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Archive through July 27, 2003

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum » The Monkey Hole » RIAA Cartel on the Attack » Archive through July 27, 2003 « Previous Next »

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Mssr. Kallisti (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3746
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You funny.
GO LIVE !!!
Georgie Boy (Mighty Fine Young Man) (Lediablevert)
le Duc
Username: Lediablevert

Post Number: 188
Registered: 6-2003


Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I LIKE TO DOWNLOAD FOOD OFF THE INTERNET.
>-I AM TROLLING FOR WALLEYE*> >--walleye-/*>
>----walleye--/*>
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 176
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yeah, most people download what they hear on the radio, but there are a lot of independent bands that have mp3s available to download. You just have to hunt for them and sift through a lot of mediocre material. The industry treats it's artists as bad as they treat their customers. Check some of the other pages on the RAC website. Especially this one, it's long, but it's very informative.
http://www.recordingartistscoalition.com/rip.html

Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1134
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

If they allowed you to download it for free, are you allowed to trade it when they change that philosophy?




Technically, allowing a work to be freely distributed does not abridge the creators' rights to the work. This is a pretty big issue with software, where the cretors make pretty explicit licensing guidelines when they ditribute anything (even a patch or driver) without charge. Since no formal license usually made when a band lets an MP3 be downloaded, all the rights pretty much remain with the creators, and they can revoke them at any time.

Now, realistically, once something is on the ether, there is fuck-all you can do about it...
Raschied Britannica (Raschied)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Raschied

Post Number: 343
Registered: 3-2002


Posted on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 6:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The radio industry has undergone a major major shift since I quit the business in the mid-90's. The laws used to state that no company could own more than one AM, one FM, and one newspaper in a single market. To me, this kept the competition really fierce, and kept up the diversity.

They first opened it up a bit in '93-'94, and it was like a feeding frenzy. As an employee, our benefits changed every other month, as the station was bought, sold, and traded like a baseball card.

Now, in Sacramento, ALL of the rock stations are owned by the same company. Each one is specially 'tailored' to a specific segment of the percieved 'rock' market, meaning they are all programmed by the same guy who looks at what R&R's charts are, and sticks with that.

The last true 'indie' rock station in Sac, KWOD, was recently gobbled up in a hostile takeover, leaving the previous owner crying, literally, on the front steps on the eve of the transfer.

I hadn't seen the payola thing before, but it makes perfect sense. What's that saying? "Old age and treachery will beat out youth and exhuberance every time."

Listen to www.radioparadise.com instead.


Rock over London, Rock on Chicago.
Pontiac - We build Excitement.
Pervert Euchre (Perruche_verte)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Perruche_verte

Post Number: 492
Registered: 12-2000


Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks for the wakeup call, Bob. You win. I knew they had their tricks but didn't know it had gotten quite this bad. I love how matter-of-fact one of the radio execs ABC interviewed is about it: "...are we going to be the only major broadcasting group out there not taking advantage of that?"

But I still resent the idea that in order to compete with those bastards, independent artists have to give their work away for free. I'm not even sure it's that effective: I'll bet 90% of file sharing consists of stuff that already has wide commercial distribution. That's how people know that they want it.

Do you think most people go to MP3.com and CDBaby.com and look for new independent music, or do they get on Kazaa and look for free downloads by people who are already somewhat famous?
"Drink accomplished what God did not." --Marguerite Duras
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 171
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I know what you mean Blackjack, most of the music I've downloaded is stuff I already own on tape, but I don't want to hook old worn tapes up to my PC, record them and then have to clean up the sound, when I could just download it.

Perruche verte, here is how it works. "Record labels sidestep payola laws by hiring independent record promoters to pay stations "annual budgets."" It gets even closer to direct payment since,"Most independent promoters base their budget deals with radio stations on the bank formula concept, a model in which an internal log lists the date the station airs a song followed by a specific dollar figure the station will be paid by the artist's label..."
http://www.recordingartistscoalition.com/payola.html

It was on 20/20 before, that's where I heard the specifics of how it works. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/2020/2020_payola_020524.html

I think this probably has more to do with decreasing record sales than Napster or other P2P networks. Who wants to listen to music picked and promoted by some old man who is the CEO of a large company. Look didn't Sony pay Michael Jackson over a billion dollars, obviously the old Japanese CEO of Sony has greatly different musical tastes than I do. Most of what I like gets little or no air time, and certainly none of what I listen to is popular with CEOs of the music industry.
Baz (Baz)
le Duc
Username: Baz

Post Number: 179
Registered: 3-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I wonder what the legalities are for a band that used to allow free downloads but now won't allow them. Lava Baby did that, I think. If they allowed you to download it for free, are you allowed to trade it when they change that philosophy? What if you don't know they changed their mind?

