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Archive through May 20, 2003

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum » Strictly Absinthe & Collectibles » Sorry and Fennel, What Fennel? » Archive through May 20, 2003 « Previous Next »

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ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1822
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here, morels will put your bank account in hell. They're $55/pound.
Will work for absinthe.
Moonman's friend (Wolfgang)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Wolfgang

Post Number: 940
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

...and yes, lack of morels will bring you to hell !
Moonman's friend (Wolfgang)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Wolfgang

Post Number: 939
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Now back on topic with some info from the Moon...

Come on guys, you`r willing to pay hundreds of $ on cheap absinthes and you'r not willing to find an online herb shop and order a small bag of all the basic ingredients ? No, I can't believe that!

Order at least those herbs, smell it and taste it :

green anis seeds
fennel seeds
wormwood (artemisia absinthium)
star anis
artemisia pontica (only available from cascadeherbs@yahoo.com via email)
melissa
hyssop




There`s links to some herb shops there :
http://www.sepulchritude.com/chapelperilous/absinthe/absinthe-sources.html


I have ordered fennel from many sources (for learning purpose of course...) and I can tell you that the taste, smell and quality of fennel can vary a lot from one source to the other. Sometimes it is closer to anis (sweet)and sometimes it is very ''green'', herbal and dry (not sweet).

Green anis can also vary a lot. Most of the time you will find big brown seeds (usually comes from spain) but sometimes you may find much smaller and greener one that are also nice.

If you find some small and almost gray ones, it`s not good and it`s probably because some anethol have already be extracted from those seeds (they often resale those already extracted seeds at the supermarket in small spice bottles for cooking).


Wormwood can also vary a lot. A good example of properly harvested wormwood will let you see many tiny yellow flower buds in the bag. If you see only leaves and twigs, it`s not as good and aromatic.

Unfortunately, for all those herbs, "organically grown" doesn't always means "good" ...

Also unfortunately, artemisia pontica is very hard to find and the only close thing to "online source" I know is cascade herbs. You can order some from them but it will be difficult to know if it's good or not because there's no comparison... Unless you can find the live plant somewhere, grow it yourself, harvest it when it's ready and dry it properly and very slowly not to burn the chlorophyll (can be done with a good dehydrator).

As a nice bonus, artemisia pontica makes a nice garden plant. It is possible to find live plants online. I don't know about US sources of live pontica because I have only ordered from my own country.

Why did I ordered only from my own country ? Because customs don't like live material... I've learned that when I tried to bring back live cuttings that where given to me by Mme Delahayes.

Anyway, if you want to know what's the smell and taste of a given herb, order it and see for yourself, it is that simple and it is not very expensive.
Moonman's friend (Wolfgang)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Wolfgang

Post Number: 938
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Campari and Soda...

Kaladmin, try this :

''Un gros moine rouge''

1oz green chartreuse
2oz Campari
Tonic water (about 9 oz to fill the glass)
Slice of lime
Ice cube

You can also add an extra 1oz of absinthe blanche to transform this into a killer drink but first try the normal Gros Moine Rouge, one of my creation.
Crosby (Crosby)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Crosby

Post Number: 544
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I suffer from a lack of morels.
C'est ma santé
ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1818
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I miss morels.
Will work for absinthe.
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 126
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I would also add that star anise has a hotter flavor than anise.
I like mustard (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3417
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

And Morel mushrooms are supposed to
taste like ground moss and mildew.

DAMN!!!!

I just threw out 14 dollars worth of
fungus.
Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 779
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"nobody can give a few more qualitative description to the flavor of wormwood other than funky or fucky."

That's about the only accurate assessment you've made of any of us here. A set of descriptors for absinthe tasting is something we were going to get around to one day, but never did. But even so, wormwood tastes like wormwood. It's really that simple.

"what's the flavor difference between absinthe and anisette."

The best absinthe is like a flower garden coming to life in your mouth. You haven't tasted any like that yet, trust me, or you'd know it. Anisette? It's crap.
Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 998
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Angelica and coriander also contain coumarin, precursor to an anticoagulant also used as rat poison. I think anise and wormwood may have a small quantity of coumarin as well...
Kallisti (Admin)
Madame Guillotine
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1052
Registered: 1-1998


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Morrigan introduced me to Campari and Soda. YUMM.

Campari is a Bitter. Bitters will remind you of absinthe, except they are more bitter. But it's that whole bitter thing, ya know? They also tend to be herbal, which will again remind you of absinthe. Campari has also been around for 100+ years.


