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Archive through June 17, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » The Monkey Hole » Holly Balls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! » Archive through June 17, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Wolfgang
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 5:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"if they tighten up their process, it is within their reach (IMHO)of them creating a good product. "

They probably won't because there's people buying it already and it would cost them more money if they stopped the distillation earlier.

I poured a small bottle of "bad batch" this weekend at a party. I didn't had anything else to bring and it was not that bad afterall, just a little bit pushed too far. Those who never had better absinthe before where pleased and those who had tasted better products (like the best Moonman's and/or Jade) didn't really liked it.

It's like everything else, beer, wine ... without a good reference, it's difficult to judge.

Anyway, I don't need to taste everything that comes on the market anymore because I know I can trust some people around here. It's not a blind trust, it's based on a long exchange of comments and reviews on this board and elsewhere.
Artemis
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 4:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

> That's why they hide the labels on wine bottles
> at comparison tastings.

You could blindfold me and I would be able to pick a Breaux absinthe over a shoe polish absinthe every time just by walking up it. I wouldn't even have to touch it.

> When I got here Don who hadn't tasted most of
> the bands of absinthe was telling people what
> they should think about them.

Don was doing his best to EDUCATE people about absinthe from the basis of an experience that was broader than theirs, in fact, broader than they could imagine.

> I waiting until that stopped before I posted
> because I didn't want to get beat up for my
> ideas.

What ideas?
Artemis
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 4:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

> Then again, I haven't yet met an absinthe I
> didn't like.

Take out the last three words, and we finally have a useful commentary from you. I don't give a shit what you like. If all you had done was talked about what you like, I wouldn't have argued with you; I wouldn't have even commented. But you made clueless speculation about why certain attributes you say you like came to be in a certain product; I saw it as spreading ignorance, and I wasn't inclined to let it stand.

I promise to "open up my mind" soon by trying all sorts of second-rate products, and I won't take the word of people whose experience with absinthe I know and respect. No, I'll order a bunch of second-rate shit from Spain and broaden my experience. NOT!!

It's YOU who needs to open up, MD. To quality absinthe. You haven't tasted even one; your list is just a list of Spanish crap and French nouveaupseudo absinthe. Oh, and one other, made by people who learned their licks from reading this board for hints from the likes of Ted Breaux.

> Artemis's opinion shouldn't get any weight and
> Ted's should go in that same catalog

Right. YOU tell us about absinthe. When did your shipment from SC arrive? Today. Oh mine didn't come. Should I worry?

> Just because Ted distills absinthe doesn't make
> his OPINION any more real than mine.

No, it means he knows what the FUCK he's talking about, which is more than I can say for people talking about how "nuttiness" is a nice touch in a product that could not possibly be nutty unless it was fucked up. Too bad Ted abandoned this board, but I can understand why he did it.
Traineraz
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

MD -

You haven't met an absinthe you didn't like because you haven't had the Nasty Sebor Strong (in no way related to the REAL Sebor).
Giovannigray
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I've also noticed the same thing about Kubler that Bunnylebowski cited earlier in this thread..Kubler loses that burnt aroma if you let it sit for a few minutes after it louches. It develops an almost floral bouquet. Very pleasant and unexpected. It's now one of my favorites, since I've discovered it improves with "breathing".
Giovannigray
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't know why, but F. Guy tastes like a smoother version of Serpis to me. Whatever the herb (I'm not experienced enough to identify them accurately) that predominates in Serpis, aside from the anise, is there in Francois Guy as well.

But then again, I think Pernod 68 tastes like Sebor (the real one).
Pikkle
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

actually the Kubler is much better than both the Frank Guy and the Segarra... it's the truth!
Mogan_David
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Cheri,

I see from you profile that you like Segarra. I doubt that you will be dissapointed with either the FG or the Kubler. I personally prefer the FG to both Kubler and Segerra, but only just. All three are very good.

Then again, I haven't yet met an absinthe I didn't like.

Here's my list in order of preference:
FG
Segerra
Deva
Kubler
NS
Deva 70
Serpis

Cheers, MD
Cheri
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well whatEVER the verdict is on Kubler, I just ordered some from Marcus along with Francois Guy so I'll be able to taste it for myself.
Pikkle
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes it does... YES IT DOES!!!
Admin
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I defy anyone to say someone shouldn't like a product if they do. and I certainly encourage people to make up their own minds and develope their own tastes.

BUT, just because someone likes a product doesn't necessarily make it a fine product. we should draw a distinction. Kubler definately has problems. the manufacturers have made *mistakes* ... and whether or not someone likes it or not does NOT, again, make it a fine product.
Mogan_David
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I take my hat off to Ted's knowledge of absinthe, but just because he can make better absinthe than Kubler, doesn't make Kubler bad. It's another variation on a theme, and I'm glad I tried it.

MD
Verawench
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"just making a point."

A lame one, about Gypsies and Hitler. Not about absinthe.
Timk
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Hitler says Gypsies should be shot, Hitler knows much more about Gypsies than me, Gypsies should be shot, end of story"

Not in any way comparing you to Hitler Ted, just making a point.
Wolfgang
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Just because Ted distills absinthe doesn't make his OPINION any more real than mine. "

Not because he distills absinthe but because he distills the most amazing absinthe one can imagine. To make such a product, someone must have a perfect understanding of what he's doing. That makes his opinion about absinthe related topics worth a lot more than the opinion of someone who don't have a clue.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Emile,

I can't comment on Kubler as I haven't tasted it but I totally agree with your last post. Until someone tries an absinthe he/she is not in any position to judge it. Even after tasting, a person's opinion is simply their own opinion and not a fact about the product. There are no authorities to judge whether an absinthe is good or bad. It's entirely personal. If it tastes good to you then it is good absinthe. Quality is about whether or not an item satisfies the consumer, therefore quality can only be judged by the individual consumer and there can be no definitive 'quality taste'.

