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Harry Potter or Harry Pothead?

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Perruche_Verte
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

They have little microchips in them so they can speak Spanish to you? *shrug*
Traineraz
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

More importantly, what on earth are "Hispanic" foods? (as labelled at the Safeway at Rancho Vistoso, a purty-darned-white subdivision)
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ooh- and still is, of course, depending where you are and what neighborhood you live in.

Forgot that part.
Mr_Rabid
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I submit to you, O learned colleauges, that the assumption on the part of the listener of hostile intent in the use of a word is the cause and crux of this matter.

For instance, should you call me 'honkey' and happen to be caucasian, I would think 'ah, he refers playfully to my coal-mining ancestry.' Should you call me honkey and be paleness-challenged, I automatically assume you harbor ill intentions towards me.

That, my friends, is the part of all this that is totally fucked up. The assumption on the part of my melanin enriched countryman that I mean 'FUCK YOU' when I say 'negro.'

While this is not always incorrect, I think erring on the side of caution would be far preferable to living in a world of hyphenated wuss-bags that get their panties in a bind if you don't know what particular word is in fashion at the moment.

Call me what you will. If you mean something by it, preface it with a qualifier like 'goddamn' as in 'goddamn honkey asshole!'

Otherwise, when I am an old man and wish to refer to my negroid room-mate in the nursing home, I will have to tell the robotic nurse 'You know, dear, the Biloxi-raised-carribean-transportee-descended-Ivory-Coast-by-way-of-Uganda-in-roughly-3000 BC-American in the next bed.'

And who dug this hyphenhole? Well, White Americans did, of course, by making people with the wrong skin color or nationality wary of their every word and action. Because hostile intent was the norm for so very long.
Uncle
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I waannntt it ,I wannnt it!!
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

YOU CAAAAAAAAAAN'T HAVE IT!!!!
Uncle
Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

He is!? Is that why thier's meracaias on Magic Bus? HuH? Go figure.
Traineraz
Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Pete Townsend is Mexican?
Uncle
Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Head! Did you ask the kid if he knew pete townsend? snicker, snicker giggle giggle!
Raschied
Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

The funniest thing I ever heard was a guy at my predominately black Jr. High admonishing another guy for using the term "white folk" in mixed company. He felt it would be offensive to me.

Any word, used in the right context, can be deemed offensive to someone or another if you are thin-skinned about it. Get over it, I say.

My father-in-law, who is 74, prefers being called Negro. He'll tell you he's never been to Africa if you call him African-American. On the other hand, my buddy Chris from high school would be offended if I called him Negro. Yet Chris calls his other black friends "niggas" and doesn't think twice about it.

I wrote an essay once on the word "nigger" and its use in modern rap and modern black culture, and got in trouble for it in college. Had I myself been black, I doubt it would've been a problem.
Alphasoixante
Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 5:54 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"But 'gender' properly refers to words (for example, he/she) not people."

once upon a time. language changes, get used to it. there is no propriety in language.

now gender is usually used to mean sexual roles, psychological sexual identity, or culturally determined sexuality. it's meant to serve a concept of sex that is not reducible to anatomy. in that respect, the gender/sex distinction is quite useful. however, if the two are equated, it's not a useful change at all.
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"eth'scuth me meester"
"eth'scuth me meester"
"eth'scuth me meester"
"eth'scuth me meester"
"eth'scuth me meester"

HUH?

"Are you moveeng een, or out?"

Um, I'm movin' in lil amigo.

"Oh!"

Hey kid! What is Mexican?

"I dunno meester."
Uncle
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The only muthafuckin color to be conserned with is Green! Green hogsmack,green backs,green buddies and why is my crotch green? Oh! My Grandma said that when people left the rez. to find work in the Detroit that they were called apples. red on the outside and white inside. What more american that apple pie? I guess Im a apple pie you get at McD's!
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Crack? [PERK]
Louched_Liver
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You niggers are crackin' me up!
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

A: 'hiya dick.'

B: 'don't call me that. my name's richard.'




A direct request by Richard not to be addressed as Dick is one thing.

An assumption by a third party that all Richards are offended by being called Dick is something else again. An attempt by that third party to place the burden of his erroneous assumption upon others is bullying, albeit a candy-ass form of bullying.

