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Archive through June 03, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru June 2002 » Archive Thru June 2002 » Void » Archive through June 03, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Mr_Rabid
Posted on Monday, June 3, 2002 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Have you ever tried to have an intelligent debate with a Southern Baptist?"

Yes, and have done so several times.

See, this Hell House action, while I admit it's funny as, um, hell...

These people are trying to save you. Don't give them shit for that. Seriously. They spend their time and resources to try to save your soul because they give a shit about their fellow man.

They put up with endless crap to try and do you what they consider a vital service. Courtesy is the least you owe them.

I don't agree with the beliefs involved- they seem very, very wrongheaded and bad to me. But at least the road to Hell for these folks is paved with good intentions.

For most of them anyway. There are zealots out there who have less wholesome reasons for handing you that Jesus Rawks comic.

Which is why theocracy is something I think anyone- especially religious people- should fight to the death to prevent. It means temporal horror, and spiritual pollution.
Robertsmith
Posted on Monday, June 3, 2002 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Hobby,
The real way to take shots at over zealous blind faith Christians is to make them read the Bible (few of them actually have), and try and get them to explain all the contradictions in this book they claim is divinely inspired and perfect and the answer to everything ever. I believe planting seeds of doubt is a much more powerful way to get people to think than to reveal your pentagram tattoo. However, I think it's totally naive to believe you can get most of these overzealous protestants to think about anything or even listen to you. Have you ever tried to have an intelligent debate with a Southern Baptist? Not gonna happen. Yes, it may be immature to act rebelliously towards them and try to frighten them, because in reality it's just going to confirm their made up religion even more for them, but I can guarantee you you will never ever get any conservative protestant to listen to a goddamn word you're saying that contradicts what they've been programmed to believe, no matter how intelligent your arguments are. I know, I've tried many times myself. Someone who thought my soul needed saving would come up to me and ask me what I thought would happen after I died, and I told them, and then they recite their prefabricated nonsense, and then I give them a million examples of how their Holy book they're getting all their arguments from is just another book full of historical innacuracies and gaping contradictions and is valuable as a philosophy text and little else, and their eyes and ears close, the little ant inside their head presses the "does not compute" button, the gears reset, and they continue with more prefabricated "Jesus died for you" arguments. The smarter your argument, the less they understand you. That's the way it works with zealous protestants. Catholic priests on the other hand are generally very intelligent and you can have incredible conversations with them where both parties learn a lot, but the Hell House which I was referring to was a psycho southern protestant creation, and no intelligent argument will ever get across to those morons and so you might as well hand them Judas Priest records and be done with it.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Monday, June 3, 2002 - 6:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Christianity may be news in Africa or Asia"

Africa (excluding those African Nations facing the Mediterranean or the Red Sea) is predominantly Christian in one form or another so Christianity is certainly not news to Africa.

Actually the only thing we can be sure of is that Islam is growing. Most sources seem to point out that Christainity is shrinking.

This site list a few sources on this.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm

Hobgoblin
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Monday, June 3, 2002 - 5:53 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Taking intelligent, well thought out shots at any religious, political, philosophical or other standpoint is a good thing for all parties concerning. It's good for those taking the shots and it's good for those receiving them. It can be a learning process for all parties concerned.

However too many of these shots are made by people who have little or no understanding about what they are taking a shot at. You cannot possibly attack a standpoint unless you understand the standpoint you are attacking.

Christianity gets more than its fair share of moronic attacks because there is a section of people (unfortunately a lot larger than we would hope for) who attack Christianity basically because they deem it not to be a cool thing to follow. 'Pagan' beliefs (no matter how bizzare) are never the subject of attack by such people because these people believe such things to be cool and alternative. Buddhism get's less than its fair share of moronic attacks because a lot of the morons view Buddhism (or at least their dipstick understanding of it) to be fairly cool.

So as to all the "gay satanist communist democratic druggie tattooed pro choice" brigade who have this childish desire to shock (no offence to genuine, gays, communists, democrats, drug users, wearers of tatoos and pro-choicers, who are in effect just regular folk). Well in reality you shock nobody. You're just embarrasments with single digit IQs and poor personal hygeine, you're completely irrelevant.

