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Archive through July 18, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » Arts & Other Philosophical Sundries » test » FILM FORUM » Archive through July 18, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Admin
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

but I'll admit, add 80 years to a battle and I'm apt to find it more enticing from an historical perspective.
Admin
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I, for the most part, hate all war films.

they're like films about football.

I am an utter girl when it comes to this.

I'd take LIQUID SKY any day over BLACK RYAN HAWKS DOWN.

"This pussy has teeth, no one should fuck me ever." - Margaret
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is a great war movie.

There's a Russian film called COME AND SEE, directed by Elem Klimov, that is extraordinarily well done and moving. There are scenes in this film that capture the horrible insanity of war in such a way as to haunt you for days.
Pataphysician
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Paths Of Glory" -- best damn war movie.
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"The slob ethic is alive and well"

The epitome of an elitist statement. I rest my case...
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You're so easy Marc... Captain Obvious strikes again!
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

attempting to discuss a film in detail makes me elitist? Its that kind of thinking that keeps these forums from evolving. The slob ethic is alive and well, thanks to bozos like pikkle. keep up the good work asswipe. "helicopters are cool".

another thread goes to hell.
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 6:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You forgot about the elitist element on this forum... and yes, helicopters are cool!
Nascentvirion
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Damn , one mention of some fucking helicopters sends people into a frenzy. I never said helicopters out did human suffering....
Admin
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

WHAM! BIFF! POW!
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"as usual, you have to resort to snide comments when you've run out of ideas."


"Man, you're a fucking numbskull."


Yeah, okay there fucko...
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"enjoy your world Marc, it is your own"


pikkle,

as usual, you have to resort to snide comments when you've run out of ideas.

My criticism of BLACK HAWK DOWN is not some hippie rant. I judged the movie as a movie.
And I'm not the only one to find serious flaws with the film.
Pataphysician
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 7:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ah, yes, that ancient rivalry: The Steelworker and the Hippie.
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 5:59 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

to each his own then... enjoy your world Marc, it is your own...
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

pikkle,

I don't want any "overwrought slobbering characters".
I want the director and actors to attempt to create genuine
human beings, not cardboard stereotypes. I cannot remember a single character or actor from the movie, other than Sam Shepard. And thats only because I admire him. Otherwise, the film was populated by faceless cliches.

I read the book BLACK HAWK DOWN. Mark Bowden (the author) managed to make the events in Mogadishu and the people involved very real to me. The movie did not.

My helicoptor comment was in response to nav's statement that BLACK HAWK DOWN's copter scenes were the best since
APOCALYPSE NOW. Whoopdeefuckingdoo. Makes my point: its all about sensation, video game consciousness. When helicoptors upstage human suffering, we got a problem.

pikkle,
I'm not trying to be cool. This is a film forum. I thought the idea was to discuss film.

the ten second crummy video of the soldier's body being dragged through the streets was devastating because it was real. And you've made my point.
The movie BLACK HAWK DOWN was too slick to manage to recreate the intensity of the crummy video you refer to. 2 1/2 hours and close to $100 million
couldn't replicate the power of a grimy video documenting the actual event. Why make a movie on the subject if you can't bring something new to the mix. Some insight. Some feeling. Ridley Scott exploited a tragedy in an effort to get an audience's rocks off. To make money. To win awards.
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 2:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Never the less, the movie depicts an actual event... how many fucking overwrought slobbering character portrayals do you think we need?
I remember when this thing actually happened but new very little of the implications... one thing that still stands out in my mind is the video of the Somalis dragging around the naked U.S. soldier through the dusty streets of Mogadishu. I had no clue what it was all about at the time, I had no idea who the man was, I knew nothing of his character, his back ground, his likes or his dislikes, all I knew is that this guy was dead and the circumstance surrounding his death weren't all that pleasant and I felt much sadness and had much empathy for him. I was able to derive all of this from a crummy video shot from a helicoptor and shown in ten second news bites on CNN. It most definitely didn't have to be spelled out to me how to feel. It's a shame that after having watched a two and a half hour film depicting an actual tragedy that you probably knew almost nothing about all you got out of it was the some cool shots of helicoptors and and some funky editing. You're way too fucking cool for any of us Marc!
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 2:01 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

we're discussing a movie, not the actual event.
Man, you're a fucking numbskull.
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm sure that's the same thing the participants in the actual event were concerned about too...
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

pikkle,

the scenes you mention didn't move me because I didn't know or care about the characters. Ridley Scott reduces everything in BLACK HAWK DOWN
to a series of striking images that signify nothing. It seems that after SAVING PRIVATE RYAN,
every war film is attempting to up the ante in depicting the gore of war. But, none of it matters if you don't feel some empathy with the people being slaughtered. In BLACK HAWK DOWN, the aesthetics of the film put me at a distance from
the film's dramatic intent. I was constantly aware
of the cinematography, musical score and editing
of the film, not the agony it was depicting.
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh yeah, and the shot of the interior of that Hummer after they pulled back into base, you know the one with all the pieces of head splattered all over, I could hear Stephen Tyler wailing in the background for GM in that scene!
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 1:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yeah, I thought that it was beautifully shot the way one man sticks his hand up another man's thigh to try to retrieve his femural artery... then the guy dies. Ridley Scott sure sugar coated that scene, the little bitch!
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

BLACK HAWK DOWN was technically brilliant, but heartless. Yes, I want to feel something when young men are slaughtered. Yes, I want to understand what motivates both sides of the battle. War is more than beautifully composed shots of mayhem and elaborate set design. I could give a shit about how artfully photographed the helicopters were. Rub the stench of death in my face. Don't give me a Mitsubishi commercial with cute soldiers in the place of techno divas doing wild style break dancing.
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

BTW, I'm at work... so no, as far as you know, I'm not the one who's drinking... yet.

And as far as Black Hawk Down, it is probably one of the best examples of that genre of film I have seen in a long time. It was about a very delicate and complex event, it did little to glorify and it told the story, in my opinion with very little if any embellishment for the sake of dramatization. Did it make you want to care about any of the characters? Were you supposed to? That wasn't the point... some people missed that I guess.
Marccampbell
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 1:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm drinking. Thats my point.
Pikkle
Posted on Thursday, July 18, 2002 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yeah, and what's your point?

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