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Archive through May 17, 2003

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum » Strictly Absinthe & Collectibles » Here we go again » Archive through May 17, 2003 « Previous Next »

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ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1769
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 3:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Masque-ito,
Everyone knows I get the samples, putz.
Will work for absinthe.
I like mustard (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3407
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nice try at shmoozing a free sample though.
Semi Gifted Amateur (Masque)
Mousquetaire
Username: Masque

Post Number: 40
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nabber appears to be trying to be one of the more talented people. More power to him, in my opinion. Anyone who is serious about making absinthe gets respect and my good wishes, not that that means much.
Jay & The Imp (Thegreenimp)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Thegreenimp

Post Number: 279
Registered: 7-2001


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 1:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Coming to an Absinthe Forum Near You!
Thujone

Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 985
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Don actually discussed the boiling point at one point, but I suspect the archive is long-purged.

The point of the article should be that a) there is no reason to think thujone causes any "secondary" effect and b) that the levels of thujone in absinthe, even vintage absinthe, are much lower than is usually assumed. The vintage sample tested for the article had less than the modern absinthes.
Suzanne Matthews (Seldomseen)
Paysan
Username: Seldomseen

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

In response to the boiling point discussion. The boiling point of pure thujone maybe between 83oC to 85oC(my Merck’s at work). In a complex matrix such as wormwood, it maybe different. Boiling points are usually given for pure substances. In a plant there are many other compounds, so using the boiling point for a pure compound would no longer necessarily apply. My experience in working in a laboratory doing method development for organic pesticide residue analysis over a wide range of matrices, has been that different chemicals in different matrices (plants, soils and animal tissues) can have quite different physical and chemical properties than the known properties for the pure compound, due to the complex environment it is in. A much better way to determine thujone content in the product would be GC/MS analysis after proper clean-up/separation steps have been performed, which has no doubt already been mentioned in probably in previous posts. And, yes, I know that is something the “hobbyist” probably won’t have access to.

I have lurked here for a little while now and think that the thujone is kind of a red flag word for many here. It’s like someone posting in a winemaking forum “How can I make some wine, strong enough to get me really drunk?” A better approach would be to lurk for awhile, if you haven’t already and research the archive to get some perspective on why people are touchy on this point and more information regarding the process. Then come back and ask questions. Personally, I prefer to drink the wonderful stuff and let more talented people fiddle with the making of it. That’s where art meets science.
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 32
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Not that I beleive in all government BS, but the national Institute of Health is a fairly respected source of information. They may twist around facts concerning health effects of certain organic compounds, but they certainly (usually anyway) get their facts straight when it comes to easily measured parameters such as the boiling point of a chemical or compound.

I also know that the Merk index is a extremely good source of chemical info.

So here we have a huge difference. NIH says thujone boils at 201 degrees C and, from what you are saying, thujone boils in the low eighties.

The government might be fucked up, but I cant beleive that there is that much discreptcy between the two numbers.

Do you have a link to a website that documents the 83 to 85 degree boiling point of thujone?
George of the jungle (Absinthoman)
Mousquetaire
Username: Absinthoman

Post Number: 13
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm sorry but you shouldn't take consideration of the boiling point of thujone on that site:
http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/htdocs/Chem_Background/ExecSumm/Thujone.html
I'm studiing in chemistry and I checked in the merck index(the best source for all chemists)and the boiling point of thujone is between 83c and 85c.
Kallisti (Admin)
Madame Guillotine
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1045
Registered: 1-1998


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

J, we should use that image for Ian's article. Weeee!
“A lady who has a secure seat is never prettier than when in the saddle, and she who cannot make her conquest there, may despair of the power of her charms elsewhere.” - THE MANNERS THAT WIN, 1880

http://www.feeverte.net
Refugee (Sheepprofessor)
Mousquetaire
Username: Sheepprofessor

Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

But it's not even really a component of absinthe. Absinthe (whether we're talking about the old days or now) contains so little of it as to make it inconsequential, both to the flavor and the effect. The sage that you use for making pasta sauce has more in it. Asking 'how much thujone?' is like asking the precise number of chocolate chips needed to make toll-house cookies: sure, they're in there, but you're kind of missing the forrest for the trees.

