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Happy bomb day

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » The Monkey Hole » Happy bomb day « Previous Next »

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Pikkle
Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 10:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

not just know it but understand the implications of it... the dates are taught just fine, it's the reasons why some of it should never be repeated that fails to make it to the minds of our sweet little seed corn. I blame the British myself.
Luisa
Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I know what you mean. I remember the day Pablo Escobar was shot. First, they shot him 300 times (or 70, I don´t remember well) -all Colombian police and some DEA they say-. His mother was downstairs watching them chasing him on the rooftops, until they got him. You can't imagine the rage and hate, and pure satisfaction that these guys felt ...next thing they're showing, pictures of the body, totally disfigured, surrounded by police, etc. all smiling ... reminded me of T.Roosevelt and the rhinos... Let us not forget that our police officers are 17 years old ... I don´t know. I have mixed feelings about the whole drug war. First, I think it´s so stupidly run ... but I don´t know if the topic interests you.

Still, people need to know their history man.
Skee
Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 6:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

while I am in no way an expert on the subject I have been to Hiroshima and found two things that stand out, First not one U.S. president has ever been to the peace park in Hiroshima and 2nd in the museum It states that Japan was feverishly working on their own atomic bomb at the time we dropped ours.
Pikkle
Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 5:29 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Kind of like lawmen getting their pictures taken next to the corpse of the criminal they'd just shot down... you know, for posterity's sake.
Luisa
Posted on Monday, August 12, 2002 - 5:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey, I'm sorry to bring some lightness but I just had to say ... I have a beautiful view of Iwo Jima Memorial, and can't stop staring at the tourists -of all nationalities- repeat, all nationalities, getting their pictures taken there. I know, I know, don't take me the wrong way because you have this discussion in some other thread. I am an inmigrant too. It's just that people are sometimes very unaware of their history.
Perruche_Verte
Posted on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"...I'm of a mind that the US at least BELIEVED the Japanese weren't close to surrender before the bombs."

The overtures were made. Perhaps not taken seriously by the right people. I realize it's a mistake to try to personify governments and refer to them in the singular, e.g. "the US" or "Japan", because policy is so often made by compromise between competing factions.

But the fact that such contingency plans existed somewhere doesn't surprise me. The military simply would be doing their job in preparing for the worst. There may have been cultural misunderstanding at work also. I suspect that some of the themes of our wartime propaganda, the stuff that depicted the Japanese as vicious, inscrutable robot-devils, really were believed to some degree by various high-ranking persons. The kamikaze attacks late in the war certainly would have strengthened such a point of view.

So it all goes into the planning. "Hmmm, suppose they really WILL fight to the last man and commit mass suicide before surrendering the emperor... how to dispose of the bodies... throw me those Lucky Strikes, Jim."
_Blackjack
Posted on Thursday, August 8, 2002 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Whether or not they were ready to surrender will be one of the great questions in history. I don't think we'll ever know for sure. However, there were plans in place for several contingencies (including the use of chemical weapons) if the a-bombs didn't produce surrender, so I'm of a mind that the US at least BELIEVED the Japanese weren't close to surrender before the bombs.

To keep some perspective tho, the 200,000 who died (and that is a high estimate) from our a-bombs are a drop in the bucket compared to the 3-4 million Chinese civilians killed by the Japanese between '37 and '45. Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki may not have been right, but it was certainly less wrong than what the Japanese had done.
Perruche_Verte
Posted on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

They were ready to surrender. They wanted a couple of conditions, the big one being a guarantee that Hirohito could remain emperor. But we had to go and do it anyway, largely so that the Soviets could see that we had it.
_Blackjack
Posted on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, the conventional rationalle was that, had we been forced to invade Japan, probably 5 million Japanese civilians would have died in the ensuing chaos, mostly from disease and starvation.

I'm not justifying it, mind you, but that was how they viewed it at the time. Keep in mind that the Japanese DID attack the US...

...to protect their oil supply...

...nothing changes...
Alphasoixante
Posted on Wednesday, August 7, 2002 - 6:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

here's the unofficial definition of terrorism used by the u.s. government:

"Premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience."

lucky us, it only applies to "subnationals" not states. we're home-free folks. happy bomb day!

first bomb: 130,000 or 43 world trade centers.

second bomb (SECOND mind you, since the first one was so ineffective): 70,000 or 23 world trade centers.

total score: 66 world trade centers.
not that it's a contest.
but if it were, it's obvious who would win.
no one.
Alphasoixante
Posted on Tuesday, August 6, 2002 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/peacesite/English/Stage3/S3-2E.html

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