Buddah's arse

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: Topics Archived thru March 2001:Buddah's arse
By Bjacques on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 - 03:22 am: Edit

Brilliant! Thanks, Morrigan! I love cruising junk shops for weird objects (who doesn't?), so sites like this are a godsend. The other day I found a paregoric apothecary bottle (empty, alas) for $10. The same shop has another bottle of chloroform that's about 20% full. I think I'll grab it, but dump the chloroform or sell it to white slavers...

By Melinelly on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 10:25 am: Edit

oh man, that's a great site. bookmarking it when i get home too.

my mother-in-law sent me a link to another site that chronicles weird stuff for auction. i'll post the link when i get home. it was something like disturbingauctions.com

By Morriganlefey on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 10:22 am: Edit

(OoooOo - I just noticed that Bjacques used one of my favorite words -"purloined" in his last post!! That's 2 "purloineds" in this forum in one week!! *purrrrrr*)

Before I get verbose,
-M

By Morriganlefey on Tuesday, March 27, 2001 - 10:20 am: Edit

Thanks Midas - ain't it a hoot???! Do let Dru and Shauna (the gals who run it) know you love it. And they're always thankful for e-mailed wacky auction links that others may come across.

- M

By Midas on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Morrigan, that site is fantastic. it just made it's way onto my exclusive list of bookmarks.
-Robert

By Morriganlefey on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 06:08 pm: Edit

Bjacques - that Ebay "gem" came to me by way of http://www.whowouldbuythat.com/ - a lovely lil' blog site run by 2 fellow Bay Area web-gals.

Peruse to your warped little heart's content.

- Morrigan

By Bjacques on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Hey, how do you find these auction items anyway? I always hear about the juicy ones like kidneys and purloined Microsoft VeriSign certificates after they've been struck from the site.

And speaking of genitalia, I happened onto a deliriously funny play within "The Decadent Gardener," by Medlar Lucan and Durian Grey (Daedalus Books). "The Kingdom of Sodom," supposedly published in 1689 and banned in 1690, features a king named Bolloximian and his queen Cuntigratia. It's the play that Lucan and Grey were rehearsing when they were run out of town, thus aborting their unspeakably elaborate plans for the garden.

By the way, the Daedalus catalog appears to have been remaindered. I found the Decadent Gardener, Decadent Traveler, Decadent Cookbook and more at Half Price Books (in Houston) for $3. A steal! Maybe your local equivalent has it.

By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 05:04 pm: Edit

There's a woman at Adult Friend Finder that goes by the handle Cuntwife... It's true, it's true...

By Marc on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 01:46 pm: Edit

morriganlefey,

you're right. That is vile.

By Morriganlefey on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Simpletons like THIS are why most women continue to loathe the word -

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1221562488

Pity - it got NO BIDS. (Don't ask me how I found this link - it kind of "found me".)

- M

By Artemis on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 10:52 am: Edit

The movie is "Varsity Blues", by the way.

My own favorite term for the viril appendage:
Trouser Snake

I personally think that "cunt" is a sexy, attractive word for the female counterpart, and the word does have an ancient and honorable lineage. But I've only heard one woman in my whole life use that word to describe her personal parts, and I very much doubt she made a habit of it - she seemingly did it for shock value. On the other hand, I've heard numerous women say they loath the word. I suspect they have heard it too many times to describe the female person as a whole.

"Pussy" is such a perfect word for a perfect part that I don't see how it could be improved upon. I don't think an equivalent *exists* for men, though I suppose "Cock" comes close enough.

By Artemis on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 10:36 am: Edit

I thought it was a decent movie, but that was probably the best part. That and the scenes with the pig in the them.

By Zack on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 09:58 am: Edit

"Mr. Mordis
Flesh Rocket
Jack's Magic Bean Stalk
Tall Tommy
Mushroom on a Stick
Mr. Mushroom Head
Purple Headed Yogurt Slinger
Pedro "

Perhaps the best part of the movie

By Wormwood on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 09:56 am: Edit

I herd a comedian say this one time:

"Why when some asshole cuts you off in traffic why do you stick your middle finger out the window and wish on him the most beautiful experiance two human beings can have. Why don't we scream something like "Audit You!"

By Artemis on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 06:44 am: Edit

"Also of note, was something about 'vertical bacon.' "

Bacon???????

More descriptive, non-ugly, in fact, superior in every sense:

Vertical Smile

By Artemis on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 06:36 am: Edit

"Why is it that there are so many wonderfully descriptive words for the female genitalia (my personal favorite being "snatch" ... "

My least favorite. Far and away the ugliest.