But I'm sure the African-Americans will sleep well tonight, knowing you've got their back.
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

From now on all people will
be refered to as
"that" person
"those" people

When refering to oneself and or
ones group

"us" folks.

Problem solved.




That's the way the Indians (excuse me, Native Americans; never mind that they are no more native to America than I am) did it. Most tribes called themselves something along the lines of "the people". Tribes other than their own, they called "the assholes", "the worms", "the ones whose women throw sand in their crotches to keep their ugly men away", etc.
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Arty - that's why I brought up the hyphenated thing."

I know. We cool. A lot of black (i.e., Negro) people go off if you connect them to Africa with a hyphen. See the movie "Barber Shop".

But "gender" properly refers to words (for example, he/she) not people. The correct term for people is "sex", not "gender". A person of male sex is a man; of female sex, a woman. Examples of words of male gender are "he", or French "le"; of female gender "she" or French "la".

See, now we can't say "sex" to denote male or female people; it's politically correct to say "gender", which is wrong. But it's OKAY to say "sex" to denote fucking, as in "having sex". I often wonder, those people who "have" sex, what do they do with it once they "have" it? I mean, when they aren't getting slippery and funky smelling with it, do they put it on the shelf in the garage?

Very good post about the Jamaicans and all by you; very well done.
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Is that that "pink" one
or that "blue" one...



um... that that that...
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Does that make me an us or a them? I suppose that depends on the group in question, eh?

Can't we all just be one, and pretend we have no differences of any sort whatsoever? After all, that's what "equal" means, isn't it?

"Equal" is the name of an artificial sweetener. Tastes good in the mouth, but causes cancer. Coincidence?
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

From now on all people will
be refered to as
"that" person
"those" people

When refering to oneself and or
ones group

"us" folks.

Problem solved.
Alphasoixante
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"the use of the formal and correct name for a race!"

what the hell is a "formal" name for a race?
what the hell is a "correct name"?
what the hell is a "race"?
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Who in their right fucking
mind calls a child "dick"?
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Pata, I'd hope most people would be people of some gender or other! :)

Well, except for the person upon whom my favorite action figure was based . . . G. I. Don'tKnow.
Traineraz
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Do tell, Alpha, what IS the preferred term?

As we've already realized, only people in the United States of America can be called African-American. Many of these are offended and say they are AMERICAN.

(Arty - that's why I brought up the hyphenated thing. I don't call myself a European-Aboriginal American, but I HAVE heard Americans foolishly refer to black Europeans, Haitians, AND Jamaicans as "African-American." You don't know pissed until you've overheard a Jamaican immigrant called "African-American" at the office for the 25th time that week.)

We've already realized that there are both Nordic and Semitic people who live in Africa, who are therefore also African. The Semites have been in Egypt for thousands of years, they're not newcomers.

African, therefore, cannot be used as a term to accurately describe a race, as several races are of African descent.

The formal name for the race is Negro, just like the formal name for the race endemic to the Middle East is Semite (Arabs are people who speak Arabic). Don't like it, even though it's apparently still good enough for the United NEGRO College Fund? Come up with a new one. Argue that race is a political construct. Hide under a rock. But PLEASE quit the WHINING about how "someone might be offended" by the use of the formal and correct name for a race!
Pataphysician
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

A friend of mine calls women "people of gender".
Alphasoixante
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

A: 'hiya dick.'

B: 'don't call me that. my name's richard.'

A: 'it's a perfectly fine name, it's not incorrect, and i don't find it offensive. i don't see what your problem is, dick.'

B: 'i don't care if you like it or not--it's my name, call me what i want to be called.'

A: 'oh no! you're bullying me! i'm being oppressed! dick is taking away my freedom of speech! help! help!'
Zman7
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Green Hour? I'm there!
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't care what you call me as long as you don't call me late for the Green Hour.

It's all about being bullied.

"You're only going to use THESE approved words ..."

What bullies get, is kicked in the nuts.
Admin
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

to paraphrase Billy Connolly, I'm not white, I'm a pale pink scottish person.
Perruche_Verte
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Didn't George Carlin say he preferred to be called 'blue-eyed devil'?
Perruche_Verte
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Language is funny. If you believe that the term 'Negro' is not, or should not be, offensive because it just means 'black', well, so does the word 'nigger', which in its literal sense is just an Anglophone corruption of French 'negre' and/or Spanish 'negro'...

