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Archive through May 15, 2003

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum » Strictly Absinthe & Collectibles » Home Made Revisited » Archive through May 15, 2003 « Previous Next »

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ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1758
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Lotta sass in the air.
Will work for absinthe.
2LY!!! (2loucheltrec)
le Duc
Username: 2loucheltrec

Post Number: 275
Registered: 3-2002


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

after you nappyster...
2LY!!! (2loucheltrec)
le Duc
Username: 2loucheltrec

Post Number: 274
Registered: 3-2002


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"So F.O.A.D. to you. "

NO
ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1756
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wha'? You wan you legs busted?
Will work for absinthe.
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Pigeon - Your comments are well appreciated. Thanks. My only real crime is that I tend to get exited when I find a new area of interest. I reread my original post. It contains nothing abusive whatsoever. Just some happy comments. I guess most people here know all there is to know about absithe and feel that they have nothing further to learn from what arguably constitutes 50 percent of the process - soaking herbs. I think a little additional knowlege can be can be had in this area with a few perfectly legal experiments. At the very least it helps one learn to identify taste characteristics of various herbs used in the process. At least it works well in the beer and wine tasting classes that I have taken (ie. soak cardboard in water and take a good sniff, or sip if you dare, to identify what oxidation off flavors do to wine and beer).

========================

Speaking of wine. 2loucheltrec, I WILL NOT get into a nit picky argument with you over the symantics of wine tasting and classification. That will only degrade this thread further. So F.O.A.D. to you.

====

"Absinthe Mafia" - That term is quite literal!
ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1755
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Uh, someone gettin' pissed around here?
Will work for absinthe.
The Red Pigeon (Icarus)
le Duc
Username: Icarus

Post Number: 312
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nabber you came in here like a charging bull. For many the only reaction is to shoot first, and eat steak. Luckily enough Zman used his superhuman powers of kindness to sooth, rather than a verbal decimation.

2LY!!! (2loucheltrec)
le Duc
Username: 2loucheltrec

Post Number: 272
Registered: 3-2002


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

what is this "bordeaux grape" you talk of? tell me more o' wise one.
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thank you for the enlightening information. Now that wasnt too hard to speak in civil manner now was it. Thanks.

Interesting that you should bring up the subject of gardening. I am well aware of the difference between A. absinthium and A. pontica. I too grow both types of wormwood in my garden, as well as several other herbs (more than you could possibly imagine, all legel mind you!). I have over 5000 square feet of garden. Plus several 100 feet of vinyard.

Make wine? That's the easy part. Try establishing a decent vinyard in the middle of BF Kansas that yields high quality grape for must. It can be done, but it takes years of patience.

Hops? Been growing cascades and sazz for years and have won several home brew awards using those same home grown hops.

Barely? - Yes, I actually have grown and malted my own barely. Major PITA, but it can be done. I prefer to import malt from Belgian these days and mash from there thank you.

Lambic beer? Cant be done? Think again. I have about 10 gallons of gueze, lambic, and raspberry lambic (you guessed it, home growed raspberies) that I would love to share with you. (Actually went through the same sh*t that I am going through here on the Lambic Digest several years ago).

Bread? BION, I am working on a nice little project in the back yard that is based on plans from a 18th-century French brick-lined, wood-fired oven.

Absinthe?? Just a mater of time. (Uh, flavoring that is, not distilling!)

So, some people never learn huh? Looks like most of you are the ones who stopped learning years ago.
Z (Zman7)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Zman7

Post Number: 293
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ok, in absinthe there are two types of wormwood used.
Grand (or common)wormwood= artemisia absinthium.
Petite (or Roman wormwood)= artemisia pontica.
There are no accurate vintage recipes that call for Grand wormwood in the coloring step. What is used in the coloring step is Roman Wormwood.
Part of the confusion may be that those silly frogs call many species of artemisia "absinthe."
What the vintage recipes are calling for is the use of Petite Absinthe in the coloring step. FWIW, petite absinthe isn't all that bitter. I have alot of it growing in my garden.
One other reason much of the historic ramblings call for sugar with your tipple is because much of the absinthe available in Paris in the Belle Epoque, was oil mixed crap, sometimes containing nasty chemicals to make it green and louche.
Also, keep in mind that the "recipes" here are a guide for experienced distillers of the vintage era. Duplais published his book as a "how to" manual for the commercial distiller. Much of what you need to know about making absinthe is not in those recipes, because it is assumed that the reader is already an accomplished distiller/liqourist.
Imperial Order of Absinthe
Crosby (Crosby)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Crosby

Post Number: 536
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Some folks just can't learn and are a waste of energy.


