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Archive through May 29, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru June 2002 » Archive Thru May 2002 » OK, we're fucked. » Archive through May 29, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Robertsmith
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You don't want to suck his dick aroquentin, it tastes like shit....
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Aroquentin- people who are willing to be shot at and blown up and things are indeed providing service.

Whether the regime is corrupt does NOT reflect on the fact that there are people who are risking and losing thier lives right now because they believe they are helping you.

There may be jarheads and morons amongst the ranks. There are jarheads and morons in college too. Both will spew particular memes if you push the right button.

But these people are DYING for you and I right now- at least, they believe they are. And whatever they believe, dead is dead, yes?

Leave them out of it.
Aroquentin
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Artemis so eloquently lectured:

"1. The intelligence level of U.S. military recruits can hardly be blamed on the military.

2. Everybody who enters the military very quickly gets smarter than before he went in, in more ways than one, and becomes a better person, in the most profound and meaningful way, unless his head is totally up his ass, in which case he would have been a loser in the military or out.

3. The dumbest cracker in the infantry is a better man, and better informed about his options and potential, and far less deceived, than a dipshit who doesn't begin to grasp the concept of SERVICE criticizing that cracker from the safety of an Internet connection."


Well, I agree with number 1, but I don't agree the military is helping the situation.

As to 2 and 3. WOW! Here I was thinking that the US military was just a brainwashing meatgrinder churning out propaganda-spewing simpletons who would blindly and violently defend the process that turned them into such zombies. Boy have you proved me wrong!

Keep serving your masters Artemis, they don't value you but they find you necessary. Oh, you meant *SERVICE* to one's country I assume? Well by your own admission the military is directed by a largely corrupt and immoral political machine, you don't really imagine they serve "our country" do you? So what service are you referring to? Maybe you meant violent homo-erotic service between bunk-mates in the barracks?

Ah poor Artemis, struggling against his restricted language code and binary idealism to try to make an intellectual point. Hey Art, why not make a few physical threats now? Oh I'm sorry, I forgot you prefer your adversaries to suck your dick.

Roq
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lord Hobgoblin went on to write:

"When your elected government is faced with a military coup funded by the most powerful nation on Earth you'll ask for help wherever you can get it." In other words, Cuba.


Well, when President Allende was faced with a nationwide strike by the truckers who once supported him, he called in the Chilean ARMY to break it. When Allende was faced with an attempted army coup d'etat in the middle of 1973 -- several months before the successful coup of September 11 (strange coincidence, that date) -- he asked General Augusto Pinochet to defeat it, which the then-constitutionalist Pinochet DID. In gratitude, Allende soon promoted Pinochet to chief of the Chilean Army. Cowering behind the armed forces after dancing a very public jig with Castro was Allende's style. Not surprisingly, it led to disaster.
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lord Hobgoblin wrote:

"... what the people of Chile want ... "

You should have written, "what the people of Chile DIDN'T want".

Salvador Allende was elected by a minority -- that's right, a minority -- of Chilean voters: 36.3% in a three-way race. In other words, 63.7% -- a clear majority -- of all voting Chileans voted AGAINST Allende. The country’s constitution stipulated that, should none of the candidates obtain a majority, a full session of Chile’s congress would elect the president from among the two highest pluralities. Congress chose Salvador Allende, even though it had every constitutional right to select the 2nd place candidate, a centrist Christian Democrat. What Kissinger meant by “irresponsibility” was the Chilean congress’s ill-conceived (if not suicidal) selection of Allende.

In the minds of half of today’s Chileans, their nation's form of democracy, as it stood in 1970, failed to save the country from disaster. Multi-party politics failed to provide a president won by a majority of voting citizens. Congress failed to choose the more prudent of the two leading presidential candidates.
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

And all this time I've been sinning for free! Damn.

Oh, I don't deny the get-em-in-the-door utility of the video game.

I'm just worried these guys will end up too scared of real life violence to do their jobs, or so numb to it they go over the top and cry havoc (in the old sense of the word) too often.
Pikkle
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

should make t-shirts to the effect with a big green winking fairy on the front...
Wolfgang
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

In Montreal there's a place on Papineau st. with a big sign in french saying "the salary of your sins is Hell". Makes me laugh every time I pass by.
Pikkle
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Jesus be risen?"
Pikkle
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Jesus are risen?"
Pikkle
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Jesus am risen?"
Artemis
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I've not seen that one, but I've seen plenty of "Jesus Saves". It's only a matter of time until somebody adds "But Moses Spends", or "at the Commerce Bank of Bug Tussle".
Nascentvirion
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 6:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Drive down any road in the Southeast and you see billboards that say "Jesus is Risen". I dont want to be a bother but thats gramatically wrong isnt it? Damn Puritans never bothered to listen in English class. Oh well just wondering if anyone else caught that ?
Artemis
Posted on Wednesday, May 29, 2002 - 3:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Good answer, Rabbit.

