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Archive through April 14, 2003

Sepulchritude Forum » The Absinthe Forum » The Monkey Hole » The future if Iraq wins the war. » Archive through April 14, 2003 « Previous Next »

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Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 908
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I've said all along it would have been cheaper just to bribe every Iraqi with 5 year's salary...
Pervert Euchre (Perruche_verte)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Perruche_verte

Post Number: 444
Registered: 12-2000


Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Now they're saying that Iraq's ~$300 billion debt should be forgiven.

No one's really complaining, but a few African and Asian countries have volunteered to be bombed next.

"Drink accomplished what God did not." --Marguerite Duras
Carl Guderian (Bjacques)
le Duc
Username: Bjacques

Post Number: 241
Registered: 4-2001
Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

If the reports by Salam Pax (remember him?) of pre-war gun-buying sprees can be believed, I hope the locals hang on to those AK-47s. They'll need them against the carpetbaggers; in the words of G. Gordon Liddy, they should go for the head shot (aim for 3-piece suits, not camouflage uniforms).
I think Charlton Heston would approve.

Gen. Jay Garner may want to be this century's Gen. MacArthur, but between his connections and those of the contract winners, he's likely to come off as Gen. Butler (New Orleans, 1862-67). He won't be a General Marshall, that's for sure. This GOP administration and Congress won't even spend money for bombed-out areas at home.
Crosby (Crosby)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Crosby

Post Number: 377
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Is that Eminem singing?
C'est ma santé
Lordhobgoblin (Lordhobgoblin)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Lordhobgoblin

Post Number: 738
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2003 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Saddam from Iraq.

http://liquidgeneration.com/poptoons/saddamfromiraq.asp
Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 712
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2003 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"I can guaran-god-damn-tee you that I know more about Islam than anybody in the White House"

You know more about everything than anybody else, ESPECIALLY me.

I've got to go now, I have only so long to live and many other confessions to make.
Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Ayatollah of Rock and er... Rollah! (Head_prosthesis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Head_prosthesis

Post Number: 3318
Registered: 1-2001


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sorry Jack, but I had to...
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 906
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

Maybe nothing, but what goes around, comes around.




Yeah, it's funny how that works. Like when you sell chemicals and weapons to an oppressive and violent dictator only because he's at war with a country you don't like...

I don't know if you've done much reading on the Monroe Doctrine, but we got ourselves embroiled in almost every election and coup in Latin America for about 40 years going. And the funny thing was, we'd install a new "friendly" regime, only to have that regime eaither turn against our interests, or become so oppressive that the people overthrew it, and we'd just have to send the marines in AGAIN, every few years, to put in a new one.

America's history of military interventionaism has been about as effective as giving liver transplants to an alcoholic...
Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 905
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

Is it lost upon you that most of the combatants our forces are killing and capturing in the last few days are not Iraqis at all, but Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians, and other terrorist scum?



Is it lost on you that the only reason these people came to Iraq was because we are acting exactly like the imperialists they believe we are? Or that totally opposed forces will unite when given a common enemy? We fought to save Russians in WWII! That doesn't mean the US was responsible for communism.

Did you READ the statment that ibn-Ladin made calling for Arabs to defend Iraq? He said it was acceptable to defend an apostate socialist like Saddam ONLY because they shared the same enemy. He compared it to the Muslims' allying with the Persians against the Byzantines. I don't know if you understant the context there, but that is pretty much EXACTLY like saying "it's only OK to join forces with Stalin if you're both fighting Hitler."

We can talk about smart and dumb all you want, but I can guaran-god-damn-tee you that I know more about Islam than anybody in the White House, and people who know more than me feel the same way.

Jack Collins (_blackjack_)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: _blackjack_

Post Number: 904
Registered: 11-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


quote:

I thought it meant what it said, which was, I thought, that a good end is not a good thing if the means of achieving it were not good.



Um, for my money, a single nation mounting an unprovoked invasion of a much poorer, much weaker country will always qualify as "not good", no matter what the end result.


quote:

We excised a cancer they would never have been able to operate upon themselves, now maybe they can prosper and set an example for others in the region.




