UK Absinthe Forum Meeting on 20th May THE VENUE HAS CHANGED

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: UK Absinthe Forum Meeting on 20th May THE VENUE HAS CHANGED
By Heiko on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 01:25 pm: Edit

"I also find the idea of trying to make war "humane" rather absurd."

That's right. Even more when western industry still produces landmines.
I guess it's a typical pc thing: some guy behind his desk figured out what to ban and what not. If the "humane" bullets only hit your liver, your balls and your legs, I wouldn't call that humane death either...

Another case where they talk about "humane killing" is death penalty: Why don't they just give people a shot in the neck? THAT would be fast and humane. But no, they come up with methods like a gas chamber or lethal injection. I never understood that...

By _Blackjack on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 11:36 am: Edit

My pal Johnny* has a Mossberg 590 with a bayonet lug. It also has a pistol grip which, under federal law, qualifies it as an "assault weapon," despite the fact that, for all intents and purposes, it is the exact same gun as the Mossberg 500 which thousands upon thousands of people have been hunting with for decades.

I'd have a lot more respect for the gun-control people if they stopped passing silly laws...

I also find the idea of trying to make war "humane" rather absurd. "OK, we can't shoot you with expanding bullets, but it's OK to drop bombs on your house and crush you under tons of rubble..."


* Johnny is one of the few people I've met who genuinely qualifies as a "gun nut". After his wife left him, he developed a bad habit of firing guns off indoors. On one occasion, I answered his phone for him, but he didn't feel like getting up off the couch, so he blew the phone base off the wall with a .410 derringer, while I was still holding the handset...

By Thegreenimp on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Don,
Wern't shotguns used by the US as the earliest form of a "Trench Broom" during the First World War?
I believe I saw a photo of a combat shotgun with bayonet attached as well.
Interesting artifact.
Regards
Jay

By Don_Walsh on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 08:40 pm: Edit

I seem to recall that the Hague Convention forbad the military use of shotguns, but the US and other countries, notably Germany, have been developing combat shotguns for decades. The HK Close Assault Weapon fires brass shotgun shells with a rimless belted head configuration and tungsten buckshot, with an effective range of 150 meters, it is magazine fed and selective fire. NOT for duck hunting.

And the Korean-made USAS-12 evolved from the Atchisson Assault Shotgun; I participated in this project from the start. This beast has a 20 round drum and is relatively controllable on full auto. But it fires conventional 12 gauge.

By _Blackjack on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 04:02 pm: Edit

I haven't been able to come up with the specific citation that bans the use of .50's on personnel. The Geneva Convention website's search functions are sorely lacking (which could be annoying, if you're being charged by the enemy, and you're armed with a .50 cal rifle, you need to be able to find out quickly if you are allowed to return fire ;) I have seen several secondary references to the idea. However, the place where it seems most likely to be is in Protocol I, from 1977, which the US never formally ratified.

The prohibition on expanding bullets, BTW, predates the Geneva Convention. It dates to the Hague Declaration of 1899.

By Mr_Rabbit on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 02:34 pm: Edit

I knew a fellow who saw some 'peacekeeping' bloodshed in Bosnia. They were officially prohibited from using .50 cal weapons on human beings (he was US army.)

They were for use on vehicles and buildings and such. In their reports, they would list rounds expended on the destruction of enemy belt buckles the same way they did the destruction of enemy trucks. They were in fact often ordered to go after backpacks, belt buckles, and uniforms.

By Dr_Ordinaire on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 08:18 am: Edit

I would like to add a bit to the history of dum-dum bullets. Apparently they were necessary because regular bullets would not stop Indian rebels.

Now, British ammunition (specially handgun ammo) was famously wimpy but...this being the land of "ganja" and even of the obscure Soma...maybe those "Uber-independence-fighters" were fueled by something more than patriotism... :-)

By Don_Walsh on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 03:31 am: Edit

The whole 'dum-dum' thing has some interesting history. First of all, the 'dum-dum' bullets were originally hand modified ammunition at the Dum Dum Arsenal in 19 century (British) India and involved sawing off ot filing away the jacket to allow core seperation on impact. There is very little comparison to be made between these and the soft point or expanding type projectiles encountered in sporting type ammunition. However the 20th century military conventions do mandate a full metal jacket. The idea was to reduce unnecessary suffering. Unfortunately this logic is not always very clear. Militarily, it is better to wound than to kill as it places the burden on caring for the wounded on the opposing force, thus tying up 2-3 infantrymen for every won wounded.

This controversy surfaced again with the emergence of the 5.56mm M193. Early hyped reports of the extraordinary terminal performance of the 55 grain FMJ projectile fired from M16 in Vietnam, coupled with stupid press accounts of 'tumbling' bullets (which never existed) led to a mostly European body of opinion that the M193 was inhumane. Thus when FN's ballisticians designed the SS109, 62 grain semi-AP 5.56mm projectile in the late 70s, they deliberately tried to make it a 'humane' projectile. HOWEVER the SS109, which is now NATO standard, is longer than the M193 and has a steel core instead of lead. It has a pronounced tendency to break in half when it hits a target, which is certainly less 'humane' than its predecessor's tendency to merely flip over after impact. Tests at the US Army's Wound Ballistics Lab in the 80s certainly indicated that the faster-spinning SS-109 has markedly superior lethality compared to the M193 as well as longer effective range. Take note that this ammunition is not and has never been available to civilians in USA. This is because the US Secret Service saw to it that ATF went the long way round the block to place it in the Biaggi Bill 'armor piercing handgun' ammunition category. The real issue had to do with effectiveness against 'executive' body armor.

By Dr_Ordinaire on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 02:35 am: Edit

"I think there was a prohibition against anti-personnel use of .50's in one of the later protocols tacked onto the Geneva Convention in the late '70's, but we never ratified it."

Blackjack, I am not a gun expert, but I find unusual that the Geneva convention would ban .50 caliber bullets (about 13mm), for anti-personnel use)when 20mm caliber bullets are (or were) traditional in airplanes' machine guns. I doubt that any pilot would miss the opportunity to strafe ground troups...

Or is this prohibition similar to the one about dum-dum (expanding) bullets? What do you think?

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, May 27, 2001 - 06:08 pm: Edit

Unserialized receivers are OK for a manufacturer to sell 'in the ehite' TO ANOTHER MANUFACTURER to be completed. Not to anyone else. That was always the case, at least through the late 80's when I quit tracking the BATF regs because I was no longer under their heavy thumb.

The Barrett, of course is just a semiauto rifle under Title 1, not a NFA weapon and not by any stretch of the imagination firing a 'handgun' cartridge, and therefore can be bought by anyone 18 or older not otherwise debarred under the GCA68. Prior to '68, rifles and shotguns did not by law require a serial number, and some older usually poorer such firearms may not have one. However that loophole, except for the manuf-to-manuf provision cited above, went away 33 years ago.

Presently, caliber .50 (0.510") is the largest caliber regarded as a Title 1 firearm (larger ones are regarded as Destructive Devices) although a lot of African big-bore bolt guns and double rifles are exempted from this, mostly because ammunition for them is virtually unobtainable or very costly, and they certainly possess 'significant sporting purpose'. Congress drew this line in '68 in the GCA over concern about anti-tank guns like the Lahti 20mm, Solothurn 20mm, Boys .55, etc -- early WWII relics that Interarms was selling and that occasionally did get used in a crime (like the attack on the UN building when Castro visited).

BTW it is sadly untrue that the Barrett was never used in a crime. The Branch Davidians fired on BATF with one at Waco. So much for Kevlar! (However, none of the dead agents were felled by a .50 as I recall. And they had a significant friendly fire problem.)