C'est ma santé
Jay & The Imp (Thegreenimp)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Thegreenimp

Post Number: 275
Registered: 7-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You should learn to read more carefully, you don't use wormwood in the coloring step.
Like wise most of the descriptions of absinthe being extremely bitter, were written by people that never tasted real absinthe.
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 18
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Where in the world are you coming up with that nonsense from?"

Uh, I read the friggin historical recipes.

"The herbs used in the coloration step are NOT terribly bitter herbs. They provide color and aroma, for the most part. This is why you can produce fairly good absinthes (la Bleue, la Blanche, etc.) without the coloration step at all. The DISTILLATION is the key to making "real" absinthe. "

I dont know all of the recipes that I have seen have pretty large amount of wormwood soaked post distaillation. In fact I did the math from ALL of the recipes available inthe historical section and it averaged out to just over 10 grams of wormwood in 1 liter of absolute alcohol. That data is not arguable, it is there. Perhaps you should do your own research. Anyway, every try soaking 10 grams of wormwood in ANY liquid. Obviuosly you havent, because you know that it would come out really green and really bitter.

I am just following the information that is fully available on this website. Either it (the historical information) is wrong or you are wrong.
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 17
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

humm.. Really poor analogy.

Fine wine is easy. Been there, done that. Vintage just takes time.

I can order bordeaux grapes right now if willing to pay the right amount, but I prefer the varieties that I grow in my backyard, or that I have shipped in from California. I can get the right strain of yeast, that's easily available on the internet. Time I have, and only time will tell for sure.

In about 5 more years I should be uncorking the best bottles that I have had aging in my cellar. And with an attitude like that, you arent getting any.
Jay & The Imp (Thegreenimp)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Thegreenimp

Post Number: 274
Registered: 7-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Qoute:"because the historical stuff is so bitter (from soaking wormwood after distillation, duh!)"

Where in the world are you coming up with that nonsense from?
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 981
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

Based on that information, UE68 is NOT real absinthe from a historical sense.



Yes it is. Why do you think it's green, fer crying outloud? Because they soak herbs in it after distillation. The trick is to soak the right herbs, in the right proportions, for the right amount of time.

The herbs used in the coloration step are NOT terribly bitter herbs. They provide color and aroma, for the most part. This is why you can produce fairly good absinthes (la Bleue, la Blanche, etc.) without the coloration step at all. The DISTILLATION is the key to making "real" absinthe.

In terms of "historical" recipies, Un Emile 68 is made, for the most part, using the same recipe that the Emile Pernot distillery was using 110 years ago.


quote:

Again, all historical references talk about sugar cubes and the use of an absinthe spoon. Why?? because the hstorical stuff is so bitter (from soaking wormwood after distillation, duh!), that you needed sugar to choke it down.



Or that the French just like things sweet. Plenty of people took their absinthe without sugar. If you follow the "historical recipes" exactly, and do it well, you will not end up with something bitter.

We've been through all of this a million times. You happen to be wrong I'm afraid; no great sin, if you are willing to admit it. You need to realize that there are people on this forum who have forgotton more about absinthe than you or I will ever know. The idea that absinthe is supposed to be bitter has been debunked on numerous levels. Search the archives if you don't believe me.

Heck, I think even Dr. O eventually capitualted the point...
Mr_green_jeans (Mr_green_jeans)
Paysan
Username: Mr_green_jeans

Post Number: 3
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

If it wasnt suspicious before, it is now at least likely that the 86 in "nabber86" represents your birth year. I'd like to grant you the benefit of youth, as the alternative is, well, . . .
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 980
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey, I made a fine vintage bordeaux by mixing grape Kool-Aid and Everclear...
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 16
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

OK, I am basing my definition of real absinthe as what is listed in the historical recipes section of this website (as well as what I have read elsewhere). Every single recipe lists soaking herbs AFTER distillation (mainly petite wormwood, mellisa, and hyssop). It isnt that hard to figure out. Based on that information, UE68 is NOT real absinthe from a historical sense. Incidently, it takes very little herb soak to get a green color. Maybe thats how I can tell there is little or no herb soaked post-distialltion in UE 68. Maybe some, but nothing near the historical recipes.

