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Archive through June 13, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » The Monkey Hole » The After Hours Lounge » Archive through June 13, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Chevalier
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

MY SECRET LIFE, by "Walter". Only Wilt Chamberlain was more ... um ... experienced. A sample of Walter's way of thinking, circa 1860:

"Many who have not tasted our sexual pleasures will call them beastly. They are not....The couples blest with imagination, they who by various excitements of which a mere animal is not capable, bring fucking to intellectual height, make it a dream of the senses, make lust and love in its sensuous elevation ethereal, a poetic delirium - they are not the beasts....

I after a time laughed to scorn the crude notions of those animal idiots, who think that all is beastly excepting simply putting a cock into a cunt - which is what beasts usually alone do."
Traineraz
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I read the P.D. in the way-back years, too. It's online at www.principiadiscordia.com.

I remember reading that passage! Unfortunately, my distaste for filtration organs and nitrates prevents me from taking part in that ritual, for I now consume the "Smart Dogs," Hot Dogs of Soy. (I won't mention the rodent hair issue, since there are probably a few in the Tofu Dogs as well.)

On the other hand, if churches can use grape juice instead of wine, why can't I use a tofu dog instead of a Ballpark Frank? (Hmm, sounds like a guy I know . . . but that's another story.)
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

kallisti,

Henry Miller got my mojo rising.
Barsnake
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

yo - K -
godless heathen - or heathen goddess?
Admin
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

and Fanny Hill, Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure.

read at the even tenderer age of 16, and is responsible for turning me on for life.
Admin
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

and while I'm at it, I can thank the Principia Discordia, read at the tender age of 17, for curing me of either over zealous revisionist paganism and/or knee-jerk anti-christian reactionism.

III - A Discordian is Required during his early Illumination to Go Off Alone & Partake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday; this Devotive Ceremony to Remonstrate against the popular Paganisms of the Day: of Catholic Christendom (no meat on Friday), of Judaism (no meat of Pork), of Hindic Peoples (no meat of Beef), of Buddhists (no meat of animal), and of Discordians (no Hot Dog Buns).


Kallisti - Established 1988
_Blackjack
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I use "infidel". It means "without faith", which sums up my general epistemological position quite nicely.
Admin
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I prefer the term "godless heathen" myself.

covers it all for me.
_Blackjack
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

The word "pagan" means "of the countryside".




In context, the Latin paganus is best translated as "bupkin" or "hick". It wasn't meant nicely. Compare with "Urbane".
_Blackjack
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

Colin Anton Wilson




OK, one more time:

Colin Wilson: British buy who writes books about weird stuff.

Robert Anton Wilson: American guy who writes books about weird stuff.

Two different people. Colin W's middle name is "Henry".
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

actually I've seen few hippies who have shaved... it's quite a sight.
Nolamour
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hob,

I appreciate your insight as I would have no idea. What I hear from the Baptist or Catholic community is a different story, but I wouldn't want to get into that as it would cause much debate on religion.

"a bunch of long-haired, unshaven, dope-smoking hippies who like to dance naked around stone circles at midnight and hug trees"

LOL - That is quite funny...Very close, You should have seen the happenings at the wedding. It was at exactly midnight on Hallow's Eve, there were goats involved and a huge bon fire. It was a very joyous occasion, by the way...and the two that married are very good friends of mine. (nothing strange coming from them)
Traineraz
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Gob -

Isn't that the Establishment way? Describe anyone different as "Evil" and the Establishment/Normals as "Good," dividing and conquering the masses so they pay more attention to what their neighbor is doing with that sheep (an animal with which they, for some unknown reason, strongly identify) than what the Establishment is doing with their money, or their water supply, or the pollution in their air, or with toxic waste?
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"The Wind in the Willows" and "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn"

Made a great song on Van Morrison's The Healing Game.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nolamor,

I really don't believe that the general social conception of Pagans is that they are evil. Society just views then as being a bit odd and strange, but not evil. Society often views them as a bunch of long-haired, unshaven, dope-smoking hippies who like to dance naked around stone circles at midnight and hug trees. Not exactly the image of pure evil.

Fundamentalist Christians on the other hand often do view them as evil, but then they also view Islam, Hinduism, Catholicism and just about anyone whose views differ from their own as being evil.

Hobgoblin
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Harry Crews and Larry Brown. Two great southern
writers.
Chevalier
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I read "Wise Blood". Cracked cracker Southern fiction, complete with an Indian mummy-theft.