By _Blackjack on Sunday, May 27, 2001 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Don,

The Barrett (and subsequent civilian knockoffs) was the weapon I meant. There has been a big furor about them in the past few months because it was discovered that somebody was selling a kit that would let people build their own. The problem was, it included the reciever, with no serial number. Now, the guy claims the BATF told him it was OK to sell non-serialed recievers for personal use, but it seems they've changed their minds.

Anyway, someone screamed "won't someone think of the children?" and now congress is trying to find a way to ban them, despite the fact that they have never been used in crimes and are pretty damn impractical for such use, what with costing 7 grand and being gigantic.

But, yeah, they're "anti-materiel" weapons. "Aim for his belt-buckle..." I think there was a prohibition against anti-personnel use of .50's in one of the later protocols tacked onto the Geneva Convention in the late '70's, but we never ratified it.

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, May 27, 2001 - 02:34 am: Edit

"Grab one of them snazzy the-Geneva-Convention-says-you-can't-use-on-people .50 caliber BMG's before the feds figure out how to ban them!"

Blackjack: are you talking about .50 Browning MGs or .50 sniper rifles?

I doubt that the various laws of land warfare say anything about restricting the use of .50 MGs. The .50 Browning was widely used in WWII by the Allies, the Germans had various 13mm, 15mm and 20mm heavy MGs, the Russians had and have 12.7mm and 14.5mm heavy MGs as tank and AA armament. We still use the .50 Maw Deuce and various other .50 MGs have been developed. The M-85 tank MG, the Dover Devil, the Singapore .50, the Saco Light 50, the Danish Madsen .50 to mention just a few. FN Herstal was developing a 15mm HMG in the 80s. During and after WWII the US had a nifty .60 caliber machinegun under development. The cartridge was developed before WWII for a semiauto antitank rifle and there is good reason to believe that this was the basis for the Soviet 14.5 PTRS a/t rifle concept. The Russian knockoff catridge was later adopted for the KPV HMG used in tanks and ZPU series AA weapons. Much later the M.T.Kalashnikov design group did a 12.7mm HMG as a repolacement for the older DShK 12.7's that are so widely proliferated.

.50 sniper rifles used to be one-off modifications of antitank rifles, and saw very limited use in the Korean War. Dedicated, made from scratch .50 bolt actions are a 1980s special operations fad, including both bolt actions such as Haskins, McMillan, etc. and semiautos like the Barrett (which is about the only one ever encountered on the civilian market). These were developed for specific, often classified military tasks, which generally did not include anti-personnel use, but were of an long range anti-materiel nature that I still can't be more specific about.

I was involved with the late Jerry Haskins, and know Ronnie Barrett quite well. These rifles require special optics which are generally not available to civilians -- not by law but because Leupold doesn't want to sell them to anyone nut the military and the police -- and are quite heavy (20-30 lbs) and still need a hell of a good muzzle brake to keep the recoil down to tolerable levels.

By _Blackjack on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 02:20 pm: Edit

In the immortal words of Richard Pryor, in America, if you have money or a gun, you can eat any time you want...

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 04:35 am: Edit

Blackjack,

"Just to warn you, you may ought to stock up on guns first, because the 'Merkins have most of them. Really. There is a gun for every man, woman and child in the US..."

You can't eat bullets (not even if you're from Pennysylvania) they taste even worse than casino chips. Forget the hot wars or the cold wars, this will be the hungry war.

Hobgoblin

By Head_Prosthesis on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Heiko, I know you're right about Doom. However I have confused the introduction of the BFG9000 with Duke when it was really Quake.

The BFG FAQ

By Heiko on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Head,
I think the BFG was from Doom - but I'm not sure anymore, haven't played Duke 3D in a while,
and Duke Forever was to be released four years ago... I'm still waiting for it...

By Anatomist1 on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 06:24 pm: Edit

Not all wastelands have been ravaged. Some were just born wastelands. Know your roots... if you're australian, this might have a whole different jist.

K.

By _Blackjack on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 05:55 pm: Edit


Quote:

, you need a long range rifle with a nice scope so you can snipe...



Grab one of them snazzy the-Geneva-Convention-says-you-can't-use-on-people .50 caliber BMG's before the feds figure out how to ban them! They've already got rid of the do-it-yourself mail-order kits.

By Head_Prosthesis on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Where's your standard BFG?
You can't ravage the wasteland(hmm? I guess it's been ravaged if it's a wasteland) without one.

By Heiko on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 04:33 pm: Edit

I like to have with me:

-automatic pistol which does normal damage
-Shotgun: packs a far more powerful blast than the pistol and is best used in close range situations.
-Ripper: rapid fire chaingun is a good weapon for dispersing several enemies at once.
-Rocket Launcher: great for dealing with enemies from a distance.
-Pipe Bombs
-Shrinker: This slick weapon will shrink your enemies to pint-sized for several seconds.
-Microwaver: this weapon will superheat any enemy and cause it to expand until it finally "pops" into a bloddy mess.
-The Devastator: Straight out of the Pentagon's top secret labs comes this double barreled brute of a weapon which lets loose swarms of miniature stinger missiles in the direction of your enemies.
-Tripbombs: strategic weapon which you place on flat walled surfaces. Perfect for setting devious traps and barriers.
-The Freezer: this weapon chills its victim down to the point of death and ultimate crystallization. Once the enemy is frozen, you'll only have a few seconds to shatter him beyond the point of recovery.

I've always known it: DUKE NUKEM IS A TEXAN!!!

By Anatomist1 on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 04:02 pm: Edit

"There is a gun for every man, woman and child in the US, but only about half of households have any at all, and you can guess which people have more than their fair share. "

Hell, two guns ain't even close to a fair share. It all depends on what you're doing. First of all you need your sidearm - preferably a revolver for reliability. This is your last ditch weapon, exepting the three or four knives you have strapped to various parts of your body. Next, you need a sawed off shotgun for close-quarters, indoor action - I usually keep this one strapped in a custom velcro holster diagonally across my back. OK, that's your basic self-defense kit.

On to minimal offensive capabilites: you've got to have an automatic rifle that holds tons of rounds in case you have to mow your way through a crowd, storm a facility, or lay down covering fire. Then, you need a long range rifle with a nice scope so you can snipe... better throw in some night vision goggles too. Next, you really should have some kind of explosives that can be deployed and detonated later from a remote location. You should probably also have some kind of electronic security monitoring equipment and dogs, so you can set up a safe perimeter.

Throw in a surly attitude and that's your basic personal arsenal. I think the State of Texas issues all this stuff with every home purchased...

K.

By Heiko on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Melinelly,

if it wasn't for the capitalistic icing of the cake - does any country including the US accept Taiwan as a free country? Not officially as far as I know. They'd be as fucked as Tibet if they weren't good at producing computer parts at low costs.
I know many people who'd go on the barricades if they couldn't get cheap memory upgrades and CDR's anymore - they definitely wouldn't do the same to save Taiwan because of political reasons.

By Heiko on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 03:03 pm: Edit

I lose my head from time to time.
Then I have a relaxing cigarette on the table and wait 'til the smoke clears.

By Pataphysician on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Heiko's Holiday in Cambodia.

By Head_Prosthesis on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Could it be the HEAD of CHONG!

By Melinelly on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 01:08 pm: Edit

wonder what vera can do with that pic to pretty him up =/

By Melinelly on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 01:05 pm: Edit

the commie absinthe board elite have spirited heiko off to neverneverland!

ha!

By Melinelly on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 01:04 pm: Edit

heiko, the capitalistic aspects of taiwan's existence are only a bonus, the icing on the cake... it's not US corporate interest that protects taiwan, but US military interest. that's how it's been since the nationalists ran off to their little island. just look at the activity since Bush has taken office. the powers that be are testing the waters of a new cold war. they're using taiwan to boost china's fear of "western" threat in the hopes that china will enter into an arms race to be able to deal with the US on terms the Soviet Union was once able to... which also has its capitalistic intentions because in this day and age, military industry is big BIG business and since the fall of the soviet bloc has been looking downsizing and pink slips right in the eye.

