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Archive through June 18, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » The Monkey Hole » Holly Balls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! » Archive through June 18, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Wolfgang
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Fine" is when a product is made to be as good as possible regardless of cost or other considerations.

It's not applicable to NS and most commercial brands, that's for sure for reasons that are obvious to anybody who have walked the walk and even to those who just tasted better, correctly made absinthes.

Will I refuse a glass of NS if a friend offer me a small glass ? No, because it's still a drinkable concoction. But I won't lie to myself, telling it's a fine absinthe when it's not.

Anyway this discussion will soon be over I hope, when fine absinthes will be available to the public.
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

{envisioning Kallisti running naked in a field chasing butterflies, her long magenta hair flowing in the breeze, and . . . oh, look, those nice men brought some butterfly nets to help her on her quest! I hope they don't trip, they could get grass stains on those spankin' white coats.}
Admin
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh, and not to mention my second post below. heee.
Admin
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

you completely ignored the rest of my statement, which said everything you just re-iterated.

by "fine" I mean as in a fine wine. less expensive ones are certainly enjoyable, but they are in a different class, that is all.

I still enjoy many of the other brands. but they are not in the same class as some of the exquisite brews, jade and a few others, that I've had the pleasure of sampling. I enjoy all the brands you mentioned, and drink them regularly.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"whether or not someone likes it or not does NOT, again, make it a fine product."

I disagree entirely with this comment. How do you define 'fine'? Whether a product is deemed to be 'fine' or not is entirely down to how a person (or persons)perceives it and whether or not it appeals to his taste-buds. So whether or not a person likes an absinthe or not does determine whether the product is judged to be 'fine' or not. Do we then say that only certain select individuals are entitled to make this judgement and the rest of us should ignore our own taste-buds and just shut up and listen to our betters.

Also this 'once you've tried Jade then you will see that all the commercially available brands are crap' is garbage. I've tried 3 Jade absinthes. Did I like them? I certainly liked 2 of them and one of them I did not like (so I don't rate this one). Were they better than the other absinthes I have tasted? Two of them most certainly were (although in my opinion the unlabelled 'Old Way' from SC is not a million miles behind them). Does this mean that I now think NS, Serpis, Deva etc. are crap? Most certainly not, they are good absinthes. Why are they good absinthes? Because I like them.

If I taste something and I like it then it's good, if I taste something and I like it more then it's better. But that doesn't make the first one any less good and it certainly doesn't make it crap. In my opinion Jade Absinthe Edouard is considerably better than NS (currently my favourite commercially available brand, sorry Serpis you're now second). NS is still a good absinthe, it just means that Absinthe Edouard (in my opinion) is considerably better.

Does it put me off drinking NS etc. knowing that I have tasted something I liked more? Bollocks, I like NS, I enjoy the taste of it and I'll continue to enjoy it.

Hobgoblin
Wolfgang
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 6:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

... It is also possible that most of the butterscotch flavor comes directly from his base alcohol... Let's not forget that he's a brandy maker.

Just babbling...
Wolfgang
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 6:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I wonder if Segarra age his absinthe in wood barrel to hide some tail taste under this butterscotch flavor... Just wondering of course. Segarra's Absenta is still a good product, even if it doesn't taste like absinthe (herbal/floral).
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 5:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

> Segarra (which from Ted's guardedly positive
> review is the "one" I assume you meant)

Obviously not Segarra. The man who makes Segarra was probably making it before Ted was born; he hardly needs to pick up clues by reading here.
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Chevalier has gotten so good at speaking for me that I no longer see a need to speak about this issue.

Interested parties, please read Petermarc's comments on Kubler, and what Ted had to say.
Albertcamus
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I recently received my order of Tabu 73.I assumed I wouldnt like it because of the high alcohol content but I think its my favorite so far.The louche looks like pea soup. I was shocked the next morning to discoverd how much of it I drank.The last thing I remember was arguing on some forum about monotheism.
Etienne
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

He's breakin' my heart!
Chevalier
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Although I doubt that anyone who hasn't tried Jade will feel too sorry for you, Wolf. At least I don't! ;-)
Wolfgang
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

From another point of view, I could say count yourselves lucky of NOT having tasted a sample of Jade or other fine absinthes because once you taste it, you'r wasted. Craving for more when there's no more available !
Chevalier
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Traineraz wrote:
"So, what would be your recommendation for those of us who don't know all the right people, and/or lack the resources to spend $100 or more per bottle? Only order Segarra (which from Ted's guardedly positive review is the "one" I assume you meant) or, once it's "established," Emile 68? Don't buy anything?"

I think you already know the answer, Traineraz. The problem is that you donít like it. (In fact, none of us do -- Artemis and Wolfgang included.) The answer is:

If you want the best, under the conditions which you specified above Ö youíll have to wait for Jade, or perhaps order Emile 68 until then. If you find these two options limited in terms of variety, availability and affordability, then lower your quality expectations and order as many of the other absinthe brands as you wish. Just about all of us here have done the latter, at one time or another. But realize that you are compromising. Itís a pity Ö but as Cronkite would say, ďthatís the way it isĒ.
Baz
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Kallistipus, will you marry me?
Admin
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

they are, at best, second rate. but that does not mean that a few of them are not fine, refreshing, drinkable products.

personally, I prefer NS for everyday slogging (kubler is the only brand of the recent wave that I've tried. this may change). I think it's lovely. it still does not compare however to some of the "top shelf" products I've had the pleasure of sampling. but I approach them from different perspectives. one is a lovely aperitif for dragin' out to picnics and drinking in the sun. the other is a rare and beautiful concoction that is so exquisite it makes you want to run thru the fields naked and chase butterflies thru the bushes.
Traineraz
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

I'll take that one,

Build a time machine.


