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Y or TH

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru June 2002 » Archive Thru April 2002 » Y or TH « Previous Next »

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Admin
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

And I would be valedictorian of PRN-U:

there's more where that came from, including late medieval tales of donkey dicks:

http://www.pornokrates.com/tooth.html
Chevalier
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There should be a college course for this.

English Lit 069: "Oral Sex in Proto-Renaissance Fiction"
Admin
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

A young gentleman of the age of twenty years, somewhat disposed to mirth and game, on a time talked with a gentlewoman which was right wise and also merry. This gentlewoman, as she talked with him, happened to look upon his beard (which was but young and grown somewhat upon the overlip and but little grown beneath--as all young men's beards commonly use to grow) said to him thus: "Sir, ye have beard above and none beneath."

And he, hearing her say so, said in sport: "Mistress, ye have a beard beneath and none above."

"Marry," quod she, "then set the one against t'other--" which answer made the gentleman so abashed that he had not one word to answer.


from A HUNDRED MERRY TALES, 15th cent.
Chevalier
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 9:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"And Absolon, hym fil no bet ne wers,
But with his mouth he kiste hir naked ers
Ful savourly, er he were war of this.
Abak he stirte, and thoughte it was amys,
For wel he wiste a womman hath no berd.
He felte a thyng al rough and long yherd,
And seyde, 'Fy! allas! what have I do?'
'Tehee!' quod she, and clapte the wyndow to,
And Absolon gooth forth a sory pas."

(And Absolon, to him it happened no better nor worse,
But with his mouth he kissed her naked ass
With great relish, before he was aware of this.
Back he jumped, and thought it was amiss,
For well he knew a woman has no beard.
He felt a thing all rough and long haired,
And said, "Fie! alas! what have I done?"
"Tehee!" said she, and clapped the window to,
And Absolon goes forth walking sadly.)
Chevalier
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Chaucer + "ye" = fun.

Chaucer + "The Miller's Tale" = FUN!!!!
Marccampbell
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

man this thread is a bitch if you have a lisp.
Chrysippvs
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't think the thorn was in use when the grammatical form of the definite article was used.

The articles in old english are quite a bit different (although the unvoiced thorn sound is used and not voiced the edh sound).

Since we don't have any anglo-saxon speakers in the house, we have to base our pronounciation of OE on Icelandic etc...
- J
_Blackjack
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Mmm...dental fricatives...

As I heard it, the use of "Ye" for "the" was specifically because of a scriptural custom of abbreviating "the" by raising the "e" off the baseline and connecting it to the "Þ" which supposedly (tho I can't see how, exactly) looked like "ye".

My question is, why the heck were they spelling "the" with a "Þ" in the first place? Did it used to be pronounced with the unvoiced fricative?
Chrysippvs
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"'Hear ye, Hear ye' has almost certainly been in continuous use by government. It doesn't seem as if they would have made such a mistake in pronunciation... "


No, it is correct since they are addressing more than one person. Chaucer, especially in the Parson's tale, makes use of many such archaisms...reading him is always fun to me...

- J
Tavarua
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey brother, it's what's fur dinner.
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yuck yuck yuck ... I mean, thuck thuck thuck!
Tavarua
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Personally, I prefer the Y. I eat there all the time.
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tho ma homies, where Th'all been at? Word muyafuckas.

Olde Ebonicse.
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ye're welcome.
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well there is the answer then- an I thank thee.

'Hear ye, Hear ye' has almost certainly been in continuous use by government. It doesn't seem as if they would have made such a mistake in pronunciation...

So I guess I can Ye and Thee with confidence.

"I pray thee, give me two lagers and ye may keep the change. Thank thee, wench."
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Kallisti, say "thanks" but write "yanks"!
Admin
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

yer so cool. thanks!
Chrysippvs
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

we both had part of the answer apparently

"The "th" sound does not exist in Latin, so ancient Roman occupied (present day) England used the rune "thorn" to represent "th" sounds. With the advent of the printing press the character from the Roman alphabet which closest resembled thorn was the lower case "y"."
Admin
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

this is up for debate!

I was reading a text recently where the "ye" was definately "the" ... more so than you get on pub signs. I think the current thought is that "ye" is actually pronounced "the" and there was an article in some rag debating it, and DAMN if I can remember where I read this. might have been Archeology mag. but not sure...

who knows?!?! I would also love to have the answer ...
Chrysippvs
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Are you thinking of the thorn Þ and the edh ð both of which make a th or near th sounds. These are anglo-saxon (and generally germanic) letters that appear in runes and in old english but were assimilated out with the latin alphabet. Ye on the other hand is the second person plural nominative of "Þu" (you).

The declinsion of the old english personal pronounds are as follows:


first person
nom ic we
gen min user (ure)
dat me us
acc me (mec) us (usic
(inst)

second person

Þu ye
Þin eower
Þe eow
Þe (Þec) eow (eowic)

as you can see we make a lot of errors using archaic english. something like "what are ye doing" is incorrect, although the famous "hear ye, hear ye" is correct. You can (and I do) translate "ye" as y'all just for flavor.

I hope this answers the question, or atleast teaches some old english to ye.

- J
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Question for all you kollidge graduates:

I know that a symbol which looks like Y was often used in days of yore to denote the sound 'th.'

Did people actually go round saying 'ye' or are all those 'ye's actually really 'Thees'?

A good case could be made for the yees as it's pretty close to 'you.'

This has been bugging me for years.

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