By Morriganlefey on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 01:03 pm: Edit

Umm...Heiko? What happened to your lovely profile photo? You don't look so wide-eyed & winsome anymore.

By Head_Prosthesis on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:50 pm: Edit

Taht's what I'm saying. Like when the Teletubbies defeated the Smurfs

By Heiko on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Melinelly,

it was simplified, that's right. Taiwan's best protection is indeed Microsoft, Sun Microsystems, IBM...
They have the monopole in the production of memory chips. One earthquake in Taiwan and the price for RAM chips doubles...

I was more thinking of a capitalistic defeat. Most people in western countries (well, except Texans) do not want to work 16 hours a day. The people in third world countries will do everything that gives them the slightest chance for a better life.
I believe you just have to look at history to see what will happen: the Greek were defeated by the Romans, the Romans by the Germanic tribes, Europe by America (very much simplified). Someone will always be there to defeat an empire that became decadent...

By _Blackjack on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:31 pm: Edit


Quote:

...and for every single bullet available in the US, there are a dozen Chinese and Indians...



Um, no, I don't think so. I'll be generous and figure 2 billion Chinese and Indians. There are about 250 million guns in the US. That's only 8 bullets per gun. If everybody only had enough 1 full load, we'd be pretty close, depending on the agerage capacity. Even if we were all only packing six-shooters, we wouldn't all have to reload...

By _Blackjack on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:25 pm: Edit


Quote:

..."Eskimo" means "eater of raw meat" - a term the "Inuit" (which I think means "people") consider to be an insult.



I THINK that isn't true, but I can't find my reference. As I recall, you CAN get something resembling "eskimo" by mangling a neighboring people's language for "eater of raw meat," but it isn't proper usage and isn't the source of the term.

Ooh, I found it! My web-fu is mighty:

http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxeskimo.html

But you are right, Inuit means "people."

By Melinelly on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:21 pm: Edit

heiko, don't oversimplify. there are class distinctions in taiwan, china, and india just as in any "western" country and usually greater. china is as much a communist state as the united states is a democracy. any wealth gained will not be distributed among the masses. chinese communism showed promise a few decades ago, but in the end, the bureaucrats won out and the pigs there are just as evil as the pigs here =)

also, if 'western" civilization were to fall, Taiwan would no longer exist. the only reason Taiwan is not a part of China is because of US support.

By Heiko on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:14 pm: Edit

...and for every single bullet available in the US, there are a dozen Chinese and Indians...

I think when "the time has come" all the western countries will be run over by Taiwan, China, India. Not communism will take over but the million people who want their share of wealth...

By Melinelly on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:09 pm: Edit

similarly, global orientation...

"western" civilization that stretches over half the globe... the "far east" which is just west across the ocean from the western edge of "western" civilization... the largest nation in the "east" is the "middle kingdom" just north of the "land down under" and west of the "land of the rising sun"... etc.

By _Blackjack on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:07 pm: Edit


Quote:

Yes, comrade Hobgoblin. And come that glorious day we shall hang Chong with the guts of Anatomist.



Just to warn you, you may ought to stock up on guns first, because the 'Merkins have most of them. Really. There is a gun for every man, woman and child in the US, but only about half of households have any at all, and you can guess which people have more than their fair share. By some estimates, the a gun-owning population of Pennsylvania alone constitutes the fifth largest army in the world.

By Heiko on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:06 pm: Edit

..."Eskimo" means "eater of raw meat" - a term the "Inuit" (which I think means "people") consider to be an insult.
This is the only example I knew.

By _Blackjack on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:04 pm: Edit


Quote:

Man cannot live on casino chips alone.



Tell that to the Lakota...

By _Blackjack on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 12:02 pm: Edit


Quote:

We have ended the Stalinist USSR and have installed Dubya to carry out a policy of accellerated global warming.



Ah, but in doing so, you will flood the coastal cities of the US, drowning anything vaguely resembling a Left in the country and leaving the vast praries full of, well, Kevin, to run willy-nilly with no "book-learnin' city-folk" to keep them in check.

By _Blackjack on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 11:59 am: Edit

Interestingly, a LOT of peoples, worldwide, are known by what their neighbors called them, not by what they call themselves. Before the idea of nationalism was very strong, it was not uncommon for a people to only define the "us" by knowing who "they" were. It's not just a matter of different languages having different names for the same people. A lot of peoples didn't really have an idea of themselves except by contrast to foreigners.

A good example are the Germans (from the name the Romans used for them), who called (and still call) themselves "Deutsche," which comes from the Germanic root meaning "people" or "nation." Of course, the Netherlanders called themselves a variation of the same word, which has lead to no end of confusion on the part of Americans. Similarly, "Wales" comes from a Germanic root, meaning "foreign," while the Welsh called themselves "Cymry," meaning "fellow countrymen."

Other examples: both "India" and "Hindu" come from the Persian name for the Indus valley. "Hinduism," as a concept, was foreign to India. They didn't see their beliefs as a single religion, but the Zoroastrian Persians did, by contrast. Similarly, it was the Chinese who named the traditional Japanese religion, Shinto.

I'm sure there are LOTS of others, but these are the ones that I could think of off the top of my head.

By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 11:10 am: Edit

Pata,

Better still lock them up in each others company for the rest of their lives ;-)

By Pataphysician on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 11:07 am: Edit

Yes, comrade Hobgoblin. And come that glorious day we shall hang Chong with the guts of Anatomist.

By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 11:06 am: Edit

Man cannot live on casino chips alone.

By Marc on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 11:04 am: Edit

"barren wasteland"

so what's new? I live in Las Vegas.

By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 11:00 am: Edit

Anatomist,

I'm a Socialist, a Marxist, a dialectical materialist and a Trotskyite. I've never really thought of myself as a Communist but have no objection to being labelled as such if it makes it easier for the mentally-challenged who find it difficult to think beyond terms of 'right and left' (or maybe also 'centre' on a good day).

We have ended the Stalinist USSR and have installed Dubya to carry out a policy of accellerated global warming. When the time is right WE will seize control of the Russian Federation, Siberia will have then become a fertile garden of Eden and any American State south of Alaska will become a barren wasteland. The empire you serve will crumble and you Anatomist will have to rely on food aid.

Have faith comrade Pata, patience is a virtue.

By _Blackjack on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 10:59 am: Edit


Quote:

Cunning, attunement to the rythms of the land, and just plain being hardcore motherfuckers.



Shame they had no immunity to smallpox...

By Pataphysician on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 10:51 am: Edit

The "Sioux" are made up of three groups, which are distinguished by their slightly different languages: Lakota, Dakota and Nakota. There are several smaller tribes within each of those groups, e.g., Wahpeton, Sicangu, Oglala, etc.

By Artemis on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 10:20 am: Edit

Could be the Crow called everybody else Sioux, I don't know. I'm just going by what I read in "Hanta Yo".

The Lakota were pretty numerous as Indian tribes go, with a lot of sub-tribes or small bands within the larger group. Maybe that's what you're thinking of.

By Anatomist1 on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 09:57 am: Edit

Hmmm. It's been a while since I've looked through books on indian history. I seem to remember more tribes than just the Lakota being referred to as "Sioux", and that it wasn't the official name they called themselves. I guess I need a trip to the library.

K.

By Artemis on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 08:38 am: Edit

"various plains tribes we called the Sioux"

Just one tribe, really. They called themselves "Lakota" (it means something like, "the people who stick together") as Anatomist also pointed out.