Have you read any Walker Percy? I.e., LANCELOT ?
Kite
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

It's probably a longshot, but has anyone here read Flannery O'Connor's Wise Blood? It's what you'd expect from Flannery, it's dark and peculiar and wonderful, and I think it offers one of the most terrifying world pictures created in modern American fiction. Just take a look at this line: "Later he saw Jesus move from tree to tree in the back of his mind, a wild ragged figure motioning him to turn around and come off into the dark where he was not sure of his footing, where he might be walking on the water and not know it and then suddenly know it and drown." Yikes.
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Artemis, I did not see your post before posting mine. Did not mean to be repetitive about the Pagan thing.
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh, and YES!..."The Wind in the Willows". Especially the chapter: "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn". (A chapter that has been Bowdlerized in some US editions.)

I met this book in very special circumstances. Some 12 years ago my wife and I rented this small motorboat and went up the Thames all the way to Oxford. During a stop, I found this book and enjoyed it during the trip.

Oh, it was magickal. You have to go very slowly, so the landscape slowly unfolds in front of you. And you open and close locks, stop at riverside pubs, it was so..."civilized" It was also quite amusing because it had been one of the rainiest summers in history, it was the first sunny weekend in the summer. So it looked that everybody in England was running after a ball. FootBALL, Cricket BALL, Tennis BALL, Badmington B...whatever. No matter what ball you can think of, somebody was running after it.

On another subject. Colin Anton Wilson? Heinlein? Starhawk? Is there a large overlap between the Absinthe community and the Pagan community?
Nolamour
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Good to know, Thanks Artemis. As you are probably aware, I hear opinions from all ends of the spectrum and many people in the South have some strange misconceptions. The South...sometimes known as the Bible Belt.
Artemis
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm with Chevalier. You want to know how it changed me; read it. If it doesn't change YOU, there's no point in me explaining how it changed ME.

Nolamour, evil is as evil does. It might surprise you to know how many "pagans" are members of this forum. The word "pagan" means "of the countryside". Of course the words were "earthy". That's the heart and soul of the thing.
Chevalier
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"THREE MEN IN A BOAT (TO SAY NOTHING OF THE DOG)", by Jerome K. Jerome.

Never mind why I liked it. Read it and discover why YOU'LL like it.
Pataphysician
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here's what I've learned:

THE ESSENTIAL LENNY BRUCE
The truth is "what is"."What should be" is just a dirty lie.

SOCIETY OF THE SPECTACLE / SITUATIONIST INTERNATIONAL
After the masses demanded "leisure time" from the capitalist system, leisure was commodified and sold back to them as popular culture to recoup the resulting lost productivity. Additionally, the message of popular culture is the reinforcement of conformity to that system.

PRANKS!
You must learn that society is not really your enemy. Society is your friend. It's just that your friend likes to play really rough. But if YOU play too rough, you're out of the game. - Mark Pauline

CHURCH OF THE SUBGENIUS
What is the true message of the Bible? Don't fuck with the well-connected.

REID FLEMING: WORLD'S TOUGHEST MILKMAN
I thought I told you to SHUT UP!!
Nolamour
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Perruche,
Hmmmm...I might like to peruse that book sometime.
I attended a pagan wedding a while back during Hallow's Eve. It was quite interesting as the Irish priest read his passages. I realized that there are some socail misconceptions as it was not at all evil. The words were quite earthly in form.
Perruche_Verte
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 8:11 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

One of the books that changed my life in a number of wonderful ways was The Spiral Dance, by Starhawk.

Like a lot of important books, it's based on a Big Lie. That is to say, a myth. But it's a very beautiful and compelling myth, which led me to many interesting friendships and experiences over the course of a number of years. Also lots of skinnydipping, sweat lodges and other 'getting-naked-with-near-strangers'-type activities.

Many people have mixed feelings about this book, and I'm no exception. But I think its social effects have been very pleasant.

Also, now you can meet all sorts of young people in their teens and 20s who were actually raised as Pagans. They are often very interesting people, as are the children of Buddhists.
Perruche_Verte
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Very cool thread, though I'd like to see more discussion as to WHY these books were so important to you, and HOW exactly they changed your life, instead of just a list of titles and authors. Otherwise, it's just name-dropping.

Books that actually do change people's lives, in the sense that they lead to different behavior, standards, goals, etc., are pretty few and far between. And maybe they should be. Life would be pretty unmanageable otherwise.

I want to thank Chrysippus for the gift of Epictetus, which I think I last saw back in high school and didn't appreciate then, having been thoroughly Epicurean and escapist at the time.
It's exactly the medicine I need right now, as I'm dealing with a lot of shit (failed relationship, among other things).