But we know how words tend to accumulate additional meanings over time.

'Caucasian', 'Negroid' and 'Mongoloid', as words used to describe supposed 'races', are based in outdated pseudo-science. I always get a kick out of being called 'Caucasian' because of my supposed descent (as a white-looking person) from tribes in the Caucasus. Well, the Caucasus is a mountainous area inhabited by a bewildering variety of both Indo-European and Asian peoples, e.g. Chechens, Ingush, Abkhasians - most of whom converted to Islam in medieval times.

They aren't as dark as Africans but are typically swarthy and dark-haired, and in Russia, where they are a rather openly despised minority, they are called 'blacks' or 'blackasses'...!
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

either it's uninformative ("black, that is, black" or "black, that is, noir") in which case perplexing that it's added. or it provides additional information (more specific, more accurate, or uncommonly known equivalent term, e.g.), in which case, perplexing what the additional information is.




There was a time when there were as many or more non-American active participants in this forum as American. Not many still post, but I assume they're still out there. I communicate privately with some of them, and I sometimes have to explain terms that you wouldn't think would have to be explained. So I used both the politically correct (for now) term as well as the term that's been in the dictionary for years, to make sure I was understood. Someone has already pointed this out, and I agreed with him; maybe you missed that post.


Quote:

one can't accurately say, e.g., "bob had intercourse with the blow-up doll."




I can't accurately say anything at all about a blow-up doll, because I have no experience with them. I try to talk about only what I know.


Quote:

"Such is life." that would be an appropriate response to "some might be offended." but by "REASONABLY be offended," i meant that some might reasonably wish that others would avoid the word.




And by such is life, I meant that Life itself gives some people offense, not to mention a million petty things. I'm not out to solve that problem for anybody but myself. I do it by getting over what offends me.


Quote:

in that case, "such is life" is incomprehensible--you choose your words, the nature of life doesn't do it for you.




Nor do you do it for me. In case it's still going over your head, that's the point and nothing but the point.
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes. I do believe that.

I don't like being called cracker
anymore... It no longer defines me
as a tasty snack.
Alphasoixante
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"But why is it still Mexican Food?"

i suspect it's because it's supposed to involve dishes common to mexico. (though of course not every "mexican" restaurant serves authentic mexican cuisine, or exclusively.)

"Mexico?"

i suspect it's because that's a country, not a group of people classified according to their origins in latin america (latino) or according to their language (hispanic).
Alphasoixante
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"So it's Latinos or Hispanics until
some non-latino/hispanic person says
it one too many times..."

do you honestly believe that?
Alphasoixante
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Doesn't seem all that perplexing to me."

either it's uninformative ("black, that is, black" or "black, that is, noir") in which case perplexing that it's added. or it provides additional information (more specific, more accurate, or uncommonly known equivalent term, e.g.), in which case, perplexing what the additional information is.

"On the other hand, it may be just another word for 'black'." or it may be both.

"Such is life." that would be an appropriate response to "some might be offended." but by "REASONABLY be offended," i meant that some might reasonably wish that others would avoid the word.
in that case, "such is life" is incomprehensible--you choose your words, the nature of life doesn't do it for you.

"I'll have to take your word for that." no need to take anyone's word; basic knowledge of logic and grammar will do. one can't accurately say, e.g., "bob had intercourse with the blow-up doll." since the action didn't occur between them (i.e. with both parties participating). (there's "-course", but no "inter.")

consider: "joe fucked john." What did john do? Well, he might have fucked him back, he might have been sleeping, he might have watched television, he might be dead, he might have been raped.

but: "joe had sex with john." = "john had sex with joe."

never: "joe intercoursed john."
Head_Prosthesis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"DO NOT call them Mexicans! Unless you want your ass kicked."

"But why is it still Mexican Food?
Mexican Restaurant? Mexico?"

"Because they said so."

So it's Latinos or Hispanics until
some non-latino/hispanic person says
it one too many times...

Fuck it I'll start calling it Latino
Food and Tex-His cusine...
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

i think some might reasonably be offended by the term




Such is life. It was good to see your thinking on intercourse vs. fuck though. Strange that every fuck in which I've participated involved TWO not only willing, but active and free people. And sometimes even more than two. I couldn't say about the blowup doll; I'll have to take your word for that.
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

i'm figurin' there may be a connection to the spanish slave trade.