They came out of the woods in Minnesota, crossed the Missouri River onto the plains, got on horseback and then were hell on wheels (hooves, anyway). Their enemy, the Crow tribe, called them Sioux (a short form of their word for "worms"). Most Indian tribes had a cool, exclusive name for themselves (The People, The Human Beings) and an insulting name for other tribes (The Assholes, The Ones Who Shit in Their Teepee, etc.).

Since the white man usually learned the name of a given tribe from a neighboring tribe:

What are those people across the river called?

Who, them? They're the assholes!

By Head_Prosthesis on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 07:59 pm: Edit

America says "What were you saying?"

By Heiko on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 07:50 pm: Edit

Alphasoixante,

perfect! ;-)

By Alphasoixante on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 06:24 pm: Edit

"Ginsberg was such a shame for proud Americans. Must have been one of those sissie Europeans. And a jew. And bad looking. And queer. And writing free verse poems. Ugh. That no good. Good to know there's still artists in the US who uphold values. Bad luck nobody knows them."

America, this is the impression I get when I look into the internet. America, is this correct?

By Verawench on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 02:47 pm: Edit

I'd like to invite James Bond, Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev and Kevin over for poker. Serve up some Hill's (shaken, not stirred) and see what happens.

Unfortunately James is fictional, Nikita's dead and the third would probably smell a conspiracy and refuse to come. Blasted.

By Pataphysician on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 02:38 pm: Edit

OK, you flushed me out. I'm a commie, too. The jig is up. Step One was to make the masses believe that Communism was merely Political Correctness. Step Two was to dissolve the Soviet Union, so your guard would be down. Step Three was finding the most ineffectual conservative boob and installing him as President of the United States. It was all working so well until that meddling Anatomist showed up. Curses, foiled again!

By Heiko on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 02:30 pm: Edit

"[...]
America it's them bad Russians.
Them Russians them Russians and them Chinamen. And them Russians.
The Russia wants to eat us alive. The Russia's power mad. She wants to take our cars from out our garages.
Her wants to grab Chicago. Her needs a Red Reader's Digest. Her wants our auto plants in Siberia. Him big bureaucracy running our fillingstations.
That no good. Ugh. Him make Indians learn read. Him need big black niggers. Hah. Her make us all work sixteen hours a day. Help.
[...]"

Ginsberg was such a shame for proud Americans. Must have been one of those sissie Europeans. And a jew. And bad looking. And queer. And writing free verse poems. Ugh. That no good.

Good to know there's still artists in the US who uphold values. Bad luck nobody knows them.

I'm not contradicting myself.

By Anatomist1 on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 02:03 pm: Edit

AHA! Another communist! Start naming names, and I'll go easy on you.

K.

By Lordhobgoblin on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Anatomist,

I misjudged you, you are indeed aware that your nation's people are indeed a wide and varied mix (a very positive feature indeed) maybe you do ocassionally manage to put down your bottle of bud, pause from cleaning your collection of semi-automatic rifles and venture out of the midwest from time to time.

However the ancestors you refer to as your ancestors that 'kicked the asses' of the ancestors of the British (although not strictly true regarding today's British) were indeed of European descent (not too many native Americans or Negro slaves willingly taking part in your war of independence). As far as that war goes anyway, good result. However you'd do well to remember that every empire has it's day, virtually all 'Western' nations have had an empire in their time and American imperialism won't last forever either, it's just a newer empire than those of the European nations.

As for Texas, isn't that the state where a rather famous Irish president of the your nation got his brains blown out?

And Anatomist, please don't label the politically correct ultra-liberal wing on this forum as communist. Apart from being inaccurate it is offensive to communists on the forum.

Hobgoblin

By Alphasoixante on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 09:24 am: Edit

picture3

By _Blackjack on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 01:46 am: Edit

The closest Denny's is in Fairfax, and I'm banned from that one...

By Dr_Ordinaire on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 12:03 am: Edit

I have never seen a such wide-ranging thread as this. I'm in awe... This thread should be frozen and its DNA preserved...

By Marc on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 11:46 pm: Edit

The absinthe forum has been a blast to hang out in lately. The arguments have been lively, the humor off-the-wall, lots of bizarre shit to look at, haikus, chicks hangin' out, porn, drama-queening, teenage romance....good stuff.

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 11:30 pm: Edit

They're Hermaphrodites! Just like Jamie Lee Curtis.

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 11:26 pm: Edit

DEALING WITH SLUGS:

My first encounter with slugs was in 1979. Before that I cannot really recall an awareness of their existence. Penthadros in 1979 was a building site. At this time we began to use shoe horns to place the slugs deep in our throats and revel in the sensation of them trying to escape the rythyms of our nubile esophagi.

genital.jpg

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 11:16 pm: Edit

Well alright. That cured my hunger.

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 11:12 pm: Edit

Anyone ever have vivid dreams about whipping up a bowl of cold worm/slug-like creatures? Part of you knows it's very healthy, the other has to admit the grubs are the most disgusting meal you've ever encountered. You cannot conceive of finishing the bowl.

sucker.jpg


Class: Hirudinea
This organism is parasitic living on the blood it extracts from a host.

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 11:09 pm: Edit

I feel your pain, the only way might be to go to Denny's... Nah screw that idea.

Anatomist sure knows how to hurt a guy.

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 10:59 pm: Edit

Dammit, now I want nachos. Do you know how hard it is to get decent Nachos at 2 in the morning? I'll end up eating the ones from 7-11 with the platicine cheese-food and the meat-flavored chili product...

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 10:47 pm: Edit

Those sure look good.

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 10:45 pm: Edit

Nacho! Did somebody say Nachos?


muchosnachos.jpg


K.

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 10:41 pm: Edit

Ah never seen one in daylight. They sure look purtty in them picture books and on them video programs. Ah hear they drink human blood and can move thorugh walls like ghosts.

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 10:19 pm: Edit


Quote:

But, I've noticed alot of goth girls are socially retarded.



Marc, I think you're swell, but them's fightin' words. Maybe it's Anatomist's macho influence, but I feel the need to defend our womenfolk. Let's you and me rassle...

(None of this should be taken to imply that the women of the goth subculture aren't perfectly capable of defending themselves, nor, in fact, that a lot of them may or may not be socially retarded. I just don't like to see my own kind attacked.)

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 07:09 pm: Edit

Although couched in the jocular rantings of a shadow persona, many of the points I made, I believe. The unacknowledged influences of indian culture on what we are are vast. Many of the indian warriors that have come to life in my mind via historical accounts are my heroes.

Marc,

If you dig stuff about frontier encounters with wild indians, read COMMANCHE MOON by Larry McMurtry. Exciting, candid, and realistic in a way that westerns have never been. The way he can take you into the head of a character without moralism is eerie and beautiful. Be warned that there's some pretty intense torture stuff in there.

K.

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:50 pm: Edit

Goddamn! That Borg Queen has some nice looking latex covered titties.

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:45 pm: Edit

Doppleganger! DOPPLEGANGER!!!
I'm going SHOPPING with my DOPPLEGANGER!!!

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:41 pm: Edit

Maybe he's been taken over by a Doppleganger...

By Verawench on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Marc, what in the world is your problem? Nobody has flung insults at you yet you're hostile as hell.

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:27 pm: Edit

'Scuse me?!? I'll be in Vegas on business in June, and was going to suggest we continue these verbal fisticuffs in person, but now I'm not so sure. I require a certain level of intimacy before biting comes into the picture...

-M

By Marc on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:26 pm: Edit

I'm meeting an occasional member of this forum for dinner, ariadnae. Talk about goth.

Everybody's passing thru Vegas these days. Thank god. I need the company.

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:17 pm: Edit

I do a pretty good job of killing threads. I don't understand why.