“A lady who has a secure seat is never prettier than when in the saddle, and she who cannot make her conquest there, may despair of the power of her charms elsewhere.” - THE MANNERS THAT WIN, 1880

http://www.feeverte.net
ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1814
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 8:57 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

It's red.
Will work for absinthe.
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 39
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Now we (or I am anyway) are getting somewhere. I like that: earthy, loamy, musky, funky, fucking a lemon(?). All good

Thanks, All

One other thing. What the hell is Campari anyway. I tried some for the first time Saturday nite. Tasted similar to absinthe! (But then again, EVERYTING is starting to taste like absinthe to me) Really good after a high fat/high carb Italian meal
The Red Pigeon (Icarus)
le Duc
Username: Icarus

Post Number: 328
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 8:01 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

You should post these hebal descriptions in the FAQ...
Kallisti (Admin)
Madame Guillotine
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1051
Registered: 1-1998


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 7:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

and its the fennel *seeds* that are used.

Nabber, in case you are interested, I'll post my own review of an vintage pre-ban Berger Absinthe. I'm not a tasting expert, but spent some time in a perfume shop and developed a wee bit of a nose.

"The first whiff is surprisingly potent, sharp and anisey. By the third whiff a strong artemisia waft that is thick and comforting. Without water the alcohol percentage is very high! It burns, and is very heating, almost so much so that it has a cinnamon effect. A touch of water (I am working with a very small sample) and the waft is mellowing and the perfume of hyssop pervades. The anise is not so strong as an initial whiff would have you think, strong hyssop & melissa and the sharp artemisia on the sides of the tongue but not strongly bitter by any means. But aside from the numb tongue, you'd hardly notice the anise, it is so balanced with the other herbs. Very bright & vibrant, flavors and layers are distinct and knowable. I would almost say muscley. There is no comparison with any of the currently available commercial brands that I have on my shelf that even come close to the potency and almost florid quality."

And to clarify a bit because I was writing for folks who know what hyssop and melissa taste like:

hyssop - a pale floral almost grassy flavor (my favorite)
melissa - citrusy mint. can taste like furniture polish if used unwisely
fennel - slightly nuttier than anise and not sweet
anise - sweet anisy/licorice flavor. star anise is much more florid. anise provides the numbing effect. anise, used well, will impart a light sweetness all its own, completely unlike the sticky addition of sugars or syrops.
artemisia absinthium - used in times past as an agent in perfume, properly distilled is very florid and perfumey. it is difficult to describe, but if you've smelled it you know. it's not like munching on it raw. *smell* it and you'll get a better idea.
Roman Wormwood - much paler, more grassy than Grand Wormwood above.

More later, perhaps... I have to go to work.
“A lady who has a secure seat is never prettier than when in the saddle, and she who cannot make her conquest there, may despair of the power of her charms elsewhere.” - THE MANNERS THAT WIN, 1880

http://www.feeverte.net
mattm3 (Mattm3)
le Duc
Username: Mattm3

Post Number: 390
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 5:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Anise is another one of the main herbs used in making legitimate Absinthe. It is not toxic, however a strong dose induces drunkenness, trembling, epileptic convulsions, muscle spasms, analgesia and sleep, just like opium.
Fennel, as has anise seed, fennel seed has a potentially psychoactive anethole.
Hyssop, in progressive doses, is believed to have a convulsive property.
Angelica root is grown as a drug in Lapland.
Coriander is mentioned as an aphrodisiac in the Arabic One Thousand and One Nights, and is said, in the same text, to conjure up the Devil when used in combination with fennel.
Calamis contains psychoactive asarones, used as an inebriant by Native Americans.
So we are left wondering if Absinthe, or rather wormwood and its essence thujone in Absinthe, is to blame for its effects.

From absinth.com
How sweet life can be when the misery of ones existance is blurred by slight intoxication!!!

August Strindburg
mattm3 (Mattm3)
le Duc
Username: Mattm3

Post Number: 389
Registered: 4-2003


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 5:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Fennel and anise balence each other.
How sweet life can be when the misery of ones existance is blurred by slight intoxication!!!

August Strindburg
ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1808
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 5:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

It's like fuckin' a dirty lemon peel.
Will work for absinthe.
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 581
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I just transplanted some Artemisia Absinthium from the railroad tracks to my backyard. I think fresh wormwood also has a citrous-ey taste. Like a lemon or lime peel.
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 996
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

No, the fishy smell is something else.

Wormwood tastes like wormwood. The reason it is easy to say that "anise tastes like licorice" is that most people know what licorice tastes like. If there is anything that tastes like wormwood (other than other artemisias), it is unlikely that it is something that you've tasted before.

