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Archive through September 10, 2003

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum » Strictly Absinthe & Collectibles » Stevia vs. Sugar » Archive through September 10, 2003 « Previous Next »

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Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1204
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

And hey, wow, this stevia stuff also induces hypoglycemia and infertility! (If you're a rat and you're injected with lots of it anyway...)

Which just further belies the idea that "natural" always equals "safe".

And don't give me that nonsense about an FDA conspiracy to protect aspartame's market share. The patent on aspartame is up, anyway, and the FDA hasn't stopped other new sweeteners from hitting the market. That, and the EU and WHO have ALSO said that stevioside (the active ingredient) has not been proven safe enough for use in foods. The places where it is legal are such paragons of food-safety as South Korea, China and Brazil...
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1203
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

You may or not want to believe what is going on with our food sources, but the fact that the sales of organic foods are growing at the rate of 20% per year is an indication that this is a concern to more and more informed people throughout the world.




That's what we call Argumentum ad numerum. Just because a large number of people do something, that doesn't mean it is right. And, indeed, I'd be wary of associating any mass action with "informed people".

You know what the problem is with our food supply, from a medical perspective? There's too damn much of it. Far more disease and death is caused by the fact that we consume too many calories, and too many saturated fats, than could ever be caused by pesticides, genetic modification, or any of the other bogeymen people like to toss around.

Of course, if everyone turned to organic farming, it might well solve this problem as well, since it would only take a few good blights to burn off that excess...

It is kinda ironic that people who support organic farming also usually oppose GM, since one of the strengths of GM is that it allows us to create strains with an innate resistance to disease and insects, thus reducing the need for pesticides and such.
balzdeep (Swarez)
Mousquetaire
Username: Swarez

Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2002


Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

There is a large difference between what is normally available in your grocery store,organic foods, and genetically modified foods. The large influx of organic foods is increasing, and has create a nice niche market, but in no way has changed the way crops are produced. The majority of the farmers do not change the way they farm to produce these organic foods, but if they are lucky enough to get through the year without pesticides/antibiotics they have an automatic increased price on their product. However, they will use pesticides/Ab's at the first sign of trouble without hesitation -- that product just gets sold on the standard market with a lower price.

It all comes down to paperwork, not actual testing of the food products.

GM crops have been around since the 1980's, and while there are negative aspects they are delt with to ensure that you can continue to use them.

That being said, I'm gonna quit my tangent -- Really belongs in the monkeyhole. Sorry to all who had to read this and think, "who the fuck cares."
Hell, at least I can lick myself...
Hobart (Hobart)
Paysan
Username: Hobart

Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Without going into all the gory deatils regarding GM corn (and soy), I instead direct all of you to the following site:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/.
You may or not want to believe what is going on with our food sources, but the fact that the sales of organic foods are growing at the rate of 20% per year is an indication that this is a concern to more and more informed people throughout the world.
Ask your friends in Europe who produce most of the absinthe we drink. They are even more focused on this than we are in the States.
balzdeep (Swarez)
Mousquetaire
Username: Swarez

Post Number: 46
Registered: 12-2002


Posted on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"and certainly better for you than high fructose corn syrup, considering that most corn is now geneticly modified."

Most corn raised today is NOT genetically modified, due to issues regarding export restrictions. 100% of the modified corn that is raised today (which poses no threat if consumed anyways -- you still get protein, CHO's, and of course, undigested corn in your poop) is fed to cattle, pigs, horses, sheep, goats, and of course poultry. In the US it is currently illegal to use "genetically modified" corn or other cereal grains for human consumption (hybridization is not included here, as that is Naturally modifying your food).

However, fruits and vegetables, especially those imported, do not fall into many of the categories that prohibit genetically modified foods to enter the food chain.

Gonna stop me from drinking a boat drink though? HELL NO!
Hell, at least I can lick myself...
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1202
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You know that's stuff's banned by the FDA as a food additive because it causes chromasome damage, right? I mean, wormwood is banned by the FDA too, but the research on stevia is a little more...recent. Do a PubMed search.
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1201
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

So...it's not a calorie issue by chossing stevia (or even organic sugar) as it is a health issue.




Then why the hell are you drinking high-proof alcohol? Again, the unheatly effects of ethanol are far greater than those of sugar.

And as for being "better for you" than sugar: sugar isn't bad for you, except maybe your teeth. Sucrose breaks down into glucose almost immediately, and glucose is what your body runs on. I mean, simple sugars shouldn't be the bulk of your diet, but that is true of ANY source of calories. Unless you're a diabetic or an Inuit, the only advantage stevia is going to have over sugar is caloric. And if you're a diabetic or an Inuit, you should be taking it easy on the absinthe anyway.
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 217
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I prefer the taste of sugar over other sweetners. As far as corn being genetically modified, I couldn't care less.
Hobart (Hobart)
Paysan
Username: Hobart

Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Stevia is an herb and is sweeter than sugar. And it is better for you than sugar; and certainly better for you than high fructose corn syrup, considering that most corn is now geneticly modified. So...it's not a calorie issue by chossing stevia (or even organic sugar) as it is a health issue. Why add extra sugar to alcohol, particularly if it is crummy processed stuff? As for NutraSweet and Sweet & Low? Don't even go there.
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 674
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, September 8, 2003 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

