|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 5:23 pm: |
But when someone comes to your home and kills the people you love, how do you respond? If you have an answer that doesn't involve war, I'd love to hear it.
It entirely depends on the situation. If war won't stop them from attacking you, what good is served by killing more people? If you were attacked because you were doing something you didn't need to be doing, even if it wasn't wrong, you have to ask if it is worth the risk.
If you decide to go for a stroll in a bad neighborhood, you don't deserve to get mugged, but it might be a lot easier just to stay out of the neighborhood than it would be to track down and kill every potential mugger.
Our involvement in the Middle East was as questionable on Sept. 10th as it was on the 12th. We are accomplishing little good there, and we are pissing off an awful lot of really mean motherfuckers. Is it really worth the risks we incur? You may see this as "giving in" to the terrorists, but it isn't "giving in" if we lose more by fighting than we would by pulling out.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 4:30 pm: |
there's alot of loud mouths around here who make big noises but can't really back up what they say with any kind of intelligent argument.
aroquentin is clearly a sociopath and shouldn't be taken seriously. Of course, if he were to say what he said below to artemis' face, the consequences would be serious.
artemis has alot of friends in this forum. I suggest you back off or be prepared to take some serious heat. Thats a word of caution, motherfucker.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 4:25 pm: |
It's unfortunate that there's such an incestuous relationship between the government and the energy/automotive industries - a relationship resulting in oil prices being considered a "vital U.S. interest". We've become so technologically advanced in almost every area except energy, where we're still living in the late 1800's/early 1900's.
Calls for conservation are nothing more than a sound-bites and alternative energy will never see the light of day. We're just a very large, oil dependent country whose government is still sucking the dick of the automotive/energy industry. And to add insult to injury, we send our sons and daughters to die for some soccer-mom's right to fill up her fucking Eddie Bauer SUV for $1.59/gallon!!!
On 9/11, all four of those planes should have been sent to Washington D.C. - that would have made Osama Bin Laden one of the county's greatest patriots.
Happy Memorial Day to the vets out there, thank you for the service. I love our soldiers but hate the coward politicians.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 4:12 pm: |
I fail to follow your reasoning about how you can't equate September 11 to Memorial day.
Memorial day is a sacred day to remember those people who fought and died for our country. You could even extend that to the people who died on September 11. They were living the American dream, going about their lives in persuit of their own happiness. Memorial Day is a time to think of the sacrifices of the young soldiers out away from their families and defending our homes. There is nothing about 9-11 that doesn't have something to do with Memorial day.
I agree that we are all human before American. I am a bit confused about how you would deal with the human scum who would murder so many thousands. Would you try to reason with them? To do so would be to say that what they did in September was somehow reasonable and justified. Do you believe that? Do you believe that there could be any provocation that would justify this horrible and cowardly act?
How do you deal with murders who kill without provocation? Maybe you could pay them off. Maybe you could try being extra nice to them. Here's an idea, we could nuke Israel! Maybe start another Holocaust, that out to molify them, for a while.
Here's the thing. I don't like war and killing. It is horrible and evil. But when someone comes to your home and kills the people you love, how do you respond? If you have an answer that doesn't involve war, I'd love to hear it. If all you have are strange eutopian dreams then by all means, take another hit from the hash pipe and go ahead and dream them, but don't criticize the fine young men who are willing to fight and die for you.
As to what I have done? Well I haven't done much asside from being an American. You know we can't all be soldiers. Someone has to pay the expenses. I do that.
I ask you to read back a little through the messages. I'm not upset about people voicing their opinions about foreign policy. You can even hate George Bush if you want. But when people start calling our young soldiers murdering rapists and "Cream of the Crap", well that's a little over the top. The only thing that upsets me more than the turdbiting assmonkey who made the comment, is the fact that no one else called him on it. It's sad, very sad.
This a sacred day to remember and be thankfull. All I ask is that people have a little respect.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 4:05 pm: |
You are basing your argument on a false dichotamy. Contrary to what the president said, the only choices are not "with us" or "with the terrorists". It is perfectly possible to be critical of errors in US policy without justifying or defending the crimes committed against us. In fact, it is pretty easy, if one takes the position that killing innocent people should be avoided if at all possible. Of course we did not deserve to be attacked like that; NOBODY deserves to be attacked like that.
I don't spit on soldiers. But I think, in a lot of cases, they are being duped, they are being told that they are fighting to protect Freedom(tm) and Democracy(tm), when very often, in the past 50 years, they have been dying and killing for politics and money.
Sept. 11 did change something. For the first time since WWII, we are fighting a war against someone who attacked us first. We are, in fact, acting out of self-defense. This does not belie the fact, however, that in the past 50 years, we have only made war for other reasons.
I cannot in good conscience tell another person that he cannot fight in order to defend himself, but I believe that self-defense in not an end in itself, but must be undertaken with the purpose of preventing further harm to oneself. Just because we are JUSTIFIED in striking back, it does not mean that striking back is necessarily the best way to insure one's future safety. If striking back only INCREASES the danger of future attacks (which seems to be the pattern in Israel, or Columbia...), then use of force is not the right path. Only time will tell if we have chosen correctly in this case.