I enjoyed the orgami analogy also.

I would like to close this thread by saying you've all been wonderful guests and great sports. Thank you all for coming and join us again in the next installment of "Hate That Thread".

By Marc on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Its more than your head I'm going to bite, you little slut.

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:15 pm: Edit

Same reason I thought the "Texas" discussion should call it a night - getting tired & boring. But you bit my head off for saying so.

By Marc on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 06:08 pm: Edit

I'm not contradicting myself.

If any thread should come to and end, it should be the banal heiku thread. Not because I don't think it has a right to exist, because it does, but because ITS FUCKING BORING.

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:58 pm: Edit

"It's irony origami. Folded nuances, so intricate when you pull on the ass the wings flap.

Rabbit - I fell right outta my chair laughing. You're approaching "Head" status in the quick lyrical wit catagory. My feelings exactly - it's amusing how easy contradiction can be contorted into "irony".

-M

By Marc on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:57 pm: Edit

yo rabbit (driller killer),

no more ironic than "amateur trepanist".

By Mr_Rabbit on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:54 pm: Edit

You know, I can't even tell who's kidding who right now.

Seriously. I know Anatomist and Verawench are joking, but Marc? Are you doing some double-jointed yoga sarcasm shit or not?

If you are, I gotta say, wow. It's irony origami. Folded nuances, so intricate when you pull on the ass the wings flap.

By Verawench on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:53 pm: Edit

"But, I've noticed alot of goth girls are socially retarded."

::winces::

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:43 pm: Edit

No one ever talks about MAC behavior.

By Marc on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:41 pm: Edit

I was being ironic. You're familiar with the word, right? Vera suggests in her "amen" that this thread should come to an end. All the while, she's prolonging a painfully banal thread devoted to some cybernerd she's fawning over. Its highschool level horseshit. But, I've noticed alot of goth girls are socially retarded.

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Sheesh Marc, I was merely suggesting that the Texas thing had been hog-tied, tared & feathered, and otherwise lasso'd into the ground, and that a new tangent might be refreshing. Though I may not always agrees with them, Anatomist DOES make good points - he often does, hence my calling him reasonably bright.

I, too, (usually) find drama entertaining...but your bit of melodrama reply to me is another story. ME being self-righteous? Didn't you say just moments ago in Vera's 'Heiko' thread that "this is a thread that should be jettisoned. Pathetic." ??? If I could paraphrase your own post below - "This is typical PC behaviour. You don't agree with something, get rid of it...If you don't dig the thread, get the fuck out!

Am I wrong, or did the Pot just call the Kettle black??

-M

By Marc on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 05:07 pm: Edit

Why the fuck should there be a new topic? If you don't dig the thread, get the fuck out! This is typical PC behaviour. You don't agree with something, get rid of it. I happen to find this thread fascinating. Anatomist is making a few good points. Yeah, he's being dramatic, but I find it entertaining. Take your self-righteous
attitudes and shove em up your
tight little bungholes.

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Morrigan,

I see... you're a communist, aren't you?

K.

By Verawench on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Amen!

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 04:15 pm: Edit

OK, this "Don't Mess With Texas" crap is getting really old. It's pretty insipid coming from a chimp like George Dubya, and even more so coming from a reasonably-bright (though apparently a wee bit too STAR-SPANGLED in the head) forum member.

New topic?

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 03:57 pm: Edit

Actually yes. Being a sissified euro-fop, I wouldn't expect you to know anything about frontier battle tactics. At the time of the Revolutionary War, white settlers were vastly outnumbered and completely surrounded by indians -- hence the need for peace treaties. By the time the settlers started encroaching on the great plains and the southwest, we may have had numbers and technology on our side, but we were still too wussily european to mount a credible challenge to some of the fiercest fighters the world has ever seen: Commanche, Apache, and various plains tribes we called the Sioux. Firearms shmirearms, a hundred Commanche with good horses, spears and bows could probably terrorize and cow half of England into pathetic submission starting today. One experienced Lakota or Apache warrior was easily worth a dozen blue coats toting as many guns as they could carry. Why? Cunning, attunement to the rythms of the land, and just plain being hardcore motherfuckers. Back then, Europeans were still lining up like brightly-colored dominoes and charging headlong at one another like grade-B dumbasses. An indian, on the other hand, might crawl a half-mile on his belly beneath the scrub, wait several hours, then silently pierce your throat with an arrow while you were taking a dump. Or, maybe just let you chase him out into a barren area, steal your horses while you were asleep, then wait for you to nearly die of thirst so he could walk right up to you and off you at his leisure. They were about 100 years ahead of Europeans in small-scale battle tactics, and were not easy to kill by any measure. In the final days of the pursuit of Geronimo, over 8000 soldiers and 500 scouts failed to capture the man and less than two dozen of his warriors. In the end, they had to trick him into surrendering, as he could not be captured....

K.

By Heiko on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 03:28 pm: Edit

"Killing the indians, taking their land, and co-opting key elements of their culture was damn hard"

So it was a damn hard fight for the settlers who absolutely outnumbered the indians, an enemy who was fighting half-naked and without firearms?
Oh, I forgot, they used the "shoot first and figure out 'damn I shot my wife and not the indian' later" tactics.

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Ahem! I said STAR-SPANGLED butt-kicking motherfuckers! STAR-SPANGLED!!!!!

By Pataphysician on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 03:20 pm: Edit

A THANKSGIVING PRAYER
by William S. Burroughs

For John Dillinger, in the hope that he is still alive.
(Thanksgiving Day, November 28th 1986)

Thanks for the wild turkey and the passenger pigeons, destined to be shit out through wholesome American guts.
Thanks for a continent to despoil and poison.
Thanks for Indians to provide a modicum of challenge and danger.
Thanks for vast herds of bison to kill and skin, leaving the carcasses to rot.
Thanks for bounties on wolves and coyotes.
Thanks for the American Dream - to vulgarize and falsify until the bare lies shine through.
Thanks for the K.K.K.
For nigger-killing lawmen feeling their notches.
For decent, church-going women with their mean, pinched, bitter evil faces.
Thanks for Kill A Queer For Christ stickers.
Thanks for laboratory AIDS.
Thanks for prohibition, and the war against drugs.
Thanks for a country where nobody is allowed to mind his own business.
Thanks for a nation of finks.
Yes, thanks for all the memories - "Alright, let's see your arms."
You always were a headache and you always were a bore.
Thanks, for the last and greatest betrayal, of the last and greatest of human dreams.

By Zack on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Ahem, Lone Star (light)...the 'national' beer of Texas.

By Verawench on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Shouldn't you be out somewhere drinking bud light and shooting at stray cats?

By Verawench on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 02:33 pm: Edit

"bunch of butt-kicking motherfuckers"

From what I hear, this is to be taken VERY literally.

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Wenchie,

I've got to hand it to you. For a self-proclaimed member of a conformist fashion scene (goth), it takes something resembling balls to call me affected. (I wonder if Heiko will get an unpleasant surprise when the undergarments first come off) I own no jewelry or decorative clothing items, I haven't purchased a haircut or a single hair care product in over a decade. I sculpt what I like and patronize what cultural materials I like without the slightest calculation about who might think what. I am ruinously, compulsively honest -- I can't even pretend to be nice to people I don't like even when it's to my advantage. Take me or leave me. I assume you'll be joining most people in the latter.

To the charges of being mired in affectation and whining about Texas, I'll have to add "unable to recognize the obviously facetious".

K.