And please understand our point of view: We're a little prickly about the 'T' word because most of the people who use it (i.e. most of the people who show up here asking questions about it or making wild claims) do so because they think of it as the THC of absinthe. They're looking for some cheap, legal, and novel high that has nothing to do with the reality of either wormwood in its various forms, or absinthe, past or present. It's people like this that those of us who like the drink and wish it were legal want to discourage from their misconceptions. It is this kind of misinformation that led to it being banned in the first place.
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 30
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Seems like you missed the point of all those articles:"

Not really. I understand the articals just fine.

The problem is that you cant use the "T" word in a post to this forum without a bunch a people jumping to the conclusion that you are some kid on your parents AOL account looking for a cheap high that beats sniffing solvents.

Thujone is obvisously a component of Absinthe so I am interested in it from an ingredient standpoint only. Whether is causes any secondary effects is of little interest to me. If I want to get high there are plenty of more effective routes that are available.
Jay & The Imp (Thegreenimp)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Thegreenimp

Post Number: 278
Registered: 7-2001


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

thujone
Refugee (Sheepprofessor)
Mousquetaire
Username: Sheepprofessor

Post Number: 8
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Seems like you missed the point of all those articles: the scientific evidence suggests that thujone never did anything to anybody ever. It is all abolitionist hype.
While some people here believe that absinthe has a unique 'secondary' effect and others do not, no one seriously believes that this secondary effect is derived from thujone. From whence does it come? Good question, and one open to debate. But, as you pointed out, thujone would be eliminated by the distillation process. There's just no science to the claim that thujone does anything.

And if you really want to try for yourself, go to any of the European vendors and buy a bottle of so-called 'high-thujone' absinthe and have yourself a little taste test. Unless you are dramatically different physiologically from the rest of us, you will experience nothing remarkably different than you would with F. Guy's purportedly 'low-thujone' absinthe. Except maybe a nasty hang-over from the low-quality of alcohol used.
mattm3 (Mattm3)
le Duc
Username: Mattm3

Post Number: 324
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 6:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I feel like I'm back in school again Try this site http://www.homedistiller.org/ You can find out anything about anything on overture.com
How sweet life can be when the misery of ones existance is blurred by slight intoxication!!!
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 28
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 6:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Whoa.

Boiling Point: 201°C (FEMA, 1997)

That would lead one to beleive that very little or no thujone would be carried over in the D process.....

Interesting. T cant come from D and everyone is telling me here that is doesnt come from soaking either.

Mysterious stuff.
mattm3 (Mattm3)
le Duc
Username: Mattm3

Post Number: 322
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 6:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here ya go

http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/htdocs/Chem_Background/ExecSumm/Thujone.html
How sweet life can be when the misery of ones existance is blurred by slight intoxication!!!
ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1763
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 5:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Around here, anything thujone blows up @ room temperature.

As you may have noticed.
Will work for absinthe.
2LY!!! (2loucheltrec)
le Duc
Username: 2loucheltrec

Post Number: 277
Registered: 3-2002


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"I done read that post 10 times."

one word, comprehendtion(sp?).

"Thujone destruction temperature, please? "

who cares

or

figure it out yourself... like others who have walked the path before you.
I like mustard (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3401
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ah yes, good old Tenacious "D"
Crosby (Crosby)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Crosby

Post Number: 537
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Rant like Don contest 2003. Who's first?

C'est ma santé
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

WTF, are we running circles here now? I done read that post 10 times.

It is just a technical question: Thujone destruction temperature, please?

Jay & The Imp (Thegreenimp)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Thegreenimp

Post Number: 276
Registered: 7-2001


Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I wish Don was here now.......
Z (Zman7)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Zman7

Post Number: 295
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

http://www.feeverte.net/thujone.html
Imperial Order of Absinthe
Mr_green_jeans (Mr_green_jeans)
Paysan
Username: Mr_green_jeans

Post Number: 4
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

mmmmmmmmmm. thuuuuujonnnnnnne. -- H. Simpson
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 23
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Can we please try to keep it civil this time?

Anyway my question is, without getting into a technical discussion about the "D" word, just how much thujone do you suppose is carried over in the D process? In other words - at what temperature is thujone destroyed? Seems like it would be a much more fragile molecule than the essential oils (anise, camphor, fennel, and the like) that are carried over in the tail end of the D process (ooops!).

Anyone have any decent data or references? We can discuss thujone destruction temps cant we?

At this point I suggest that the answers be limited to thujone stability and destruction temps only. NOT the "D" process or discussion of whether the presence of thujone has anything to do with absinthe (real, historical, or otherwise).

Thanks again

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