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Hey Lord Hobgolin!

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Archive through May 15, 2003Carl Guderian (Bjacq25 5-15-03  8:02 pm
Archive through May 13, 2003mattm3 (Mattm3)25 5-13-03  6:05 pm
Archive through May 10, 2003ENORMUS DICK (Louche25 5-10-03  6:20 am
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Carl Guderian (Bjacques)
le Duc
Username: Bjacques

Post Number: 265
Registered: 4-2001
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 3:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks, Artemis & Blackjack; that's basically what I was getting at. For now I don't own a gun (and never have) because I think they're more trouble than they're worth (though lots of fun to shoot). If I did get one, it would be after considering all the above. All my gun-owning friends are responsible and I assumed you guys are too, but it's still good to hear it, especially in a gun debate.

Seriously, I wonder if there'd be a market for a course in home defense like those police training yards with the pop-up human targets. Darkened house, shadowy intruder, kids wandering into the line of fire, etc. Price it so the average homeowner or the merely curious (like me) could afford to take it.
Barsnake (Barsnake)
le Duc
Username: Barsnake

Post Number: 184
Registered: 4-2002


Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Actually, this potato vodka is rather good. And it's from my home state of Idaho (Famous Potatoes).
http://www.ontherail.com/site/review/blueice/index.asp
and the beat goes on...
mattm3 (Mattm3)
le Duc
Username: Mattm3

Post Number: 380
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Potatoe Vodka sucks
How sweet life can be when the misery of ones existance is blurred by slight intoxication!!!

August Strindburg
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 990
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

You won't see it in the "responsible" news organs, not because it's not the truth, but because it's not the truth they want to tell.



I will posit that the reason that most news media do not cover such things is not so much a raging liberal bias so much as a raging desire for ratings or readers. "Responsible People Don't Shoot Each Other" doesn't make nearly as catchy a headline as "Teen Gun Rampage".

I've worked in the periphery of the media for several years now, and I have not observed any real POLITICAL bias. The bias is towards sensationalism and oversimplification, which is why they will rail against guns on one day and welfare moms the next.

I saw a piece on CBS last week warning of the dangers of Spud Guns for crissakes. They managed to track down the ONE PERSON in the country ever injured by one (he lost an eye while looking down the barrel of a loaded one...) and turned it into "a weapon any child can build, and it's LEGAL!"

Trust me, if there was a liberal media bias, I, as a liberal, would spend less time ripping my hair out every time the news comes on. You want real liberal media bias? Go read some European papers. They don't even pretend...
mattm3 (Mattm3)
le Duc
Username: Mattm3

Post Number: 340
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

God, Guns and Government!!!
How sweet life can be when the misery of ones existance is blurred by slight intoxication!!!
Jefferson Brick (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 771
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

And that American journalism was ever on some pedestal of objectivity is a myth in any case.

See:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashny.htm

Jefferson Brick. I have found myself a new pseudonym!

Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 770
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Carl wrote:

"So, yeah, you need a cool head even in a hot situation, or you're just a loose cannon."

Absolutely. It behooves anyone who thinks he might find himself in that situation to practice what he will need to do in the shooting situation, make sure he's good at it, and that "innocent" bystanders will not get hurt AND to think long and hard about the consequences afterward - is he prepared to face those as well?

It's not legal to shoot a person you have at your mercy. Whether I would do it or not would probably depend on what he had done to me first.

As to the demagogue comment about Fox News, some of what I see there disturbs me, but virtually everything I see on ABC, NBC etc. has disturbed me for years. Fox News is no different from these others in putting their editorials right into the "news", the only difference is, they don't try to hide it, whereas the other hypocrites have done it all along but tried to pass it off as objective or impartial. The intelligent person may find the truth somewhere between the two. At least now, people have a choice.

BTW, I bet you don't read The American Rifleman. If you want to read true stories about people in the U.S. defending themselves with guns, you'll have to. It's in there, in considerable quantity, every month. You won't see it in the "responsible" news organs, not because it's not the truth, but because it's not the truth they want to tell.
Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Lordhobgoblin (Lordhobgoblin)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Lordhobgoblin

Post Number: 778
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 3:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"In terms of disarming the locals, while certainly hypocritical, it demonstrates exactly why Americans can get so worked up over protecting our own guns: it's tough to control a country full of unfriendly people with guns"

What? You mean the Iraqi's don't love us for liberating them? Ungrateful bastards, we decide to go to war to liberate them (or at least we decided this after 6 days into the war when we couldn't see any sight of WMDs) and they're not eternally grateful. But didn't all that TV footage show that most Iraqi's were on the streets hugging GIs as we liberated them? Surely you would have thought that keeping all those gratefully liberated people armed would have helped us to root out the bad guys.
I like mustard (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3408
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 1:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Don't forget the ONE ARMED MAN!!!
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 988
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

If the burglar turns tail or falls down blubbering and begging for his life, do you shoot anyway?