BUT, if you were recruiting (for anything) from a pool of people who are known to fancy video games, might you make video games part of your pitch? It's a no-brainer.

Contrary to the rantings of the clueless (and I wasn't talking about you):

1. The intelligence level of U.S. military recruits can hardly be blamed on the military.

2. Everybody who enters the military very quickly gets smarter than before he went in, in more ways than one, and becomes a better person, in the most profound and meaningful way, unless his head is totally up his ass, in which case he would have been a loser in the military or out.

3. The dumbest cracker in the infantry is a better man, and better informed about his options and potential, and far less deceived, than a dipshit who doesn't begin to grasp the concept of SERVICE criticizing that cracker from the safety of an Internet connection.
Robertsmith
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

:)
Robertsmith
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

If you're ever on the west coast, drive Rt 10 to Palm Springs. Every 5 miles theres a billboard that says "In God We Trust, United We Stand." I get so angry when I see that shit and know that my atheist tax dollars went to pay for some sign that says "God" on it, and furthermore that stinkin sign accomplishes absolutely nothing. Why is it there? I don't know. Actually "In God We Trust" wasn't even added to our money until the 1950's when everyone was all scared of the pinko commies. Or maybe it was the late 40's, can't remember due to the big hole in my brain now filled with absinthe. Anyway, it used to not be on the money, and the pledge of allegiance used to say "One Nation, Indivisible", not "One Nation, Under God, Indivisible". I personally think "One Nation, Indivisible" sounds much more indivisible, than the phrase "One Nation, Under God, Indivisible" in which ironically the words "Nation" and "Indivisible" are DIVIDED by "God"!!! Sometimes the United States of Texas makes me very sad. I love the idea of freedom of religion, but the only way you can have real freedom of religion is to have freedom from government involvement in religion. Why do you think the goddamn puritans came here in the first place? They wanted to practice their own backwards dumbass opressive religion without being persecuted by the Anglicans and Catholics, and they also didn't want to pay taxes, and they also wanted to carry guns. I hate to break it to you but this country has been republican since day 1. I'm proud to be an american though, because I have the right to tell all the republican gun toting god spewing environment destroying war mongering money grubbing abortion protesting lying pigfuckers to go to hell, and that's my constitutional right. Long live America.

This sermon was brought to you by Francois Guy and the letters F and U and the number 6.
Destiny
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

>> Now if Don was here I'd be waiting for a fierce attack.

He's putting aside a "special" bottle of Jade just for you.
Nascentvirion
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Robert Smith I agree with you. Like I said where were the bumper stickers, twin tower dildos, bandannas, wrist watches etc... Before 9/11 ? They were nowhere to be found. Except maybe in your local flag store or sex shop if your looking for dildos. All of the post 9/11 marketing by major retail really got on my nerves. The whole "God Bless America" thing became really annoying as well. Why does it have to be God Bless ?? Why cant it be "Hail America" or something neutral, less puritanical ?
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

No-one is innocent Chevalier but some parties are more guilty than others. Castro didn't fund the overthrow of an elected government in Chile but the USA did. Sod what the people of Chile want, make them have a military dictatorship instead.

But then of course Chile did not have the right to elect a government that was not approved of by the USA. To quote Henry Kissinger prior to the CIA backed overthrow of the popularly elected government of Allende.

"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people."

So much for defence of a nation's right to self-determination and democracy.

As for Allende asking Cuba for backing, well can you blame him? When your elected government is faced with a military coup funded by the most powerful nation on Earth you'll ask for help wherever you can get it.