Hobgoblin
Robertsmith
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

To quote The Curse of Millhaven, "all gods children, they all gotta die...."
Chrysippvs
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You are a funny one robertsmith....

....
Robertsmith
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

It also depends on where you are, as I doubt you would find Christian knocking in the deep south boring. You'll be getting death threats within weeks if you were to proclaim yourself a follower of Mr. LaVey in Tennessee. I feel all religion is detrimental to human progress (yes even Buddhism), but Christians are just particularly easy targets (as are Muslims), so why not take a shot once in a while? It may be futile, but I think it's better to keep resistance to their movements as visible as possible, as opposed to sitting silently in my bohemian bubble which is supposedly insulated from all religious interference.
Robertsmith
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Puerile means childish and juvenile. Well you know, what? Sometimes I find it fun to be puerile.
Yeah, I concede that my suggested method for Christian bashing is stooping nearly to their level, but I feel it's also no more puerile than a John Waters film. I find something very satisfying in exploiting peoples fears and making people uncomfortable with something as rediculous as hair dyed green. Yes, it's totally high school. I suppose I could also try to explain to these people the meaning of Nietzsche's Antichrist, but somehow I just don't think they'll get it, and so I prefer to confront them with that which terrifies them, namely anything that's not exactly like they are. Its just another way of saying fuck you, that's all. I spend very very very little time ever even thinking about Christianity, but it is something I find absurd which when I'm confronted with, I like to confront it back, even if it's on Puerile terms. Is having a tattooed pierced gay fat goth girl going to a pentecostal church constructive? Hell, no. You have to realize though that you cannot reason with the insane, so why not at least poke fun at them?
I feel sorry for anyone who's too mature or intellectual to react to something childishly once in a while. If I've lost my youth, I might as well be dead. I think there's a middle ground somewhere here...
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

K.

I said that I don't have the numbers on the other countries. On Argentina I do: 95% Roman Catholic. And believe me, Argentinians are not Fundamentalists on ANYTHING...

The rest of SA countries have the same background.

Yes, I have not read the book, but it seems so far-fetched. South America has been Roman Catholic (last time I checked, this was a Christian religion) for some 5 centuries. Christianity may be news in Africa or Asia, but America from Florida down was colonized by Catholics.

This Jenkins guy seems to be the latest "catastrophe-du-jour" peddler. Forget the "yellow peril" or the "brown peril". Now it's the "carries-a-cross peril".
Anatomist
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, it appears you haven't read his book, you don't have the numbers, and haven't done any research... I can't put my finger on it, but the historian who spent the last several years intensively studying and writing on the subject seemed a little more convincing...

K.
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Anatomist:

I have to disagree with this Jenkins guy. How can this dreaded Christianity expand into Argentina, where 95% of the population is already Roman Catholic? I don't have the numbers, but I'm pretty sure the same stands for Chile, Paraguay, Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia.

Brazil, the 500 lb gorilla? Au contraire, they are going away from the Catholic Church and into Macumba and African-based rituals.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but I certainly don't see an Argie or an Uruguayan strapping dynamite around his waist to bomb...who?
Anatomist
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Christian knocking is pretty borish now...it was funny when Voltaire did it, smart when Nietzsche did it, now it seems like it is just attacking a lot of straw men, and honestly is often puerile..."

Many christian ideas and beliefs may seem so ridiculous as to not even represent a moving target for criticism to us, but Christianity (as with Islam) is growing like crazy. In terms of power and the course of the world, Chrisitanity is hardly a 'straw man'. In fact, I think we exist at the tail end of a brief anomaly in history where people actually have the freedom to speak heresies openly and live relatively unencumbered by religious control and oppression. I say that if you enjoy Christian-bashing, might as well get some while you can.

