules that radio stations have to abide by. And that's not much of a trick- if you gotta, just put your server in Zimbabwe and give uncle sam the finger.
That, and currently, any asshole who wants to can burn your song from your webradio broadcast himself.
So- we need to find a way to make a webradio broadcast non-saveable. Or at least make it so it's a stone bitch to do it. I am thinking some proprietary playback software.
It could simply not save the files (they only stream in, go to the buffer, come out your speakers and cease to exist.)
The site would accept no downloads that were attempted by anything but the player.
I would also suggest a honeypot file- each time you download, the player makes a file, in proprietary format. It contains pure gibberish. Joe Cracker won't know that until he has developed a drinking problem from trying to figure it out.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 7:55 pm: |
the rules have changed forever. Musicians will have to take charge of their professional destinies. That means selling your music over the internet. That is what I 'm about to do myself.I think the big record companies will eventually become extinct. I hope that people will support musicians by buying their cds from websites etc.
If the cost of recording and manufacturing a cd is $3.00. I sell it to you for $8.00. I make $5.00. Thats alot better than the 90 cents the major labels dole out.
The only money I've ever made from rock and roll is thru my publishing. I own my songs 100%. I've sold the rights to use some of my songs to Mazda, NBC, Pepsi and Suzuki. I'm am currently suing Budweiser for using one of my songs without my permission. If I had done what RCA had wanted me to do, sell them the rights to my songs, I'd be fucked today. As it is, I've made a few hundred grand by licensing them for commercials. I'm a slut. Kelsey grammar recently sang a tune of mine in NBC promo spots for Frazier.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 5:03 pm: |
"Or does your ISP shut your site down if you go over the bandwidth limits?"
This is Mississippi, they don't care. Most people here don't know what FTP is. It is crazy you cando: port scan, sniff, and all manner of things with impunity, it is scary in a way.
As for the FTP, I rarely put it up, and never advertise it on IRC or anything like that. This mostly just for transfering files between friends of mine...
The only FTP on this network that has been kicked off (that I know of) was a friend of my brothers, although he was on IRC trading movies etc, which is tricky and too much hassle for me...
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 4:02 pm: |
I believe a good anti-fungal and a dose of yoghurt helps control mistlethrush
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 3:59 pm: |
Hey Marc - while I agree with your sentiments regarding internet piracy, a question-
To what extent do you think the "rules" of the game have totally changed forever for the music industry with the advent of music swapping on the internet?
Is it a futile exercise for a new independant band to go searching for that elusive record/CD deal and do the "new" rules dictate that a band must write their music in an expectation that it will all get pirated and copied and therefore run the band accordingly - maybe what I am alluding to here is that are people beginning to realise that they are really only in the position to write music for the purposes of pleasure and artistic endevour, but shouldn't ever expect to make a living from it?
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 3:47 pm: |
Confession time, Blackjack... after buying a CD, did you bang Valerie?
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 3:36 pm: |
I'm most likely to buy a CD if I'm seeing the band live, I've found. Especially if the lead singer is cute and she's at the table selling them after the show.
Marc's point about small record shops going under reflects a larger truth: when you do anything to "get back" at the big corporations, the little people are going to get hurt before the people on top. The higher-ups are insulated (sometimes dispicably so) from the minor losses. Smashing the window of the local Starbucks isn't going to bring down the corporation, but it might put some college kids out of work because the owner's insurance rates go up, etc.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 3:03 pm: |
Publishing royalties are generally where the potential money is. Many artists just get performance royalties and are almost forced to sign over or spilt the publishing with the labels - fucking extortion!
As a musician, I see the upside of pirated music as potentially widening your audience. Someone, (who may not have spent $15 on your CD in the first place),listens to it, likes it and buys your next CD. Or, they come see you when you play live which generates (1) a fan and (2) probably more money than you would have made off the royalties of that one CD.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 2:20 pm: |
that makes my $60-$100 a month seem AOK!
heh, I got all excited the other day cuz my bandwidth was down last month after I some major surgery here and other places, then one of the severed head pages ended up on some mailing list and doubled the bandwidth for two days until I pulled the page with a nice note to check back. Sheesh.
