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Archive through June 19, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » The Monkey Hole » GUN FORUM » Archive through June 19, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lord H has a good point about dwindling animal populations. I often hear the bullshit argument from hunters that they're preventing population overgrowth, when in reality, the reason why deer overpopulation is a problem is because we're consuming more and more of their habitat. People seem to get pretty pissed when their old neighborhood is razed to put in a strip mall. You can't equate deer with humans, but it's common sense to realize that the less space you have, the more overpopulation and overcrowding will become problematic.

There's a great farside cartoon which shows a typical office interior. The lights go dark, and you hear BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!. The lights come back on and you see 2 Deer holding shotguns and dead businessmen everywhere. One deer looks to the other one and says "Looks like they were getting overpopulated."
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


The badgers you have in the UK are a whole different animal from the ones in the US. Different genera, in fact. The North American badger is not something that would end up in children's books. They are fiercly territorial, cranky when startled, and utterly fearless.

A threat to man? Not on a large scale, but neiter is a pissed-off bull terrier. I still wouldn't want one gnawing on my arm.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


I've actually seen a badger in the wild, and it didn't seem to have any interest in killing me, nor did I have any interest in killing it.

If you got close enough to the badger, and especially if you startled it, it would attack you. Badgers and humans have very similar temperments that way.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

BBs = shotgun. A shotgun, especially 12 or 10 gauge, would knock on your ass even quicker than most large-bore rifles.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

In case I was misunderstood, what I meant in my own response to that story was:

> The Bunny man coming up fast in the home
> stretch,

I thought Bunny had written the story. I haven't read much by Burroughs.

> That Badger story made me want to puke,

in disgust at the killing of an animal that should not have been killed

> massacre

the asshole who killed the badger, because it pissed me off that bad

> or die on the cross

because I used to behave the same way - I can't even count the things I've killed just because I could and it amused me to do so.

I saw a TV show about badgers in the UK - people there feed them in their back yards at night and the badgers become quite docile. They can be extremely playful with other badgers, although I didn't see them go so far as to play among the people. Unless the badger in the campsite was attacking people, there was no reason to kill it.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I wonder what kind of gun it was then? There were little steel BBs stuck in the storm trooper, anywho...
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Anyone who believes a badger is a dangerous animal to man is full of shit. Sure it's very strong and has big teeth and claws and if you corner it it'll attack you with fierce ferocity. Badgers are animals that will do their best to keep away from humans. They are not farm pests either. Anyway in the UK (and Ireland) they are protected and anyone caught killing a badger (unless you're from the Home Office and doing under very strict conditions and under extreme circumstances) is likely to recieve a jail sentence.

And as for then just creating more by breeding, well what an ignorant statement. Badger numbers are dwindling, hence their protected status. Not everything humans blast to oblivion just for the fun of it is capable of recovering from the damage done to it's species. But hey, why worry, just blast every species to oblivion, chop down every forest to make hamburger wrappers, just waste everything. Who cares if its irreplaceable so long as we've got our air-con, we don't need wildlife, forests etc. when we live in cities do we? Dream on.

I don't have a problem with hunters (despite being a vegetarian myself) or people who chop down trees, but when this is done with no respect for nature or any sense of responsibility then it is a very sick business indeed.

Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

kill whatever you like... they'll make more...
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I definitely understand your POV MD. I actually have no problem with guns, and I respect people who use them responsibly, or are enthusiastic collectors of them. The design and craftsmanship that can go into some of these guns is pretty amazing.

Hunting for the sake of actually killing your own food is also respectable, and I can't criticize anyone for that because I'm not a vegetarian. If you're going to kill an animal for food, it's far better to do it in that animals natural habitat and as quickly as possible, then to cram them into pens 3x3 wide, with thousands of other animals screaming and bleating, and cut their throats so they can be somebody's cheeseburger. However, Deer are incredibly beautiful intelligent creatures, and I don't have the conscience to kill them. I've tried, and missed on purpose.

Funny you mentioned Burroughs wife, because I was thinking of that the whole time I posted that story. The main point however is the motive behind the action. The badger killer guy was a meathead who got a kick out of destroying something innocent and vulnerable, while Burrows and his unlucky wife were just plain fucking stupid loaded with morphine, and didn't show firearms the caution and reserve they require. Play William Tell with lawn darts for Chrissake!

A good friend of mine was accidentally killed by a shotgun he and his friends were playing with, which is one of the many reasons I believe having guns around you introduces to great a potential of harm to be worth the risk. Educated gun owners are fine, and I support their constitutional rights, but the potential for accident is too frightening to me. (I've been mugged at gunpoint before, too, and I still refuse to carry a firearm!) Every one must make up their own mind, but I will never allow a gun in my house!
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"The point of the William S. Burrows [sic] story...
It's about a knee jerk reaction to kill something even though it isn't necessarily threatening you. "

Ask him about Mrs. Burroughs.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Very well put.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 8:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


I agree with you with everything except the "Man is a bad animal" comment.

I will say that some people are bad, and many shouldn't be allowed anywhere near animals, nature, guns or air for that matter.

