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Archive through September 04, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » Strictly Absinthe & Collectibles » Boston: Wine, Cheese, Live Music + » Archive through September 04, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Posted on Wednesday, September 4, 2002 - 7:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with discussing absinthe-related commerce here, it's just that what you're offering is really dumb. Moreover, this is WAY the wrong audience for it. Everybody here knows that if they want Deva they can just get online with their credit card and they've got some in a few days. You're insulting their intelligence.
Posted on Wednesday, September 4, 2002 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


Just checked out "Venus Lounge" and I can see how it fits with your atitude. I can't say that it is not a place that might not be considered the finest of it's kind...but

Your attitude would say that Vegas has just two bars mine Venus and the place like mine trying to be almost the same but it will never be as good.

You will probably get stitches that my family knew the person the plainest place in Vegas is named for but which is bigger with the local Las Vegans trying to see each other. "Venus is for a special night but every night? He thinks every other place in town should close down!?"

Good luck in Taos from what I hear about the town these days you will fit in.
Posted on Wednesday, September 4, 2002 - 2:26 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, everything else aside, Don and Pikkle sure would be good ones to help this poor guy out (*grin*).

Posted on Wednesday, September 4, 2002 - 2:04 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There are two approaches to a category website. One is to go for the category in all it's forms and the other is to try to limit solely to discussions of high end.

If you go to the houses of the families with the most prizes for rum and look what high proof rum they pour into Coke it isn't their top product. Premium they save for sipping neat from a shot glass. On top of that they are outsold 10:1 by Bacardi. Aged and premium is a miniscule part of the market.

In a market where most people do not drink the category at all it is pointless IMHO to evangelize solely on the basis of product that most people where it is and has always been available do NOT drink. It is like limiting a forum on Khat to which Ethiopian village produces the best four star instead of why use Khat at all both discussions have their place.

Kallisti, I did contact you and was disappointed you did not reply. Looking at the archive of posts I don't see previous limitation of the forum to product over four stars. In fact need I quote what you have written or edited back to you about Deva? It seems like a policy change, or time to update your sites' vendor reference. If you require compensation to offer glasses, spoons or in my case services you have my e-address. If I posted about say...timeshares it would be spam. Of course you have the right to exclude me if you wish it is your site.


As for Taos my family's connection with the town was when my grandmother was a friend of Mabel Dodge Lujan and Willa Cather and they lunched at each others houses. When my grandfather argued politics with D. H. Lawrence. My grandfathers business partner's nephew was the man who recovered Blue Mountain Lake for the Indians. Taos has degenerated into a pricey tourist trap, should it surprise me you are there.

This anecdote is about a drover who may have had some connection to Las Vegas..."When the party eventually arrived in Yuma on January 28th 1912 the old frontiersman, Charles Meadows, (who he had known 14 years as fellow miner and cattleman) was so impressed with the exploit that he introduced B___ in evey saloon in town as "the only white man who had ever brought three women and two children down the river from Needles without any of them getting drowned." The hero of the occasion got so many free drinks that Charlie had to help him navigate back to camp, and it took the combined efforts of all three women to get him to bed"...I wonder which single malt they were drinking. Not to say that the local settlers had no discernment among the 25c a bottle.

On the other hand I would not be surprised if single malts were what my grandfather drank with Edwin Booth in New York at the Players Club where my greatgrandfather was a member.
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Damn, he's using WebTV. That may explain the whole lot of it.
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

WHO is this guy??!!
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


right on!
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lmarch ...

First off, I don't remember any requests or personal correspondence from you, then again, I have been away and distracted quite a bit for the past few months.

That said, to assume that my lack of response was acquiescence is pushing it. Or, if I did agree to something, my brain is indeed a sieve, I give up ...

Now, what the hell are you talking about again? Whatever it is, I think you are addressing the wrong crowd, and using my forum to push your $$$ making agenda. We don't like spam.
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Give them mixers so they can't taste the absinthe? They are there for what then, exactly?
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


as someone who has designed and owned bars in New York City and Las Vegas, I do know what a cocktail is. If you're in Vegas, stop by Venus in the Venetian Hotel and Casino. I designed it.
If you're in New York City, please visit the Rodeo
Bar. Also my design. I am currently working on a nightspot in Taos. I'll keep you up-to-date.
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

So you Marc have never heard of a cocktail. Great idea, lets see how small in number we can make the audience and participants for this forum. Let's limit all board discussions to product people can't afford. Better yet or can't buy because not only is it louchy yellow green and legally gray it's vapor.