Hobgoblin
Now if Don was here I'd be waiting for a fierce attack. Those were the days.
Robertsmith
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Gee, I wouldn't remember 9/11 if I didn't have a T-Shirt and bumpersticker and american flag pin and a bandana and matching twin towers dildos...
Seeing the 2nd plane hit from the street and about 500 people instantly die in the blink of an eye wasn't enough for me to remember, I need to pay wal-mart for a RIP WTC shirt if I'm gonna remember any of that shit. You know, to be quite honest, I'd like to forget it as opposed to continuing to remember it. It's pretty easy to point a finger at it and say that's the most fucked up shit that's ever happened that close to me, and I would honestly now like to erase my memory of it and try and live the best life I can that isn't scarred by repeatedly returning memories of horror. So take off your damn T-Shirts and bumperstickers. Unless the dough from the sales is going directly to the WTC victims families, I'd like wal-mart to clear their entire inventory right now, otherwise they're hugely profiting off one of the worst atrocity in American history and that makes them no better than our enemies. I remember right after 9/11 there were wholesalers, most of whom were illegal immigrants, who were selling flags and pictures of the burning buildings on the streets and making a killing. If you asked any one of these assholes who our first president was (I asked them), they couldn't answer. I have nothing against immigrants, and I welcome them with open arms, but our country is a culture which places profit above all other things, including respect for human life, and the mass marketing push which is profiting off a terrorist act is just plain evil and should be outlawed. But it won't be. So drink and be merry, and don't buy any of those T-shirts.
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Jeeze! It's like dropping a grenade (I go away for a weekend...)

My main point in 'we're fucked' was that our military is recruiting badly. They are bringing in people based on what is essentially a deception.

There is a difference between a simulation and a video game, in spirit.

This, this makes it seem like the army will be kewl, like half life man, but with real guns dood!

Like the Dungeons and Dragons themed Marines ads, these are bullshit meant to prey on ignorant and unwary youth.

And I guess what pisses me off is the fact that they WILL be dupes, defending Freedom(tm.)

All quiet on the western front? Do they still show that in schools?

Or do they show some CGI faceless 'opposing forces' as the game calls them, with nary a severed limb or burning corpse in sight?

Eh? Do the mines merely cause the unwary farmers to fade out of existence, having been killed?

Do your buddies just fucking put in another quarter?

My problem with this comes down to the fact that getting people into the army based on such sanitized crap is setting them up for a fall.

Because there is blood and death and people not coming home.

Because looking at war as a video game is a method of disaccociating the fact that the target was destroyed from the fact that the target didn't need to shave that morning because the target was 14.

And killing without a true understanding of what that means is a bad, bad thing. Do you want a large number of men with guns who don't really know what it means living in your country?

Look at the late, great Empire of Japan and the fun that a military who didn't really care about the killing part one way or another can bring.
Chevalier
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

We didn't overthrow the UP ("Unidad Popular", the left-wing coalition ostensibly led by President Salvador Allende). Chile's armed forces, especially the Chilean Navy, can take credit for that. Did the U.S. place some nasty roadblocks on Chile's economy between 1970 and 1973? Absolutely. Did the U.S. fund Allende's opponents, especially the center-right Christian Democrats? You bet. And yes, some of that funding went to the ultra right-wing terrorist group, "Patria y Libertad". Did Cuba send arms and provide training for Chile's Marxist/Socialist factions, including the terrorist group "MIR"? Right again. Did Allende invite Cuba to do so? Yup. (Ironically, Allende blew his own head off with a Kalashnikov rifle given to him personally by -- Fidel Castro).

No one is innocent in this story, Blackjack. And incidentally, the same CIA that aided in the 1973 coup d'etat also aided PRO-democracy forces in 1989, when General Pinochet's regime was peacefully rejected by popular referendum.

And Destiny, you are right about seeking alternate energy sources. (Chile's capital city, Santiago, has the second highest smog levels in the Western Hemisphere. Only Mexico City is more polluted.) The problem is that poor countries -- which the West likes to label as "developing" -- don't have the resources to switch from oil to something cleaner.
Destiny
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh my god... Johnny Cash is banging at my door!!!
Wolfgang
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Destiny, whatch out, the men in black will catch you if you don't stop that kind of rambling and they will bring you to the lobotomist ;)

Good american citizens should not be aware of such things...
Destiny
Posted on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

>> The beneficiaries will be tucked away safely in their mansions and penthouses.

And their ranches.

Chevalier, I understand your example of Chile's relationship to global oil prices but that exactly illustrates my point. It's complete foolishness for a country to be so completely dependent on a foreign product; that dependency actually creates a complete breech in the security of a nation.

The non oil-producing countries of the world need to make it a priority to once and for all develop a genuine alternative to oil. They say that heroin funds terrorism, what about OIL? If the oil market dried up, where would these guys get their funding from - selling brass lamps to tourists?

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