Maybe I should contact a lawyer!
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1132
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Trading songs without permission is no more "free publicity" than taking candy out of the bin without permission is a "free sample". A "free sample" is free for you, not the person giving it away, so THEY are the ones who get to decide.

I've known bands that let you download whole albums from their website, or laughed at me when I told them I was buying an album at a show in pennance for downloading it from Usenet. I've also known artists who were genuinely upset by knowing people were getting their music without paying. But that is THEIR choice. Or should be. The fact that most major artists have little control over their works doesn't change the fact that they SHOULD.

Of course, I kinda make up my own rules. If I purchased an album on cassette in 1985, as far as I'm concerned I purchased a license for that work, and I'm entitled to download it, so long as I don't give away or sell the cassette (which was probably lost in my car 12 years ago...) The courts won't agree with that interpretation, but it works for me...
Pervert Euchre (Perruche_verte)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Perruche_verte

Post Number: 491
Registered: 12-2000


Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The stations are not literally "paid to play music"; ever heard the term 'payola'? DJs do get paid indirectly, by being hired to appear at promotional events. But it's really having a label with a team of interns calling a particular DJ every week to track the airplay of a promo single that will get results (some of the time), especially with the college stations.

That doesn't change the relationship between creator and marketer. Commercial radio stations run on ad revenue. Music is the bait, a product put out to attract a particular listener profile to whom advertisers can sell soft drinks, car insurance, personal care products, etc.
Musicians forget this at their peril. I'm sure there are individual DJs who love the music and play what they love, whether it's being hyped by big money or not, but thanks to the FCC and the media conglomerates they are a dwindling species.
"Drink accomplished what God did not." --Marguerite Duras
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 167
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

But radio station are paid to play music by promoters that work for the music companies. Most small bands would love to get played on the radio stations, but they can't afford to hire a promotional company to pay the radio stations.

Pervert Euchre (Perruche_verte)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Perruche_verte

Post Number: 489
Registered: 12-2000


Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 1:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Remember, musicians don't just get "publicity" when their songs are played on the radio. They are supposed to get PAID for this. That's how publishing & performance rights work. The radio station pays a fee to ASCAP and BMI, and the musician receives some ridiculously small amount based on the number of times the song is played.

Anyone who offers a musician nothing but "free publicity" in exchange for performance or publication is offering an intangible quality in exchange for a tangible service, and shouldn't be taken seriously.
"Drink accomplished what God did not." --Marguerite Duras
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1130
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

It's not one traded MP3. The way the law is phrased, it is assumed that any MP3 made availible on a P2P network is going to be copied 10 times.

Assumed, meaning they don't have to prove it was even copied once.

And it also assumes that the retail value of ten copies of a song is $2500, making it a felony. CD's are expensive, but not THAT expensive.

Of course, the way the P2P file-sharing works, if there are many copies of a file on the network, chances are NONE of them are getting downloaded in their entirety. Instead, the person downloads a small chunk from each server and reassembles them into the file.

Is a chunk of code that is unreadible as music without the rest of the file technically a piece of music?
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 165
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You would think they would come up with a reasonable compromise to allow people to share music, after all it's free publicity. They have to pay to get there music on the radio. But no, they have their sock puppets in congress who are making the penalties higher, and think one traded MP3 should put a person in jail.
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1129
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The only model I can see working would be something like a personal ASCAP license, but covering LIMITED reproduction, not just performance, of the recorded work. (This is where net radio is getting screwed. The RIAA insists that netcasting is reproduction and distribution, not just preformance, so they expect a bigger cut than they would get from over-air radio...)
Mssr. Kallisti (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3704
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 7:49 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

HAHAHAHAHA...