Its not easy being so popular
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 12:18 pm: |
ok, here goes.
When my band was with a major label (RCA) we received 90 cents for every record sold. But, we'd only receive the money after the cost of recording and promoting the record was recouped by the record company. You got to sell around
300,000 copies of a record before you start to see any money.
If you can distribute your own cds or find a company that will do it for you, it is much more profitable to create your own record company.
Of course without the support of a major label's public relations machine the odds of getting any radio play is zero.
There's an article in the new issue of Rolling Stone about independent record stores going out of business because of people burning their own cds. Stores near college campuses are particularly effected. College students are downloading free music off the net or buying cds, copying them, and giving the copies to their friends. This is a real shame. Independent record stores, like college radio, are among the only places where alternative bands can promote and sell their music. These stores are now closing at an alarming rate. This is another example of how artists are being hurt by internet piracy.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 12:15 pm: |
Justin- are you INSANE?
Or does your ISP shut your site down if you go over the bandwidth limits?
Cause if'n they charge you, it may be a bad idea to put FTP info up publicly.
I know a guy, $62,000 he was charged. He did what you did and some kiddies put warez on his site, told all their friends to download it.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 11:07 am: |
"I'd send $10 to every artist I've stolen from..."
That would make artists happy IF it was about money. Its not. Instead try a Hallmark card, its the gift that keeps giving.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 10:36 am: |
MArc can correct me if I'm wrong, butthe impression I've gotten from my DIY Punk Rock pals is that you can make just as good a living putting out and selling your own records, and touring small clubs constantly, as you can on a standard big-label contract with a charted song. Your face may show up on MTV a lot more, but the labels tend to arrange things (by taking production costs, etc, out of the artist's royalties) that, unless you have several successful records, or negotiate a much better deal, you won't be getting rich.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 10:01 am: |
Actually I've often wondered just how much an artist gets out of the retail selling price of a CD. If I buy a CD for say £15 how much would a fairly popular artist get on average for a newly released CD that's charting reasonably well? Does it differ for as the CD becomes older? How does it work with compilations? I suppose things all depend on the record company but I'd be interested in a rough guide.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 9:52 am: |
Well, um, in this case Marc has a point. Marc, after all, is an artist, and encouraging people to distribute works without paying their creators is not in his best interest.
Granted, the present corporate system, be it for music or movies, screws artists over just as badly as piracy, but that is all the more reason to try and find a system which benefits the creators, rather than another way to fuck them.
I am a hypocrite in this respect, since I do have a fair amount of pirated music, but this is more out of laziness than greed or a feeling of entitlement. If the music I wanted was availible to me digitally for a fair price, I'd pay it. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd send $10 to every artist I've stolen from. Not the label, mind you, but the artist.
I DON'T "share" my collection, tho, so at least I'm not proliferating...
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 6:55 am: |
Quite simply quality was inferior on these products. On the advice of people whose opinions I trust very much, I decided not to invest in something that would have to eventually to sold off and lead to much disappointment. More or less, these would be the Dollar Store of fountains, mostly plastic, and very tipsy. I hope I don't disappoint, but I am sure most people here will take quality over quantity any day.
Why the negative attitude recently. All of your posts seem to have this hopeless nostalgia and/or whining that the forum isn't up to your standards anymore. I have been here as long as most, and I don't honestly remember it being any different.
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 5:44 am: |
Now that you're around, Chrysippvs: What happened to that repro absinthe fountain you were thinking about having in stock?
|Posted on Friday, April 5, 2002 - 12:45 am: |
|Posted on Thursday, April 4, 2002 - 11:39 pm: |
|Posted on Thursday, April 4, 2002 - 10:47 pm: |
Fellow Forum members,
I am sticking my FTP up for a day or so, and thought I would let anyone here get whatever they wanted.
I DO have the evil dead prequel bootleg on the FTP, the quality isn't great (the video itself, not the encoding) but what can you expect from a bootleg?
At any rate here is the info:
user : guest
pass : guest
You should have unlimited upload/download, just get whatever you like...