After Hours
Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: Topics Archived Thru Dec 2000:After Hours
I checked -- "Murdering Mouth" was released last month as a CD single (recorded live).
Cale does have a few recent releases of his own, but they're all instrumental music from soundtracks. He has produced a number of recordings by other people, and his autobiography (with Victor Bockris), _What's Welsh for ZEN_ was published last summer.
The Creatures do have the habit of releasing a lot of 'special one printing only' EPs... I have one, Zulu You, I got at a show- maybe Cale is on another one? I will check their site later and let you know if I can find it.
He certainly did. He's been doing that song since the '70s (there's a live recording on the "June 1, 1974" album with Kevin Ayers, Nico, Eno, et. al) and I think it just keeps getting better.
He and Siouxsie traded vocals on a couple of songs, including one called "Murdering Mouth" which they co-wrote. I was hoping it would appear on a Creatures release, but it apparently hasn't.
Perruche,
did Cale cover 'heartbreak hotel' at the show you were at? He did at the one in Boston... transcendant is right.
Yes, I imagine it can be very hard to relax around people who are fans. Especially the kind of fans the Cure gets. There's that sort of bubblegum element to them and their music that I think got to me in the end --even after they stopped being so charmingly goth they kept making good pop music but it began to seem pretty one-dimensional to me.
Much pop music does now, unfortunately. I used to hate music snobs, now I'm turning into one. Spending a number of years trying to learn to play well, in a type of music in which there are objective standards, seems to do that to people.
I will say that Siouxsie and the Creatures make very interesting music -- I saw them on tour with John Cale (of whom I'll never grow tired) and it was transcendent. Cale is a great example of someone who's classically trained but remains very open to all kinds of musical ideas. Pity he hasn't released anything new in a while.
Perruche, I am biased in that regard, as I'm really not much of a Cure fan. I find their later stuff very samey, but apparrently the new album 'Bloodflowers' is quite good. I haven't heard it though. I'm more of a Siouxsie fan. Actually I'm a bit obsessive about that lady.
I met Roger through a good friend of mine. She's on a soap opera here called 'Home and Away'. They met at a party, clicked, and hence Roger was introduced to us. He's looking forward to doing our radio show, as he knows we are not Cure fans, therefore the questions won't be of the "What's Robert Smith really like?" variety.
-Robert.
Midas, what do you think of the stuff the Cure is doing these days? They were very, very important to me as a depressed teenager, but I'm afraid I stopped listening around the time of "Disintegration". Either they changed too much, or I did. I think I started getting happier. Then I began learning Irish/Celtic music so my CD money started going for classic recordings in that genre, and that was that.
Hey, I had an idea on the bandwidth problem. Anatomist mentioned passing the hat to fund more, but I bet if we look, quite a few of us already own more... Links to archived material could be put up, which would lead to web pages put up by forum members. I have something like 15 megs of storage space I'm not using at the moment (I forget the bandwidth off the top of my head.) But if we took out the pictures and kept it simple (straight HTML, no scripts etc) Kallisti could send us the files, we could FTP em, and there you go.
Also, I was reminded of why this site is important for virgin absintheurs last night. I had dinner with Roger O'Donnell from the Cure, and he told me about how he and Robert Smith bought a bottle of absinthe when they were on tour, not knowing much about it, and thinking they'd 'get high' off it, drank half each in one sitting. Straight. He hasn't touched any since. However, he's coming on my radio show next week, then to our place afterwards, so I think I may be able to tempt him into having a glass, and showing him how to drink it without giving yourself renal failure.
-Robert.
This is off the cinema topic, but I thought it might be of interest to a couple of people. I was looking for info about the NIN "the Perfect Drug" film clip yesterday, specifically, the reference to absinthe, and I stumbled upon a site that had stills from the clip, and the Edward Gorey pics they were inspired by. I always thought it was a pseudo-Dracula theme they were going with, but it appears not.
I'll try to find the site again, and post an address if anyone is interested.
-Robert.
Marc,
Indeed I do work at a movie theater. I put together/take apart films and do construction work there. I put ALMOST FAMOUS together too, but didn't watch it until later, with others.
We have 4 screens and good owners, but we're in the middle of a University campus, so we get a lot of peurile crap like CHARLIE'S ANGELS and such... it's what woo-hoo 19 year olds want, judging from attendance. We only have DANCER for one week, and it only shows once a day.
K.
"Goonies is "at least as good as" Citizen Kane?
I detect some cranial-rectal inversion."
Have I ever insulted you here, Bob Chong? Why do you feel free to insult me? Well, you started it so feel free to plant your lips on my rectum, buddy. No, "The Goonies" is not "as good as Citizen Kane". It's better. Way better than one of the most overrated pieces of gloomy crap from one of the most overrated movie directors of all time. Sorry to piss on your icon, but Orson Welles ain't shit to me.
anatomist,
I agree that Artaud would have liked DITD.