We exised this cancer only because it was in our way, and it has yet to be seen if we're even going to sew the wound shut.

If the result of this war is a free and democratic Iraq, I'll be the first to celebrate that freedom. But the pretend that was the AIM of this war is patently absurd. If our next military adventure is to bring peace and real democracy to Colombia or to the Congo, then I'll buy that line.
Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 533
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Alpha, this uncanny example of objective chance is unretouched:
Andre Breton: Young Cherry Trees Secured Against Hares
Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 710
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

"Last I heard NATO was a mutual defense pact."

Exactly. If the Turks expect us to defend them against the Kurds, they should have allowed us access to their territory for launching a northern front. They can't have it both ways.
Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Pervert Euchre (Perruche_verte)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Perruche_verte

Post Number: 441
Registered: 12-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The Kurds may or may not get control of Kirkuk out of it. They consider it their city. Unfortunately the Iraqi Turkoman people also consider it theirs... does this sound familiar?

'...they have reneged on their NATO obligation'

Last I heard NATO was a mutual defense pact. Whereas the closest thing to proof of Saddam Hussein's 'offensive intentions' so far has been:

-Somebody belonging to Al-Qaeda was in his country once
-He apparently sponsored the "al-Qaeda-like" Ansar group against the Kurds

Have I missed something here?

The Montagnards were used against the Viet Cong and got nothing. The Hmong were used against the Pathet Lao and got nothing except Thai refugee camps and (eventually, for some) exile in the US. The Kurds better grab what they can get right now. It isn't the first time for them, either.
"Drink accomplished what God did not." --Marguerite Duras
Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 705
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

" ... not piss off the Turks (although given their stance in the war, why should the coalition care what they think?)"

Agreed, but they are a member of NATO and the Kurds are not, so the Kurds will probably get fucked. It's happened before. The Montagnards (sp?) were used against the Viet Cong, but got nothing out of it that I can see. I'm not at all comfortable with the way the Kurds are being used (and I do mean USED) so far. They put their lives on the line, only to get shuffled aside because the Turks are afraid of them? Fuck the Turks, I say. They have reneged on their NATO obligation and to hell with them.

I think Oxy's predictions were substantially correct, even obvious.

"Wouldn't ya think that if those WMDs existed, they'd have been put to use during the invasion?"

No, I would not. The command and control structure was essentially destroyed early in the war and after that it was, on their side, everybody for himself. Essentially, they got their asses whipped so quick there were some triggers they couldn't pull even if they wanted to. It doesn't mean they didn't MEAN to do it if they had the chance. Time will tell.
I'm not happy with the way the idiots are allowing the mobs to burn buildings that could contain valuable intelligence, for sure ...

"Now, what will prevent the oppressed Shi'ite majority from oppressing the once-oppressive Sunni majority?"

Maybe nothing, but what goes around, comes around.

Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Darrin, Stalker of Head (Traineraz)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Traineraz

Post Number: 890
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wouldn't ya think that if those WMDs existed, they'd have been put to use during the invasion? Hmm.

Now, what will prevent the oppressed Shi'ite majority from oppressing the once-oppressive Sunni majority?
He who would sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither.
Lordhobgoblin (Lordhobgoblin)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Lordhobgoblin

Post Number: 736
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Artemis,

As for Oxygenee's prediction of a 2 week war being correct. Unless I am mistaken the first shots fired in this war were on 17th March (or was it 18th) and although the war is coming to a close it is not yet over. The war is likely to have lasted double the length of time he predicted and not within a reasonable margin of error for war predicted to last 2 weeks.

As for finding weapons of mass destruction, time will tell on this one. Although I would have thought that since WMDs was the reason given to justify starting this war coalition forces would be looking bloody hard to find them.

As for the cheering crowds well we did se these on TV. Certainly there was no doubting the scale of the joyous Kurdish crowds in Kirkut but considering the pictures showing crowds cheering the coalition forces entering Baghdad were from the Shi-ite part of Baghdad the streets were not exactly packed, but those that cheered were indeed joyous.