UE68 is rather sweet IMHO. I see no need to add a sugar cube. Again, all historical references talk about sugar cubes and the use of an absinthe spoon. Why?? because the hstorical stuff is so bitter (from soaking wormwood after distillation, duh!), that you needed sugar to choke it down. It doesnt take a masters degree in French History to figure that one out. Again, based on this conclusion, UE 68 is not a real absinthe from a historical perspective.

As far as thujone goes, whatever. Replace the word "thujone" with "wormwood" in my original post if it bothers you.

As far as sawing my hand off? Artemis you are so boring. You obviuosly underestimate the power of knowledge and experimenting. Making a decent historical absinthe just isnt that hard. The recipes are there arent they? How else does one learn? Even Moonman had to start somewhere didnt he?

Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 767
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

1) First, read the link provided by Crosby before you mention thujone again. Also, "from what I can tell, very little or no soaked herbs are used to enhance the color or flavor." How can you tell that?

2) Un Emile is not sweet because of sugar. No legitimate absinthe has sugar in it. Anisette is a liqueur; it's made with sugar.

3) No surprises there.

4) "Now what to do?" Stop wasting wormwood and anisette.

Postscript - Practice at sawing your hand off will not make you a good carpenter. Please read everything on this site and then write a "What I Did on My Absinthe Vacation" report to Auntie Kallisti before proceeding further.
Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Z (Zman7)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Zman7

Post Number: 292
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Un Emile 68 IS real absinthe. Real absinthe should NOT be very bitter. That's the whole point of it being distilled, it leaves the nasties behind in the still. And have you ever had "real" absinthe? On what are you basing your opinion on? I'm not trying to be a snot, just wondering what your point of reference is to come to these conclusions.
Imperial Order of Absinthe
The Red Pigeon (Icarus)
le Duc
Username: Icarus

Post Number: 310
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Nappy, I needed a good laugh.

I think this may be my favorite line-

quote:


"... it cant be real absinthe because it is not really that bitter and obviously the thujone content is limited".



Hee hee you funny!
Jay & The Imp (Thegreenimp)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Thegreenimp

Post Number: 272
Registered: 7-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 11:13 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Or even better, try reading the reference section on this website.....dont stuff a bunch of herbs in a bottle, that doesn't make real absinthe.
Duck and Cover
Crosby (Crosby)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Crosby

Post Number: 535
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Suggested reading:

http://www.absintheonline.com/acatalog/Thujone.html
C'est ma santé
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Okay, after several tasting sessions of Um Emile 68 that I bought over Easter and a little home experimenting (don’t worry, no laws were broken), I have come up with a few things:

1) Un Emile 68 is very fine stuff. I say stuff because it cant be real absinthe because it is not really that bitter and obviously the thujone content is limited. Also from what I can tell, very little or no soaked herbs are used to enhance the color or flavor. Expensive but nonetheless, very fine and tasty stuff. Did I say very fine?

2) A good bottle of anisette can be a mighty fine liquor also. But no wormwood whatsoever, or green color. I bought a bottle of Marie something-or-other from France for about 20 bucks (label said that it was made with green anise and other herbs). It has a very good flavor that is similar in many respects to the UE 68. A couple of problems with the anisette tho’: waaay too sweet and thick. (I thought that the UE 68 was too sweet until I tried this stuff)

3) Made a bottle of homey herb soak. Took the ratios of herbs found in the historical section of this webpage and soaked them in grain alcohol for a week then strained them out. Like a said, no laws broken, except for the fact that I had to travel across State lines to obtain a bottle of Everclear. Cant buy Everclear in Bumfuck, Kansas. Anyway, WOW - nice green color and GASP - really really bitter. Other good points - lot’s and lot’s of wormwood.

4) Now what to do? Well of course, mix the homey green shit with the store bought anisette. Try several mixes while at the same time comparing to the UE 68. Turns out 2 parts anisette to one part homey green shit makes a verrrrry tasty mix. In side by side comparison, I still like the UE 68 better. But hey, this was only my first try. I was amazed at how good it was.

So I figure, it is possible to make good absinthe with a little practice and not break the law. However, it is a good idea to have an excellent bottle of modern absinthe to compare to. What could be more fun?

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