" ... and so few descriptive words for the male genitalia ... "

I can think of about a hundred, but for many of them, you'd probably have to be a man to think the words are actually "descriptive". Men apparently have a far better sense of humor about these things than women.

"(I have no favorites because they are all so boring)."

Mr. Mordis
Flesh Rocket
Jack's Magic Bean Stalk
Tall Tommy
Mushroom on a Stick
Mr. Mushroom Head
Purple Headed Yogurt Slinger
Pedro

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 02:18 am: Edit

Magnusra,

I must admit to having no knowledge whatsoever about Taoism. I am a materialist atheist, with a healthy contempt for philosophy and religion. My position is based on the fact that the things which we describe as opposites are simply positions along a continuum. We break very basic mathematical rules by treating positions on a continuum as discrete points (11-year-olds learn this rule at school). It also follows that ultimate extreme positions cannot exist.

Also regarding the forces that hold the Universe together, there are 4 known forces: Gravitional Force; Electromagnetic Force; Small Force; and Large Force. The Universe is not held together by dualistic pairs of forces, comforting though this notion may be.

The idea of dualism can be comforting, and can seem to give a reason for our existence, but it is not supported by facts about the world around us.

Hobgoblin

By Petermarc on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 02:05 am: Edit

note: 'poontang' most likely came from the french word 'putain' which, when pronounced with an accent from marseille sounds like 'poo-tanG'...it translates as 'whore'...

By Admin on Monday, March 26, 2001 - 01:33 am: Edit

Yay! Welcome Xandra! Another redhead. Wooo! That makes me, You & Morrigan. That is three. Evil.

Heh. You all played so nicely that I went out and had a beer instead. But goddammnit I've got see-you-in-tee on the brain now. All the many and various mysteries surrounding taboo'd words and behaviour. bla bla bla

Whatever, I think you have to take everything in context. Since Marc is a friend, I naturally wouldn't be offended by his zealous and reverential treatment of it. All I really thought was that "wow, he really likes it!" But we can't change the fact that it has come down to us as an abusive term. Makes it hard to appreciate the tenderer side (of "cunt") when not being dished up by naked and oiled youths. I never knew it was anything BUT a term of abuse until my early to mid 20's, and then it was only by hearsay and study of ancient texts (all those already afore mentioned) that did me some learnin that it is an ancient and wonderful word. But you still can't change the fact that it is IS a term of great disrespect for many. And as the ultimate arbiter of culture websters lists it as: coitus or woman's pudenda, usually disparaging or obscene. And just because a word has a noble and old pedigree does not make it any more agreeable to the aggreived parties.

Have we discussed this before, why most insults are sexually referential in nature ... what is THAT all about.

Living the happy go lucky bohemian lifestyle encourages questioning the nature ot taboos (or just being oblivious to them) and rather choosing our own path based on experience and self education. At least, that's what I do with my free time.

Now, to go back to the time when cunt was king, as it were, I prefer to revitalize the terms that didn't survive to become the abuse of the future. These have no bad connotations, even tho they are practically the same word. In honour of this thread, I'd like Marc to know, I've renamed a drive on my computer "quim." (see also my OTHER website for literary examples)

And Xandria, you're probably right about that, I think its because girts are cute ... and speaking which (uh, kinda), guys however win hands down with the masturbatory euphemisms. The other half of Sepulchritude now living in New Orleans just had a Masturbatory Euphemism party (come dressed as yer favorite), which was preceded by about 2 weeks of trying to come up with all of them. Out of over a hundred, only ten or so were for chicks. And also for Marc, I believe "parting the meat curtain" made the cut. Also of note, was something about "vertical bacon."

See, I get this bad feeling, that as soon as I mention "vertical bacon" you all will lose respect for me. Besides, its hard being nearly the only girl when ya'll start going off about guns & p*ssy. I see we're taking a break from the huge debates for awhile eh.

Ah, the answer to BOTH those questions Xandria just occured to me: it must a guy thing. they're chasin' the one and doin' the other.

More next week on the philosophical & spiritual nature of poontang.

(I need to get out more)

By Chrysippvs on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 11:17 pm: Edit

Quite honesty, of all the mystical systems I have studied (and there have been tons) one stands out in my mind as the most unilaterally comprehensive.

Alchemy, If anyone here is every interested and wants to stop chanting towards finding your inner peace, you may want to check it out. It is incredibly hard to find good texts outside of Latin but when you do they really come alive.

I just got finished with a paper discussing how the West has rejected a mystical tradition that is essentially foundational to modern thought, and of course taking a look at the cultural schizophrenia that follows.

Some great books to check out on Alchemy.

Anything by Edward Kelly (unkie Al's former self, wonder if unkie al knew Kelly had his ears cut off for forgery...kinda telling don't you think?)

