|By Wolfgang on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 09:03 pm: Edit|
Thank you everybody for your support. If you see it, tell me. If I find it myself, I will let you know so you don't look for nothing.
Heartland Record's was my first attempt to get it with no succes. Today I tried the gemm web site and found something but the sellers don't have it in stock so I'm waiting for an answer from them.
|By Bjacques on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 04:54 pm: Edit|
One of my favorite obscure bands is commanding ridiculous prices. There's a single I saw at a record fair (at a more reasonable price) but didn't get because I thought I already had it. I will correct that oversight IMMEDIATELY.
The Amsterdam goth scene is pretty relaxed. There's no fixed hangout except maybe Legendz, a pub like Camden Town's Devonshire Arms, but not nearly as big. Plenty of rotating venues, though.
When I lived in DC ('96-'98) I was between goth manias, so I didn't get to deeply into the scene there. I also missed an opportunity to see Bauhaus's reunion show. I went occasionally to Bound, which was a goth/fetish/industrial event held Friday nights in a gay club by Dupont Circle. It still is, if I recall. It was fairly open. The dress code was "no sportswear," unless you wanted to pay double or triple to get in.
I'm pretty sure I saw a Disjecta Membra CD in one of the shops here, or maybe a record fair last week. Now of course it will have disappeared when I go looking for it...If I find it I'll let you know.
|By Frater_Carfax on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 04:00 pm: Edit|
if Heartland Record's website is up and running enough to order from, they would be the place to get it from- they are pretty much national icons for Australian goth mail order and source all the major goth labels and local Australia/NZ material.
Another site worth checking out is The Isolation Tank- who stock almost everything (but not Disjecta Membra it seems...)
|By Anatomist1 on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 10:21 am: Edit|
Try http://gemm.com/ for out of print and rare music recordings. It catalogs the inventories of many used stores... probably the best single resource I've seen.
http://www.bookfinder.com/ does the same thing for books. You can find nearly anything there.
|By Melinelly on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 09:40 am: Edit|
actually, that would be their old record label. seems their new label will be reissuing their first album (which is the only one listed as oop on their website, is that the one you wanted?) and they are going to be recording and touring. links to all this through their website.
|By Melinelly on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 09:28 am: Edit|
wolfie, i just did a search and here are a couple sites you might find useful:
the band's official website:
their record label's website (under construction but they have a to-be-link for an online store, so email them about ordering a cd):
|By Melinelly on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 09:19 am: Edit|
one way i've found effective for finding out of print never heard of cds is to do a google search and check out the site returns that look like stores. do a little searching and you might find something.
i recently found an oop cd by Elbereth: an obscure celtic black/gloom metal band with bagpipes and wafty female vocals put out in '95 on an obscure german label.
note: a lot of the little "stores" you'll find don't update their websites much so don't place any orders until you've confirmed by email they have what you want in stock.
|By Wolfgang on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 08:51 am: Edit|
Hummm... Question for Midas & Frater... I was looking for a CD by Disjecta Membra (a New Zealand goth band that nobody know around here but maybe you eared about them in your area). I can't find it around here and my online sources told me it's out of print... email me if you can help... Tks.
|By Wolfgang on Monday, June 04, 2001 - 08:41 am: Edit|
Stop that, you will make me cry.
|By Frater_Carfax on Sunday, June 03, 2001 - 03:53 pm: Edit|
"I have noticed here that many old Goth (around 30 like me) don't worry that much about dressing. We sit in the corner like old moldy gargoyles and we entertain our eyes, looking at the extravagant newcomers."
There are T shirts you can get that have "Sad Old Goth" proudly emblazoned on the front...
Something those who remember the 80's the first time around can wear with pride!
|By _Blackjack on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 01:28 pm: Edit|
Such attempts at definition are worse than pointless, they are reductionist- they destroy possiblities rather than create them.
|By Mr_Rabbit on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 11:05 am: Edit|
BlackJack, that lack of divisions is pretty much what it's been like in teeny tiny Harrisburg (and from the bits I have seen, Baltimore too) for as long as I can remember.
I like it that way. I never thought to until I learned that it isn't that way everywhere.
