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Archive through June 21, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » The Monkey Hole » GUN FORUM » Archive through June 21, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Pataphysician
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I never said I was smart. I'm not a very careful reader either. But I am a WINNER!!!

Now where's my prize?
Pataphysician
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

abstemious
and
arsenious
Wolfgang
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Sorry, Wolfgang. Didn't mean to imply that you scam our fellow Forumites.
Being a hunter is bad enough... "

Dr.O, you should read posts carefully before replying. As I said at the beginning of this thread I am not a hunter because I never had the chance to hunt. Usually people become hunter following their father and mine was not a hunter so I don't have this heritage. But of course, as I previously said, I share M.D.'s views about it and maybe one day I'll go through the trouble of buying a weapon and start some serious training to eventually be able to catch my own food. I already have wilderness orientering skills, all I need is weapon and hunting skills.


Now about Wolvie, I made an official decraration when it cames out to clarify the fact that I'm not related in any way to him and his absinthes. I don't know why he use that name but I confess I don't really like this situation. It's sometimes a source of confusion. I hope it was not intentional.

Honestly, I never tasted his brew but I hope to have a glass of it in NewYork.
Chevalier
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 8:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

He said TWO more words, smart guy.
Pataphysician
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 8:29 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

abstemious

Where do I pick up my prize?
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

A hint:

Nobody in this Forum is.....
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 8:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

This thread is getting to be too serious. Time for a change.

I used the word "facetious". It's one of the words in English that have all the vowels and in the correct order.

The first person to name two more words like it gets a sample of Dr. O's best.
Chevalier
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 8:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Mogan David, my first question:

Do you enjoy the moment in your hunting when you've shot the animal and suspect/know that it has been wounded or killed?

I won't be shocked if you say yes. "Bloodlust" -- the thrill of the pursuit, the capture and dispatch of the prey -- is a (male?) human instinct. Over time, though, we've channeled that bloodlust toward other pursuits: throwing a basketball into a hoop, or a dart toward a dartboard. We shirk from choosing to kill. We don't want to find that we might enjoy it ... do we?

My second question is:

Why do you indulge your desire to kill? Why not compromise: chase the animal if you must, but shoot it with a tranquilizing dart.

Final questions:

In your opinion, should bloodlust not be taboo, since it can help humans to obtain food (fresh meat)? Is the thrill found in chasing, luring and killing ethically distasteful? Is it better that we have largely replaced it with the banality of mechanized slaughterhouses?
Mogan_David
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Actually I don't believe in guilt, it's a useless concept promoted by certain Churches as a means to control people.

Huh?
I'm sure some churches would like to claim the patent on guilt, but guilt is another thing thats built in to the human psyche and we should be very thankfull for it. It helps to shape our characters and show us when we've done wrong.

Curches have a way of making people feel guilty for things beyond their control, and this I would agree is useless and harmfull.

There is a name for people without guilt, they are commonly refered to as sociopaths.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Pikkle,

Actually I don't believe in guilt, it's a useless concept promoted by certain Churches as a means to control people.

Oh and if that is a spaceship you see then I think you had better get in it and go back home.

Hobgoblin
Pikkle
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

And remember dear Hobby... no one is responsible for your feelings but you... so don't go laying that guilt shit on anyone about killing themselves for you, you feel however you like but only because it's your choice... ooh... is that a space ship I see??? Where's my fucking tennis shoes...
Pikkle
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

ooh... I forgot how much I miss tofu and sprouts... just like mom used to make us laugh at...
Mogan_David
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Pikkle,

You're just jealous cause LH didn't invite you to our feast.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Mogan David can kill for himself if he likes but if he kills especially for me then that means I've played a part in the killing and I believe this would be morally wrong for ME.

Perhaps this is just too much for your gherkin brain to comprehend?
Pikkle
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:26 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

yeah, like the pork tenderloin just showed up... magically... that's the way I like it too... none of this messy killing stuff... ew.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Or maybe the day when we can have basil and lemongrass with wild pork tenderloin."

So long as you had the pork tenderloin anyway and didn't kill it especially for me to cook it, I'd be more than happy to cook it for you.

Hobgoblin
Pikkle
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

mmm... yummy flesh... mmmm...
Mogan_David
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:17 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Don't we all dream of the day when the lion can lie with the lamb...

Or maybe the day when we can have basil and lemongrass with wild pork tenderloin. (My keyboard is about to short out from the saliva driping on it.)