Theatrium Chemicum Britanicum (despite the title it is in English not Latin)

The Golden Tractate of Hermes Trismegistus (and also the Emerald Tablet of ole Hermes)

Turba Philosophorum (I only have a Latin copy but I am sure it in translation)

Great stuff for all you aspiring mystics, Marc you seem to be a rimbaud fan. Did you ever notice how rimbaud constantly weaves Alchemy into Une Saison. Like the "Alchemy of the Word" it is apparent. Even the colors he uses are alchemic in nature...would be a great hermeneutic for reading him in...

By Xandria on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Here's another girl joining the fray. There are so many undercurrents and discussions going on in this one thread, I will only comment on one more thing that Springs to mind as I have read all of this.

Why is it that there are so many wonderfully descriptive words for the female genitalia (my personal favorite being "snatch" as it is so perfectly aggressive), and so few descriptive words for the male genitalia (I have no favorites because they are all so boring).

Just another thought to throw in the mix...

Xandria
(a thirtysomething bisexual Goth girl who suffers severely from objectifying girls)
http://www.xancam.com

By Anatomist1 on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 08:35 pm: Edit

The only macrobiotic people I've known had frizzy hair, limp-noodle muscle tone, and were generally phthisic. I would say it's more about eating in accord with the general trickle or ooze of things... a far cry from anything I would call a flow. Human beings can survive without decent quantities of complete protien, but they can't thrive. Show me an NBA player who doesn't eat animal protiens. If you want to be exhuberantly healthy, you can't live on watercress and wheatgrass. You've got to eat animal products or be hyper-vigilant about your nut and legume intake. You'd actually be better off eating an all-meat diet, as long as you could stand to eat the entire contents of the animal's digestive tract. Several plains indian tribes lived this way, and their warriors were at least three times the men our blue-coats were...

I too am way too rambunctious for meditation. I find my meditation in action. Give me my torch, a PJ Harvey CD, and 8 hours without interruption, and I'll show you focus.

K.

By Marc on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 03:32 pm: Edit

balancing complimentary opposites is certainly discussed in taoism and particularly in macrobiotics, which is eating in accord with the natural flow of things.

By Magnusra on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 03:12 pm: Edit

Finally the discussion I've been waiting for! I can't express my happiness with words, but I'm can add my opion:) So here's my two cents.
I'm am in agreement with Justin and lord Hobgoblin, we are all on similar paths of thought. I'm sure one or both of you has a good understanding of Taoism, and I speak of pure philosophical taoism not reliogous Taoism. So to get back to my point, it is utterly futile to refer to any thing as dualities. In saying that I mean, it is true that there can be two different aspects of something (e.g. positive, negative; good, evil) but none the less they are the same thing in essence. It's just this silly notion that most humans have to distinguish between the two by means of opposites. There can be no true opposites, there is no human that is completely evil, and as like there is none that is completely good. This is impossible. The two can never exist without the other, and can never be completely seperated. Therefore, the use of dualities only over complicates and distorts the true reality. A duality in itself is a contradiction. They are ideas used to distiguish between things to help us get a better understanding of whatever it is we may be looking at. But in reality they only complicate your conception of it, thereby bringing you further from the reality of the situation. I'm really sorry if this isn't very coherent. I had a rough night last night, up until 4am hanging out with two friends, and the lovely green fairy. We were just conversation and jamming with our guitars. Great fun! Thats enough for me now. I'll sure I'll elaborate when I wake up:)

By Marc on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 02:55 pm: Edit

melinelly,

thankyou.

The bodhisattva path requires discipline that I simply do not possess. I have tried sitting, meditating, focusing on breathing...but it is very hard to do nothing. My mind is a restless monkey. All the more reason to do nothing.

By Melinelly on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 12:43 pm: Edit

aye, marc. the practice of nichiren shoshu does include chanting namu-myoho-renge-kyo... and unfortunately the organization that most nichiren shoshu buddhists belong(ed) to used that whole "if you chant, it will happen" line to promote the practice, but furthermore to grab new members. and unfortunate commercialization of a rather effective religion.