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 02:17 pm: Edit

LH,

Actually, I dispute that the American spirit comes from Europe -- it comes from mixture of European and Native American cultures, with a large dash of African added in later. It also comes from the fact that in order to get what we wanted, or keep what we had, we've always had to be ready to shoot first and figure out what happened later. The Native part is the key. It's where our practicality and ass-kicking stoicism come from. Killing the indians, taking their land, and co-opting key elements of their culture was damn hard, but we won, and now we're a bunch of star-spangled butt-kicking motherfuckers because of it. As far as the rest of the world goes, we now own it... what's to know? Oh, and Ireland -- isn't that somewhere in north eastern Texas?

K.

By Verawench on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Ah, damn! See what I missed out on? Seems like the best part is over.

Oh well, you'll find 2 of my cents on the "Heiko is beautiful" thread.

Admit it, Kevin, you're just jealous cause he's prettier than you.

By Lordhobgoblin on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Heiko,

Consider the hatchet well and truly buried. A case of misunderstanding on both our parts. there's enough pointless spite in the world without us both adding to it.

Hobgoblin

By Lordhobgoblin on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Anatomist,

Actually your ancestors did not "kick my ancestors asses" as I am Irish and of Irish ancestry. Irish and British are not synonymous (but then I wouldn't expect you to have much knowledge of the world outside the USA).

Anyway you should be grateful for Europeans, we founded your country. (Where do you think the pilgrim fathers originated from, the American Mid-West?). Your ancestors were in fact mainly Europeans (but then I don't suppose you're that good at thinking about history beyond a few hundred years).

In the end we're all blends and personally I think that petty nationalism is a load of sectarian bollocks, but then we're all entitled to our opinions.

Hobgoblin

By Heiko on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 08:34 pm: Edit

We do need to end the selling of crack to innocent Texans!

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Hitler was a puny, unfit pantywaste. Ol' Sam Houston used bigger men than him for toothpicks. Of course, if it wasn't for us, I reckon he'd still be emperor of Europe... all the men would probably be required to wear pantyhose. Of course, a dozen Texas Rangers with good mounts and reliable weapons could've done the job quicker then all them rule-followin' bureaucrat soldiers...

K.

By Heiko on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Anatomist,

come on! If I had intended to fight Britain, I would not have apologized. I apologized because Hobgoblins answer to my post showed that I had apparently insulted him while I was just trying to...I don't know what I was trying to do, but definitely not insulting him.
I hate to insult people, especially when I don't intend to do so. I still have the dream that this world could be a nice place if everybody behaved nice. Then, suddenly, I realize that I have been starting a fight without intending to do so. This makes me angry about myself. That's why I have no problem to openly humiliate myself in an apology.
Maybe it makes me a decadent wimp if I try to avoid fighting, but why should I go on attacking Hobgoblin for no reason? I did not have a reason in the first place, would it be right to fight back now? Virtually fighting over NOTHING?

I can tell you who was the last 'non-girlie' polititian in Germany: Hitler. Do you want him back?

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 07:28 pm: Edit

That "our gathering, your gathering" talk gave me a hankering to rib LH about living in the pathetic remnants of a ruined empire, and how glad I am that my ancestors kicked his ancestors asses and started a country that fucking rules over all those limp-noodle, malnourished, surly islanders... Then Heiko comes along with this piteous apology and demonstrates that when it comes to being a bunch of blubbering milksops, the Brits now have some competition... although apparently not stiff competition, if you get my drift. Anytime you European girly-men are ripe for a good old fashioned ass-whuppin', come on over to the good ol' US of A, and we'll show you how it's done.

K.

By Heiko on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Hobgoblin,

ok, my remark was too sloppy. I didn't think much about it when I wrote it. It was an unqualified comment - I wasn't there, so I have no right to assume it was 'lame', I'm sorry.
I regret that you felt insulted, I didn't think you would take it so seriously - as I said before, I didn't think at all, I've written a smartass-remark.
I did not consider the meeting was just over so nobody had the time to post any reviews.

I just tried to give crappy explanations for what I was thinking when I wrote this post, but the more I was thinking about it, the less I have an explanation. I just did not think at all before speaking, that's never a good thing to do and I apologize.
I have a questionable talent for saying the wrong stuff when I want to be extra-spontaneous. It went wrong more than once, this is just another good example.

So, sorry again, you were involved very much into this meeting, it was your idea, you organized it, and it worked out. Sometimes I lack the respect I like to propagate - not because of bad will but because my ego circles around itself and I need someone to give me a kick in the butt. You did so and I accept it because I never intended to fight with you.

By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 05:35 pm: Edit

I was hoping to hear that the Absinthes they've created could solve world hunger and cure cancer... Well, maybe next time.

By Marc on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 12:06 pm: Edit

fair enough.

By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 11:51 am: Edit

Marc,

I'm sorry Marc but Heiko doesn't have a point, his post is insulting in tone. Like others he was more than welcome to attend (although he never made any reference to even considering attending) and the only time he even mentioned our meeting is to rubbish it after it takes place

"Compared to the reaction of the people after the NOLA meeting, it seems that this meeting must have been pretty lame. One of five participants posts and the only thing he says is "the Absinthe was great". I expected some more reaction of five people who had the chance to try some of the Jade everybody here is waiting for."

I have been fortunate to sample several Jade Absinthes and I have no problem with people asking for my opinion, and also (as you do) to respect my rights to say as much or as little as I please.

I take offence when people insult me and the other 4 people present (my wife, Ted, a friend of Ted, and a business aquaintance of Ted) by slagging off our small meeting. Expecting the 5 of us to post extensive reviews on the forum (despite only Ted and myself being the only regular posters). If Heiko wasn't insulting Ted or the others (whom he has never had any dialogue with) then I only assume that his attack was amied at me.

And I object to him having no regard for the fact that our lunch with Ted was on Sunday afternoon, and my post was made late Sunday afternoon when I was still feeling the effects of half a dozen glasses of Absinthe.

Lots of people travelled (as you point out) across the United States (a damn site further than Germany is from London) to sample Jade absinthe. Western Europe is really very small, (you could probably just about fit the whole of Western Europe into the state of Texas) so for someone to whinge that Germany is a long way from England is talking bollocks. If Heiko was so desperate to sample it then he could have arrived in London in about 6 or 7 hours (I've driven to Koln from London in 6 hours). It seems he is one of these people that unless something is conveniently arranged for him (by someone else of course) on his doorstep it is just too much trouble. But then according to Heiko, only 'let's eat dinner in Paris today yuppies' would travel more than a few miles to taste something that they say they are desperate to taste. Maybe he couldn't come because his parents had grounded him for the weekend and he's pissed off about that?

And to compare our gathering the the one that was held in New Orleans is nonsense. This was a low key lunch, not a major event. They were two different things and this is not a competition to say "our gathering was better than yours", anyway Heiko knows nothing of either gathering.

I may at some time write a review of the Jade Absinthes I sampled, but I have not got a very educated pallete or knowledge of what herbs I tasted in the drinks. I am not an absinthe-buff, I just like drinking the stuff. Did everyone who attended the New Orleans gathering post a review? Was everyone who attended the New Orleans gathering expected to post a review? Were any of these who attended the New Orleans gathering attacked for not posting a review within 12 hours of sampling Jade absinthes?

All I will say now is that Absinthe Edouard was superb, Absinthe Nouvelle-Orleans was almost as good (it went down more smoothly than Absinthe Edouard but Edouard definitely has IMO the better taste). I must say though that despite it being a quality absinthe, I was not overly keen on the clear Swiss-type product (the one Ted had in the Listerne bottle) it was a bit too sharp tasting for me. Neither Absinthe Edouard nor Absinthe Nouvelle-Orleans need any sugar added (and I usually like 2 lumps of sugar). I am no expert and that is the sum total of my review, if it's not detailed enough for some then that's their problem.

Heiko should either grow up and develop some manners or he will end up going through life with black-eyes (unless of course he only insults people from the safety of his computer).