MD
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:17 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"I suspect that most of the meat eating world would feel unsatisfied if forced to eat only vegtables."

Yes indeed people would certainly feel unsatisfied if forced to eat something. I would feel unsatisfied if forced to eat something. But if people choose to eat, or not to eat, something then they will rarely feel unsatisfied because of it.

Therefore I have no desire to force-feed you with brussel sprouts.

As for morality, people should look to sort out their own morality rather than try to sort out the morality of others. If a person has the time to be overly concerned about the morality of others then he/she must indeed have his/her own morality 100% in order. In which case we should all fall to our knees and worship such a person.

Hobgoblin
Pikkle
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

You say it brother! Don't spray it...
Mogan_David
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:06 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

LH,

> I do not lie in bed dreaming longingly of barbequed ribs or roast chicken any more than you dream of basil and lemongrass, green bean curry.

I didn't dream of those things until just now.

I guess it may be a bit unfair to project my feelings and love of eating meat on all people. I will say that those statements would very much apply to me if I were to quit eating meat. I suspect that most of the meat eating world would feel unsatisfied if forced to eat only vegtables.

I guess the point that I am trying to make is that we (many of us) are wired up a certain way, and it's just as unfair to assign the high moral ground vegans as it is to hetrosexuals. You should eat/screw what you like depending on how you are wired up. It is neither moral or immoral to do so.
Pikkle
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Kill a plant, kill an animal, six of one, half dozen of another... do what you like, that's all it's about.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 6:54 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Mogan David,

You're entirely wrong in your assertion that people will not have pleasant, satisfying lives if they do not eat meat. I do not eat meat, I enjoy food, I am satisfied with what I eat and I live a happy satisfying life. I do not lie in bed dreaming longingly of barbequed ribs or roast chicken any more than you dream of basil and lemongrass, green bean curry.

It is certainly not my place to moralise to meat-eaters, I'm married to one, practically all my friends are meat-eaters and I'll happily prepare, cook and serve them up meat dishes but I certainly do not feel unsatisfied because I don't eat meat.

Yes our bodies are designed to be able to cope with eating practically anything (except grass) and this certainly has been to our evolutionary advantage. The more things you can eat the less likelihood you will have of dying of starvation. But that is a very different thing from saying that just because our bodies are designed to be able to eat meat it follows that our bodies need to consume meat. Since very few of us (in the West anyway) are likely to face starvation, the ability of our bodies to consume a wide range of foods is not necessary to our survival.

While it is not right for vegetarians to go about preaching to meat-eaters that they are committing an immoral act it is EQUALLY wrong for meat-eaters to go about telling vegetarians that they are living unnaturally. Vegetarians are not entitled to claim the 'moral high-ground' but neither are you entitled to claim the 'natural high-ground'.

Live and let live. Why have you got this thing against vegetarians? JUST LET US EAT OUR FUCKING VEGETABLES IN PEACE!

Hobgoblin
Mogan_David
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 6:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr. O

>Immediately a bunch of people volunteered. A bunch of people wanted to kill another human being! Some of them, I bet, would have paid for the pleasure.

So this is how you see hunters? You haven't read anything I've posted?

At some point in time you are going to need to come to terms with your own humanity. Whether you are a vegan or eat meat daily, the human body was made for consuming some meat.
How do you see other predators? Lions, tigers, birds of prey, are these evil animals. Do you think they kill because they get off on killing? Are those animals in any more evil than the animals that they eat?

I know what's comming next. You are going to say that people are different because we have a choice. Do we really? Isn't that kind of like saying a guy has a choice about whether or not he is going to be a homosexual? The choice to eat meat is built in to humanity, you can choose to supress it, just as a homosexual can choose to get maried and have kids. It just doesn't make for a very pleasant or satisfying life.

As humans, we simply are what we are there is no right or wrong to that. If you want to talk about the wastefull killing of animals, we will agree all day long. Simply hunting and eating the kill is just a part of life. It's about being in touch with who you are as a human being.

You can and should assign morality to hunters, but it should be about having some compassion for the animals, treating the natural environment with respect and not wasting the precious food that came from God's own animals. The simple act of hunting is not imorral.

MD
Perruche_Verte
Posted on Friday, June 21, 2002 - 6:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I read about that -- they claim the guide just shouted "Bird!" or the equivalent in Swahili, and William shot without looking... dumb.

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