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Archive through December 18, 2002

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum Archive thru January 2003 » Strictly Absinthe & Collectibles » A question 'bout LaFee & Pernod 68 » Archive through December 18, 2002 « Previous Next »

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Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 5:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

And here it is:

my picture
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 5:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

And if memory serves, there's another Charles Maire painting of a glass of absinthe (with a newspaper and a cigar in the background) that appears to be cloudy and well-louched . An image of it can be found in Barnaby Conrad's book.
Aion
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Isn´t it interesting that the labels
are very close to a photograph in
both examples, but the attributes of
the product itselfs differ so strongly?
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 4:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Why is it that whenever Artemis is around, the "edit" function ceases to work? A conspiracy ...
Chevalier
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 4:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Another, less darkened example of Aon's image:

my picture
Aion
Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Holy balloons!
A.
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Head has mind like steel sieve!
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hmmmmm???

Arrows go hmmmmmmm????
Aion
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

pernod2

Just look at these 2 well known examples,
both made for advertisement purposes afaik,
showing the same product.

The color is only slightly different, but
the density of the louche...

So much for the "photorealistic quality"...

A.
Aion
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

pernod1
Vortex
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Even if a color photo of freshly manufactured vintage absinthe in a glass did exist, the dyes in the photographic paper and negatives would have changed over time as well.
Petermarc
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

pernod4
pernod-ricard 68, jade pernod clone, vintage pernod fils, pernod anis c.1930
pernod3
pernod-ricard 68, jade pernod clone, vintage pernod fils
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Actually they're modern photographs of old Absinthe that survived till today."

All such absinthe that I've seen, in photographs and in person, is the color (more or less) of honey, which is a far cry from the original color of the liquor. The reason, as Zman pointed out, is that chlorophyll, which is what colored it green in the first place, changes from green to brown, as autumn shows us. The French call it "feuille morte" (dead leaves), but possibly it could be accurately translated as "autumn leaves". The color of a sample of old absinthe that has survived into modern times doesn't tell us much about its original color, unfortunately.
Louched_Liver
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Artemis? Shit, the spooks are comin' out the woodwork now. How long before Verdigris Harpy shows up?
Tuivel
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 1:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

>Nothing approaching emerald; more like Peridot.
Just looked at some pictures and realised emerald-green is a good bit darker than i thought. Sorry my mistake.

>The images to which you refer are paintings, not >photographs
Actually they're modern photographs of old Absinthe that survived till today. Guess i should have been more specific. As i said the color was yellow/brown but appeared a bit strong, that confused me a little back then. But since computerimages of photos can be rather deceiving it was kinda dumb of me to take them into account at all. It don't doubt what you said about the coloring or rather flavouring step.

By the way... thanks for the welcome louch. And thanx again to the veterans for the education.
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 11:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The ghost of Christmas passee.
Chevalier
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh my God ... I feel as if I just saw a ghost ...
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

>>getting an emerald green absinthe results in dramatic changes to the flavour

>But if it's done right these changes don't necesarily have to be bad... have they?

Done *light* is done *right*. I'm confidant that quality absinthe was NEVER dark green. Nothing approaching emerald; more like Peridot. As AD points out, the change in flavor profile that comes with a darker color is profound. Peter correctly points out that the process in question is a flavoring step. The color it lends is almost accidental.

>The photos of vintage absinthe i've seen all
>seem to show a rather strong colour ...

If you ever run across a *photograph* of vintage absinthe that shows its *color* (i.e., a color photgraph), I'd like to see it. The images to which you refer are paintings, not photographs. The colors came off a palette, not a plant.

As to dyes used to make absinthe green, whether poisonous or not, they ALL lead to second-rate absinthe, because (it bears repeating), coloring with plants is about SCENT. Dyes do not contribute any scent.
Zman7
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

All the old texts that I have seen indicate that caramel and indigo were only used for lower class absinthes (usually oil or "essence" mixes) that were produced for, "those with bored palates."
Also, traditionally colored absinthes loose their brilliant green over time and fade to a somewhat yellow hue, then on to a "dead-leaf (brownish)" color with age. Also one thing to keep in mind is that the coloring stage isn't primarily about color. The herbs used also lend a definite flavor bouquet to the finished absinthe.
Louched_Liver
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Tuivel,
Welcome! As these answers show, not everyone here is a moron like myself.
Thank you Peter for giving a clear answer to an oft confusing issue.
Tuivel
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 2:05 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thank's to you all for your quick and informative answers. :)

>however, modern absinthe makers who use >artifical color have alot in common with their >historical counterparts, as most poor-quality >brands of the époque did the same thing

Greed and incompetence seem to be timeless. But i wonder,... the majority of brands were decent stuff back then weren't they? Pernod alone produced huge amounts and it wasn't the only good name in the business i believe.

>as most of the recipes in Bedel call for the >addition of indigo and caramel to 'adjust' the >colour

Are these recipes representative of the majority or anything? The photos of vintage absinthe i've seen all seem to show a rather strong colour(tho mostly yellowish or brown now)

>getting an emerald green absinthe results in >dramatic changes to the flavour

But if it's done right these changes don't necesarily have to be bad... have they?
Absinthedrinker
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have often wondered how 'green' 19th century absinthe was in its natural state as most of the recipes in Bedel call for the addition of indigo and caramel to 'adjust' the colour. As hausgemachters know, getting an emerald green absinthe results in dramatic changes to the flavour profile of the absinthe and La Fée contains two colouring agents (which is why it can be sold in a clear bottle). Certainly absinthe appears green in contemporary paintings but the art of the period was seldom naturalistic.
Petermarc
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

'macerated' is a misused term in absinthe production. plants ARE macerated in alcohol and then distilled...the difference is that virtually all modern absinthes are made from products that are macerated, then distilled into essences (which are stored) and then these essences are cold mixed in alcohol to create the final product when supply demands. the best (original) method is to macerate the plants in alcohol, then the alcohol/plant mash is distilled, creating the final product, which is then colored by additional plants afterward (and flavored-the green color of absinthe is a by-product of a second flavoring step, which should be why some absinthes are green, yellow or left clear.) this second flavoring step is the most incorrectly understood part, as it is most often seen as merely for color...however, modern absinthe makers who use artifical color have alot in common with their historical counterparts, as most poor-quality brands of the époque did the same thing, many with dangerous additives that helped to bring on the ban... history is unfortunately repeating itself, but this time in reverse...hopefully, it's not too late...
Tabreaux
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

1> AFAIK, the producers attempted to make La Fee in 'accordance with the most authentic recipes', but upon realizing the 'recipes' in question yielded unsatisfactory results, elected to reformulate. As to what this means in the way of production methods, depending on the characteristics of the finished product, the differences may not be so obvious.

2> Pernod 68 is indeed an 'assemblage', just as are Pernod-Ricard's other products. This information comes straight from the French authorities in response to a formal inquiry placed by another producer.
Tuivel
Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi everyone!
If anyone here feels like bestowing some knowledge upon a poor lil' newbie...i've got one or two questions.

1. LaFee has been refered to as a 'good oil mix' here several times, but their website claims: "The plants were macerated in alcohol and then distilled in accordance with the most authentic recipes."
Just the usual marketing lies?? Is there any way to reliantly tell an oil mix apart from a distilled product?

2. It has been mentioned that Pernod 68 is 'macerated'. Wouldnt it have to taste much worse than it actually does if they macerate with A.A.? Where's that information from anyway?

Hope i didn't waste your time

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