after some time away from the practice and after furthering my studies into "spirituality" as a whole, i realized what it is about nichiren shoshu that made it so effective. chanting and the other rituals works as a sort of self-hypnosis if you will. through ritual, you are able to focus through chanting on your desires and goals in life and thus put yourself into a more focused mindset by which your goals are accomplished more effectively. since you're not chanting "i want a new car i want a new car i want a new car," it acts a a sort of universal foci... translated, it means roughly "i dedicate myself to the mystic truth of the lotus sutra"

the act of chanting becomes likened to breathing, you don't really think about it once you get your rhythm... your physical and oral motor skills are concentrated on kneeling and chanting, leaving your mind focused on your goals... those goals could be anything: a new job, a mate, happiness, health, and yes, a cadillac even. it's not as simple as "nam-hyoho-renge-kyo" and poof there's a shiny convertible in your driveway, it simply allows you to stay on the path and work more effectively to whatever ends you desire. of course, more than a practice, it is a religion, and consists not only of practice, but of studying various writings of buddhists as well as the lotus sutra with the ultimate goal being enlightenment and "world peace" through individual happiness (a take on the boddhisatva) etc.

anyhoo, that's the condensed version of "McBuddhism" heh

By Chrysippvs on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 10:33 am: Edit

I agree sir goblin.

Duality, like I said earlier, has allowed for this watered-down thought process that simply allows the mind to think of thing and actions in a polar sense. I also think it is equally wrong to say things work in a much to much complex manner, rather I am somewhat with Hume and saying there is simply a train of causes and no objective effects, but here is where the Stoics and Fichte come into play. The effects of an event are those nice constructs that serve as social realities for everyday life. Hence you don't stab little noisey children because it is "wrong".

I am doing a very indept paper on exploring Rimbaud's morality and the very monisitc principles therein. I would be willing to argue that Rimbaud, more or less, was a bohemian stoic. Not the romantic figure he is portrayed as.

But the Zen guys have one idea I love. They say there isn't monality or duality, there is only the absense of duality.

Cute idea.

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 03:09 am: Edit

The world was formed and exists due to complex relationships between many different physical forces. These forces are not necessarily 'opposites', are not always complimentary, and don't exist as dualistic pairs.

Hobgoblin

By Marc on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 01:25 am: Edit

it is the interplay between complimentary opposites that creates the world.

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 12:07 am: Edit

Dualism falsely reduces things to extremes and discrete points. The reality is that all things are simply positions along a series of continua, not discrete values and it follows that ultimate extreme positions do not exist. Summer blends into Autumn, then Winter, then Spring, then Summer again, a natural gradual cycle without discrete values.

It is only when we artificially take two differing points of a continuum, break the rules by incorrectly treating them as discrete values and artificially comparing them that we see 'evidence' for dualism; and the two points along the continuum that we choose to compare are always carefully selected in order to give us the desired 'evidence'.

Hobgoblin

By Marc on Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 12:06 am: Edit

melinelly,

isn't nichiren shoshu buddhism the one that uses the chant "namye ho ringe kyo" (excuse the spelling). If you chant for a Cadillac, you get one. I always thought of that school of buddhism
as McBuddhism, fast food buddhism.

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 11:53 pm: Edit

Great point, Marc, regarding the "I love the cervical mucus in your vagina: it is at optimum viscosity!" train of thought. It would never fly--and you'd sound like a sick fuck for trying.

By Melinelly on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 11:29 pm: Edit

ok found my point.

it doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you believe in it.

By Melinelly on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 11:28 pm: Edit

ariadnae, welcome to the fray =)

the problem with buddhism if you're going with sutras is that each subsequent sutra was "the" sutra until buddha concocted the next one at which point he often would declare previous sutras null and void. not to mention that the chance that any sutra existing today was word for word the buddha's teaching (same problem with the bible) is pretty small considering that you're dealing with centuries of oral passage before any sutra was transcribed... and then translated again and again... anyhoo... i was big into the lotus sutra for some years, and practiced nichiren shoshu buddhism (a japanese buddhism which developed in the 13th century directly from the lotus sutra). however, the only thing i could think of as "true" buddhism now would have to be zen... but not zen in the meditationist new agey sense, rather zen in the non-sense. rather hard to explain in words of course, best explanation is a slap in the face or a bucket of ice down yer shorts... heck, even a wet willy or a wedgie heh... bah i'm digressing.

i'm pointless.

duality is bunk. nothing can be deduced so simply... just get rid of deduction.

you want truth? the sense of a good absinthe... in the mouth, on the tongue, in the nose... that's truth. and you can't get any more fuckin zen than the oh so beautiful louche.

i think that's one of the things that really draws me to drinking absinthe. the experience of zen that it is.

By Ariadnae on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Zack--

pretty darned funny! And ever since we've had to be worried about AIDS, at times sex has that sort of "clinical" intimacy that you describe...


And Marc has once again managed to make me blush!

By Marc on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 07:35 pm: Edit

zack,

you romantic fool you.

By Zack on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 07:28 pm: Edit

"Can you imagine, in the throes of passion, blurting out "oh I love to have intercourse with you, your vagina is so wet and my penis is about to explode". Just doesn't work."

