Topics Topics Edit Profile Profile Help/Instructions Help Member List Member List Edit Profile Register  
Search Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  

Archive through June 30, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » Strictly Absinthe & Collectibles » Archive Thru July 2002 » FORUM EFFLUVIA! » Archive through June 30, 2002 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Oxygenee
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

For those not following this scintillating exchange in real time, Anatomist just edited his previous post by:
1. Adding a sentence criticizing an obvious typo in my post.
2. Correcting "Stunk and White" to "Strunk and White" in his post.

One has to smile.
Oxygenee
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Clearly, living in a colony so remote from civilisation and mother England, has addled Anatomist's brain. The heat and the poor quality local liquor probably don't help either.
Anatomist
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The euro-fops over at OED can kiss my star spangled ass. We speak and write according to Webster, Strunk and White over here, son.

The fact that you closed with this... "On principle he tend to support left-wing causes." That pretty much speaks for itself.

K.
Oxygenee
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 7:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"On principle" is perfectly correct, and has been used in English for several hundred years (perhaps not in Texas....). Its use is specifically recorded and sanctioned by the Oxford English Dictionary (3rd Ed, 1973).

"Principle" has three primary sets of meanings, which, simplified, are:
1. Origin,source,general sense
2. Fundamental truth or motive
3. Rudiment or element

"In principle" relates to the first meaning, "on principle" relates to the second.

The two phrases mean entirely different things and are not substitutes for one another: IN PRINCIPLE means "in a general (or fundamental) sense", while ON PRINCIPLE means "as a matter of moral (or conscientious) principle".

In principle Hobgoblin's grammar is quite good. On principle he tends to support left-wing causes.
Traineraz
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

After reviewing this nit-picky thread, I am inspired to quote the great Roseanne Barr:


Quote:

Bitch, bitch, bitch. That's all you ever are.


Anatomist
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

REMEMBER THE ALAMO, MOTHERFUCKERS!

texas
Anatomist
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

'On' just doesn't go with principle, unless "the subject of" is implied to be in between. For instance, "On Principle: A history of the misuse of participle phrases with containing the word." In LH's sentence the phrase 'on principle' is peculiar, and grates on the ear. I dispute that it would have a similar, though technically different application from 'in principle'. It is simply a misused participle, such as in the phrases 'on accident' or 'all of the sudden'.

Unfortunately, the sentence is incorrectly formulated in a more fundamental way.

"A participle phrase at the beginning of a sentence must refer to the grammatical subject."
-Strunk and White, Elementary Rules of Useage #11

In this case that would make LH himself 'on principle'. Unless principle were an object upon which he could perch, it comes out as nonsense. The subject and the word occupying the place of 'principle' in this sentence must correlate such that the one can be ON the other. For instance: "On Venus, I refuse to be pleased." is fine. "On principle, the textbook had little to say." is also good. As used, however, the sentence is gibberish.

K.
Alphasoixante
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"In principle, I refuse to be pleased."

as a matter of principle, don't get advice from texans on points of grammar. i think you were right the first time. "in principle" is in contrast to "in practice". I assume you wish to say that you ARE, in practice, refusing to be pleased, so "in principle" doesn't fit here. "On principle" works fine in the context you're using. It stresses that the action is not arbitrary or contingent, but in accordance with a principle of activity.
Bunnylebowski
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

:)
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

OK then,

In principle, I refuse to be pleased.

or would you rather have

I refuse, in principle, to be pleased.

For God's sake! I never knew Texans were so fussy about grammar.

Hobgoblin
Anatomist
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"ON principle"? If you can't be pleased, couldn't you at least be literate?

K.
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Fiber, anyone?
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

On principle, I refuse to be pleased.

Hobgoblin
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Can't please anyone can we?
Artemis
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Personally, I'm not going to start any more threads anywhere else but in the monkey hole.

Ever.

And if you want to lower the bar even further, I'll try my best to limbo down.
Admin
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 7:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm such a mean drunk.

ow. mornin'
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 7:01 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

It's like you stuck a dildo up their
asses. Look at 'em squirm.
Admin
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

bah!

I'll stick it, or others will stick it, where I/they think it should go at the moment. why worry?

it's just a goddamn thread.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There you go, there will never be an agreement on this. I view philosophy, religion and politics as belonging in the same bag. They're all based on theories and ideals, they very often overlap and intertwine, are sometimes extremely difficult to seperate and they all have a tendency to result in heated discussion.

Where do you stick a discussion on Marx? Is it politics or philosophy? What about discussions on the Islamic fundamentalism or on Zionism? Religion or politics? A discussion on right and wrong? Philosophy or Religion?

If you really don't want this sort of thing on the 'arts and philosophical sundries' section then you'll have to create another section for 'Philosophy, Religion and Politics'. Or just accept that people will post on any section anything that in their view belongs there.

Hobgoblin
Admin
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

religion mebbe, but not politics. that definately belongs in the monkey hole.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"One man's "arts and philosophical sundries" is another man's monkey hole, I guess"

Indeed. Where do we stick political and religious argument threads? I'd stick them under "arts and philosophical sundries". Unless you create a category for politics, philosophy and religion.

Hobgoblin
Admin
Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

but "Monkey Hole" is festive! It's all inclusive! it's non-desciminatory!

and, it's what i wanted to name Marc's bar ...
Bob_Chong
Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Monkey Hole"? I'd think that for something that sees so much posting, you could come up with something more interesting or descriptive. One man's "arts and philosophical sundries" is another man's monkey hole, I guess.
Admin
Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

ok, I moved all the current June threads into the three categories. in a semi-arbitrary manner. I just went by the title and what I *thought* the thread was on. I'll get 'em shuffled about as we go along ...
Admin
Posted on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

or,

THE RIVER OF SNOT!

(or such as navigating the forum has become)

with so many folks in New York, I thought this would be a good time to implement some changes. please bare with me for a bit while I shuffle things about.

I'm breaking up the absinthe forum into three catagories or subtopics:

* Strictly Absinthe & Collectibles

* Arts & Other Philosophical Sundries

* The Monkey Hole (if you must, do it in here)

I request that when starting new threads, please pick the topic that is closest to your subject. Due to the organic nature of the forum, I of course won't require that the thread *remains* on topic once it has started to veer. we might, however, suggest you move the subject over if it gets too involved, or we might move it seperately and start a new topic ourselves. Threads that are started in the wrong Topic will be moved.

Administration Administration Log Out Log Out   Previous Page Previous Page Next Page Next Page