Anyway I will accept that my prediction on the scale of civilian casualties was very wrong. And I do admit that the coalition forces did fight a very cleverly handled and impressive campaign. The more difficult job now comes in handling the post-war situation to end up with a government that is accepted by the Iraqi people, is friendly towards the West, is not pro-Iranian and does not piss off the Turks (although given their stance in the war, why should the coalition care what they think?) and to avoid having coalition forces stationed in Iraq (suffering a Northern Ireland style terrorist war) for many years.
Alphasoixante (Alphasoixante)
le Duc
Username: Alphasoixante

Post Number: 111
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

pata:
when in paris you must visit the new musee breton. its enormous collection is housed in the recently returned statue of liberty, which has been festively re-plated from torch to toe with a shimmering golden layer of freedom toast.

artemis:

"Your comparison of human beings to coconuts is bizarre."

if and only if freedom=anarchy, then human freedom is no different from that of a freely falling coconut.

but i don't think that's the case. as you say, the human has some control, which is precisely why i think that human freedom is not "anarchy." the difference is self-control as opposed to control by another, self-rule rather than the absence of rule.

"Peace."
likewise.

Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 704
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I think the Franklin Mint, or whoever it is that puts out those cheapass "collectibles" should put out a set of plates with the Iraqis we've learned to know and love. Imagine that info minister denying that Americans are in his country, with some Marines holding up two fingers over his head in the background.

Also, if Saddam is captured, he should be sentenced to Disneyland. After he's made to ride all the rides, he could be an exhibit. Little children being allowed to tug the evil man's mustache, kick him in the nuts, sneeze on him, etc.
Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 532
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm pissed off at the French government. They could have taken all that money they saved from not joining the war on Iraq and used it to buy the Andre Breton collection.
Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 703
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Alpha, actually, your explanation of the 15-year old boy quip was well done, and exactly what I thought you meant.

A teenage boy is under the illusion he's free because he spits on the ground every minute, says "fuck" a lot, and throws his empty coke can out the car window onto someone's lawn.

Those people in Iraq are more free than they have ever been during this limited window of anarchy, or will ever be again, because DO AS THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW is a reality for them. If that's not freedom, I don't know what is.

Your comparison of human beings to coconuts is bizarre. A human in a tree is as subject to gravity as a coconut, but he has at least some control over when he falls, and can remember his mama on the way down.

You actually do a good job of explaining what you mean about things when you take the trouble, but you're still usually full of shit.

Peace.

Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Quidam (Artemis)
Absinthe Mafia
Username: Artemis

Post Number: 702
Registered: 10-2000


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

" ... there's no meaningful difference between the freedom of a human being and the freedom of, say, a falling coconut."

In your case, I have no doubt about it.

Coconut Haiku

Falling coconut
Thunk!
Hollow ringing sound
Quelle vie ont eue nos grands-parents
Entre l'absinthe et les grands-messes... ?

Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 531
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Oui! Oui! You know me well! I was aware of this. I've been poring over this website for weeks now:

http://breton.calmelscohen.com/
Alphasoixante (Alphasoixante)
le Duc
Username: Alphasoixante

Post Number: 110
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

a present for you, pata:

http://www.expatica.com/francemain.asp?pad=278,313,&item_id=30304
Alphasoixante (Alphasoixante)
le Duc
Username: Alphasoixante

Post Number: 109
Registered: 9-2001


Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

"So what can you show me, guys?"

I've got a photocopier, some scissors, and scotch tape--what would you like me to show you?

Pataphysician (Pataphysician)
Elitist Bastard
Username: Pataphysician

Post Number: 530
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

OK, I've called you all here today, the heads of the CIA, the FBI, NSA, because there's a significant percentage of Americans who say that they haven't seen enough proof to warrant a war against Iraq. So what can you show me, guys?

Well, I've got a dossier here that shows Saddam's ties to the attacks of 9/11. This would convince any sceptics that Saddam's regime is also culpable for 9/11.

Hmm. I dunno. Maybe we should keep that under wraps. For security, ya know. What else have you got?

I've got this document that shows that Iraq purchased some aluminum tubes.

Bingo! Now we're talking!

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