Of course that works! Right before I pull out, remove my reinforced spermicide lubed latex condom, spray it with Lysol disinfectant and discard it in the recycling bin...Put on my second pair of rubber gloves and proceed to "reach ejaculation" over the newspaper I just laid down.

By Marc on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 07:28 pm: Edit

where's Big Mango Don? He's usually a reliable source for candid sexual anecdotes and a courageous point of view on all things poon.

And... Where the women at?

By Marc on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Its not romantic, but it is visually accurate:

steak curtains.

By Head_Prosthesis on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 07:17 pm: Edit

In the extensive and self-created lexicon of The Great Bonderosi there are quite a few colorful metaphors for the (Woofie's words) "female analogy".

The V-Hole (Just because it is)
Persia's Fuzzy Cliff (What's more mysterious to man?)
Magical Cavern (We all love a surprise)
The Happy Place (That was Zen this is Now)
Piper's Pit (Ala Rowdy Roddy)
Mama's Boo Boo (it won't heal 'cause Poppy keeps opening it up)

The list goes on...

By Marc on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 07:15 pm: Edit

ariadnae makes a good point.
How often do any of you moan or exclaim "penis" or "vagina" while you're fucking? For me, it's usually "god, your pussy's hot" or "suck my cock".
Can you imagine, in the throes of passion, blurting out "oh I love to have intercourse with you, your vagina is so wet and my penis is about to explode". Just doesn't work.

By Marc on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 06:45 pm: Edit

greetings ariadnae.

Fellow forumites,
ariadnae is a friend of mine, a beautiful, powerful, intelligent woman who has her own industrial/techno music radio show. She's a student of theology, a goth girl and has big tits. Make her feel at home.

By Ariadnae on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 06:24 pm: Edit

hello everyone...I finally found a reason to delurk here, and add a bit to the conversation.

As I recall from Buddhism, in the Vimalakirti Sutra, a certain dialogue concludes that dualism exisits in this world because we are dualistic creatures. We can transcend dualism, but it is not easy. We would have to attain the level of Bodhisattvah, and that's rather difficult for most of us trapped in samsara, constantly tripping up our good karma with bad.

However, there are times when the word "cunt" is not especially offensive. If the intended use of the word is not in a violent context. If I'm with a lover, and the word "vagina" would just destroy the mood. I'm not sure, though, if I'd be too happy with, was it, "meat pit"? (Sorry, Marc!) That's kind of creepy...

Most of the time sex, as it is understood in contemporary America, is connected to violence. To a degree, we can blame our media for this, but only to the point that it echoes what people want. I cannot outright blame religion for giving us our bad attitude about sex unless one is going to include all religions.

--Ariadnae

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 05:51 pm: Edit

"1 0 , on off, Is, isn't"

That is assuming one of many set theories...mathematics is funny. Depsite being totally inter-contradictory it still works most of the time....

By Mr_Rabbit on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 05:48 pm: Edit

1 0 , on off, Is, isn't.

The ultimate duality, and I think the only really valid one. Beyond that, I think it generally just gets in the way.

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 04:42 pm: Edit

I see that our old friend Plato had gotten to you too...

cold/hot - techinally there is not cold, only absencse of hot(moving atoms)
dark/light - " but with photons
night/day - construct
man/woman what about hermaphrodites, bisexed etc..
sweet/sour - how about sour bitter sweet (that comparison -is a contruct as well
large/small what about medium....

the difference seems semantic, but close observation will yield thoughts otherwise....

A Season in Hell is GREAT at disbanding dualism in all it's forms. Juxtapose Bapstism with Platonism and the poem comes alive.....


Just a thought...

By Marc on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 03:52 pm: Edit

justin,

you hate dualism. Do you hate cold/hot,dark/light,night/day/,man/woman,sweet/sour,large/small, winter/summer...?

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 03:34 pm: Edit

"God is a woman"

Not mine...my God just is.

"It acknowledges the dual nature of God, yin and yang..."

I hate dualism, it leads to almost all of western thought's fundamentla problems....The Critique of Pure Reason would not have to been written (and thus drudged though) if Neo-platonism would have not caught one. And now we extend our dualism to "eastern" thought....

By Marc on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 02:17 pm: Edit

morriganlefey,

I'm disappointed that you are focusing on the word "cunt" and not the entire thrust of my message, which is

God is a woman.

By Marc on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 02:11 pm: Edit

morriganlefey,

I made the Moulin Rouge comments with the intention of riling you and kallisti up. I wanted to get you involved a little more with this thread. I think its an important one.

Every word associated with sex or sexual organs
is used in ugly and hostile ways. Think about it.

fuck you, you cocksucker, you pussy, you prick, screw you,
blow me, shithead, piss off, what a jerk off, what an asshole, what a cunt...