Does it taste good, does it give a nice effect, does it complement the conversation. These are the important questions. We have had what we have had often enough to know the answer to these questions for ourselves. Sure we will try other brands no doubt but not to satisfy a Las Vegas put down artist.

This is one person who won't follow your instructions Marc instead of Kallistis. It is her board not yours. Until she says something I will post when I want to. As for Deva and Kallsti's sumation of opinion read her website. It is basic but it is good for what it is. So what if it is Captain Morgan and not Nelthropp 12 year.

Heck you are not even in Boston.
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


You are clearly out of your depth.
A little humility would serve you well.
You have much to learn.
Until you actually know what you are talking about, sell your wares elsewhere.
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I will pass on the advice if any clients wish to make arrangements in advance. I see that the products you are referencing don't cost much more than shipping.

Otherwise I will serve what I have. It would be served with a mixer in the traditional proportions. There is a noticeable taste difference from mixer there is less of a taste difference between absinthes. I can see, next you guys will probably be insisting on water and arguing over waters from which French spring.

As a straight sipping product or with water there probably is more difference between brands.
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

But WHEN Wolfie, WHEN??!!
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 7:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

If only the Jade dream would come true, all this blabla would be pointless... Only one sip and no arguments would be needed.
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 4:58 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I am by FAR no expert. I have, however, tried a dozen or so abinthe brands ranging from La Sala, Deva, NS, Pernod 68, Un Emile 68, etc. If I were you, I'd listen to what Mr. Rabid and most (the constructive parts :)) of what Marccambell have to say. They know what they are talking about.

The cost difference between a La Sala and Un Emile is NEGLIGABLE!! The taste difference is IMMENSE!! You may want to have one or two of the "low end" on hand as a comparison and the rest being F. Guy, Emile or even Pernod.
Posted on Tuesday, September 3, 2002 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lmarchegrisiste, yer missing the point.

Wine, I can get Riunite by the gallon for $12.00.

Or I can get a bottle laid down 80 years ago by a blind franciscan blah blah blah for $1200.00.

Absinthe isn't like that. It's distilled, which means given good starting ingredients, knowledge and care, you can make really good absinthe and sell it at a reasonable price.

You can also mix oils together (Deva and Lasalla) and sell it at a markup so high Satan himself would call it a sin.

Get some Francois Guy or some Emile. Your guests will like it better and walk away with a truer picture of absinthe and might come back to it. You might be unwittingly turning them off by giving them the Night Train of absinthe (they will tar all with the same brush.)

While you do need to develop a palate to appreciate the finer points, absinthe differs from wine in another way- really good wine tastes like crap to the uninitiated for the most part.

Not so absinthe. While the best will spoil you, you will like it better than the mediocre *right away.* There is no need to develop an appreciation for the woody, tarry, or poopy qualitites over several years.

Seriously. Don't give them Deva. If you already bought it, save it for some night you just want to get ripped.
Posted on Monday, September 2, 2002 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


well, if you are serving Deva and Lasala, you are not serving absinthe.
Posted on Monday, September 2, 2002 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


If anybody wants service with a higher end product and is willing to make arrangements in advance I am not about to refuse them. Shipping cost which is by quantity not quality acts as an equalizer. It is higher than the cost of the product itself. Swiss Max F__ who has catered here for twenty years longer than my associates advised me to keep inventory lean and basic.
Posted on Monday, September 2, 2002 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Without meaning to by your example you are actually agreeing with me and making my point. I could sell services to the average person around Harvard Square or look for people who unlike the vintners or distillers I know only drink high end products.

You did though cause me to look the guy up on the web. I'll go see how he is doing. I found out he has a new place in town after being in the 'burbs. You know if I had his base of customers you would have a point. I sell more to people like him than the people he himself sells to.

Absinthe is still a small market and that particular chef's clientele of millionaire Weston-ians, Lincoln-ians and Wellesley-ites are a market that can more easily buy their own direct. I am sure that they have their own service people out there. I am not trying to bring people here from NYC on the basis of offering the "Grand Cru" of Absinthe.