Hobgoblin
Bunnylebowski
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I've discovered if you let the Kubler "breathe" for about 10-15 minutes before drinking it (after mixing it with very cold water), it loses the tails, and becomes an incredibly smooth drink, which still has a nutty flavor, but not nearly as dominant as when the glass is first poured.

I believe once it's mixed with water, it takes a little time for the oxygen to break down whatever it is that's causing the burnt flavor. It works the same way with wine (except of course you don't add water) .

I discovered this at a local bar while waiting for a pool game. I brought in a flask with 3 oz of Kubler in it, and got a glass of ice water from the bartender. I drank half the ice water then refilled the glass with the Kubler, stirred, and then left it sitting while playing my pool game. When I came back to drink it, it was super silky and refreshing, and had none of that toastiness I had expected.

-Bunny
Zman7
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have tried Kubler, also many and various commercial and sundry hausgemachtes. The flavor in Kubler is definitely from a distillation pushed to far. The flavor that has been described as "nuttiness" is partially from empyreuma and partially from pushing the distillation to far as to allow the "tails" to infiltrate the "heart" of the distillate. If you like it, then there is no problem. However, if you are looking for a taste of quality, then it's not there (yet) in Kubler. In time if they tighten up their process, it is within their reach (IMHO)of them creating a good product.
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 9:48 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Serpis really whips the Lama's ass.
Emileguysmiley
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I didn't like Kubler. I thought that the burnt taste was way too strong. I can see liking it if it was less strong.

But I think that:

"Ted Breaux says it tastes of empyreuma, it's NOT good absinthe. End of story."

is a really upsetting comment. When I came to the forum I tasted as many brands as I could. I know that most people don't agree with my tastes, but I don't care they're my tastes.

I think that many (most?) of the people in the forum have the thought above about people who supposedly know absinthe better than them when they're tasting absinthe. In my head that makes them bad tasters and unreliable. You shouldn't come with any assumptions. That's why they hide the labels on wine bottles at comparison tastings. When I got here Don who hadn't tasted most of the bands of absinthe was telling people what they should think about them. I waiting until that stopped before I posted because I didn't want to get beat up for my ideas.

I think people should be allowed to hold whatever opinion they want without being beat up for it. It doesn't matter what the authorities say, David likes Kubler. I don't. Good. In an ideal world thoughts like ours should go side by side in some sort of catalog and be given equal ranking. Artemis has never tatsed Kubler. Good. Ted has and didn't like it. Fine. Artemis's opinion shouldn't get any weight and Ted's should go in that same catalog so that everyone could see it. Just because Ted distills absinthe doesn't make his OPINION any more real than mine.
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

She didn't...
...that's what pisses me off.

She just giggled and said
"yes, thank you!" over and over.

That was my St. Louis
chinese restaurant story.
Mogan_David
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 8:06 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

It all depends on how far she'll go to make it up to you.
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 8:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

When a plate of food comes out with
a long black hair in it, that I assume,
came from the beautiful asian waitress,
I don't think "Hmmm, this is going to
enhance my dining experience".
Mogan_David
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 7:51 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

> I don't need to taste it. If Ted Breaux says it tastes of empyreuma, it's
> NOT good absinthe. End of story.

Well there you go. You haven't tasted it yet you condem it. Not because you don't like it, but because it doesn't fit in with your definition of absinthe.

It makes me a little sad for you. Your preconcieved notions of how things are supposed to be interfere with your enjoyment of life in general.
Things can be new and wonderfull even if they are a little off the standard. Seriously try to open your mind a little, if it tastes good, go with that and enjoy.
Artemis
Posted on Sunday, June 16, 2002 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Blackjack, your point is well taken.

Mogan, I didn't give you a class, I presented some basic facts to demonstrate to everybody who read your post (not just you) that your analogy was faulty. I could ask you why you think I need a lecture on how to know when absinthe is crap or not.

Lambic is the way it is on purpose, burnt-tasting absinthe is not the way it is on purpose. If an absinthe tastes burnt, (toasty, of melanoidins, whatever) the makers either didn't know what they were doing or didn't care.

> My point was that simply nothing is out of
> bounds with me if it enhances the character of
> the final product.

Forget about Lambic because the analogy is useless. My point *about absinthe* is that the attributes in question DO NOT enhance the character of the final product. They detract from the product. Every distiller of fine absinthe knows it, and everybody who has tasted the products of such a distiller knows it.

> It's not poor distilling parctice if each and
> every batch has the same toasty character.

Bullshit. If absinthe tastes toasty, it's not good absinthe. If it tastes toasty every time, it's poor absinthe every time. And it gets toasty due to poor distilling practice. Trust me on this one; I'm not guessing.

> I would consider the toastyness an intentional
> decision on the part of the distiller,
> and therefore not bad practice.

If they're making "toasty" absinthe on purpose, they're clueless. It's bad practice.

> How can you tell me anything about Kubler unless you've tried it?

I explained that already. People who have learned to recognize what I have learned to recognize have described Kubler. I don't need to taste it. If Ted Breaux says it tastes of empyreuma, it's NOT good absinthe. End of story.

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