The connecting of sex to violence is a rampant pathology. I believe religion has filled us with such guilt about sex, that we loathe it as much as we love it. We are conflicted, confused, at war with our own bodies. Approaching sexual words with love and respect is the beginning of a process toward becoming whole.

I make a point of trying not to use sexual words in hostile ways. Of course, occasionally I fuck up.

malhomme's desire to reclaim these words from hate
is a beautiful thing. I'm with him all the way.

By Perruche_Verte on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 02:08 pm: Edit

The Slits (with Ari Up) were a great punk band.

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 02:04 pm: Edit

"Often used hatefully"? Does that mean I shouldn't plant pansies in my yard, lest gays think my gardening is an act of insensitivity? I can't refer to these flowers except by their latin name? OK, bad analogy, but I can think of many words for vagina that are more crass (e.g., slit), and we can't please everyone all the time anyway.

"No bad words. Bad thoughts. Bad intentions. And words." Carlin

By Malhomme on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 01:28 pm: Edit

I can agree with Morrigan... it's a distasteful word, often used hatefully. However, it's a word that describes a wonderful thing. I've always wanted to claim the word back from hate... hence the Henry Miller quote. Does this make sense???

Jim

By Morriganlefey on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 11:19 am: Edit

"Let the ladies gather in the "Moulin Rouge" forum and discuss fashion and set design. The absinthe forum has traditionally been a mens' club."

Marc, it's statements like that that make it that way. You say that the Forum suffers from lack of mixed company. Do you think that stereotyping little comments like that do anything to encourage it? Other than make us angry - no.

As for me "darting into this thread and disappearing" - I've been here (in the Forum) for well over a year, and I've watched this thread, and your "God" thread develop. I read them both with interest, but chose not to comment because I had nothing nice to say. I simply DO NOT like the word, and doubt I ever will. Period.

- Morrigan

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 11:15 am: Edit

Blackjack,

Good explanation and probably correct.

However : "To this day, in primarily Catholic countries, you will find that sexual and scatological terms are not nearly as taboo as they are in English, and if you really want to offend someone, you take the Lord's name in vain."

This doesn't apply to Ireland, particularly in the Catholic South of Ireland. Swear words, both sexual and blasphemous (often side by side), are used in abundance and with great enthusiasm. But then we are a poetic nation and fond of using metaphors.

Hobgoblin

By _Blackjack on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 09:48 am: Edit


Quote:

Unless the Normans (who saw themselves as a reincarnation of the might of Rome) and their subjugation of the Anglo-Saxons in Britain, along with degrading the status of the Anglo-Saxon languages in favour of Old French, had something to do with it?



Tho many (but not all) "cuss" words are of Anglo-Saxon origin, their change in status took place towards the end of the 17th and beginning of the 18th centuries, long after the whole Saxon/Norman thing had faded away. The reason for the change had more to do with the rise of Protestantism. Previous to that, most offensive language in English was blasphemous, not sexual or scatological in nature ("God's Wounds!"). Protestantism placed much more of a focus on bodily sins than Catholicism, and as such, most words relating to sexual and excretory functions were purged from the language. The reason the Latin-derived words came into the language was because they were the terms used in medicine.

To this day, in primarily Catholic countries, you will find that sexual and scatological terms are not nearly as taboo as they are in English, and if you really want to offend someone, you take the Lord's name in vain.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 09:17 am: Edit

Artemis,

The problem with a forum is that if someone says something intended for a certain audience, or in a discussion with a few people, other people read it and choose to take offence.

In reality if you were having a conversation with a few people on a certain topic and someone overheard and took offence at it that person would most probably move away and start talking to another group of people. If someone takes offence at something written on the forum then they should ignore it (unless of course the comment is explicitly or implicitly directed at them) and join a conversation on another thread. If they want to join the conversation and express their distaste then they should not just expect others to agree with them. If we spend our time constantly worried that others may take offense at what we say we turn into bland individuals.

If someone was in a bar and overheard somebody talking about a "Cunt", should they go up to that person and say "Excuse me but I find the conversation that you are having with your friends quite offensive, please change your topic of conversation or alter your language"? I think not, at least not in the bars I drink in.

I suppose the word "Cunt" is deemed more offensive than the word "Vagina" because it usually tends to be used in more offensive contexts than "Vagina". This leads to people wrongly deeming the word to be offensive, when it is actually the context that is offensive. This is then reinforced by all the PC shite that gets rammed down people's throats.

Unless the Normans (who saw themselves as a reincarnation of the might of Rome) and their subjugation of the Anglo-Saxons in Britain, along with degrading the status of the Anglo-Saxon languages in favour of Old French, had something to do with it?