Director Lars Von Trier has a wicked sense of humor. He subverts melodrama by exaggerating it.
Magic realism.
anatomist,
I can't tell if you're joking. Did you really see
DANCER IN THE DARK in the way you described?
If so, how the fuck did you get your hands on the film, splice it and view it? Do you work at a movie theater?
Marc,
Just had a great movie experience today. Pulled all ten reels of DANCER IN THE DARK out of their cans, spliced them together, threaded the projector, and treated myself to a private screening. WOW! I have to say that I was awestricken and changed... similar to undergoing an intense mind-drug experience. When I finally mustered the gumption to get up and put on my coat, the sound and feel of its fabric rustling were almost unbearably intense. I'm thankful our theater finally got it, as I may have waited for video, or ended up not seeing it at all. Thanks for the recommendation. Antonin Artaud would be proud of this movie.
K.
Black Rabbit,
I just reread your first post on the Goonies and I have to thank you...that is the funniest thing I have read this week.
- J
Hey You Guuuuys!
goonies left me wanting nothing more than to find treasure, the booty traps are of no concern here..
Howard's end depressed the crap out of me. Definite Giant Mutant oppurtunity.
And yeah, the Goonies is as good as Citizen Kane. In a completely different way... for me it's what I get out of a movie, not necessarily what was put in. The Giant Mutant makes me smile.
Yvonne,
Yeah, the Ninth Configuration was great. I knew there was a movie about a killer where the hero was treated to an amnesiac surprise, but I had forgotten about that one. Much better than ANGEL HEART, which had too high of a ratio of flash over substance.
K.
For those of you who may be interested, please join me in the New York Times film forum.
http.//forums.nytimes.com. There's an interesting
collection of actors, screenwriters, drunks, housewives and film geeks that post there.
I post there as hippymc.
I've just redone my historic smut site, and thought I'd debut it here:
http://www.pornokrates.com/
Its a re-do of the one currently sitting on chapel perilous, but streamlined and cleaned up (not in the content sense).
By Anatomist1
>Here's a few movies I came up with that deal with violence and cruelty in interesting ways:
And of course, the greatest of them all:
A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
I'd also recommend John Woo's THE KILLER. I don't even like action films much, but this one is so extreme it transcends catagory. Way, way over the top. There are more shots fired in this than all the Dirty Harry and Schwartzenager movies put together. It is just so audacious in its violence that it transcends notions of art, taste, and morality, blotting such concerns right out of your mind.
It is also the virtual blueprint for every gun scene by Tarrantino and his disciples. That "standoff with two guys each pointing a gun at the other guy's head" thing comes from THE KILLER and is done much more cleverly than any of the subsequent rip-offs. In the original the two guys are also rivals for the attentions of a blind woman who is in the same room and there is a long, hilarious scene where they manouver around the room carrying on chitchat with her while, unbeknownst to her, they're holding each other hostage.
Anyone ever seen The Ninth Configuration by William Peter Blatty? It's a sensitive and darkly humorous film set in an insane asylum.
Goonies is "at least as good as" Citizen Kane?
I detect some cranial-rectal inversion.
The Goonies is at least as good a movie as anything else listed in this thread. If I have to explain why, I guess others are seeing a different "Goonies" than I see.
Rabbit,
One movie I always thought could've used a giant mutant was HOWARD'S END. How this, of all the Merchant Ivory gigs, got all that acclaim I have yet to fathom. I usually love those 'wig and corset' flicks, but about a third of the way through this one, I was ready for space aliens to land, or a swamp creature to rip off Helena Bonham Carter's clothes... well, I guess that's not saying much, because I'm always ready to watch a swamp creature rip off HBC's clothes...
Speaking of strangely beautiful women, are there any other Juliette Binoche worshipers out there?
K.
OK,
Here's a few movies I came up with that deal with violence and cruelty in interesting ways:
DEATH AND THE MAIDEN (Sigourney Weaver/Ben Kingsley... a truly harrowing experience)
THE DEER HUNTER
UNFORGIVEN
THE SHINING (my vote, best horror movie)
FRESH (Sean Nelson/Larry Fishburne... see this!)
SLC PUNK (a Repo Man vibe)
GROSSE POINTE BLANK
Just a few that came to mind.
K.
Why the Goonies?
Any movie with a giant mutant wearing a superman shirt beating up mobsters is aces in my book.
And I like it when he says 'Baby Ruth.'
There just aren't enough giant mutants in film today. They should unionize or something.
Like, MI2 was pretty cool, but it would have been way cooler with a giant mutant instead of Tom Cruise. Or how about Interview with a Giant Mutant?
I have liked this movie since it came out. I still like the Transformers, even though I can see the flaws in it now, my twelve year past sees what was so cool about it too.
LESTAT: 'I am going to give you the choice I never had.'
GIANT MUTANT GUY: 'Baby Ruth?'
LESTAT: 'Damn you! Stop saying that! Listen to me, I offer you enternity!'