Fuckheads like the guy who shot the badger should be seriously fined and their guns taken away from them. You are right, badgers are nice creatures unless you fuck with them. I've been out in the woods with badgers too, and I remember each time fondly. (Neither myself or the badger were harmed in any way in the encounter)

I've been close to bears, rattlesnakes, bobcats, and countless other animals. I never hurt any of those animals, it's not what hunting is about.

When you talk about dangerous deer, well you are just being silly. Do you think a hawk sees a field mouse as dangerous. No, it's food. When I see a deer, I see it the same way. I don't wish to hurt it, I simply want the meat in my freezer. I'm allways very carefull to cause the animal as little pain as possible.
Many people who see hunting as barbaric don't think the same about fishing, though fishing is much more brutal from the fish's point of view.

Well anyway, I just want to say that I agree with your sentiment. If you want to punish people who wantonly harm wildlife simply for some macho thrill then I'm all with you. Fines and jail sentances for these evil people are OK with me.

Some people like myself just want to keep old traditions alive. We want to be able to teach our kids what it means to go out and get your own food. How to respect nature and to understand how death and life iteract with one another. It's not about being mean or cruel. Its about a way of life that will soon be gone. It's about memories that I'll cherish forever and the hope that I can create those same memories with my own kids.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The point of the William S. Burrows story is not "Badgers are friendly", the point is Man is a bad animal.
It's about a knee jerk reaction to kill something even though it isn't necessarily threatening you. I've actually seen a badger in the wild, and it didn't seem to have any interest in killing me, nor did I have any interest in killing it. That's how it works in the wild 99% of the time. As long as you show the animal's territory respect, they won't try and kill you. It's important to be armed in the wild in case of emergency, but I'm much more worried about Mr. Field & Stream thinking I'm one of the fierce and deadly kings of the forest called THE DEER and shooting me dead (happens at least once a hunting season somewhere).

My firearm of choice is a Crossman BB Gun with Daisy copper pellets. I sleep well at night knowing my family is protected from those renegade beer cans....
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 7:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

If this keeps up we could rename the forrum Guns & Liquor.

wrong button
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 7:18 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

So what was it? Badger roast? Badger Stew? Badger jerky?


I love it, this place is becoming Field And Stream with absinthe.

We gotta work on the reality a little bit though, friendly badgers and buckshot from a 30.06 is a little tough to take.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 4:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I think I'll puke.

A friendly and playful Badger? Right.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

> buckshot

Not from a 30-06 he didn't. But you still the man, Rabid.

The Bunny man coming up fast in the home stretch, though. That Badger story made me want to puke, massacre or die on the cross, I'm not sure.
Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I was trying to kill a stormrooper, of the sci-fi, non nazi, action figure variety.

I had a 30 ought 6.

I was 9.

I weighed 45 pounds.

The advice of the man who gave me the gun is still the best pick for blame.

I flew until the log stopped me. The stormtroper didn't even die. Just had some buckshot imbedded in his little stormtrooper self.
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

ok... perhaps if we build a large wooden bagder and then we ....
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

For the record, Badgers are violent, aggresive, deadly animals. They don't go into groups of humans to play.

I, however, whithold opinion.

Good imagery though, that was pretty cool!
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I actually like thread divergence. Free association conversation. Read James Joyce sometime.
Or this:
"Kill the Badger
Los Alamos Ranch School where they later made the atom bomb and couldnt wait to drop it on the yellow pearl.
The boys are sitting on logs and rocks eating some sort of food, theres a stream at the end of a slope.
The counsellor was a southerner with a politicians look about him.
He told us stories by the campfire culled from the racist garbage of the insidious Sax rumor: East is evil West is good.
Suddenly a badger erupts among the boys. Dont know why he did it, just playful, friendly, and inexperienced [like the Aztek Indians who brought fruit down to the Spanish and got their hands cut off].
So the counsellor rushes for his saddlebag and gets out his 1911 Colt 45 auto and starts blasting at the badger, missing it with every shot at 6 feet.
Finally he puts his gun 3 inches fromt he badgers side and shoots. This time, the badger rolls down the slope into the stream.
I can see the stricken animal, the sad shrinking face rolling down the slope bleeding, dying.
"You see an animal you kill it dont you? It might of bitten one of the boys."
The badger just wanted to run out and play and he gets shot with a 45 Government issue.
And ask yourself whos life is worth more: the badger or this evil piece of white shit?
As Brion Gysin once said: Man is a bad animal."
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I make love to my Beretta and Sig on alternate nights of the week and then have a three-way on the weekends. No nickel or stainless for me, like they say: "the blacker the berry..."
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

My 22 Baretta has a bent socket...It cuts my thumb when the shell ejects.

I shot a 45 Calibur Taurus once. Heavy, but fun shootin.

My Dad's thirty-O-six had some serious recoil. It knocked me down when I was 11.

How's that?
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Threads go where they will.

Get used to it.
Posted on Tuesday, June 18, 2002 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I was trying to find out stuff about Markus and Jobs, but got an eyeful of buckshot, so here ya go!

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