Hobgoblin

By Artemis on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 07:39 am: Edit

Well, I was afraid I was going to get hammered as a weenie, but I see this discussion has taken a positive turn exactly along the line I had hoped.

Thank you Marc, for your expanded disposition on the root of your original post, and for your intelligent defense of it. Also for not getting personal.

Thank you Head, for highlighting the penalty.

Anatomist's point is well taken also, but I'm more interested in the contrast between what we're willing to say here and to someone's face. Some time back somebody (maybe Anatomist) penned a provocative essay here on that subject, and it's been in my head ever since.

Lord H, I have never understood why two words mean exactly the same thing and one, the Anglo-Saxon word, comes to be a "cuss" word, and the other, the Latin word, is deemed the "polite" word, the word used in medical texts, etc.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 04:47 am: Edit

Blackjack,

I cannot claim to have a knowledge of etymology, but you do seem to have good knowledge in this area. My knowledge is based on my interest in Late-Roman to Early-Saxon British history and historical re-enactment, and 'Cunt' was the term used by Saxons to describe a scabbard for a sword or seax. If the Old Norse word for pussy was 'Kunta' then it would be reasonable to assume that the Saxons used a very similar word. Perhaps 'Cunt' or something sounding very similar evolved as the slang and most commonly used Saxon word for scabbard as a result of the similarities in function as you say.

The bulk of modern 'swear-words' which most commonly offend seem to have evolved from Anglo-Saxon words. Although I find it strange why people get offended at the mere utterance of certain words. It is the context in which words (any words, not just 'swear-words') are used that should be considered offensive and not the words themselves. I fail to see any offensive context in which the word 'Cunt' has been used in this forum recently.

Hobgoblin

By Marc on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 10:30 pm: Edit

Let the ladies gather in the "Moulin Rouge" forum and discuss fashion and set design. The absinthe forum has traditionally been a mens' club. On the occasions I've tried to invite women into discussions in the forum, they'll pop in and then quickly disappear as the men continue to spar and wrangle. So, the notion of "mixed company" in the forum is a little abstract to me. This joint is dominated by men and man talk. I wish it were otherwise. Morriganlefey darts into this thread
to comment on the c-word and then disappears.
Suddenly all the boys get p.c. and sensitive.
For every post by a woman, there are probably
100 posts made by men. This forum is hardly mixed company. And I think it suffers as a result.

By Anatomist1 on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 09:58 pm: Edit

I agree that talking about cunny-munching in a mixed setting is likely to result in enormous and immediate unpopularity... at least with just about everyone I've encountered in the last ten years. Then again, it has been my experience that just about anything I have to say outside of stultified, meaningless pleasantries will most likely result in nervous laughter followed by a wide-eyed stupor, followed by an excuse to flee the scene as soon as possible.

OK, I'm exaggerating. But, I find that the turn of a seemingly benign phrase is all that separates a listener's intrigue from horror in a depressingly large array of social situations. It's ridiculous. I don't know how the slouching, mumbling multitudes live with themselves. I've taken to deliberately scaring people just to get it over with. I'd rather live a single day in solitude as a proudly erect hominid, than an entire life as a shrinking sub-vertebrate. Maybe this town is worse than I thought it was...

K.

By Marc on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 07:26 pm: Edit

regarding dicussing eating pussy in mixed company:
I do it all the time.

Recently I made the following statement in mixed company:

"Jennifer doesn't shave her armpits during the winter months. I like it. Its like having a wife with three pussies."

After a little nervous laughter, a floodgate
of conversation opened. The subject: poontang.

I find that men and women want to talk about this stuff, together. Its liberating and educational.

By Marc on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 07:21 pm: Edit

I think that juxtaposing the word "God" and the word "cunt" has a certain resonance. It acknowledges the dual nature of God, yin and yang,
it challenges the notion of what is sacred and what is profane, and it poses the question:
does God have a cunt? If God is the source of all life , if God gave birth to all things, then He must have a cunt. If "He" has a cunt, is He a he?
As a guy who was raised Catholic, I still get a
kick out of blaspheming. Having sat at the feet of William Burroughs, I also believe that words are like viruses. They can infect and alter organisms. By combining words in an unexpected ways you can alter consciousness. This is what the surrealists believed. And so do I.

I find the word "cunt" strong, powerful and beautiful, a word that does justice to what it symbolizes.

"and now, all hail to thee, pink palace...

o cleft, moist and soft cleft, dear dizzying abyss..."

Louis Aragon, Irene's Cunt

By _Blackjack on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 07:19 pm: Edit


Quote:

Would any man here walk into a room containing attentive women, and start talking about cunnilingus, regardless of the terminology used?