I have not asked our military to kill or die on my behalf. I suspect there are more effective ways of preserving our safety and freedom in this situation, and ones which will be less costly in both lives and psyches. I do not want anyone to die or, more importantly, to become a killer, unless the dying and the killing will ACCOMPLISH something. I have too much respect for our soldiers to let them be thrown away.
Remember, it is not a flag, but the freedom to criticize the government, that is what we are supposed to be fighting for.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 3:34 pm: |
Damn right, Marc. I saw the 2nd plane hit the tower from the street, so I know first hand what mass murder looks like. And I know that Mogan_David is a stupid monkey to even equate September 11th with memorial day. All those responsible for 9/11 obviously deserve to die, but unfortunately 9/11 has become an excuse for gun loving rednecks to get excited about killing people and waving flags and blind allegiance to our stupid ass president, and anyone with any sense knows that no matter how many bombs we drop, the world will be no safer, there will just be bigger piles of dead people. I think protesting war can sometimes be the most patriotic thing an individual can do. Mogan_David can wave his flag all he wants, but it doesn't really mean anything different from rooting for your favourite sports team. We're all human before we're American. Lets not forget that. (although sometimes this forum makes me feel more like a Martian....)
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 3:11 pm: |
Actually alot of Vietnam vets grew their hair long, started smoking dope and protesting the war themselves. I was 18 at the height of the Vietnam war and nobody I knew spat at vets. In fact, alot of us worked closely with them in the anti-war movement.
As far as September 11 goes, I knew people who died in the attacks. I've lived in New York City for 25 years. I know first hand what it feels like to see a place you love shattered, both physically and psychologically. One of my wife's best friends was on the phone with her husband
when the second tower was hit. He was on the 107th floor. He died. She was pregnant with twins.
Go ahead and wave your flag if it makes you feel any better. I notice that you are 37 years old.
Not too old to fight, right? What have you volunteered to do lately? How are you helping to fight terrorism? By waving a flag?
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 2:56 pm: |
Nothing wrong with defending our country, and anybody who criticizes a veteran for fighting for this country is a stupid asshole, but I stand by my statement that Artys quote is the whole reason why there is war in this world. People think its ok to shoot as long as you shoot the right person. Well, if you respected human life more, no one would get shot. I respect those who fought for us and put their lives on the line, but I hate those politicians that started the wars. And I'm not a hippie. I bathe, don't smoke weed, and I hate Reggae.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 2:30 pm: |
Oh my God!
I realize that absinthe is a sort of counter culture interest, but didn't you retarded hippy fucks learn anything from the sixties?
You are the exact same bastards that spit on our returning Vietnam soldiers. Called them baby killers and generally made their lives miserable for the simgle unforgivable sin of defending their country. While you idiot jerkoffs pontificate on the horrors of war, our soldiers fought and died. They endured unimaginable suffering while you hippy freaks shit on the ones that survived.
Did you forget about what happened in September. Did you forget about the three thousand people who were murdered? Or did you find some way to justify the acts of the murderers. If only the Jews weren't so mean. If only the USA wouldn't help Israel. I mean it's all our fault isn't it? Those peple deserved what they got! How dare they go to work, try to feed their children. Have a happy life and hurt no one.
Well I have two words for you, you fucking idiots.
I'll be flying my flag this memorial day, and thanking God that there are still people who value our country and way of life enough to volunteer to fight for it.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 2:21 pm: |
To quote Arty
"Nothing wrong with shooting people as long as the right people get shot."
That mentality right there is the whole problem with the world. Osama tells his people we're the right people to kill, and we tell our people they're the right people to kill. Guess what, everybody dies!
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 1:57 pm: |
Does anything in Texas make sense? I'm surprised they don't mandate you remove the exhaust systems on cars there to "prevent pollution". Texas's idea of protecting the environment is to fill up a lake with concrete so nobody can pour toxic waste into it. Sheesh! I love Texas logic. Carry a big gun with tons of bullets in it so nobody will get shot. Cut education funding to force the schools to get better. Put everyone to death to send them a message that taking someone elses life is bad.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 1:51 pm: |
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 1:46 pm: |
*panting with rage*
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 1:45 pm: |
Haha, the Texas morons were at it again a couple of months ago. The usual speed limit of 70mph was reduced to 55mph to REDUCE POLLUTION. Ok, 1, trucks and SUVs NEVER get pulled over in Texas. 2, trucks and SUVs NEVER go less than 75mph.
So god help you if you're driving that two-door red Civic at 56 miles per hour. You're harming the environment. Better go out and buy that Canyonero. NOW.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 1:31 pm: |
Oil prices, tell me about it. Wolf is right, it's not just France but anywhere in Europe. Your petrol prices are unbelievably fucking cheap. Complaining that US oil prices are a rip-off is crazy. If oil was too expensive you wouldn't be driving around in huge gas-guzzlers. You couldn't afford to.