Most of the yuppies who long to be artists, musicians and students and those who still are would be more likely to be looking for an enjoyable experience they can afford to repeat. Indeed so is the average person on the Rive Gauche or in Vaud.
Posted on Monday, September 2, 2002 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Okay, this is basically nonsense. Marccampbell, you're absolutely right..

By the way, LMarche, there is no "grand cru" absinthe..the best brands available commercially cost only marginally more than do the mediocre brands, and fortunately for all of us, some of the best stuff compares very favorably with the elusive and overpriced La Bleue's.

So, LMarche...your point is not well-taken.
Posted on Monday, September 2, 2002 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


you've entered a website populated by people who,
for the most part, have been drinking and enjoying
absinthe for years. We know the good stuff and we know the shit. You ain't going to win friends here by offering us shit. Its rude. And it is misleading to offer first time absinthe drinkers Deva or Lasala. Why expose them to mediocrity.
This not the way to educate or excite people regarding absinthe. The difference between
La Bleu and Lasala is the difference between a Turley zinfandel and a wine cooler. If my first introduction to wine was via a wine cooler, I'd never drink wine again. You clearly do not know
much about the different qualities of absinthe that are available. I would suggest you hire someboy who does and make your gathering a genuinely enlightening experience for the participants, as opposed to something that is amateurish.
Posted on Monday, September 2, 2002 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

In the field of French wine there are the follwing categories.

02% Grand Crus
10% Premiers Crus

Vin Ordinaire
34% village appellations
54% regional appellations

If you read the active posting on this board by analogy what you find is a handful of people who try and impress each other with their own particular knowledge of "Grands Crus". Sure that is good knowledge but exclusion, chasing anyone else off? This points more to basic ego problems not exquisite taste.

A larger number of people post only on occasion avoiding flak catching. A still larger group gets dissuaded from posting at all by the slice and dice manoeuvres of the snobs. Lurking tyros outnumber the snobs they just don't post.

If you enter wine in a search on the web and find the LARGEST forums you don't see as much cutting into each other. You think the poets or the artists like Rimbaud or Picasso (before 1915) could afford a "Grand Cru" absinthe?

The founder of one Boston's finest restaurants Espalier is a personal friend from..."Tasty's Diner" "R___ my friend, It not great it's decent it serves it's purpose, and after hours at a range the last thing I want is my own frou frou food it is for special occasions".

In France and other wine producing regions there is a much wider acceptance of wine. Some you have with ground beef and potatoes others you save for truffles. With the majority of the American market which is totally unaccustomed to the product you don't start them off with "Grand Crus". If find you like the other components we offer and want to move up the quality on that part of the table sure, ask in advance.

As for Kallisti when I started this thread I was told I should give her something for maintining the board. I did not want to post too much info here but sent more info to Kallisti.
She has not bothered to send her mail address or request compensation when offered. To me this means that she has at least not been offended and does not mind us "vin ordinaire" drinkers.
Posted on Monday, September 2, 2002 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


I doubt that you will attract any members of the forum to your gathering with Deva and LaSala.
That's some pretty lame absinthe. It is clear that you are entering an area that you know very little about. I would suggest that you wait awhile until you have a better sense of what absinthe is and isn't.

It seems you're suggesting that kallisti has given you her blessing on this event. I doubt very much that she would want her name used as an endorsement for such a foolish sounding enterprise. But, of course, she can speak for herself.
Posted on Monday, September 2, 2002 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

It has been used for getting around the proscription on absinthe sale before I got on the board. I am just utilizing food, wine and music instead of glasses and spoons. I don't want us to sell by the bottle or go over 50 gallons a year.

The one musician/bartender I work with is good at both. Kallisti the "Fee Verte" Absinthe Forum host has heard him I sent her his web URL. The other one handles a lot of craft service for the Somerville Theater. Come by the Burren on a Tuesday and ask the musicians. We just meet there we don't manage or own it. We do not sell on their premises.

Unopened mass market Spanish to begin with Deva & Lasala then if a customer wants to host I can arrange to trade up still as a gift in a package with food and service. We're caterers not dealers.

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