|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:44 pm: |
"It seems that even a gentle poke at you results in a vicious response."
I didn't intend to be vicious; thus the "don't go off on me". If I wanted to be vicious, I wouldn't have cared about the result.
I didn't even take your remark as a poke at me; rather I thought you cast Justin and me as "dull" only to highlight Don's "color". i.e., Don provides a fireworks show that attracts customers, while Justin and I don't. The issue is, does Kallisti WANT that sort of customer?
You have my complete sympathy on the issues with which you dealt, and I would remind you that I encouraged you more than once to write to me privately if you wanted to talk about them. I seldom make such offers to anybody, and never for shits and giggles. Also, I had every intention of driving to Vegas from Idaho for that gathering, but I would have been sorely vexed to arrive and find nothing to do but wander among the slots with my d*** in my hand, because the only attraction Vegas EVER held for me, was YOU, old sport.
And a couple of other people also immediately saw the accuracy of the analogy I made; they have told me so. They were disappointed that the Vegas thing didn't come off.
Have you seen the Seinfeld episode where George's father celebrates "Festivus"? The old man makes use of the occasion to tell everybody what he thinks is wrong with them. I didn't mean to do that, but if you look at how you set yourself up with that "dull" post, it was almost impossible to ignore.
Do I really need to insert a smiley face here?
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:37 pm: |
I think yoga has gone way beyond being a fad.
like so many things that arose from '60s culture,
yoga, along with health foods, concerns for the environment, spiritual exploration etc, have become a part of the American experience. Here in Vegas, capitol of strip mall anti-culture, there are yoga and massage centers and a huge natural foods market. Yoga has become as much a part of modern life as the Big Mac.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:31 pm: |
I don't think...I am just so very bored with things like sex, drugs, music, postmodernism, and amalgamatory (or anti) religious banter, so prevalent at my college, and any pseudo-intellectual scene.
Prudish...I don't think. Actually I submitted a poem recently to the school literary journal about a female-homosexual rape and murder, as God's relationship with Israel (Blumenthal's Abusive God, theology which I like to use, but not buy into totally).
It was turned down by feminist elements that saw it as demeaning, I will spit in their face just like I would those money grubbing bastards at the synagogue that think my views on religion are heretical.
It has all gotten vulgar (common), and things need to radically reinvented. I am not a prude, I just find it old and worn out, a few generations ago felt that what as before them was old.
This isn't the 60's, God isn't Dead, and Yoga is just another fad, it is time for people to move on....
Not evaluation, but transevalutation
Am I a prude, no...Am I bored with the common taboos (or the worthless urge to violate any taboo for the hell of it), very.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:20 pm: |
yes, I would agree that I like to be a bug up the status quo's butt.
you do have a bit of a prudish streak, no?
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:11 pm: |
"uptight young man"
You really think so? I get accused of a lot of things...but not this one yet.
Marc, I think you and I are similar in one way, we are both antinomian, but I wonder your reasons for being as such...
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 11:41 am: |
I was very clear in communicating that I wasn't going to be able to provide much energy to the Vegas gathering. The idea of a party so soon after September 11 did not appeal to me. In addition I was struggling with depression, as you know. I am a New Yorker and the destruction of the World Trade Center shattered me. I shared my struggle with you. Thanks for throwing it back in my face.
It seems that even a gentle poke at you results in a vicious response.
you are a very intelligent and uptight young man.
I'm glad you're both here.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 8:35 am: |
"why? because artemis and Justin are boring.
they smell of mothballs and academia. they are earnest and lifeless. dullsville."
Then why did you say you missed me, and ask me to come back, and long for the "old days" when I was supposedly a leading light of this place?
Those comments were at least part of my motivation for returning (albeit a small part). And I knew damned well Don was out there with a scoped .222, waiting for me to pop my head of my hole like a groundhog.
Sort of like encouraging everybody to a party in Las Vegas, not showing up yourself, and then blaming those who show up for lack of coordination.
Now don't go off on me, but I find the parallel too true to ignore.
I guess the moral is have a care whom you invite. They just might show up.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 7:22 am: |
"Bach, Shakespeare, Miguel de Cervantes, Virgil, Plato, Botticelli...I guess these guys were so busy creating their immortal opera that they forgot to be "romantic" and self destructive... "
Perhaps, or perhaps they had something about them, probably talent. Not that marc's list of people didn't have talent, they just ended up crying themsevles into oblivion. Atleast rimbaud woke up and did something interesting (you know, that period called the rest of his life) as opposed to the likes of poe etc who are just pathetic in the end....
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 7:15 am: |
Funny Marc, when I watch The Osbournes, I think of you ... admittedly you are less shell-shocked. heh.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 7:03 am: |
they smell of mothballs and academia.
Hey, I kinda smell that way, too!
This whole situation reminds me very much of a situation I dealt with at the club a few months back. I had to bounce a guy I knew--not exactly a close friend, more of a resident asshole, but I knew him. Y'see, there was this bunch of South American diplomat-brats who had shown up a few weeks in a row, and on this occasion they had decided it would be fun to shove people around on the dancefloor, and not in a friendly way. So my friend decided to do something about it. The problem was, what he decided to do was to grab one of the guys and push him. By the time I got there, he had four guys pounding on him.
Now, his intentions were good; he wanted to keep these guys fom disrupting everybody's good time. But his methods were not acceptable. He did NOT have the authority to confront these guys physically--that was my job--and even if he had, he chose to escalate the confrontation rather than trying to resolve it. He didn't deseve to get quadruple-teamed, but he did start the fight.
In the end, by the way, I ended up having to kick him back IN, to keep him from getting his ass kicked by the same people once he got outside.