Stoicism is great solace when we don't have a lot of options.
Artemis
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 5:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dharma Bums by Jack Kerouac is right up there, too.
Artemis
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 5:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Different Suzuki.

"Zen Mind Beginner's Mind" was by Suzuki Shunryu, an ordained Zen priest who came to America and was instrumental in planting the seeds of the Dharma here. To be sure, that's a very good book.

Suzuki Daisetz was a scholar who translated Buddhist texts and wrote essays on Zen and Japanese culture in general.
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 4:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

ZEN MIND, BEGINNER'S MIND.
Artemis
Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 4:01 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

A volume on Zen Buddhism by Suzuki Daisetz.

Don't remember the exact name, but reading anything by D.T. Suzuki is like unwrapping a diamond.
Tristan
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Stranger in a Strange Land- Robert A. Heinlein

Illuminatus Trilogy- those nutcases

Rise and Fall of the Great Powers
_Blackjack
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Honestly, I can't say any books have changed my life. Most of my ideas are my own, and I've rarely run into something which I found truly novel. The Illuminatus! Trilogy affirmed to me that there were other people out ther who thought like I did, but that's about it.
Pataphysician
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes, but I thought I was leaning too heavy on the Dada.

So:

Dada Almanach (Richard Huelsenbeck)
Dada Painters And Poets (Robert Motherwell)
Dada Spectrum: The Dialectics Of Revolt
Marcel Duchamp [The big-ass catalog from Venice]
Hannah Hoch: Cut With The Kitchen Knife
Traineraz
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Pat A Physician -

What about Dada: Art and Anti-Art, by Hans Richter?
Pikkle
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Love in the Time of Cholera...
Tortainglese
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

House of the Dead by Dostoyevsky, and Chekov's The Seagull.
Barsnake
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

As someone already mentioned Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - H.S.T.
- any of his books especially the Fear and Loathing... titles.
- through reading Thompson's Hells Angels I was interested in his term Linkhorns for "white trash" types. Found Nelson Algren's Walk on the Wild Side which I'm reading now.
Pataphysician
Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The Essential Lenny Bruce [at age 14]
Book Of SubGenius [1983]
Reid Fleming: World's Toughest Milkman
Pranks! (Re/Search publication)
Exploits and Opinions of Doctor Faustroll, Pataphysician (Alfred Jarry)
Dada Manifesto 1918 (Tristan Tzara)
Memoirs of A Dada Drummer (Richard Huelsenbeck)
Raoul Hausmann & Berlin Dada (Timothy O. Benson)
Salt Seller (Marcel Duchamp)
Flight Out Of Time (Hugo Ball)
Surrealist Manifesto 1924 (Andre Breton)
Society Of The Spectacle (Guy Debord)
On the Passage of a Few People Through a Rather Brief Moment in Time: The Situationist International
The Ego And It's Own (Max Stirner)
Tarantula (Bob Dylan)
No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs (John Lydon)
England's Dreaming (Jon Savage)
Liner notes to "Songs Of A Dead Dreamer" album (DJ Spooky)
People Funny Boy: The Lee "Scratch" Perry Story
everything written by Primo Levi
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wolfgang -

Copy me on the NYC info, too. I haven't been back since I moved to Tucson, I need an excuse!

I can even include a pilgrimage to visit Rudi, the Jelly-Toe Cat!

I'm one of those AOHellions too, traineraz@aol.com (not that it isn't in my profile here, anyway).

Thanks muchly.
Chrysippvs
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

wolfgang,

Is you will, drop me an e-mail at Chrysippvs@aol.com when you get the chance...


- J
Chrysippvs
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

When is it again...I have been having money woes recently and I am not sure if I can afford, hotels, etc..

It is a dreadful shame. Perhaps I can swing something. Perhaps...

- J
Wolfgang
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Justin, I hope you will be able to attend the NY GT, it would be a pleasure to share the green fairy with you.
Chrysippvs
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"What does your partner/[fill in appropriate term] think of that, I wonder! [G]"

She didn't, and when she did it made her cry...oy

I am terrible at relationships in reality, I have only had one real one (lasted nearly 4 years) and I had to terminate it recently as it was taking away from my academics. I have more important things to do right now (like learn arabic, aramaic, and I have nearly 25 books to read this summer) than play the depraved relationship game.


- J

"One must do violence to the object of one's desire; when it surrenders, the pleasure is greater."

Marquis De Sade
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

If you kiss your child, or your wife, say that you only kiss things which are human, and thus you will not be disturbed if either of them dies."




