|Posted on Monday, April 8, 2002 - 12:29 pm: |
OK, I got this one.
Thujone has not been identified as the cause of absinthe's "secondary effects."
It has almost positively been ruled out. It's bullshit. Pure, advertising agency chemistry.
AFAIK, there is some major difficulty detecting the amount (or even presence) accurately even with a gas chromatograph. It requires specialized equipment and people who know how to run it, a very rare combination.
Stovetop stuffing contains thujone- it's in the sage.
I have yet to get that special buzz, no matter how much stuffing I eat.
So, to sum up- forget thujone, forget the word. It's a will o the wisp, a 19th century pseudo-scientist's attempt to explain something 21st century chemistry has yet to figure out.
|Posted on Sunday, April 7, 2002 - 11:32 am: |
I found the article at http://www.lexis.com/ doing a search on absinthe.
|Posted on Sunday, April 7, 2002 - 9:25 am: |
Oxygenee, is a pretty good pastis. However, I think that all that sugar, which it does have, probably covers up something not so pleasant.
On a second note, a good friend of mine did some cooking with pontarlier anis last night, very very good. The thujone really made the chicken interesting, I need to put some vintage pernod in it however, psychotropic chicken....
"Betty says it has more thujone than the spanish brands."
Ted you don't need a GC tester, you just need some betty magic, I think we all do...
|Posted on Sunday, April 7, 2002 - 7:10 am: |
what amuses me is that oxygénée insists that it
doesn't have much thujone, if any, yet there are those that still want to find it in the product...are there there secondary effects from
de-caffeinated coke? i don't think so...yet, i detect a different effect from oxygénée, which is similar to absinthe...
|Posted on Sunday, April 7, 2002 - 6:40 am: |
Now Justin- before we mock- we all know there are some people who can detect where underground water is with a piece of twisted coathanger.
Who am I to doubt that there also exists such as skill to quantify the amount of thujone in an absinthe product through the use of one's tongue and digestive functions.
Whoops, my big toe hurts, must be a big storm on the way, better go batten down the hatches.
|Posted on Sunday, April 7, 2002 - 12:25 am: |
"but I also think it doesn't contain enough thujone."
"Oxygenee did NOT have much thujone in it."
Who says this forum isn't funny...
|Posted on Sunday, April 7, 2002 - 12:07 am: |
Haven't posted for a while, but this thread deserves a comment.
IMHO, Oxygenee is rather good. Quite good in fact. I got some in Paris last summer, thanks to information provided by Petermarc, at a fine liquor store not too far from Montmartre. (Actually it was a tiny place, and the large selection of interesting bottles was tightly wedged into the premises.) I liked Oxy very much when I first tried it, although the next night, when a small group of us tasted it alongside others, the main competition was vintage Berger, which obviously won the evening in a trot. I have been abstemiously hoarding what's left of my bottle of Oxy ever since. However, just for the fun of it, prompted by this thread, I brought it out tonight.
The color is a nice slightly olive peridot, not too dark, not in the least fluorescent or artificial; it looks like it could be natural even though it may not be. At 55%, it is necessarily sweetened, and a light sweetness, along with herbal/anise scent, is detectable in the aroma as one sniffs the top of the bottle.
Straight, it's only lightly bitter. It's a little reminiscent of a German herbal liqueur, or maybe a much less sweet version of Chartreuse. It's very clean, and there is nothing at all artificial about the taste. In sum, it's a good herbal aperitif with just enough sweetness to balance the distinct, bitter quality of the herbs. Wormwood? Yes, although it's not prominent. It reminds me somewhat of several drinks in the category of what the Germans call "krauterlikor" (sorry, can't do umlauts when I write here), although it's distinct from those spirits.
Anyway, I find Oxy to be better tasting - i.e., cleaner, more complex, more natural, and better balanced - than all of the Spanish, except maybe the curious Segarra, which is not a "classic" absinthe (and which is not, in any event, "more complex or better balanced" than Oxy). I even like the taste of Oxy better than that of la Fee, although La Fee is unquestionably "stronger". Sure, I'd take a la Bleue over Oxy without any hesitation, but for a "commercial" product (Pernod-Ricard is a big corporation, after all, so Oxy should presumably be categorized as "commercial"), Oxy is pretty damn good. I like it a lot better than Ricard, and WAY letter than the sadly misnamed Pernod, so I have to concede that the big corporation is doing a reasonably good thing with this product, at least so far. And, on top of all that, it's (sort of) absinthe.
However, despite its overall decent quality, Oxy is only "sort of" absinthe, or absinthe "lite". I therefore very much look forward to trying the new Pontarlier products, which Petermarc (whose judgment in these matters is impeccable) rates considerably higher, and of course, the long-awaited Jade.
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 11:43 pm: |
I just got the new La Fee (La Fee Verte 45%), and its really interesting, but I also think it doesn't contain enough thujone. Perfect louche and smells great with a well balanced flavour, but the drink is all about cosmetic appeal, and lacks the substance and weight of LaBleu or even NS. In my experience, from what I've tasted, the most noticeable thujone amounts were LaBleu, Deva and of course vintage Edouard Pernod (which actually was surprisingly not a far cry from La Bleu #3, although earthier with more wormwood flavour with a beautiful amber colour). I also thought NS seemed to have a lot of thujone, but was a little oily for my taste.... I don't think I'll waste my money on Oxygenee unless I can get it for like $20 from somewhere...
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 11:22 pm: |
From my experience,
Oxygenee did NOT have much thujone in it. It is comparable to La Salla in the amount of thujone it has in it. Most noticeable thujone amounts that I have had are Deva, Serpis, and La Bleue...even though oxygenee was a good drink...I say it's pastis
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 10:23 pm: |
have you got a URL for that article?
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 5:25 pm: |
good to know. My french needs a little work!
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 3:41 pm: |
no, the label says it does contain wormwood, but the levels of thujone have been strictly controlled, something that, it seems, could not be done in the past, but now, new and improved procedures have been found***cough***...legally in france, anything over 45° considering
itself 'absinthe' (the name itself not legally allowed alone on a french label, hence 'aux extraits de plantes d'absinthe' or 'spriteux d'absinthe' , etc.) must also conatain sugar(oxygénée is 55°, pernod 68° is not yet available in france)...i am at a loss presently to explain this, as, i am sure, are the legislateurs
who came up with this rule...except, for instance, that it probably makes it taste much better than if it didn't have any...just remember, it is all for our own good...
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 3:03 pm: |
so is Oxygenee a Pastis or not? Betty says it has more thujone than the spanish brands, but the label on the bottle says (in french) that it contains no wormwood. What gives?
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 2:03 pm: |
I think Oxygenée is better than La Fée, and certainly better than any Spanish absinthe (others may prefer Segarra but I can't get past the brandy barrel taste).
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 1:58 pm: |
Absinthe & Miracle Hedges ... they go together!
|Posted on Saturday, April 6, 2002 - 1:52 pm: |
I saw this article and don't think it has been mentioned here. I didn't realize Pernod-Ricard owned Oxygenee or that it was being marketed globally. This was written in January in an Australian newspaper, Townsville Bulletin.
"Pernod-Ricard (owner of Orlando-Wyndham) has researched it enough over the past century to feel confident that small, safe amounts of wormwood can be included in their racy aperitifs without presenting a particular threat to anybody.
Laws have changed and the company has recommenced making absinthe in France.
This time, it's called Oxygenee, and they're planning a global push -- nearly 160 years after the Cornish quite sensibly brought their miracle hedge to Australia." -Philip White