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FORUM EFFLUVIA!

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » Strictly Absinthe & Collectibles » Archive Thru July 2002 » FORUM EFFLUVIA! « Previous Next »

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Archive through June 30, 2002Oxygenee25 6-30-02  8:23 pm
Archive through July 03, 2002Bunnylebowski25 7-3-02  11:17 am
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Chevalier
Posted on Monday, July 8, 2002 - 8:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Also, [the impact on the Calvinist tradition on American culture includes] self-discipline, contemporary ideals of love and marriage, and the underpinnings of capitalism."

I'm tired of Calvinism receiving the credit for "the underpinnings of capitalism". Calvin (and Luther before him) complained openly about the selfishness of their day's capitalism. Centuries before "the Calvinist tradition", Florence and Venice -- CATHOLIC city-states both -- had given rise to the banks and trading companies that were the true "underpinnings of capitalism", American or otherwise.
Pikkle
Posted on Sunday, July 7, 2002 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

So there is a tomorrow? I'd better rethink that will...
Chrysippvs
Posted on Sunday, July 7, 2002 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have always liked the visage of Calvinism, although theological, it is gnostic.

- J
Pikkle
Posted on Sunday, July 7, 2002 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't know, I just dig those Goth bitches like there's no tomorrow...
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Sunday, July 7, 2002 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bah!

Goths are as Calvinist as my left ass cheek, which has stated, formally and on the record:

"WBAAWFSD FGFFRGDXZDaFSDGHYGFX"

It can't type so good.
Anatomist
Posted on Sunday, July 7, 2002 - 6:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"...the impact on the Calvinist tradition on American culture cannot be overlooked. Whatever its virtues, it cast a significantly anti-carnal, anti-sexual, ant-PLEASURE shadow over American morality which has yet to fully lift."

Also, self-discipline, contemporary ideals of love and marriage, and the underpinnings of capitalism. The kind of brooding, melancholy, gloom-and-doominess beloved of goths and many absintheurs is very old-time Calvinist in character as well. Nothing is simple.

K.
_Blackjack
Posted on Sunday, July 7, 2002 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, the only two Quaker president's we've had were Hoover and Nixon, not the benchmarks of liberalism, but generally speaking, the Quakers in the US are a lot like the Unitarian Universalists, but without the coffee and donuts. They are, for want of a better term, barely a religion at all.

However, the impact on the Calvinist tradition on American culture cannot be overlooked. Whatever its virtues, it cast a significantly anti-carnal, anti-sexual, ant-PLEASURE shadow over American morality which has yet to fully lift.
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Sunday, July 7, 2002 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The evangelical Presbyterians over here
are more like the original Presbyterians.

They broke away from the First Pres. folks
when that business all started.

My mom could tell y'all about it.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, July 7, 2002 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Over here dyslexic Quakers make great crispy cheese flavoured potato snacks called Quavers.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, July 7, 2002 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bunny,

We obviously have a different breed of Presbyterians on this side of the pond. When I was a student there was a gay rights meeting at the University. Presbyterians (ministers and lay people alike) picketed the meeting holding placards which said "Save us from sodomy" etc. Presbyterians over here are staunch Calvinist conservatives. They believe gay people are an abomination, that the Pope is the anti-Christ and that all people who are not Protestants are doomed to an eternity in the fires of hell. It will be a very long time before they ordain gay Presbyterian ministers (at least openly gay ones anyway) over here (although the Anglicans do).

Hobgoblin
Pikkle
Posted on Wednesday, July 3, 2002 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Quakers make them great oats too!
Bunnylebowski
Posted on Wednesday, July 3, 2002 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

American Presbyterians are very liberal. They ordain gay priests (even in the south!) and are generally pro choice.
I'd say they're more liberal than Quakers. I'm not sure what a congregationlist is either.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Wednesday, July 3, 2002 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"But this had little to do with tolerance as a religious virtue, and much to do with an innate, despicably English disdain for Ireland."

I wouldn't entirely agree with this. Cromwell's war just another part of the wide ranging religious war between Catholics and Protestants across Europe following the Reformation in the 16th Century. The whole of the 16th century, and early 17th century, in Europe was taken up by attrocious, bloody, religious wars. Catholics oppressed and tried to wipe out Protestants, Protestants oppressed and tried to wipe out Catholics. Cromwell's war in Ireland was very much a religious war. God's blessing was called upon before every living thing in Irish Catholic towns was put to the sword by Cromwell and his God-fearing Protestants. It was all done in God's name (as the Orange Order makes a point of reminding us as they march, with police and army protection, through Catholic parts of Northern Ireland).

Hobgoblin
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Wednesday, July 3, 2002 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Quakers, Congregationalists, and Presbyterians - are among the most liberal, civil, and free-thinking sects of Christianity ever"

Quakers most definitely are liberal, civil and tolerant, I've never met any Congregationalists but I'll take your word for it, Methodists too are a decent bunch, BUT PRESBYTERIANS!!! Ian Paisley and his cronies are Presbyterian. Presbyterianism is tolerant of you so long as you are not a Roman Catholic (or indeed anything other than Protestant). As someone who grew up (as a Catholic) in a mainly Presbyterian part of Ireland I'd rather walk into a bar full of Anglicans than a bar full of Presbyterians (drinking orange juice of course) any day.

Hobgoblin

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