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Archive through July 24, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » The Monkey Hole » The rain » Archive through July 24, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Pikkle
Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 5:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yeah... it's so much fun making your fortune when you're too old to enjoy it!
Quite on the serious side though, I've seen too many times men put in their thirty, thirty-five, forty years, retire with plans to kick back, travel, enjoy the grandkids, whatever and six months later they're dead. I wish I could say it was the exception but more often than not, it's the rule. I've known of guys who haven't even gotten their first pension check and bam, they're gone.
I don't know what it is, the environment, lack of purpose, unhealthy living... just seems too regular to be just a coincidence.
So when you say "when he retire" it's just not going to happen...
Wolfgang
Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 5:01 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Or maybe he should just collect pictures like that for years and do something with it when he retire.
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 12:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Pikkle- you should do something with this... if only so these guys that give their health, their time, everything to the sucking void of your steelmill do not go unnoticed.

Of course, first you should get another job, because I am imagining the arch-fiends in charge would not be thrilled at such an exposure of their pit.
Pikkle
Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Behind that door? Ha... what is behind every door? Nothing until you open it...
Actually, it's a sink/cupboard, just undignified enough to fit half a person inside... steel mills aren't known to well for their amenities.
Nolamour
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

SO, what's inside the door behind the guy that will pee in your bed? It looks as if he is positioned comfortably in front of the john.

Damn right you're a snapper!
Pikkle
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Does that mean I'm a snapper???
Louched_Liver
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Keep snappin' Pikkle, your shit is tight.

Buh bye now, Marcykins. Hear from ya when you get nestled in.
Marc
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm off to Taos. See you all in a week or so.

Peace, Marc
Marc
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

pikkle,

just keep doing it. I'm worried that if you become too self-conscious about your photography
you'll blow it. It seems you have a knack for capturing something magic on film. Just keep doing it.
Pataphysician
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 1:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, there's lots of photographers who had no artistic intentions, but whose work is recognized as Art anyway. You can't choose how it will be regarded, once you get it out there. Which you should. I would say as a certified Art Expert™ that it looks like art to me.
Pikkle
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Someone talking about me?

It's better to be talked badly about than not at all I guess...

These photos were never taken for artful purposes or intended to portray any type of artistic sense, they were merely captured because there were places and moments I may have at some point down the line wished to be able to better recollect, both dreadful and beautiful... yes, the lines are off, no I did not crop them well enough, blah, blah. I am not a photographer. I am not an artist. I'm not techinically adept in this skill. I do it because I enjoy it for whatever it's worth. Unlike making steel.

Uh-oh, something's eating my house...
Barsnake
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Powerful pix -
Pataphysician
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, I agree Anat: with some minor tweeking Pikkle could get the landscapes to look like other photos I've seen. But I'm more interested in those first 3 photos. They're showing me something new. Well actually, those subjects are not new to me, I worked in a huge old industrial flour mill for a year-and-a-half and it was a similar scene, but I've never seen that in art, not in that way with that kind of intimacy. That's what I want in art: show me something I didn't know before, or show me something I know but in a new way.

"Plenty of people misspell words and use confusing, mixed up grammar in the real world, does it follow that novels and poems should be presented with such errors?"

Yes.

But follow the rules or break them for a purpose, not capriciously. I think in this case if Pikkle tried to "aestheticize" them it could deaden the images.
Marc
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I think when and if pikkle decides to publish these photos, feedback like anatomist's will be forthcoming and valuable. It happens all the time. Even with the best artists.
Anatomist
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Pata,

With the landscapes, some are straight and some are slightly crooked. It doesn't look disorienting to me, and it doesn't look deliberate, it just looks like a common amatuerish mistake. If you want disorienting, I'd make em all crooked.

K.
Anatomist
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"if I were to present them formally, I'd make them all nice and symmetrical to suit everyone's idea of a perfect, right angled world"

This is silly. Plenty of people misspell words and use confusing, mixed up grammar in the real world, does it follow that novels and poems should be presented with such errors? There are craftsmanship issues associated with any art media. Often things that are deemed 'rules' got that way for a reason. An artist is free to violate them, but if it seems to have been done out of haste or inattention to detail/presentation it detracts from the work.

Also, aren't these photos being presented to the public right now? You should expect critique as well as praise.

K.
Pataphysician
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Don't pretty 'em up. That first one is the best because it's so disorienting. If you arrange the lines too nicely and make it too symmetrical you're in danger of making them look like a corporate brochure. Especially when it's a broad, depopulated vista like that. I think the most pertinent things are the shots of the men in the machinery. Most Americans probably think we don't have steelmills anymore, or if we do, they are run entirely by high-tech robots.

And you should definitely integrate your prose somehow. Regardless of what Hobgoblin says, language and art can play together quite nicely. I think there's some great shit goin' on there.
Wolfgang
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The look in their eyes is what's so amazing in those pictures. What's priceless is I really doubt an outsider photograph would be able to capture it. The photograph being one of them, they probably just don't give a fuck.
Pikkle
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 7:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

It's worse than prison in a way... at least in prison you know you won't be leaving for a while, you have nothing to look forward to and you can just get on with life the way you know it's going to be... In the mill, the contrast between your regular normal life and what goes on inside these little industrial nightmares would confuse anyone. You've got to put on a face for work and a face for home and a lot of guys just blur the two together and the mill eventually wins out... the divorce rate is sky high, those who are chemically dependant are in the majority and many of these people, I'm sorry to say would not be able to function in a "normal" occupation as we know it... perhaps it was the occupation that did it to them in the first place.
Baz
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 7:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The look in their eyes is identical to the look in people's eyes when they've been in prison for a while. Sort of spooky to a stranger. Tired, resigned, but still with a fuck you I'm in my world type of attitude.
Pikkle
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 7:11 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

And this man will pee in your bed!
He peed in mine!
Pikkle
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 7:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Now any more dissent, and this man comes for you!
biggiesmalls
And yes, for the sake of art (and decency) I cropped out most of his girth...
Baz
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 7:05 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bravo, Pikkle.

And art is (as always) in the eye of the beholder.
Pikkle
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 6:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Not much you can do about alignment without a tripod while sitting along side a running truck when it's 15 below out... and the choice of positioning is limited by heavy moving equipment and hot iron... these were never taken for public consumption... besides, if I were to present them formally, I'd make them all nice and symmetrical to suit everyone's idea of a perfect, right angled world... I'm not a photographer, I'm a steelworker... no, I don't have an apochromatic lens and yes, there is some vignetting (along with above mentioned flaws) but for a guy who just got off working a 16 hour shift and happened to drag his camera along one or two days for the fuck of it, especially when it could cost him his job to do so, it doesn't really matter... but thanks for the help anyway.
(Why not take the moors out all together?)
Anatomist
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 6:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ok, that was the gedanken-example. Now, for the imagination-deficient:

original

cropped

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