As fond as I am of Don, there are fundemental flaws to his rhetorical style. It leaves him vulnerable to verbal jiu-jutsu, and allows him little room to back down. If he fails to prove his point quickly, he has little option but to become more and more abusive, until he ends up undermining his own position.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 7:02 am: |
Bach, Shakespeare, Miguel de Cervantes, Virgil, Plato, Botticelli...I guess these guys were so busy creating their immortal opera that they forgot to be "romantic" and self destructive...
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 5:25 am: |
Are you still crying?
"they smell of mothballs and academia."
blah, blah, blah, keep your dead and dying idols, most of them died off for good reason, the lot of them were complainers and filled modernity with their confessional non-sense.
Wasn't it just a few months ago that you were advocating that the making mental illness, or "madness," out to be romantic was a fallacy?
rock and roll forever, whatever that tripe means
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 4:29 am: |
"you're free to be yourself, free to post whatever you want"
I always did.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 3:41 am: |
312 posts in two days.
I think that says it all. Don is good boxoffice.
and what about the poor victims, artemis and justin? no one gives a shit.
why? because artemis and Justin are boring.
they smell of mothballs and academia. they are earnest and lifeless. dullsville.
Don delivered the ratings babe. He was your Osbornes, your Survivor, your Weakest Link.
Everybody Loves Jade Man.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 3:05 am: |
the bully is gone. you're free to be yourself, free to post whatever you want. go for it. how about some more happy face graffiti?
thank god Don is gone. now timmy can let his freak flag fly. rock on timk!
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 2:51 am: |
"I do believe that timk and ordinaire wanted Don out and were deliberate in their attempts to hangue him past the point of no return."
Firstly Marc, the only reason I ever had any quarrels with Don was because he didnt like the fact that I asked questions and wouldnt blindly tow the line. If I was really that Anti Jade in public, surely I would have had problems with Ted too, as far as I know, I havent ever offended Ted with my questions.
I have said on many occasions that I dissagree with banning anyone, when Don was banned the first time around I said that I disagreed with it. I dissagree with the deleting of posts as well. How the fuck you can say I tried to deliberately force Don out I dont know. He started it, he has tried to upset, intimidate and bully me and others on many occasions, it didnt upset me, I have argued back. Just so you know, Don started it, like he probably did with everyone else who has quarrel with him.
Let me remind you Marc, I hardly posted a thing during the Don-Ordinaire argument. And most of what you consider Don baiting was mne not willing to sit thaere and have Don spout shit, or attempt his bullying and get away with it, sure sometimes I started it, and let it get personal, but I just got fed up with him.
Don was and is a bully. Defending a bully for being funny, witty or intelligent is pathetic.
|Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 12:29 am: |
Jeez, had the flu a couple of days and look what I come back to!
I've read the thread and was content to simply keep silent, but then I started to feel that this topic was really important to the forum; therefore, as a forum member, I should do my civil duty and vote (i.e. express my opinion).
It seems like the issue Kallisti struggled with was basically a classic Supreme Court issue: Right to Privacy vs. Freedom of Speech. Chief Justice Kallisti ruled that, on this forum, an individual's right to privacy trumps another person's right to free speech. Personally, I believe that calling this "censorship" would require a redefinition of the term. I agree with the privacy rule; using a nom de plume doesn't make you a coward any more than using your real name makes you a hero.
I find the idea of Kallisti shutting down the entire forum similar to Don's occasional desire to throw Jade into the ocean - DON'T DO IT!
How long would all those people last here? Should be the same for any self-respecting bar - fuck how famous, rich, intelligent or talented a person is, if they break the house rules they get the boot; maybe just for the night, maybe forever, but it's up to the bar owner. I'd only fault the owner if the rules weren't clear or if they were subjectively enforced.
I don't have the facts so I have no opinion on what recently happened with Don; like most of you, I'm torn - but I will miss his presence.
|Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 11:04 pm: |
Yes, yes! Everyone come to NYC in June for the gathering!!!!
|Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 10:55 pm: |
Ain't dat the truth.
I think most folks eventually find a happy medium, if you stick in one place long enough, like we do here.
It *is* amazing, if you think about, the stong bonds and longevity people have developed on this forum, despite all that.
I encourage folks to meet your comrades. It is a revelation.
|Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 10:29 pm: |
its an important point. one that is at the heart of all these internet flame wars, threats etc.
people say things on the internet they would never say to your face. some people are clearly using the internet as a means to vent their rage and share their self-loathing. but, when it comes down to it, it is only words.
anyway, your hair is already on fire.
|Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 10:23 pm: |
how would verlaine have set your hair on fire over the internet?
you are so CUTE!
|Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 9:56 pm: |
"I do. punk."
"In a forum devoted to absinthe, shouldn't we expect some old-fashioned madness?"
What about Verlaine, the debauched crybaby...
nevermind, we already have him..
just busting your chops marc, this forum would be a shame without you..
|Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 9:49 pm: |
how would verlaine have set your hair on fire over the internet?
|Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 9:24 pm: |
Marc, I think we do and I think we can stand a bit of madness. But not meanness. You confuse the two.
If Verlaine had set my hair on fire he wouldn't have had long to regret it.
|Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 8:55 pm: |
sometimes the most uncivilized, repugnant and vulgar people are also the most artistic, interesting and intelligent people. Lenny Bruce (junkie), Van Gogh (nutjob), Pasolini (pedophile), Hemingway (misogynistic suicidal drunk),Poe(suicidal drunk), Leni Riefenstahl (Nazi propagandist), Bukowski (mean drunk),
Morrison (another mean drunk), Hunter Thompson (coke-crazed gun toting madman), Rimbaud (foul-mouthed punk poet)...how long would these rabblerousers and sociopaths last in this forum? Have we become overly p.c. and too thin-skinned?
In a forum devoted to absinthe, shouldn't we expect some old-fashioned madness?