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Archive through February 14, 2003

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum » The Monkey Hole » Archive Thru March 2003 » Duct and Cover » Archive through February 14, 2003 « Previous Next »

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Gasspectro (Gasspectro)
Mousquetaire
Username: Gasspectro

Post Number: 24
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

you mean to fix it by taking money from some to give to others?
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 805
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Or to, y'know, fix it.
Gasspectro (Gasspectro)
Mousquetaire
Username: Gasspectro

Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Geez, if this is such a bad place, you have the freedom to leave.
Baz (Baz)
le Duc
Username: Baz

Post Number: 164
Registered: 3-2002
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

But do you have:

A decimated space shuttle fleet?
Nuclear powered submarines with nuclear toys?
Nuclear boats with hundreds of toy airplanes?
Your finger up everyone else's ass?
Helicopters in Jamaica to spray poison on ganja?
The most powerful military in the world?
The stealth bomber?
Spies?
Foreign aid to everyone who plays along?
The war on drugs?


HARDLY the "place to be". Look at all WE have!
Gasspectro (Gasspectro)
Mousquetaire
Username: Gasspectro

Post Number: 22
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

38% tax. wow, that's almost half your income. I would also be willing to bet that there are hidden VAT taxes on all your purchases that you don't see. So in reality, you are probably paying about 50-60% taxes. Three cheers for socialism.
Althea (Rosietwobears)
Mousquetaire
Username: Rosietwobears

Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

aparently holland is the place to be

Absinthe maketh the heart grow fonder
Kallisti (Admin)
Madame Guillotine
Username: Admin

Post Number: 818
Registered: 1-1998


Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

hrm. wow. I pay about 35% and I get none of that.



k a l l i s t i

http://www.feeverte.net
angry psycho (Angryp)
Mousquetaire
Username: Angryp

Post Number: 46
Registered: 3-2002
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 7:51 am:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

here in the netherlands we pay 38% income tax, but we dont pay special hidden taxes like sales tax. when something is priced 1 euro on the shelf it costs 1 euro at the counter.

i personally think we get alot of benefits from our 38%.
- free medicine
- free hospitalisation
- free mental health programmes
- alternative medicine is also fully covered (chinese herbology, accupuncture etc)
- cheap and reliable public transportation
- after having a baby the insurance system provides you with an in home nurse/care giver to help with the new baby and household tasks for 8 days
- child benefit money that in no way reflects on your financial status, even our queen collected after she had her kids




Wow! I pay 30% and I get ... er ... none of that.

The medical stuff in particular would be nice to have. I have no insurance, so my only recourse for any medical care is to go to the emergency room (and wait for about six hours for the docs to see me). Insurance that has any kind of decent coverage will run me at least $400/month.
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 467
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 7:25 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well put, Althea. Case closed.
Althea (Rosietwobears)
Mousquetaire
Username: Rosietwobears

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2002


Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

here in the netherlands we pay 38% income tax, but we dont pay special hidden taxes like sales tax. when something is priced 1 euro on the shelf it costs 1 euro at the counter.

i personally think we get alot of benefits from our 38%.
- free medicine
- free hospitalisation
- free mental health programmes
- alternative medicine is also fully covered (chinese herbology, accupuncture etc)
- cheap and reliable public transportation
- after having a baby the insurance system provides you with an in home nurse/care giver to help with the new baby and household tasks for 8 days
- child benefit money that in no way reflects on your financial status, even our queen collected after she had her kids
there are tons of other benefits as well i just cant think of them at the moment. and keep in mind that when i say free, as in free mental health for example, that stuff is across the board. there is no crappy clinic for the poor and good program for the rich. everyone gets the same.

id rather pay a little more off the top and be done with it. people complain that we euopeans pay so much more taxes yadda yadda but when you figure in all the cost cuts we get in our benefits, we are getting the better deal.
Absinthe maketh the heart grow fonder
Deadest Elephant (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 570
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Well, until the PEOPLE decided that the government should take up the job"

Yeah, right. The PEOPLE decided that. Okay.

"And, just to be clear, "welfare" as we know it (Aid to Parents of Dependent Children) ceased to exist under Clinton."

That's bullshit. Welfare is built into the tax code. People take money out who put none in. People who pay subsidize people who don't. The social security program is just another welfare program; people who will get nothing out are paying in. The prescription drug nonsense that keeps coming up is the most massive welfare program this country has ever contemplated.

"Flat taxes include the elimination of all tax deductions."

Good riddance.

"Now, of course, with the "Don't Tax, but Spend Anyway" Republicans in charge, that'd probably end up more like 30%."

