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Archive through September 30, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » The Monkey Hole » Herbage » Archive through September 30, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Wolfgang
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Since we`r in the Monkey hole, I would add that turkeys really like the company of parrots ;-)


Ok...I need a beer (I got some amazing ones made on an artisanal scale in the middle of nowhere somewhere up north in Quebec... The producer name is ''Les bières de la Nouvelle France'' and it is made with un-malted grains)
Mogan_David
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lh,

You and Bob are right of course. Just wishfull thinking I guess. It kind of made sense since hops have oily glands similar to MJ bud. My thinking was that those glands might fill with THC from chemicals provided by the roots. However to Bob's point, that would be very much the same as an apricot tasting apple.
Wolfgang
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

It is in fact called the Green Turkey and you serve it cold ... with half a sugar cube.
Traineraz
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hmm, Wolf's dinner party . . . the Thujone Bomb Turkey.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Even if you could graft hops onto a Canab' rootstock and the plant grew, you wouldn't get sticky buds developing. So even if the hop plant contained the active ingredient, without the sticky buds all you'd get would be very mild result. It'd be virtually a waste of time.
Wolfgang
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

On an almost related subject... Let`s talk about artemisia pontica gardening.

According to antiques recipes, Artemisia Pontica was used in absinthe, mainly for coloration. It is also a nice gardening plant that spread like weed and makes a nice garden plant. It can also be used for cooking like parsley. I found out it is very good to cook game but I guess it would add a nice touch even in turkey stuffing or ducks(like sage !). When harvested in fall just before temperature at night goes below freezing point, the plant is slightly bitter (but you can eat it witout grimacing(it`s not like artemisia absinthium). Fresh pontica is more powerfull than dried one (like most herbs). You should use less if you use fresh herbs and the taste would not be the same (it would be ''greener''). The smell is mild, gentle and nicely herbal.

If you wish to dry it (so it provide you a supply of original turkey stuffing during winter, especially for christmas), you should use a dehydrator set at low temperature (yes, quality takes time, it should take not less than 12 hours to dry) or if you go too fast, it would burn the herbs, turning the color dark and almost black(probably because chlorophyll is such a very fragile compound). Puting it in the oven, even at low temperature won`t do the job, believe me, I did try this trick once and ended up with unusable brown/black pontica.

If someone wish to have his own supply of pontica, it would be necessary to grow it yourself because even if you find a source of dried pontica (which would likely require a contact in Italy), chances are it will be dried too fast and burned).

Pontica fresh plant (with the roots and all...) can be found on the internet from specialised growers. Do you`r own research using google, don`t ask me unless you`r from Canada because it`s a pain to buy live plants over the border. I buy mine in Ontario at Canning Perenials or at Richters. You should buy it at the beginning of spring. When you receive your plants, you should open it *immediately* and put it in your garden (it works in pots but not so well and the pot should be large).

Enjoy your gardening experience!
Absinthedrinker
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Correct Bob, this is an urban myth generated by a misreading of a piece of research done in the 60s or 70s. It is amazing how many times it has been recited, a bit like Arnold's high thujone concentrations I guess :-)
Bob_Chong
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"hops can be grafted to MJ rootstock and grown in relative safety to produce hops with that certain kick. You could grow a nice aromatic variety and use it to dry hop your wort."

I didn't think that any plant grafted onto a host would actually take on the charcteristics of the host. An apple branch grafted onto apricot rootstock grows apples, not apricot-flavored apples, right?
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I think I read in Conrad's (I don't have the book with me) that the wormwood plants were dried for a month in the shade before being used. I wonder if the purpose of the drying process is to allow the alcohol to "get in" the herb and extract the good stuff.

Yeah, we better steer the subject back to wormwood before we get a serious spanking from Mistress K.
Traineraz
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 1:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

Regarding the potency of herb. The fresher the herb the better. Potency dwindles over time. This holds true for marijuana and also holds true for wormwood. All the thujone will evaporate from the wormwood (just like the THC will leave the marijuana) if you leave it to dry for too long and then the wormwood will be no good. No point using wormwood in absinthe if the final product does not enable you to see the Green Fairy.


Perhaps the dried herbs would explain the very low thujone content in vintage Pernod Fils? Could it be that the high anethole has more of a part to play than drinkers of the Thujone Bomb would like to admit?