Hobgoblin

By Absinthedrinker on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 02:28 am: Edit

I was unable to make the meeting on Sunday as I was away for the weekend, but I had a meal and tasting with Ted and friends on Thursday evening. I was lucky enough to get a taste of the Berger 68 'absinthe which I understand will only be available in limited quantities due to shortage of key herbs. I tasted it against the E Pernod which I had already sampled and it replaced the former as my favourite. Like all of Ted and Don's absinthe it does not need sugar as the pleasant bitterness only serves to stimulate the taste buds (think of how bitter hops work in beer). I tried it with sugar as sometimes I like a sweeter drink and was surprised that one cube did not produce any sensation of sweetness, rather it served to accentuate the middle palate of the absinthe. I would compare this to the way in which a German spatlese or even auslese wine does not taste particularly sweet if it has balancing acidity. In this case the balance was provided by the artemisia.

My only regret of the evening was that I did not have a camera as a picture of Ted pouring absinthe from a Listerene bottle would have been priceless.

By Marc on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 11:18 pm: Edit

hobgoblin,

heiko has made a good point. As one of the few people to try Jade, you are in a rare position to review it. In a forum devoted to absinthe to not do so seems bizarre. But, you are certainly entitled to your privacy.

By Heiko on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Hobgoblin,
you organized the whole thing, you posted all the time (and how much you post is none of my business, right).
You care about the forum and you cared about the meeting - that's why you're the only one who answered now.
I was of course not adressing Ted at all, he shares much of his knowledge here.

It's pretty obvious I don't cross half of Europe to go to a "low key enjoyable lunch" in London. I'm no "let's eat dinner in Paris today"-Yuppie. If I was, I had been there. And because I'm not, I have to save my money for Jade.

Of course nobody HAS to share anything here - but this was a dinner with Ted who brought samples of all his not yet released specialties: This is one of the major things the forum is about.

Do you want to imply the reactions of the people attending the NOLA meeting were "in a gushing, effervescent, over-exaggerated manner"?

Now I'm going to fuck off, that's what scum like me has to do. How could I expect anybody was going to say a word about absinthe on this forum? Sorry.

By Marc on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 04:32 pm: Edit

lordhobgoblin at least had the energy and thoughtfulness to organize a London gathering. It ain't his fault that the British members of this forum failed to show up. Bunch of wankers!
Somehow people from all across the USA managed to make it to New Orleans for the tasting. Folks travelled from 1000s of miles away to attend the event. My absinthe tasting in New York City attracted 80 people.It looks to me like the Brits are a bunch of lazy sods.

I have found that alot of internet talk is just that, talk. When it comes to walking the walk,
people just prefer to hide behind their little computer screens.

By Marc on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 04:32 pm: Edit

lordhobgoblin at least had the energy and thoughtfulness to organize a London gathering. It ain't his fault that the British members of this forum failed to show up. Bunch of wankers!
Somehow people from all across the USA managed to make it to New Orleans for the tasting. Folks travelled from 1000s of miles away to attend the event. My absinthe tasting in New York City attracted 80 people.It looks to me like the Brits are a bunch of lazy sods.

I have found that alot of internet talk is just that, talk. When it comes to walking the walk,
people just prefer to hide behing their little computer screens.

By Germanandy on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 04:17 pm: Edit

it's me again ;-)
i forget to say, from the 28. of june to the 03. of july is the heinerfest in darmstadt, the biggest fest in south hessen (and much better than the stupid octoberfest).
to anyone who is interested, it's the "best fest"!!!
you are all invited to come to darmstadt and go with me to the heinerfest (maybe this belongs only to the german forumities, but everyone is welcome).

andy

By Germanandy on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 03:38 pm: Edit

for those who are interested, here are some nice links about darmstadt (some of the sites are in english language):
http://www.deliah.com/haupt/privat/darmstadt/darmstadt.htm
http://w1.xrefer.com/entry/438809
http://www.eurotravelling.net/germany/darmstadt/darmstadt_culture.htm
http://www.igd.fhg.de/archive/1995_www95/city-info/Documents/Sight.html
http://www.deutsche-heimat.de/darmstadt/stadtrundgang.html

By Germanandy on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 02:23 pm: Edit

@hob- Darmstadt is in Hessen, close to Frankfurt/Main (about 30 Km).
there are more nice buildings to see in darmstadt, it's great for sightseeing.
the cemetery gate of darmstadts waldfriedhof is the most impressing building i've ever seen (also art nouveau or jugendstil (that's german)).

andy

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Germanandy,

Whereabouts in Germany is Darmstadt.

Hobgoblin

By Chrysippvs on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Any Lovecraft fan or Evil Dead Buff check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1430432470

Now that is cool...

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 02:00 pm: Edit

Heiko,

What the hell else did you expect me to say, the absinthe WAS great and the Absinthe Edouard was superb (you don't get much better than superb in my book).

As for comments from everyone else, as my earlier post stated only 2 of the 5 present were regular posters to the forum and one of these 2 was Ted (and you don't expect him to be so vain as to crudely boast about his own product).

It was a low key enjoyable lunch (which occurred yesterday) with great absinthe, what else did you expect? Screw you for having the bloody rude arrogance to describe our small meeting as lame, it was not, mind your own bloody business (I haven't seen you arranging anything or attempting to pop over to London to meet Ted, 5 hours drive plus a 45 mins channel tunnel crossing would get you to London). This was not a big do arranged months in advance like the one in New Orleans and was never intended as anything other than an opportunity for a few people to informally meet Ted, and sample his products if he chose to offer us a sip.

Heiko, I have no need to justify my comments to you or anyone else and since you weren't present our small pleasant get-together is none of your business anyway. I enjoyed myself very much and it is my business who I express my feelings to and how I express them. I don't see why I should be duty bound to report to the like of you in a gushing, effervescent, over-exaggerated manner.

Now kindly fuck off and get a life.

Hobgoblin

(PS Ted if you've touched down in New Orleans yet Ted, then thanks very much, half dozen glasses of your superb absinthe and great company makes for a very pleasurable lunch.)

By Heiko on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 01:57 pm: Edit

I guess asking a French bar-owner if you could meet at his place and bring your own absinthe will be pretty pointless...

By Germanandy on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 01:47 pm: Edit

you are right, we haven't got a notre dame or a mont-matre but darmstadt was one of the most famous art nouveau citys in the begining of the last century!
have a look at our beautyfull wedding tower.
wedding tower
imagine yourself sitting here on a nice summerday and have glas of your favorit drink, it is good, isn't it?
and the best is, it's absolutely legal ;-)

By Heiko on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 01:08 pm: Edit

Compared to the reaction of the people after the NOLA meeting, it seems that this meeting must have been pretty lame.
One of five participants posts and the only thing he says is "the Absinthe was great".

I expected some more reaction of five people who had the chance to try some of the Jade everybody here is waiting for.

By Petermarc on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 12:22 pm: Edit

there is an open invitation...

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 11:31 am: Edit

And there is no Mont-Martre or Notre Dame Cathedral (at least not that one) in Germany.

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 10:46 am: Edit

Ekmass,

The UK gathering consisted of a mere 5 people, only two of whom post regularly on the forum. The absinthe was great though.

Personally speaking Paris would suit me much better that Germany. It also has the advantage of cheap absinthe glasses and spoons without searching too hard.

Hobgoblin

By Petermarc on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 06:17 am: Edit

actually, andy, that's not a bad idea...then we don't have to concern ourselves with pesky little details like if it's legal or not...;-)

By Germanandy on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 06:07 am: Edit

yep, we can make it in darmstadt, so i don't have to travel so far ;-)

By Petermarc on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 05:39 am: Edit

uh, 'pull off'? i think we can do better than that, eric...