You want wine-connoisseur words? How about "earthy" or "loamy" or "musky"? You say you have grand and petite wormwood in the garden? Go stick your face in them and inhale. You'll get the idea.


quote:

Where I am going with this is (and please dont shit all over me too much), what's the flavor difference between absinthe and anisette.



Well, as I said, anisette tastes pretty much like anise and alcohol. Absinthe has at least two or three other herbal tones in combination with that, sometimes many more. Absinthe is (generally) much drier, higher in proof, more aromatic and complex, floral and earthy, with a TOUCH of bitterness, when compared to anisette.
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 38
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

So that "funky" taste may be that "fishy" smell that I get sometimes (not me the Absinthe!)? I can start to see that. But that's it?

I am tired of arguing and you guys have worn me out. So I will resolve to be nice. But with all due respect for a bunch of absinthe experts, nobody can give a few more qualitative description to the flavor of wormwood other than funky or fucky. I know beer and wine geeks who can go on for hours on half-a-dozen or so attributes in a single glass of their favorite beverage.

Where I am going with this is (and please dont shit all over me too much), what's the flavor difference between absinthe and anisette. Aside from the obvious ingredients that they are made from, what are the qualitative differences from a taste standpoint? I mean they both pretty much taste like anise. (Oh, and I should have said earlier that anise taste kind of like licorice)

As far as fennel goes*. I asked this one earlier, but still am not sure of the answer that I got. I grow fennel of florence in my garden (it makes great stuffing for pork roast). My question is this: What portion of the fennel is used in making absinthe? The bulb or the seeds?

*Incidently, how do you change the subject of a new post. Every time I try to post, the subject line defaults to a couple of posts that I maid early on. The original title of the post was supposed to be "What does Wormwood Taste Like?", not "fennel, What Fennel?"

ENORMUS DICK (Louched_liver)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Louched_liver

Post Number: 1802
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wormwood is like sex and dirt.
Will work for absinthe.
Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 776
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"So when I am tasting my bottle of UE 68, what exact flavors are attributed to the wormwood used in the process."

It's hard to describe, but you'll know it once you know it.

"Several have claimed here that the bitterness is left behind."

They are correct.

"I believe this to be mostly true because the refined (distilled) product has very little bitterness compared to a wormwood soak."

The distillation won't bring much of the bitterness over. Soaking wormwood in alcohol will extract bitterness, but that has nothing to do with distillation.

"I can deffinately taste the licorice flavor from the anise."

It's not licorice; it's anise. Anise is a seed; licorice is a root from an entirely different plant. Taste them side by side and you'll see.

"What is the taste of distilled wormwood? What exactly am I looking for that deferentiates an absinthe from a anisette, for instance?"

Absinthe = Anise, Fennel and Wormwood. Anise tastes like anise. Fennel is kind of piney/funky. Wormwood is hard to describe, but once you know it, you'll recognize it again.
Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 993
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

If you have smelled fresh wormwood, which one would infer you have, then you have a general idea of what the flavor is. It is sublte, and a LITTLE bit bitter (think tonic water, not sucking an aspirin), and kinda...funky. Like the smell of a room where people have been fucking for many hours.

What differentiates good absinthe from anisette (and bad absinthe) is that there is a complexity and dimension to the aroma and flavor. Anisette tastes like anise and alcohol. Mari Mayans Absenta (as an example of a not-so-good absinthe) tastes like star anise and alcohol. Better absinthes have a slightly floral flavor, maybe a touch of grassy or minty depending on what went into the mix. The taste and aroma will become more complex when louched because more essential oils come out of suspension, and as you sip it you will detect different notes as it moves across your tongue.

I'm sorry if this is kinda vague, but much of it is something that comes from experience. I can tell a Cuban cigar by smoking it, but I wouldn't be able to explain how to someone who hasn't smoked before.

Incidentally, there is a difference between the taste of licorice and the taste of anise (and between the tastes of green (true) anise and star anise). They are similar, but it is worth learning the difference. Green anise (in my experience) tends to "open up" the tastebuds, while licorice is more numbing to the tongue.

And yes, fennel, which also falls into the category of anise-like flavors, again with its own special qualities.
Nabber86 (Nabber86)
Mousquetaire
Username: Nabber86

Post Number: 37
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Monday, May 19, 2003 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

So when I am tasting my bottle of UE 68, what exact flavors are attributed to the wormwood used in the process. Several have claimed here that the bitterness is left behind. I believe this to be mostly true because the refined (distilled) product has very little bitterness compared to a wormwood soak.

I can deffinately taste the licorice flavor from the anise. What is the taste of distilled wormwood? What exactly am I looking for that deferentiates an absinthe from a anisette, for instance?

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