Round here, the gamers, goths, hippies, punks, SCA-Ren Faire people and comic book geeks- trying to seperate them is impossible. Nobody ever cared. The idea that you could go out to a club and be subject to attacks by the Fashion Police is sad and pathetic.
I have never met anyone that could be squarely classed in only one of the subcultures I mentioned.
Such attempts at definition are worse than pointless, they are reductionist- they destroy possiblities rather than create them. There are, I hear tell, people out there that won't hang around with somebody they consider a hippie, or someone they feel just isn't punk or goth or hippie or whateverthehell enough. And by that, they avoid meeting, no doubt, people very worth knowing.
|By Midas on Saturday, June 02, 2001 - 12:26 am: Edit|
For my fellow chromatically challenged forum members, if you are ever in Sydney, this is where you are likely to find Frater Carfax and I. It's Sydneys longest running Goth/Industrial club, and is run by good friends of ours:
|By _Blackjack on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 02:53 pm: Edit|
DC has had a very intersting scene. After the harDCore thing started to die down in the mid 80's, the size of the varous counter-cultural communities dwindled, and, considering the basically uptight nature of the city, they began to band together in order to survive. As such, in the late 80's and most of the '90's, you saw a lot more "cross-pollenization" and interaction between "goths" and "punks" and people who were into Industrial, not to mention other groups, like the sci-fi con geeks and the SCA-types. It really became a remarkably heterogenous group, and it was pretty much impossible to draw borders between any groups. For this reason, the "fashion" aspects get kinda lost. (To this day, the general wisdom is that DC's is the most "casual" goth "scene" in the country.) "We were all Freaks. It wasn't about how you dressed; it was that you were "not like others."
This has fizzled out a bit, for various reasons. A string of unfortunate circumstances reduced our connection with the sci-fi conventions, which had been our primary recruiting grounds for kids too young for clubs. As I and my peers got older, the younger people coming onto the "scene" were not quite as much a part of the community. There still aren't the same kinds of major divisions that you see in cities with larger "scenes," but there isn't the kind of overall cohesion there used to be.
Or maybe I'm just old and bitter. These kids today...
|By Verawench on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 01:38 pm: Edit|
"Usually, the old ones are easier to approach and are less self centered and pretentious"
Yep the sweetest gothlings I've met are over the age of 25. Some seem to retain obsession with a particular "look" ad infinitum... pretty sad.
My friends and I still dress up.. not as excessively as we used to and mostly to ooh and ahh and delight in each other rather than to compete with a mass of strangers who've spilled way too much dough on something excessive. What's the point when you can't take any joy in the peagentry?
I have endless respect for people like Voltaire (www.voltaire.net) who is the Renaissance man of goth, or Sam Rosenthal (nevermind his pissy attitude) who's devoted almost 2 decades of his life to Projekt Records. Or DJ Scary Lady Sarah who entertains the mindless masses of Chicago every weekend and manages to remain a lovely, friendly woman.
|By Wolfgang on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 01:19 pm: Edit|
Then you're a lucky fellow. Being accepted in a Goth circle, especially in high school, is usually not a good sign of mental equilibrium ;-)
|By Wolfgang on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 01:09 pm: Edit|
When the way we express ourselves become a fashion with codes and rules, it's time to find another way of expression.
I have noticed here that many old Goth (around 30 like me) don't worry that much about dressing. We sit in the corner like old moldy gargoyles and we entertain our eyes, looking at the extravagant newcomers. I just hope they don't think we are judging them because that's not the case.
Usually, the old ones are easier to approach and are less self centered and pretentious because they have nothing to prove and they had the time to understand this whole thing is about culture, not about building some kind of gossiping aristocracy.
Wolf...rant rant rant...
|By Mattb on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 12:48 pm: Edit|
Beer - a simple buzz. Different depending on my mood but generally the same me without the inhibitions.
Tequila - I really like the stuff (top shelf). Makes me a little wild, and ready to go get myself into trouble.
Gin - maybe a little more introspective, seems to go well with conversation. I love to have friends over for Bombay Martinis and just chat.
Whiskey - Not grumpy, but maybe not as jovial as other drinks. Scotch makes me relaxed.
Wine - also good for conversation. Often the drink of choice with guests.
Schnapps - In quantity makes me projectile vomit, which although it might "liven things up" generally isn't conducive to good conversation.