Of course not. You keep the gun trained on him and wait for the police to arrive.

MOST cases of defensive gun use, by an order of magnitude or more, do not involve discharging the weapon, let alone injuring the intruder/attacker. The ideal situation is something like: you hear somebody trying to break in, you announce that you are there and that you have a gun, and they turn tail and run. But you have to be PREPARED to fire, or the gun is, at best, a poorly designed bludgeon, and, at worst, a weapon for the intruder to use on you.

And, yes, in most states, shooting someone who is already down will land you in jail, unless you are a senior citizen or pregnant woman or otherwise seen as utterly defenseless.

But probably not in Texas...
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 987
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

Indeed. What about all this supposed secret intelligence we had on WMDs? Was it all just bollocks?



Pretty much.

In terms of disarming the locals, while certainly hypocritical, it demonstrates exactly why Americans can get so worked up over protecting our own guns: it's tough to control a country full of unfriendly people with guns.
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 986
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

So in the UK you are 2.4 times as likely to be burgled than in the US whereas in the US you are almost 4.5 times more likely to be murdered than in the UK. If I was given the choice of trading our crime stats with yours I don't think I'd be attracted to increasing my likelihood of being murdered by 4.5 times in return for halving my likelihood of being burgled.



This isn't something that can be understood accurately in terms of proportions, because in EITHER case, the number of people murdered per 100,000 is going to be a deceptively small sample. The actual difference is only 5 people per 100,000. The difference between the number of burglaries, however, is 1300. Quadrupling a small number still gives you a small number.

Nevertheless, I think the real thing to be shown from all this is a fundementally different attitude towards crime between our two countries, something I've said many times. Shooting a burglar is just as alien an idea to most Britains as the idea of just letting people burgle you and hope they go away would be to most Americans.


quote:

Out of interest what is the likelihood of me getting mugged in the US versus the UK?



Police reports make ours 1.4 times higher than yours. Victimization reports make yours 1.4 times higher than ours. Tough to draw any conclusion. I suspect they are pretty close to equal.
I like mustard (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3406
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2530714403&category=1210

...standing on my head and waiting.
Darrin, Stalker of Head (Traineraz)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Traineraz

Post Number: 902
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

It's still a war in search of a purpose.



Now they're saying he has a porpoise??

He IS a monster!!



He who would sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither.

-- Thus Spake Zoboomafoo
Lordhobgoblin (Lordhobgoblin)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Lordhobgoblin

Post Number: 777
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oh it always had a purpose but not one that anyone would want to admit to.
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 579
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

It's still a war in search of a purpose.
Lordhobgoblin (Lordhobgoblin)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Lordhobgoblin

Post Number: 776
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"At least the Iraqis haven't had to give up any weapons of mass destruction."

Indeed. What about all this supposed secret intelligence we had on WMDs? Was it all just bollocks? An odd war where 6 days into the war the justification for starting the war suddenly changes from removing WMDs to a war of liberation.

What about a war of liberation against Robert Mugabe? He's just as nasty a piece of work as Saddam Hussein. Surely he's nasty enough to go on the 'Axis of Evil' list?
Lordhobgoblin (Lordhobgoblin)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Lordhobgoblin

Post Number: 775
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Ignoring demographics, an American has a 1-in-17,000 chance of being murdered in a given year. Again ignoring demographics, someone in England has about a 1-in-77,000 chance of being murdered in a given year. Clearly, those odds are much better than in the US, BUT the odds in the US are still pretty remote. Someone in England has about a 1-in-45 chance of being burgled in a given year. In the US, the chance is more like 1-in-110. In practical terms, that is a much more significant difference than the difference in murder rates,..."

So in the UK you are 2.4 times as likely to be burgled than in the US whereas in the US you are almost 4.5 times more likely to be murdered than in the UK. If I was given the choice of trading our crime stats with yours I don't think I'd be attracted to increasing my likelihood of being murdered by 4.5 times in return for halving my likelihood of being burgled.

So I'm probably going to get burgled once in my lifetime, I can live with that. At least if it happens the likelihood of the burglar carrying a gun is pretty remote.

Out of interest what is the likelihood of me getting mugged in the US versus the UK? I ask this because I know people who have been burgled but don't know anyone who has been mugged.
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 576
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 6:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

At least the Iraqis haven't had to give up any weapons of mass destruction.
Carl Guderian (Bjacques)
le Duc
Username: Bjacques

Post Number: 264
Registered: 4-2001
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

As for Iraq, victor's law might stand in for international law these days, but there's a quaint American saying about the difficulty of disarming locals, something about "cold, dead fingers."

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