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Archive through April 17, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru June 2002 » Archive Thru April 2002 » Er....is there something you want to tell us, Absinthedrinker? » Archive through April 17, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Timk
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Well, sure. Say you're the maker of Edouard Pernod. It's somewhat cheaper than Pernod et Fils, and that's why the cafés buy it from you. But most café patrons don't go out of their way to ask specifically for an EDOUARD Pernod."

I seriously doubt Edouard Pernod was either an inferiour or much cheaper product when compared to Pernod Fils, they shared common roots for one, and from what I can gather Edouard Pernod was widely regarded as an excellent quality absinthe. Anyone care to correct me.
Larsbogart
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 8:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"I'm reminded of that movie about Verlaine and Rimbaud (Full eclipse?)"
Total Eclipse
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

As opposed to Odl and Mddile Enlgish.
_Blackjack
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:42 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Modern US Enlgish is about as casual about turning nouns into verbs as German is about cramming nouns together.
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Think that absinthe collecting is an expensive habit? Try this on for size:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1092841388

Though as Artemis has pointed out, bottle collecting is worse.
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"eBayed". What is this creature, a new verb?
Chrysippvs
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

TimK,

"Was not that the one you ebayed Justin?"

Verily.
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hill's!
Chrysippvs
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:19 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

and you see what they got...


belle epoque hills


- J
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"You can bet most drinkers in the 19th century just asked for an absinthe without specifying the brand."

I'm reminded of that movie about Verlaine and Rimbaud (Full eclipse?)

Verlaine looks at the waiter and orders: "Absinthe. Deux"
Artemis
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 3:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There's no mystery here.

The Pernod pamphlet on Frenchman Phil's website says:

C'est un fait connu de chacun que le produit fabriqué dans l'usine de MM. Veil Picard n'est pas désigné dans le public sous le nom 'absinthe. Pour le distinguer des pro-duits similaires, les amateurs l'ont appelé du nom de son fabricant et, partout aujourd'hui, à l'heure de l'apéritif, c'est un Pernod que l'on demande.

It is a fact known to everyone that the product made in the factory of Mr. Veil Picard is not called in public by the name absinthe. To distinguish it from similar products, its fans call it by the name of its manufacturer and, everywhere today, at the aperitif hour, it is a Pernod for which they ask.

When I first went to Georgia, I was amused when I entered a fried chicken joint and asked for a coke. They wanted to know "what kind". What do you mean, what kind? How many kinds are there?
Well, we got orange, root beer, etc. "Coke" had become a generic term for every sort of pop or soft drink. It's not quite the same thing, because in France, people probably expected to get a Pernod when they asked for a Pernod, but anyway ...
Absinthedrinker
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 3:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I imagine that it was very similar to the situation now where the majority of people walk into a bar and ask for a whisky, or a pint of bitter or a gin and tonic or whatever. Each bar will have a house pour which the supplier will have paid good money (usually in stock discounts) to have placed to give to those who ask for generic beverages. Marketeers try to persuade people to order by brand but few do. You can bet most drinkers in the 19th century just asked for an absinthe without specifying the brand. Even if they did, quite respectable producers made up absinthe to different quality levels and strengths so you would have to be very specific in what you asked for.
Aion
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Makes sense, really.
But wouldn´t this imply these two products
were very similar tasting?
What I´ve heard they were quite different
in style.
But as Dr. O said, marketing is (and was)
everything.
A.
Chevalier
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, sure. Say you're the maker of Edouard Pernod. It's somewhat cheaper than Pernod et Fils, and that's why the cafés buy it from you. But most café patrons don't go out of their way to ask specifically for an EDOUARD Pernod. You're a smaller company than Pernod & Fils, and there's less awareness of your brand. So, what do you do?

Turns out that when most café patrons ask for a Pernod & Fils, they don't bother to call out the entire name. Instead, they say, "Un Pernod, s'il vous-plait." Voila! Here's your chance to take advantage of people who enter cafés and don't bother to look at the menus. They don't know, then, that Café Chevalier doesn't sell PERNOD et Fils but does sell Edouard PERNOD. The absinthe arrives in an unlabelled topette or already poured in a glass, Monsieur Client drinks it and is happy. And YOU are very happy indeed.

It makes good marketing sense to nickname your product "Un Pernod". In fact, the real Edouard Pernod won the legal right to do so.
Petermarc
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

unepernod

this seemed to have started during the last years before the ban...
Petermarc
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

.

Timk
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 6:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Was not that the one you ebayed Justin?
Nascentvirion
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 6:19 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Where do you find vintage ??
Chrysippvs
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 5:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I remember that bottle oxygenee...

- J
Petermarc
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 3:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

this phrase is often used even today, on traditional and/or high-quality products(that are sweetened)...i guess as opposed to mixing it with other sweeteners or just giving sugar the impression of being healthful in a pure state...there were many hygene problems with food at the turn of the century, i saw a milk bottle recently that was 'guaranteed against tuberculosis'...of course, with mad cow/sheep/etc.,etc., it's déjà-vu all over again...
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 2:51 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

'guaranteed pure sugar'

Why would they remark this? Were liqueurs at the time sweetened with something of lesser quality?

I mean, how much cheaper than sugar can you get?
Petermarc
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 2:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

'guaranteed pure sugar'
Absinthedrinker
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2002 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nice pic Oxy, what is the reference at the bottom to sugar, I can't make it out on my lap top screen.
Oxygenee
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Un Emile", circa 1930.

Un Emile
Oxygenee
Posted on Monday, April 15, 2002 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The use of names like "Un Emile" obviously derives as Petermarc has said, from an affectionate nickname for the product, used as a shortcut when ordering. But there is a twist: this form was almost never used on marketing or publicity naterial during the absinthe period itself. Prior to 1914, the word "Absinthe" almost always featured prominently, together with the full name of the brand. After absinthe was banned, some producers went out of business or amalgamated - but after 1920 many switched to making Liqueur d'Anis (and later of course also to Pastis), which effectively became the closest legal product to absinthe.
Anis had of course nothing like the following that absinthe had had. So rather than emphasising the word "Anis", as they had previously with "Absinthe", many manufacturers simply called the product by its nickname: Un Emile, Un Pernod, Un Edouard, Un Junod, Un Richard, Un Nature - thus emphasising the brand itself, and hopefully retaining the customer loyalty built up in previous years, while de-emphasising the fact that it was now in fact an entirely different product.

If you find an old poster, carafe, pyrogene or fountain, and it has the brand name in this form, but no other wording, it was almost certainly for anis, not absinthe, and dates from the post absinthe period.

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