Bundaberg Rum - Discovered this drink on my last trip to Oz. Bumped into a couple of guys who had just come from a ski trip in my home town in Colorado. They invited us up to their room for libations on their Hotel balcony overlooking North Cottosloe (sp?), and I have to agree it can make one a bit boisterous. Or maybe it was the enormous bag of mul they soon produced... (nah, I think it was the Rum)
PS I tried to mix with the goth crowd a bit in high school, but they rejected me for being too optimistic and a happy drunk.
|By Verawench on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 10:06 am: Edit|
My take on goth is somewhat polarized.... It seems that the "goth" crowd is the only capable of producing the few people with whom I can truly lock minds and ideas. Those friends are truly extraordinary, intelligent and creative.
On the other hand, those precious souls emerge from such a cesspool of pretentious, gossipy, awful black mass of humanity as to make me ill at the very thought of ever again stepping into a goth club.
I love the music, the clothing, the typical (and not so typical) goth-favored literature and art. So do my few wonderful goth friends. But my response to pretention, obsession with fashion and constant club crowd pettiness is the same as that of a fish being shown a bicycle. "What am I supposed to do with that??"
Yet I have glimpsed a grand potential in this culture that few seem to understand - as if my idealism was some sort of gothic faux-pas. But there is absolutely no use for me anymore in getting close to goth communities, not as I know them. It's much better to watch with distanced marvel at the parade of egos and artifice. It's more inspiring that way.
|By Wolfgang on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 09:37 am: Edit|
Damn it!, it doesn't work...well...go see yourself there...
...anything to kill time...
|By Wolfgang on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 09:32 am: Edit|
|By Wolfgang on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 09:29 am: Edit|
>only a couple of steps away from being a perky goth<
Don't worry, I'm not a lost raver kid in quest of identity. I don't think : ''Wow, this world is so dark, I like it and it's so kewl''(sic). I just think it's dark, cold, and it usualy sucks and when I'm ''almost happy'' it's because I have found a momentary way to stop thinking too much.
|By Verawench on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 09:26 am: Edit|
Behold: a perkygoth.
|By Melinelly on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 09:07 am: Edit|
my brain hurts...
that was a bit much to picture this soon after crawling out of bed...
|By Midas on Friday, June 01, 2001 - 08:51 am: Edit|
Perky goth: Generally the one wearing the flashing tiara and bracelet, sometimes accented with hot pink accesories. Picture Peter Murphy (bauhaus) joining the teletubbies. That seems roughly accurate...
|By Dr_Ordinaire on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 11:50 pm: Edit|
"be careful Wolfgang, being an almost happy goth is only a couple of steps away from being a perky goth ....shivers.... "
Now, I'm sure I can trust someone on this Forum to show me a pic of a "perky goth".
BTW, I'm shivering at exactly 30 Hertz...
|By Frater_Carfax on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 11:42 pm: Edit|
be careful Wolfgang, being an almost happy goth is only a couple of steps away from being a perky goth ....shivers....
|By Wolfgang on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 11:32 pm: Edit|
"What's with Canada?"
Well... (looking in the mirror) I'm pale, I'm drunk, I'm a young thin man... I'm Canadian...(shivers...)... If you ever come to Montréal, drop me an email and I will explain why we`r so pale and thin...(and no it`s not because you`r a cute goth girl, I'm an almost happy goth with an almost happy goth-girlfriend).
Whaaaaa! I'm afraid! (Something tell me ''never post when drinking absinthe'' and the green fairy tells: ''post more and more and more...hihihi!).
|By Frater_Carfax on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 11:18 pm: Edit|
A liquor which has an unfortunate secondary side effect is Bundaberg Rum - real Jeckyll and Hyde stuff...
It can turn the most shy introverted person into a gibbering obnoxious wanker. I am yet to see someone be "sedately" drunk on this stuff.
|By Verawench on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 10:59 pm: Edit|
What's with Canada? Every SINGLE person I've met from Canada has been pale, young male, thin, depressed and/or alcoholic. And I'm talking about a good dozen or so people.
Not that I mind brooding pallid boys, but this is getting a bit weird.
|By Marc on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 10:51 pm: Edit|
you look like the love child of Woody Allen and Lyle Lovett. Which is not a bad thing.