Anyway Wolf what's wrong with driving small cars? I drive a little 1 litre Ford Fiesta. It's comfortable and it gets me from A to B. It suits me just fine.
I can also drive up and down the country at 90mph with no aggro (no helicopter speed cops over here). What's the point of having a 3 litre engine in the USA when you get busted (I admit I don't know what Canada is like for this) for driving over 50mph?
I reckon that the obsession some people (mainly men) have with big cars is to compensate for their own smallness in the trouser-zone.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 1:21 pm: |
Hey Artemis. Get one of your fellow soldiers to suck your dick as usual. Or I suppose you could just volunteer for duty and rape (before or after killing, depends on your taste) some young girl somewhere, as usual. BTW, how come there always seem to be more friendly fire casualties these days than deaths from enemy fire? And how come we have to pay or pressure foreign commandos to do all the hard stuff? Maybe it's because the US military is the most technologically advanced force in the world with the least experienced, least strategically intelligent and all-around worst soldiers in the world?
Soldiers, ahhh, the cream of the crap in the USA. You get the poorest bastards who have no other choice, the gung-ho loonies and the generally uneducated white trash who don't have the ability to do anything else. Scream at 'em, whip 'em into shape and send them overseas where these babyfaced peasants will cry because people want to kill them. What a great system. Full of honor and nobility. Odd that so many of the rich and powerful somehow avoided service, no? Anyone who would willingly serve as the disposable pawns of the elite is either too stupid to know better or has the worst kind of slave/servant mentality. Willing to die for your country? Too bad most military operations aren't carried out in the interests of your country.
Happy memorial day.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 10:11 am: |
Did I say all veterans are like that? No.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 9:44 am: |
Because *you* don`t have oil interests... Big boys don`t mind paying 1$/L for their limo.
And if you think oil is expensive, you should check the price in France... that explain their ridiculously small cars.
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 9:32 am: |
> Are you saying that we aren't protecting Kuwait
> and their oil interests?
It's not their oil interests we're protecting; it's OUR oil interests, Kuwait be damned.
But mainly I was pointing out that the military is at the service of the nation, which sadly means at the service of the politicians; it doesn't get to pick and choose battles based on what's getting "protected".
And criticizing the Army for pitching video games (which are actually a valuable part of its training) that involve simulations of killing, given the general state of video games today is more than a little hypocritical.
As for the remarks about raping girls and shooting people in the back, as a veteran, and on Memorial Day, I'm saying that all military-hating punks here and anywhere else can suck my dick. Was I clear enough this time?
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 6:51 am: |
Then why does oil keep getting more and more expensive?
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 6:22 am: |
That's exactly to secure the price that the US is protecting them...
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 5:32 am: |
Hmm. Are you saying that we aren't protecting Kuwait and their oil interests? I have a friend who was part of the group training their "army". He said he was dealing with Sgt's who were literraly wearing rolex watches! Damn! Are they recruiting?
He also said it was a fucking joke. The only reason they havn't been invaded again is because of our army. For all of that, we should get our oil from them at half price!
|Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 3:29 am: |
> You can 'defend freedom(tm) by shooting people,
Nothing wrong with shooting people as long as the right people get shot.
> By 'adusting his personality' you can make him
> rise in the ranks!
If you don't think personality adjusment is requisite to rising through the ranks in the army or any other large organization, you're not in touch with reality. Can you say "Dale Carnegie"?
> "Gosh, Seargent, it's just that I don't
> remember no latrine cleaning details in the
> Playstation version."
Now that's funny. I can see Gomer saying it to Sergeant Carter.
> Perhaps you can really go protect the rich
> kuwaitis oil monopoly from the rest of the
There's so much wrong with that I don't know where to begin, but perhaps you'd like a rogue army that does as it pleases rather than doing what it's told?
|Posted on Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 9:59 am: |
Does it give you the "rape a 15 year old Japanese girl" mode? Or how about the "shoot the surrendering camel fuckers in the back" mode? Maybe those are cheat codes you can enter. They do have a "Defend Freedom" mode, which I'm excited to see what that is. Perhaps you can really go protect the rich kuwaitis oil monopoly from the rest of the world!!! How exciting!
|Posted on Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 8:56 pm: |
Fuckedaroonie. Yep. Time to start stashing that ammo and canned food, cause if this isn't a sign of the End Times, I don't know my Seals from my Plagues.
The United States Army has made two video games! And they're free!
You can 'defend freedom(tm) by shooting people, or, you can take a soldier through a career ala Sims. By 'adusting his personality' you can make him rise in the ranks!
I'm not fucking kidding!
This one won't rot your brain- it'll just wash it nice and clean, and then spraypaint it olive drab.
"Gosh, Seargent, it's just that I don't remember no latrine cleaning details in the Playstation version."
"Shit! They got me! Reset! Reset! Gurgle...."