By Ekmass on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 04:53 am: Edit

I am glad to hear that somone enjoyed the UK absinthe meet. I still think we can pull off a Paris one later in the year.

By Artemis on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 03:49 pm: Edit

"If you see this thing close up you soon realize there is nothing cute and gargoyle about it...."

I can see that from the picture, but I don't think there's anything cute about gargoyles, either. I got mine on Blue Light Special at Kmart. Wrassled that old lady in the photo Head posted for one of them. That's how I got my bum wrist; had to have an absinthe spoon special made so I could use it with my toes.

By Melinelly on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 02:36 pm: Edit

http://www.cthulhu.org

he's got my vote! ;)

By Chrysippvs on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 12:03 pm: Edit

Marc,

Nah this is a brass casting with some type of green rust of possible artifical aged agent on it. It is a limited run by a guy I know of around 250 statues. It is like 8" tall, they go on ebay for around 100 bucks, I got this one for like 50. Nah I don't use bookends, I have several cases and what doesn't fit I stack in the floor...

If you see this thing close up you soon realize there is nothing cute and gargoyle about it....

By Head_Prosthesis on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 11:58 am: Edit

Cthullu Dance

By Marc on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 11:55 am: Edit

justin,

did you get that gargoyle bookend at Barnes and Noble?

By Artemis on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 11:49 am: Edit

Technically, all of Ted's absinthes are "Swiss" absinthes. But they're not all absinthe "blanche" (clear), what most people probably think of as "La Bleue" nowadays. Some people did taste a blanche from Ted in New Orleans, although it wasn't part of the larger tasting. Personally, I think the Nouvelle is a considerable improvement on the Edouard. The blanche is formidable - maybe Ted could be talked into releasing that one, too.

Justin, that statuette is really fine. I like it better than my gargoyles, which is saying a lot.

By Chrysippvs on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 11:37 am: Edit

yeah I have seen those. This statue is great...it is almost 9" tall and is exactly like what HPL described in the Call of Cthulhu...matter of fact here is the original drawing from HPL

hpl

By Head_Prosthesis on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 11:31 am: Edit

Have you seen the plush version of Cthullu. It's so cute.

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 11:28 am: Edit

Just got back from sampling Ted's E.Pernod, Nouveau Orleans, and the 'Suisse' absinthe(not tasted at the NOLA gathering ;-) ).

All were great but in my opinion the E.Pernod absinthe was truly superb.

Hobgoblin

By Chrysippvs on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 11:19 am: Edit

Hey Don,

Thought you would like this...picked it up a few days ago.

scary

This should sit well among the bottles...

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 09:53 am: Edit

My best wishes for your grandmother were sincere, Kelvinator. I have no argument with her, as I have no way of knowing whether the Evil Genes came from her side of the family, or some other source.

Lighten up.

I am kidding.

Marc was too.

By Timk on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 05:36 am: Edit

Oh my god, I am a student, wake up people, many other well respected members of the forum are either students, or under the legal drinking age in America. Need I name Names? I do not see why i should justify my reasons for not attending any further than I already have, so I shall Not. Suffice it to say that I would have attended if not for the unfortunate circumstances outlined. If, at a later date, any of you U.K. absinthe drinkers or foreign travellers pass this way, I am sure we can get a better turnout next time.

Tim

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 04:52 am: Edit

Marc, looks like you called it, he's a student.

So much for the wrath of the Kelvinator.

(I hope Gran feels better soon, Tim)

By Timk on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 04:26 am: Edit

Thanks Marc - actually, my grandmother has been suffering fainting 'fits' for some time now, only it appears she has taken a turn for the worst, i live 5 minutes away, am educated 10 minutes away, and work 15 minutes away, and as she is in hospital at the moment, i did not want to go any further.

Marc, you may Fuck like an ape, but please, try not to act like one.

By Marc on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 12:49 am: Edit

"my grandmother is ill" is the oldest excuse in the book. timk is a 15 year old kid with an oversized imagination and a powerful computer.

By Marc on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 12:46 am: Edit

lordhobgoblin,

it looks like the London branch of the absinthe
forum is a bunch of wimps. At least you're keeping the fire burning. Good for you.

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 12:46 am: Edit

Timk,

Sorry about your Grandmother, hope she improves. The last post was a touch insensitive.

Hobgoblin

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 12:42 am: Edit

So in about 4 hours time it will be just Ted and myself meeting for lunch.

By Timk on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 01:07 pm: Edit

btw Lord H - if you take your hollow cane - you can secrete some small samples for those of us who, unfortunately cannot make it.

Tim

By Timk on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 01:05 pm: Edit

Oh dear, i feel bad now, unfortunately I cannot make it - ny grandmother has taken ill. Sorry guys, have a really nice time - Ted, I hope that I have some other opportunity to meet you.

Tim

By Ekmass on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 01:45 am: Edit

It does not look like I can make it. Instead of sipping absinthe London I will be trying to keep my wife's friends from sipping it here. I wish you all the best.
EM

By Lordhobgoblin on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 11:06 pm: Edit

Ekmass,

Are you aware of the change of venue?

By Binky on Wednesday, May 16, 2001 - 08:42 am: Edit

Still don't know I'm afraid. I'll either turn up or not, as I have "stuff" going on that weekend. Sorry to be so vague!

By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, May 15, 2001 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Ekmass,

Are you aware of the change of venue?

Hobgoblin

By Timk on Monday, May 14, 2001 - 01:47 pm: Edit

I shall be there, hidden agenda and all

By Germanandy on Monday, May 14, 2001 - 01:32 pm: Edit

sorry, i must cancel.
my wife, my daughter and my dogs come back from vacation 2 days earlier than i expected.
and i hope you all understand that it's more important to see them than make a trip to london, although it could have been a nice meeting, but i'm sure it will be ;-)
wish you all the best and much fun at the london gathering!!!

andy

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, May 14, 2001 - 10:32 am: Edit

Timk, Ekmass, Germanandy?, Binky?.

Are any of you still going to be attending.

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Meet at 1pm in the afternoon.

By Tabreaux on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 10:37 am: Edit

The change is noted, and I will be there. You may want to confirm a time to meet.

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 08:00 am: Edit

Urgent : To all those attending the UK meeting on 20th May.

The venue has changed for our meeting on Sunday 20th May. The original venue, while being ok with beer and wine being taken in and consumed they are not happy with anything stronger.

However I popped up to Hampstead and had a chat with the manager/owner of a small family run Turkish restaurant in Hampstead, explained that a few of us would like to meet and taste a liquer that a friend's company was considering producing. He is happy for us to do this in his licensed retaurant so long as we all buy a meal (I guess he might probably appreciate a small taste also). It's a quiet, clean family run Turkish restaurant with a friendly easy-going manager. It seems a better spot than the original venue and is probably even within walking distance of your hotel Ted (if you're feeling fit).

The new venue is:

Zara Cafe and Restaurant
11 South End Road
Hampstead
London NW3 2PT
Tel no : 020 7794 5498

We meet at 1pm in the afternoon on Sunday 20th, inside the restaurant. It's small enough so we won't miss each other.

The nearest underground station is Belsize Park (on the Northern Line), or Hampstead Heath British Rail Station (which is even closer). The underground however is the easier option unless you're used to London's local British Rail network. If you're coming by car (as I probably will) be warned, parking in Hampstead is hell.

The restaurant is close to the junction between Pond Street and South End Road. If you're arriving from the Pond Street side and walking up South End Road it's just on the left hand side along a parade of small shops, cafe-type restaurants.

Anyway, would all those so far wanting to attend confirm on this thread that they have read and understood the new arrangements. I would hate to think that someone like Ekmass would come all the way from France or Ted from the USA and end up waiting for us all at the wrong venue.

Look forward to seeing you all then.

Hobgoblin

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