Sounds like a lovely thing to add to one's wedding vows.

What does your partner/[fill in appropriate term] think of that, I wonder! [G]
Chevalier
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I stand by my statement. ;-)
Chrysippvs
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 1:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"You were an unusual 12-year old, Justin, no doubt about it."

It was either Epictetus or New Kids on the Block, MC Hammer, and Vanilla Ice. Now which one is wierder? I think I made the right choice...

I still remember playing Castlevania III, listening to Tone Loc, and reading Epictetus, Frankenstein, and a book on Nazi War Crimes during the summer between my 5th and 6th grade year of school (you know that horrid step between grade school and middle school). I don't think I was any more wierd than any other 12 year old...


- J
I_B_Puffin
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I like 1984. The real motivation of governement: It's all about power.
Chevalier
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You were an unusual 12-year old, Justin, no doubt about it.
Admin
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

and for me it was Rocky Horror at age 13. I feel so, so ... shallow.

mwah!
Chrysippvs
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

When I call to mind what book changed my life more than any other I would have to say that it was the Enchiridion of Epictetus. I found it when I was 12, and it has helped me more in life than anything else.

It is very short (52 sayings) and I have printed it on one sheet of paper (doubled sided 8p font) and carry it about with me, reading it when I get stuck somewhere.

Some of my favorite quotes include:

saying 3:

"With regard to whatever objects give you delight, are useful, or are deeply loved, remember to tell yourself of what general nature they are, beginning from the most insignificant things. If, for example, you are fond of a specific ceramic cup, remind yourself that it is only ceramic cups in general of which you are fond. Then, if it breaks, you will not be disturbed. If you kiss your child, or your wife, say that you only kiss things which are human, and thus you will not be disturbed if either of them dies."

saying 9:

"Sickness is a hindrance to the body, but not to your ability to choose, unless that is your choice. Lameness is a hindrance to the leg, but not to your ability to choose. Say this to yourself with regard to everything that happens, then you will see such obstacles as hindrances to something else, but not to yourself."


- J

"I have seen the true path. I will no longer warm myself by the fire...I will become the flame."

- Lim-Dul
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

Fortunately, you've got a cosmic green thumb. It sounds like you've managed to create a garden.




Still a few weeds, though! Where's the Roundup . . . oops, can't use that, it's a Monsanto product . . . and I'm out of Finale (a non-Monsanto product that works faster anyway) . . . I know, I'll pour the Nasty Sebor Strong on them! That kills ANYTHING!
Larsbogart
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 7:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Complicated, hard to understand, at times disappointing, checkbook.
Marccampbell
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

trainer,

all that negative stuff you went through contained useable energy. The Tibetans call it "the manure of the Bodhi field" or the shit of reality. You can grow things in shit. Fortunately, you've got a cosmic green thumb. It sounds like you've managed to create a garden. Congratulations!
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

But if I want to be really serious about the book that most influenced my life . . .

When in college, I got caught up in one of them there Evangelical churches . . . you know, the kind that puts the FUN in FUNdamentalist.

OK, it was more of a cult, with recommendations like cutting off friends and family who wouldn't follow your beliefs, shutting out popular culture, answering any question with "It's God's will" or some similar nonsense, etc.

Fucked little ol' me (then a closeted homosexual type who was all too happy to believe that SAY-TAN was the root of all my issues) up RIGHT GOOD. I went from right-wing Evangelical to physically self-abusive, semi-suicidal drunk in one BIG swing. I'm just lucky nothing scarred.

I eventually moderated somewhat, but finally fully rejected organized "religion" outright after reading "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine. I highly recommend it to any Fundie!

It took a couple more years of exploration (including Buddhism) to lead to my rejection of the concept of "Divinity."
Marccampbell
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

ONE HUNDRED YEARS OF SOLITUDE.
Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
Language as magic.
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Carfax - does that mean you're a Mason (being on the winning side)? Or a Monk at the Abbey . . .

Oh, and I finally found that "other" book, the one that I was reminded of by "The Book of the Subgenius."

After several misspellings, including "The Urticaria Book" (once I remembered what urticaria is -- hives -- I realized it wouldn't be a pleasant read) Google asked, "Or are you looking for . . . "

It's "The Urantia Book." You can read all 2,000 pages online at www.urantia.org, or you can do what I did and read their detailed introduction/description, then the titles of the papers. I recommend a paper bag to help prevent hyperventilation.

I won't comment further on it except to say that it has only changed my life in that I now perceive an acquaintance in a whole new light.

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