By the way, the only Green Fairy I've ever seen was that happy-looking costumer . . . and she didn't look ANY better after I gnawed for an hour on a block of white cedar I'd steeped for three days in sage and tarragon-infused vermouth.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'll bet the loophole hasn't been closed in the UK though.
Crosby
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There was a book available in San Francisco "Head Shops" during the 1970's that explained how to graft MJ onto hop root stock. The idea was to avoid getting busted for cultivation by making the MJ plant technically a hop plant. I also read that this loop hole has been closed.
Mogan_David
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

So thats how the Brits get those green teeth. It's just little bits of MJ stuck there from tea time.

Personally I'd rather have a brownie with Dr O.

BTW, I'm curious if anyone else has read that hops can be grafted to MJ rootstock and grown in relative safety to produce hops with that certain kick. You could grow a nice aromatic variety and use it to dry hop your wort. Now there's a nice Summer garden project for the whole family.

MD
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

But if you stir it up well you can drink the little bits floating in it then eat any tea leaves lying at the bottom of your cup.
Dr_Ordinaire
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 4:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hob, I'm afraid you can't make tea. The active component (TeeAitchCee) is not water soluble, but fat soluble.

To get high from MaryJane's tea is like getting secondary effects from Absente...

That's why people fry it in butter to make brownies.
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes, but if its left knocking around for too long you might as well smoke dried banana pith. Though if you're in a hurry and can't wait a month then you can always make tea.
Mogan_David
Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

LH,

I agree completely, but proper preparation of the herb is just as important as freshness. Marijuana must be cured over a period of about a month to get the best smoke. Fresh bud must be slowly dried so that the sugars can break down. Quickly dried smoke is harsh like burned sugar. No one likes that.

At least that's what I've heard from people who inhale. Of course I just say no.

MD
Admin
Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

doom monkey
Lordhobgoblin
Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oi!

This is the Monkey Hole!

Take your serious absinthe related discussions an stick them on the absinthe related section of the forum.

Discussions like this will end up destroying the Monkey Hole. Next thing we'll be reviewing new brands down here and the monkeys will have nowhere to screech.

Regarding the potency of herb. The fresher the herb the better. Potency dwindles over time. This holds true for marijuana and also holds true for wormwood. All the thujone will evaporate from the wormwood (just like the THC will leave the marijuana) if you leave it to dry for too long and then the wormwood will be no good. No point using wormwood in absinthe if the final product does not enable you to see the Green Fairy.
Zman7
Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Fresh herb vs dried herb"
It depends on what the wormwood is being used for.
In absinthe's heydey (19th and early 20th Centuries)ONLY dried wormwood was used. I have never seen a classical absinthe manufacturing protocol that calls for the use of any fresh herb. All herbs used in commercial classical absinthe were dried.
Hyperturtle
Posted on Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hmm, well I guess my message isn't really about MAKING absinthe. I'm not asking how to do that, nor am I implying a method of doing so.

I would like to know if fresh material is better than dried, for flavor at least.

Lemon Balm, for example, I have found to be best when fresh, especially when making a tea immediately after harvest.

If this is still an inappropriate context, let me know. It is difficult for me to determine.
Nolamour
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ooooh, Sasparilla Soda! What's the brand and where can I get it? Is it anything like red gensing root cola? I forget the brand but it was pretty good.

(ancient chinese secret)
Admin
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

yes. hush now.

also, bought some chinese sarsparilla soda the other day. and damn me if it don't taste kinda like absinthe.

crazy.
Marc
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

turtle,

read Kallisti's latest "announcement". It forbids the discussion of making absinthe here in the forum.
Hyperturtle
Posted on Friday, September 27, 2002 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi everyone,

It has been a while since I posted. maybe some of you remember me, hopefully not as an idiot... anyway.

I have a question about (don't hit me) making absinthe, not so much ingredients and technique, but more along the lines of potency of herbs.

Let's pretend we are cooking dinner. If you are told to use 1 part dried basil, the general advice is to use 3 parts FRESH basil. The same holds true with most herbs when making dinner (oregano I believe is different story).

So, in my searches, I have seen that fresh wormwood is better than dried, but... how much fresh wormwood to use? Sure, I have a pretty good idea of how much to use dried... but I have no idea about fresh. Or if the essential oils diminish via poor drying methods, or if the taste improves from using fresh or...

Does anyone have any insight?

Hyperturtle

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