[sorry, wrong thread]



Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1200
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Monday, September 8, 2003 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Coke lost LOTS of money over the New Coke fiasco, so the idea that it was a marketing scheme is absurd. Basically, it was a response to the sagging sales of regular Coke and the sudden popularity of Diet Coke. New Coke was essentially Diet Coke with corn syrup instead of aspartame. Diet Coke had been based on an entirely new ground-up recipe, instead of just replacing the sugar with artificial sweetener in the Coke recipe (see Tab...) People seemed to prefer the new recipe so much, they decided to try it in their flagship product. If they hadn't told anybody, it would probably have worked...

And the quanitity of formaldwhyde created by aspartame is trivial. Phenylalanine and aspartic acid exist in many foods naturally, and the former is necessary to form dopamine and norepinephrine. Really, if it was that bad, it would have made itself more obvious by now, considering the sheer quantity of it consumed.
Raschied Britannica (Raschied)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Raschied

Post Number: 370
Registered: 3-2002


Posted on Sunday, September 7, 2003 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Nutrasweet also inhibits the receptor in your brain that receives the "I'm full" message from your stomach.

BTW - Somewhere I read a great report that "New Coke" was planned as a failure to boost sales and awareness of regular Coke. It did have that result, causing "Coke Classic" sales to be over twice what they were before the introduction of New Coke.
Ya gotta love species
That fling their own feces!
GO! SKAT! THROW!!
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 216
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 7, 2003 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Even better than it's phenylalalicious taste, is that it breaks down into formaldehyde. Mmmmmm... formaldehyde. Nothing else quite has the taste of a diet soda thats been stored to long or in warm temperatures.
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1199
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Sunday, September 7, 2003 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

But it's phenylalalicious! It's a sweetener AND an amino-acid supplement!

They still use sugar in other parts of the world, so check your local bodega for Mexican Coke. No, Coca-COLA, you freaks. It really is much better.

Interestingly, Coke made the change to corn syrup with no fanfare, and nobody blinked an eye. The only reason people rebelled against "New Coke" (which was less of a flavor change than the switch from sugar) was that they were TOLD about it.
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 215
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Saturday, September 6, 2003 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I know what you mean about corn syrup Blackjack, but I would rather drink plain water than anything with nutrasweet in it.
Raschied Britannica (Raschied)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Raschied

Post Number: 368
Registered: 3-2002


Posted on Saturday, September 6, 2003 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Has anyone tried corn syrup in their absinthe?


Ya gotta love species
That fling their own feces!
GO! SKAT! THROW!!
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1198
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Saturday, September 6, 2003 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I drink diet soda because I prefer the taste. The corn syrup used in most soft drinks is way too sweet for me.
Bob (I_b_puffin)
le Duc
Username: I_b_puffin

Post Number: 213
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Friday, September 5, 2003 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yea, I don't worry about calories when drinking. Reminds me of someone who orders a diet soda, and then gets two double decker hamburgers, an extra large order of fries, and an apple pie.
Traineraz (Traineraz)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Traineraz

Post Number: 967
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well put, Blackjack . . that and most (commercially-available, oil-mix) absinthes have added sugar anyway . . . I still don't use sugar even in Emile, though I guess the sweetness is more from the limited anise.
He who would sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither.

-- Thus Spake Zoboomafoo
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 667
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

>Pataphysician, look at the post number on your post below. This just confirms what I've always suspected...

Yes, I noticed that right after I made my devilish comment, and I wanted to make celebratatory post, like when the odometer rolls over, and alert everyone, but I knew that then it would be 667 and that would be no good at all.
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 1197
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Why? If you're worried about calories, you should be more worried about the alcohol (7cal/g) than the sugar (4cal/g). Not that the average absinthe drip will have that many calories. You're looking at 100-200 calories for the alcohol (depending on the proof) and about 25 cal. per sugar cube. It's mostly water, after all.

If you are worried about carbohydrate intake (either because of diabetes or because the Atkins fad), then you shouldn't be drinking alcohol in the first place, because it destroys the glycogen stores in your liver and throws your carbohydrate balance all out of whack.
The Levitating Grin Salesman (Rimbaud)
le Duc
Username: Rimbaud

Post Number: 341
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Thursday, September 4, 2003 - 7:17 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I hear that, Zman7. I always have sugar with my absinthe. For me, there is no other way to drink it. Pataphysician, look at the post number on your post below. This just confirms what I've always suspected...
"Please pardon our appearance while we are levitating..."
Z (Zman7)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Zman7

Post Number: 359
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sugar, for me anyway, adds more than just sweetness to my absinthe. The added sugar also adds a rounding/enhancing of the flavors, as well as texture to the mouthfeel of the drink.
Imperial Order of Absinthe
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 666
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

No.
Hobart (Hobart)
Paysan
Username: Hobart

Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 3, 2003 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Has anyone ever tried substituting Stevia (for example, see: www.wisdomherbs.com) for sugar?

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