I have a feeling Jade will be available before the time machine.

. . . or IS Jade the time machine?
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'll take that one,

Build a time machine.
Traineraz
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Artemis -

By your more experienced standard, nearly all commercially-available absinthes are, at best, "second-rate," and the wondrous elixirs to which you compare are only available to the chosen few who know the right people. What exactly is the point of slamming the "second-rate" absinthes and those who may enjoy them, when these are the only products to which the majority have access?

Granted, Emile 68 is shipping now, as I recall from a posting a couple of days ago, so I expect we'll have reviews of the production version shortly. Hopefully, it will be as good as the pre-production version I've read about.

Jade won't be out for at least another six months, right? Maybe longer? What's the point of comparing anything to a product which is not available? I have no doubt it's excellent, as every comment I've seen from one who has sampled it is overwhelmingly positive . . . but we still can't BUY it, so it doesn't much matter how wonderful it is at this time.

So, what would be your recommendation for those of us who don't know all the right people, and/or lack the resources to spend $100 or more per bottle? Only order Segarra (which from Ted's guardedly positive review is the "one" I assume you meant) or, once it's "established," Emile 68? Don't buy anything and wait for Jade?
Artemis
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

> Is this "one other" a reference to Francois Guy?

No. I don't want to say any more about it. The point is, people who have never tasted fine absinthe believe there is a wide spectrum of absinthe from which to choose these days. This is not the case. There is a rejuvenation in absinthe interest, and thus everything that will pass for absinthe is enjoying a share of the market. This includes Spanish products that have long since veered from what quality absinthe was in France in the 1800s, pseudo-absinthes from various places that for various reasons miss the mark, and outright frauds. There are virtually NO quality absinthes commercially available. This may change; apparently it is changing. But to list the things that MD listed and make any judgement about what is or is not quality absinthe is to be like the blind man describing the elephant. I was once in the same position, and made the same mistakes. I tried to tell Ted on this board that Deva was good absinthe! I am NOT being snooty, I am telling what I know. Thank you, Chevalier, for your eloquent and accurate defense. The only thing for which I have to apologize is my tone, which gets away from me when I get frustrated.

> If I had enough money, I would buy every single
> brand of absinthe just for the pleasure of
> building a collection of nice... bottles.

For whatever reason, Ted appears to have done the same. That's one of many reasons his words have weight. People who think I'm ass-kissing or saying people should bow because he's Ted or because I am Artemis obviously don't know me either personally or from this board. I don't play that. Everybody can drink piss if they want to; it's all the same to me. But if you come in here and defend second-rate absinthe, I reserve the right to point out it's second rate. And it's NOT a matter of opinion. It's not the difference between absinthe with spearmint and absinthe with coriander. It's the difference between a product crafted with quality and attention to detail, and one that was let fly out the door in the interest of making a profit.
Wolfgang
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Chev, I think he's talking about this new 200$ Czech absinthe that claim to be autentic ...
Wolfgang
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

By the way I'll be happy to sample very small glass of all available crap at the NY GT.

It's not about being snooty, it's about putting my money on a very fine and amazing bottle of wine or other nice alcohol instead of ordering a crappy absinthe online that will most probably make me want to puke for the same price.

If I had enough money, I would buy every single brand of absinthe just for the pleasure of building a collection of nice... bottles. Until then, I only order absinthe when my curiosity reach a very high level of excitement.

F.Guy is one of those.

Emile 68 will be one of those too.

Kubler is not. I'll give it a try only if I don't have to pay for it.
Chevalier
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Artemis, you wrote:
"Oh, and one other, made by people who learned their licks from reading this board for hints from the likes of Ted Breaux."

Is this "one other" a reference to Francois Guy?
Chevalier
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 7:59 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

We're speaking two different languages here. If the release of Emile 68 doesn't help them to merge, Jade's release certainly will.

Artemis and Wolfgang, among a few others here, are astonishingly passionate about absinthe. They have tried the best. They are absinthe epicures. I define the "absinthe epicure" as a person with the experience, expertise, and sense of appreciation to make informed judgments about absinthe, fine or otherwise. In theory, I'd like to BE an epicure; in fact, I don't have the drive/resources/education to BECOME one. I'd wager that many of us are in the same boat.

It's frustrating for an absinthe epicure to see people justifying a product that calls itself absinthe, yet neglects to follow quality standards for absinthe's preparation. The word that comes to mind is "mediocrity", and it is an affront to that which the epicure stands for. Mediocrity cannot be defended or excused. If it is enjoyed (Kubler), so be it; but understand that, from the standpoint of "absinthe epicurean-ism", you are enjoying an inferior product: inferior in its preparation methods and in its disregard of time-tested standards meant to protect absinthe's quality.
Perruche_Verte
Posted on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 6:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"They probably won't because there's people buying it already and it would cost them more money if they stopped the distillation earlier."

Excellent point.

I hereby pledge not to buy this stuff until they get their act together.

Yes, I'm sticking my head in the sand. But I feel like I owe it to myself not to trifle with something that has such a glaring flaw.

If you look at FG, it's not an 'authentic' absinthe, but there are specific reasons for that (mainly low alcohol content), which don't seem to involve fucking up the distillation or cheating the customer. Which is what Kubler is doing, if they are knowingly selling a flawed product.

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