How's the poontang up there in Vancouver?
|By Btyre on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 10:47 pm: Edit|
Heh, since were on this one:
Beer- Don't know never had enough true beer.
Malt Liquor- Yes it is a 40 of Olde English in my picture Talkative, sleepy, arround, ponderful, amazed. Depends on what I'm looking at. Long story.
Mixed, liquer based drinks- Contemplative. Bored. Sleepy. Aroused. Whatever. Much the same as malt liquor, but malt liquor "fucks you up quicker"
Tequila- Had it once, only a small quantity never again.
I think you get the picture now
|By Msjekyll on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 10:11 pm: Edit|
ANd when you are.... you can't even spell it!
|By Msjekyll on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 10:10 pm: Edit|
wine- beer- whiskey- tequila- gin- brandy- vodka-
happy, sleepy, mean, ornery, psychopathic, dangerous, funny, talkative, uncoordinated.......
Somene forgot HORNEY!!!!!!
|By Dr_Ordinaire on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 02:26 pm: Edit|
regarding my maceration experiment: how could I get more thujone into a liter of 95% alcohol? I used about 100g of wormwood in 1l of alcohol and macerated it for 48 hours (and some rest of it even for a whole week!). "
Heiko, I have no answer to your questions because I have never macerated wormwood in alcohol for secondary effects.
Once again (and I sound like Artemis saying for the 153rd time: "I will NOT talk about thujone...) I only spoke about: "the synergistic interaction of all the herbs involved (and alcohol)"
Why don't we change the subject for a while?
How about this:
Would absinthe made without wormwood have the same secondary effects?
|By Dr_Ordinaire on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 02:13 pm: Edit|
"What proof do you have that it is? Junk science from the 19th C.?
Bob: "Junk science from the 19th century" Maybe. I would like to remind you that a lot of modern science is actually quite old. If I'm not wrong, Einstein published his work about relativity early in the 20th century (yep, about a hundred years ago.) About the same time, the bulk of research about absinthe was being conducted. I don't see many people making fun of Einstein.
"Even if the vintage stuff had 100 mg/l, that works out to what, 3 mg. per fl. ounce? If one drank ten ounces of absinthe, that would be 30 mg. of thujone, maybe? So we're supposed to believe that thujone is 10 times more powerful than heroin? With thinking like that, no wonder the French gummint was able to whip up an anti-absinthe frenzy. All they need is a few goose-steppers like you to take everything at face value... ""
No, Bob, but I may still think that thujone-plus-all-the-other-herbs-plus-alcohol has some effect that goes beyond the alcoholic content. Jeez, why do I see everybody's panties rising up when I say this...???
As far as goose-stepping. I seemed to have started a trend, calling Morrigan a fascist. Before I joined this Forum, I spent years researching about absinthe. Not 9-to-5, but as an amateur...
Everywhere I've been, thujone is considered the main psychoactive component of absinthe. Now, in this Forum, just because 3 people think differently, it is actually Politically Incorrect to say so.
Well, Bob, who's goose-stepping here? I'm not asking anything as fuzzy as "thinking outside the box". Just think "outside the Forum".
|By Heiko on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 12:33 pm: Edit|
You know what you must try if you like nice secondary effects?
Steep some Kava root in white rum for two weeks, filter it, cheers!
Tastes a little woody, but it numbs your mouth so you don't taste too much of it anyways.
|By Heiko on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 10:49 am: Edit|
regarding my maceration experiment: how could I get more thujone into a liter of 95% alcohol? I used about 100g of wormwood in 1l of alcohol and macerated it for 48 hours (and some rest of it even for a whole week!).
That stuff had a secondary effect, but it wasn't blasting me off my feet or something. As I said, maybe 10% stronger than the best Spanish absinthe - even if I say 20 or 30%, what would that make? 11, 12 or 13 mg/kg thujone? Probably not - probably the thujone level was much higher, but it didn't do that much to the effect of that stuff.
Then, how could we get more thujone in distilled absinthe than was in the maceration before? Mystical multiplication of thujone molecules in the distillation process? Or maybe we could just pour some pure thujone into it... ah, that must have been Pernod's secret recipe!
|By Bob_Chong on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 10:34 am: Edit|
What proof do you have that it is? Junk science from the 19th C.?