YOU SEE? YOU SEE
HOW ZEE MOONMAN EEZ!!!!
GO LIVE !!!
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 632
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Actual conversation:

MY SISTER-IN-LAW: I love Celine Dion!
ME: I hate the way she sings. It's a crescendo all the way through the song. She's way over-dramatic.
MY SISTER-IN-LAW: Well of course she's dramatic! She's Canadian.


Mssr. Kallisti (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3702
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 7:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Instead they force feed
the public Celine Dion.



I can't believe I got suckered
into that purchase. I never even
saw TITANIC...
GO LIVE !!!
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 630
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't download music, because the sound quality of MP3 sucks. I can hear the difference and I bet most people can. The record companies are offering a superior product, but they just charge way too much. If they marketed to people who like recordings that sound good and charged a reasonable price, they'd do alright.
Pervert Euchre (Perruche_verte)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Perruche_verte

Post Number: 487
Registered: 12-2000


Posted on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Good for you, Blackjack.

Neither the "pro" or the "anti" side really deserves or gets any of my sympathy, since it's really a case of large bloodsucking corporations vs. smaller, faster bloodsucking corporations. The fans, up until now, have been encouraged to take up arms for one side or another, with the artists out in no man's land getting shot by both sides.

The RIAA is shooting themselves in the foot this time. They are not protecting my 'rights' or the rights of any musician I know. They are now making it very plain that what they're protecting is their own right to screw us.

Maybe the answer is user fees levied from the ISPs themselves. They encourage us all to believe we can download unlimited quantities of free music/art/porn anyway, so why not make them pay for it? They will, of course, pass those fees onto the consumer, but no one ever promised us a rose garden.

(Of course, I admit that I've benefited from free downloads... like the guy in DieselSweeties.com says, I see more naked people than I ever did, now that I never leave my home...)

These articles are old, but still applicable:

http://davidgrenier.com/journal/46

(Quote: The problem is that most people's enthusiasm for Napster doesn't come from some sort of real "stick it to the man" analysis, it comes from a Wal*Mart mentality that the consumer deserves as much as possible for the lowest price possible.)

http://www.furious.com/perfect/indiedownloads.html

(Quote: If you planted a garden and brought its fruits to term, and then a bunch of friends dug it all up in the night and waited for you to feed them again next year, would you? Do vegetables really just want to be free?)
"Drink accomplished what God did not." --Marguerite Duras
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1127
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I wouldn't do if they didn't call it piracy, yaaar!

But seriously, when was the last time a corporation wrote a song? If an ARTIST tells me not to copy his work, that's one thing, but the record companies have made their millions by screwing artists out of control of their own creations. It is deeply hypocritical of them to suddenly make like they are so concerned about intellectual property rights. They just realize that their entire existance was founded on a monopoly on the means of distribution and promotion, and that since these means have opened up, they aren't really needed.

You can see this by looking at their attempts at electronic distribution. Invariably they charge as much, or more, per song as you would pay buying the physical album, despite the fact that they don't have to pay to press, package, deliver and stock the CD.

I actually feel guilty about some of the MP3's I've pirated, specifically from small-name artists who actually get money from their disc sales. The last time I saw Voltaire he said "any of you people who got my songs off of Kazaa, well, buy me a slice of pizza or something..."
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 628
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 8:33 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Just imagine if the oil-change industry allowed the public to have direct access to oil and oil filters, enabling them to change their car's oil themselves without going through Jiffy Lube or Kwik Lube. People would stop going to oil-change shops, and the entire industry would collapse."


http://www.theonion.com/onion3618/kid_rock_starves.html






Mssr. Kallisti (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3695
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"They're stealing my pennies!" -Cheryl Crow
GO LIVE !!!
MC Peepants (Fluffy_g)
le Vicomte
Username: Fluffy_g

Post Number: 93
Registered: 3-2003


Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I feel like such a criminal. Next they should try to make ya pay to listen to the radio. They must not realize how easy it is to record music off the radio. That'll keep crooks like me from taking all their barrels of money.
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 164
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"On Friday the lobby group that works on behalf of the large, mostly foreign-owned, music conglomerates that own the music copyrights and distribution channels confirmed that it was serving subpoenas at the rate of 75 a day on US citizens for the crime of sharing the music they love."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/31833.html

Something some some of you might be interested in.

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