Yeah, sure. But then again, most of my friends are lesbians. They're more likely to bring it up than I am.

By Head_Prosthesis on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 06:34 pm: Edit

The Great Bonderosi wouldn't have a problem at all...
Though that's probably why he's single and living in his mother's trailer home.

By Artemis on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 05:47 pm: Edit

I don't want to be misunderstood. There ARE no "obscene" words.

I was talking about manners. Would any man here walk into a room containing attentive women, and start talking about cunnilingus, regardless of the terminology used?

That's what I thought.

By Morriganlefey on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 04:09 pm: Edit

Artemis - Your notions are correct - that is EXACTLY why I did not join in the other thread.

And Blackjack, women DO take pride in discussing and "empowering" our 'nether-regions', we just believe that the reference used should roll as nicely off the tongue as the region itself *intentional smirk*.

- M

By _Blackjack on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 01:15 pm: Edit

I have no idea whether it is ALSO used for "sheath", but my sources on the etymolgy of the word are pretty strong, considering its cognates in other languages. The same Indo-European root, *gwen-, also gave us the Latin, "cunnus", and the Old Norse, "kunta," both with the same meaning.

There is another Indo-European root, *ku-, from which derived many Germanic words like "cottege" and "cubby" and which means "enclosure" or "lump". This would be the more likely root of the use of "cunt" for "sheath." It is not unlikely that there was influence between the words, considering the obvious...analogous function.

Incidentally, the word "vagina" DOES mean "sheath," in Latin, and was likely a pun based on the fact that "gladius," meaning sword, was Latin slang for the penis.

Why, incidentally, do people still refuse to actually type "obscene" words. It is the idea, not the form of the letters, that some find objectionable. If we all know what the word is, what's the point of hiding it? It's not the tetragrammaton; you aren't going to unleash any horrible power by putting "unt" next to a "c."

By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 12:34 pm: Edit

Actually the word 'cunt' is an Anglo-Saxon term for a scabbard (Blackjack as a sword-freak I thought you would have known this, I own a 6th century replica Saxon broad-sword, with cunt of course). A Saxon warrior would stick his sword back into his cunt after battle.

Hobgoblin

By Zack on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Thanks Blackjack, now were gonna have two threads about c--- going on.

By _Blackjack on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 11:10 am: Edit

The word "cunt" has a long and glorious history. It comes from the same Indo-European root as the word "queen" and the Greek "gune," meaning woman, from which we get words like "gynecology". It was not considered obscene until the early 18th century, when most other English sexual words became taboo. Previous to that, it was the standard English word for the female pudendum, and even appeared in personal and place names(!)

I understand Morrigan's issues with it, considering how it is used today, but I myself like the word and wish women would embrace and empower it. The word SHOULDN'T be offensive, because the thing it describes certainly isn't. I think it is high time we abandoned the puritanical legacy of refusing to discuss sexual matters without resorting to the clinical ("vulva") or juvenile ("pussy.")

By Artemis on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 10:54 am: Edit

I dallied with the idea of making a post here to the effect that, does anybody wonder why NONE of the women have joined that discussion? But I held back, because I decided it was obvious. Some things are not suitable for conversation in mixed company. I can't imagine anybody, for example, starting that discussion at the gathering in NOLA.
So why do we feel free to blather on about it here?

This is NOT a criticism of Marc, whom I still love, but Morrigan is not the first woman I've heard say what she said.

By Morriganlefey on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 10:49 am: Edit

Personally, I'll be glad when God's C___ retires from these threads. I know Marc meant well, but I find "the c word" to be among the most offensive words out there.

- M

By Zack on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 08:37 am: Edit

I've seen some very amusing video of those snake-handling hicks. There were more snakes in those peoples mouths than there were teeth.

By Artemis on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 07:36 am: Edit

I vote we introduce them to the snake handling churches in the Appalachian regions of the U.S.
Let's see if Allah smiles upon them as they fondle a five-foot long diamondback rattler.

By Heiko on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 06:27 am: Edit

Good, so let's do them a favor and shoot 'em all, so they will all go to heaven cos they fought a holy war ;-)

By Petermarc on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 05:42 am: Edit

careful, we must respect their religious beliefs...

By Heiko on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 05:15 am: Edit

Or blow him up with dynamite, like those fuckin' Taliban bastards....

By Petermarc on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 05:08 am: Edit

if you see buddah walking on the road, kick his arse?

By Absinthedrinker on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 02:00 am: Edit

Sorry, I couldn't resist it, I've been staring at God's cunt at the top of the threads all week, felt that other relegions should get a look in.

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