Even if the vintage stuff had 100 mg/l, that works out to what, 3 mg. per fl. ounce? If one drank ten ounces of absinthe, that would be 30 mg. of thujone, maybe? So we're supposed to believe that thujone is 10 times more powerful than heroin? With thinking like that, no wonder the French gummint was able to whip up an anti-absinthe frenzy. All they need is a few goose-steppers like you to take everything at face value...
|By Dr_Ordinaire on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 08:56 am: Edit|
"All these discussions of various secondary effects from various brands of absinthe are interesting, especially because the consensus seems to be that thujone is not the magic factor,..."
Pantrax, reading this Forum may give a distorted impression about thujone and its effects.
Actually, the consensus (outside of the Forum) is that thujone IS the main psychoactive component of absinthe.
Some Forum members seem to think differently, but until now no evidence has been presented to support their novel theory.
|By Wolfgang on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 08:41 am: Edit|
Here`s the effect I feel when drinking too much of those...
Wine : Talkative,(+happy if it`s good wine)
Beer : sleepy, lazy
whiskey and most strong alcohol : crazy and sick
Absinthe : Dreamy, focused on details, feeling ''out of time'', I can drink more and more and more and more...
If absinthe was easily available at a reasonable price, the green fairy would probably turn me into a pathetic alcoholic. In fact, my girlfriend (who can't stand the taste and smell of absinthe) is already afraid when she see that I can sometimes drink a liter of 55% alcohol in a week (which I never did before discovering absinthe...but I starved without absinthe for more than a month so ....>insert excuse of your choice here< ).
The thing is you can drink tons of absinthe before feeling sick.
Did you experimented the same thing ?
Wolf (turning green).
|By Mr_Rabbit on Thursday, May 31, 2001 - 08:01 am: Edit|
wine- happy, I-really-love-you-man
beer- sleepy, say things I shouldn't, friendly
whiskey- mean, ornery
tequila- psychopathic, dangerous, funny
gin- cant stand the taste, so I dunno
brandy- sardonic, and I write like a fiend
vodka- talkative, uncoordinated
|By Pataphysician on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 07:37 pm: Edit|
My grandmother-in-law, who drank tumbler after tumbler of bourbon, used to say: "Gin? Oooo, don't drink that -- it'll make you crazy!"
|By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 06:03 pm: Edit|
Wine/Brandy = dozy
Absinthe = dreamy
Gin = surly
Bourbon = sleazy
Beer = bloaty
Tequila = pukey
(Now THERE's some dwarves for ya!)
|By Verawench on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 05:50 pm: Edit|
Gin = weepy
Beer = lazy
Vodka = happy
Tequila = sloppy
I feel like I'm naming Disney dwarfs or something.
|By _Blackjack on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 04:10 pm: Edit|
Gin = witty, dark, sardonic
Burboun = surley
Beer = loud, gregarious, prone to over-react
Tequila = boisterous, hyperkenetic, wholly devoid of common sense
|By Heiko on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 03:29 pm: Edit|
Another funny thing is how the effects vary on one individual (I can only speak for myself) as I get used to certain drinks. When I drink absinthe regularly I don't notice the effects as something special anymore. Then I have a glass of pastis or ouzo, it tastes similar and I seem to await the same feeling. But then, I feel the alcohol more quickly and tend to think "wow, this is strong compared to absinthe" - that means I rate the normal alcohol feeling of pastis as something special.
|By Pantrax on Wednesday, May 30, 2001 - 02:40 pm: Edit|
All these discussions of various secondary effects from various brands of absinthe are interesting, especially because the consensus seems to be that thujone is not the magic factor, and that a given absinthe can give different people different effects. At first, this surprised me.
But then I thought about it and realized that I even feel different effects from beer vs. wine. Drinking a lot of beer tends to make me jovial, energetic, and social. Wine makes me relaxed, mellow, and contemplative. While some of this could no doubt be attributed to the different circumstances that tends to lead to drinking either beer or wine, I am sure there are real differences in the effects produced by these beverages. And I don't know why. But given this, it isn't so surprising that the different combinations of herbs, congeners, or whatever in each brand of abinsthe could each have different effects, and that these effects would vary among individuals.
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