I heard this historian Jenkins on the radio talking about his book: THE NEXT CHRISTENDOM. And the projections he made were quite freaky:


{Jenkins (history and religious studies, Pennsylvania State Univ.) believes that we are on the verge of a transformational religious shift. As he explains it, Christianity, the religion of the West, is rapidly expanding south into Africa, Asia, and Latin America, and he predicts that by the year 2050, only about one-fifth of the world's three billion Christians will be non-Hispanic Caucasian. By numbers alone, they will be able to overwhelm the present political secular nation- and city-states and replace them with theocracies, similar to the Islamic Arab nations. He ends with a warning: with the rise of Islam and Christianity in the heavily populated areas of the Southern Hemisphere, we could see a wave of religious struggles, a new age of Christian crusades and Muslim jihads. These dire prognostications could be seen as just another rant from a xenophobic pseudo-prophet; however, the author is a noted historian, and his statements are well formed, well supported by empirical evidence, and compellingly argued.}

-- From Library Journal


K.
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Hell will be hot, smoky, loud, visually disturbing, and sensually confusing. "

You get ALL that for just 4 bucks? How much would it cost to add some E to the experience?
Chrysippvs
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"I'd bring all my gay satanist communist democratic druggie tattooed pro choice friends and we'd scare the living shit out of them...."


That attitude is just as trite and unhelpful as something like Hell House. Christian knocking is pretty borish now...it was funny when Voltaire did it, smart when Nietzsche did it, now it seems like it is just attacking a lot of straw men, and honestly is often puerile...

my two cents,

- J
Joalco
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Uhh, they already did make a documentary. Playing now in a theatre near you...


I think they call it "Hell House."
Robertsmith
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Why kill a bunch of orphaned nuns for satan? why not just do it for fun?
I must say that Hell House thing is fucking unbelievable. That would make an incredible documentary. I hope they go on tour. I'd bring all my gay satanist communist democratic druggie tattooed pro choice friends and we'd scare the living shit out of them....
Anatomist
Posted on Sunday, June 2, 2002 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

http://www.hellhouse.ms/main.html

This isn't a joke, they're sprouting up all over the country. Pentacostals are the fastest growing sect(s) in all christianity.

K.
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Saturday, June 1, 2002 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

There was an incident (in Florida I think) where some kids who played Vampire the Masquerade actually did kill their parents and drink their blood (just like the book said to, but I was always too lazy.)

SO, I wrote the Chick people a letter about that, demanding they do something.

It was my favorite RPG at the time and I wanted to see a tract about it.

But even with real live role-playing related dead people, based on a game where the characters were fucking DAMNED and EVIL and stuff, did they? NO.

Took em like two years and all they ever did was re-release the D&D one. They told me Ol' Jack is just real busy.

Lazy bastards! I mean, they couldn't have asked The Lord(tm) for a better setup, and they just let it lie there.

I'd go chop up a bus full of orphaned nuns in the name of Satan, but I just don't think it would do any good.
Robertsmith
Posted on Saturday, June 1, 2002 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You think? Scaring people into being religious is what god wants, right? Hell, Hernando DeSotos men took Indians who wouldn't convert in Florida, and cut their hands off and fed them to their Mastiffs. Jack Chick is the fucking easter bunny in comparison. I'm just glad he's around because he makes Christians look really bad.
Silent_Rich
Posted on Saturday, June 1, 2002 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The very last frame of the anti Dungeons and Dragons (Dark Dungeons I believe it's called) comic makes me really question whether Chick takes christianity just a little bit too seriously.
Silent_Rich
Posted on Saturday, June 1, 2002 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

we must have posted at nearly the same time ... how cheap.
Silent_Rich
Posted on Saturday, June 1, 2002 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

there are plenty of bizarre christian comics (and one related to why halloween is evil) at www.chick.com ... the home of chick publications.
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Saturday, June 1, 2002 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Jack Chick, baby.

http://www.chick.com/

If I were christian, I would still be offended by the illogic... but they are quite beautiful in their way, a mental train wreck spilling toxic faith and broken ideas all over the place.
Robertsmith
Posted on Saturday, June 1, 2002 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

And god gives you these 15 com...*CRASH!*
10, yes 10 commandments!

Thank god Vera that your cartoon confirmed for me that only white people will be in the rapture (or great snatch). There's another great psycho christian comic about why halloween is evil, that came as an insert for Jello Biafra's last spoken word album, 'll see if I can find it.
Pikkle
Posted on Saturday, June 1, 2002 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

BAAAHHHH!!!!
BAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!
BAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

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