On the other hand, it may be just another word for "black".
Artemis
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


Quote:

in any case, the use of "i.e." was more perplexing than the use of "negro."




i.e. = Id Est, Latin. Means "that is".

So: "black, that is, Negro ... "

Doesn't seem all that perplexing to me.
Alphasoixante
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"'Negro' is Spanish for 'black', no? But 'black' is okay and 'Negro' isn't? Go figure."

i'm figurin' there may be a connection to the spanish slave trade.
Alphasoixante
Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"I don't think 'intercourse' is any better or more polite than 'fuck', either."

that must be why "let's have intercourse" is so easily interchangeable with "fuck you" as an insult.

there's a meaningful difference between the two terms. "intercourse" necessarily implies reciprocal activity, whereas "fuck" "screw" and the like do not. "fuck" allows for an active subject and passive object (e.g. "he fucked the blow-up doll"), "intercourse" (literally: to run between) does not. that's probably why many prefer the latter term--it more clearly acknowledges the presence of another active free subject.

as for the use of "negro," i think some might reasonably be offended by the term--not for any essentially pejorative meaning it involves, but for reasons of history and association. in any case, the use of "i.e." was more perplexing than the use of "negro."
Artemis
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Perruche, you're correct.

Trainerz, your first paragraph is correct.

I don't buy the second because I don't believe in hyphenated Americans, and the vast majority of the people in question wouldn't know Africa if it bit them on the ass.

Your third paragraph is informative as well. "Negro" is Spanish for "black", no? But "black" is okay and "Negro" isn't? Go figure. I don't think "intercourse" is any better or more polite than "fuck", either.
Artemis
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"that is, Negro"?? what the fuck?

Take politically correct and shove it up your ass, THAT's the fuck.
Perruche_Verte
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

My guess is that Artemis is chronologically advanced enough that "Negro" was actually the POLITE term during his childhood.
Traineraz
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Perhaps Artemis figured that some of our European or South American (or whereever else) friends might not be familiar with the English-language slang term, "black," used to refer to people of the Negro race.

Before you start, please remember that the term "African-American" only applies in the United States. It also could apply to Egyptians and white South Africans who move to the United States, but not to Negroes from the Caribbean.

Ain't it all so very complicated?
Alphasoixante
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"that is, Negro"?? what the fuck?
Artemis
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

In my youth down South, muggles was a word used by black (i.e., Negro) people for marijuana. I had a cat named Muggles (for that reason) thirty years ago. I had to laugh when I read that the author of some children's books thought she "created" the word ...
Bjacques
Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 7:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

That explains something about an episode of Fat Albert I dimly remember. A new kid turns up and makes himself really popular by buying everybody candy and pop with money he gets from his big brother. Fat Albert smells a rat and, sure enough, the brother deals "tea" (or is it "gage?") for a Mr. Big uptown. The cops take Mr. Big down and presumably the brother also gets a stretch in the pen. The brother's name, of course, is Muggles.

This pop-cultural Bicentennial Minute brought to you by Acapulco Gold Filters, a division of RJR-Nabisco.
Traineraz
Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Harry Potter V. Larry Potter and the word Muggle

I've read the case summary and complaint of the Stouffer v Rowling, etc.(Larry Potter v. Harry Potter), and it seems the case hinges on the fact that Ms.Stouffer created the word "muggle".The word holds a different meaning for both of the authors. For Stouffer, a 'muggle' is a non-magical little person like a dwarf (not a child). For Rowling, a 'muggle' is an ordinary human just like you and me regardless of size. Though a little research will reveal that neither of them created the word muggle. If you look up the term muggle in the Oxford English Dictionary you will see the term defined as follows with dates for when the term was first recorded used, who used it and examples of how it was used.

First entry:

(Assorted details)

And perhaps to the embarrassment of both authors the Third entry of the word:

pl. Marijuana; sing. or pl. a marijuana cigarette. Also Comb., as muggle-head, -smoker, one who smokes marijuana; so muggler, a marijuana addict.

http://www.ashleyrichards.com/articles/HarryPotter-V-LarryPotter.shtml

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