For a lot of people, it's already 30%. 20% would be tax RELIEF. But to be sure, spending is more than half the problem and that needs to come down as well. The Republicans are no better than the Democrats in that respect.
Kallisti (Admin)
Madame Guillotine
Username: Admin

Post Number: 817
Registered: 1-1998


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

heh, I almost went there.

with the highest being "the committee of public safety"

Me, I could be Madame Guillotine ...

k a l l i s t i

http://www.feeverte.net
Carl Guderian (Bjacques)
le Duc
Username: Bjacques

Post Number: 194
Registered: 4-2001
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey, could we change the post rankings to something like...
sans-culotte
tricoteuse(-eur)
bourreau
Jacobin
?
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 802
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

And I'll tear the head off anyone who crosses me. *rawr*



Oooh, mantis-style....
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 801
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

That's not a fantasy, that's the fact, (Jack) and that's the way I want to keep it.



I think there is precious little danger of US taxes reaching European levels. We're more in danger of our taxes being insufficient to pay for everything we expect the government to do.

But enough of that. Let's get back to Kallisti's hormones...
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 800
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

It's not a question of should they be fed, but who should be feeding them.



Well, until the PEOPLE decided that the government should take up the job, it wasn't getting done very well. When private charities eliminate need in this country, I'll be happy to do away with government programs. I just have trouble believing that will happen any more now than it did in the 1880's...

And, just to be clear, "welfare" as we know it (Aid to Parents of Dependent Children) ceased to exist under Clinton. Now even single mothers who can't afford childcare are expected to work for their money. The only people still living almost entirely on gevernment handouts, oddly enough, are our corporations...
Absinthe Queen of Reviews (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 1628
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey? Are you people DEAF???

SHE SAID *HORMONAL* too!!!


What war?
Darrin, Stalker of Head (Traineraz)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Traineraz

Post Number: 855
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Flat taxes include the elimination of all tax deductions. That means no mortgage interest deduction, something which helps many lower-income people afford houses. People buying houses instead of renting stabilizes neighborhoods and improves property values. Who wants that?

Estimates during the last big Forbes-Flat-Tax debate showed a need to raise that flat rate to something like 20% across the board, rather than the 10% they kept claiming was feasible. That was during balanced-budget years. Now, of course, with the "Don't Tax, but Spend Anyway" Republicans in charge, that'd probably end up more like 30%.

Sounds good to me, let's do it. Kiss your IRA/401(k) goodbye. Forget about charitable contributions, since there will be no tax deduction. Then look at the housing boom, the only thing currently supporting our economy. Yank rug out from under housing boom. See housing boom end. See recession become depression.

Sounds like a plan.
Deadest Elephant (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 568
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Perhaps it would be worth looking at what percent of income is ACTUALLY PAID, rather than looking at tax tables and crying, "UNFAIR!""

FLAT TAX!!! End of problem.

"If you stop feeding the poor people, they revolt and kill the rich people."

It's not a question of should they be fed, but who should be feeding them.

"I may wish that someday welfare will be what it was intended to be . . . a safety net for the unexpectedly unemployed"

Agreed.
Darrin, Stalker of Head (Traineraz)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Traineraz

Post Number: 852
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Let's all remember that tax brackets don't determine how much tax one pays. When one has money, the quality of one's accountant determines how much tax (if any) one pays. Perhaps it would be worth looking at what percent of income is ACTUALLY PAID, rather than looking at tax tables and crying, "UNFAIR!"

Granted, the concept of oblesse noblige does not exist in the US (with rare exception). Hence many cries of "UNFAIR!" After all, why should people who earn their money pay for welfare? That's just some socialist crap, right? Oh, wait. If you stop feeding the poor people, they revolt and kill the rich people.

I may wish that someday welfare will be what it was intended to be . . . a safety net for the unexpectedly unemployed. However, the pragmatist in me realizes that welfare is necessary to maintain social order. I'd rather put up a few bucks (much less than my European counterparts put up), and be moderately less unsafe in my slowly-gentrifying ghetto neighborhood, than save cash on taxes only to have my windows broken in and my old computer stolen while I try to type a posting on the Absinthe Forum.
Deadest Elephant (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 564
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Americans who coplain about taxes are living in a fantasy. Relative to the rest of the civilized world, we barely pay tax at all."

That's not a fantasy, that's the fact, (Jack) and that's the way I want to keep it.
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 797
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 1:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yeah, darn those poor people! They get all the breaks.

No...wait...

Americans who coplain about taxes are living in a fantasy. Relative to the rest of the civilized world, we barely pay tax at all. Right now the distribution of wealth in the US is more lopsided than it has been since before the depression. The idea that anybody but the rich benefit from reducing taxes on the rich is demonstrably false.
Baz (Baz)
le Duc
Username: Baz

Post Number: 163
Registered: 3-2002
Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

*Horny?*
Absinthe Queen of Reviews (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 1624
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Haha! They'll be beatin' down your
web door now.
What war?
Kallisti (Admin)
Madame Guillotine
Username: Admin

Post Number: 813
Registered: 1-1998


Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

sorry, I'm horny and hormonal.

heehehee.

And I'll tear the head off anyone who crosses me. *rawr*

k a l l i s t i

http://www.feeverte.net

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