GIANT MUTANT GUY: 'Huh huh hee huh. Baby ruth?'
JKK,
You should remember that this whole row started because you tried to stomp on my enthusiasm for a movie I mentioned: not because you had seen it and did not like it, but because you found something about it plagiaristic (which makes no sense) and, it was beneath your high brow tastes. Most people have listed their "favorite" movies, but you have deigned to bestow upon us "the greatest movies of all time", and lampooned Masterpiece Theatre for being "unimportant", in addition to the haughty use of french phrases.
Anytime you set out to squash someone else's fun without evidence, and presume to make statements about the objective worth of art/entertainment based on your own tastes, you should be prepared to take a little heat. Personally, I have not seen nor studied films enough to venture any such proclamations. I originally mentioned that KANE was universally acknowledged to be the greatest film of all time because this appears to be the consensus among scholars and critics, not because my superior powers of critical judgement made it so.
It all boils down to the fact that some of us think you're a snob and a buzzkill, and you don't: there really isn't much left to argue about.
K.
Blackrabbit--Why The Goonies?
Listen,
The chemists can fill hundreds of lines in this forum on molecular arcana that might as well be written in Sanskrit, as far as I'm concerned. The computer freaks ask me questions like, "What is your URLOLED?" Some people that couldn't write a correct sentence in English to save their lives brag about their I.Q.'s and their studies of ancient languages.But if I print one phrase in French in this forum--though others do that, too--I'm jumped on. Obviously, you feel threatened. I'm not sure why. It's your hang-up, not mine. Allez vous faire foutre! There I go using French again!
Oh, and by the way, I have never bragged about my knowledge of the language. (As a matter of fact, I admit I couldn't hold a decent conversation in French any more or post this message in that language without making egregious mistakes.) Find someone else to knock.
By and large I'm not into arty-farty, self indulgent bullshit so as an un-artistic philistine (and proud of it), here's my top ten films.
The Exorcist
Pulp Fiction
Gandhi
The Deerhunter
Trainspotting
Cry Freedom
The Field
The Good the Bad and the Ugly
The Devil Rides Out
Taxi Driver
I'm not into analysing any the above, they're just bloody good entertainment, (which is the only point of any film, music, art etc).
Hobgoblin
Anatomist, I can get behind that. If it ain't got that swing, it ain't got a thing. I thought you were saying you should worry about damaging the psyches of your audience.
Some films I like:
Angel Heart
Blue Velvet
City of Lost Children
Nightmare Before Christmas
Citizen Ruth
Rushmore
Man Bites Dog (what can I say, it makes me laugh)
Muriel's Wedding
Rear Window
Shallow Grave
Akira
Heaven and Earth
Life is Beautiful
the Good, the Bad and the Ugly
the Goonies
the Lost Boys
Repo Man
Naked Lunch
and one with John Wayne I can never remember the title of. He played a bastard who sold out his friends and owned a big steel mill. It ended with him an empty, broken man. Then they tacked on a 'serve your country to redeem yourself' ending cause it was wartime.
Jkk:
Don't drag me into this. The Anatomist was calling you on your being pedantic with the pithy French phrase being tossed about for us proles to contemplate and translate, and he's right for doing so.
BC
Marc,
I think you should spend a little time around university art departments, before you get too comfortable with that "art is self indulgence" line. You will see student after student who thinks every fleeting thought that enters their head is brilliant, and feel no responsibility to put any effort or craftsmanship into their work. After looking at your 4000th amorphous blob, out-of-focus lazily composed photo, or random pile of sticks and wire, come back and tell me art is self indulgence.
There is difference between indulging oneself and challenging oneself, beween digging down deep and skimming the scum off the surface. Any thirteen year-old boy can string together a bunch of violent and scatalogical non-sequiturs and call it 'Wild at Heart', er... art. Except, when 13 year olds do it, they call it 'goofing around', and they don't expect anyone to put them on a pedestal for it. Art is not merely self indulgence. Mere self indulgence is masturbation, which is generally only interesting to one party: the masturbator. Without the intention and the effort to communicate through one's work, to connect to an audience, there is no art.
K.
Oh yes, I forgot Pulp Fiction, thanks for reminding me...
Bone man,
"Chacun a son gout" means "Each one to his
taste." In other words, it may not be my cup of
tea, but if you like it--fine.
What is it that we are supposed to be arguing
about? I think you are just looking for a fight.
Isn't that Bob Chong's department?
Marc,
Yes, I know all the movies are old, but what
can I do? If you asked me for my list of the
greatest novels of all time, there wouldn't be
anything on it written after the 1920s. I wish it
weren't so, but I can't honestly put something
like "Pulp Fiction"--as much as I enjoyed it--on a
short list of the very best films ever made. I
was considering making another list: the best
films, in my opinion, made since 1966. Then I saw
that the most recent of those was made in 1980.
So I'm back where I started--with a list old
movies
Marc,
I'd like to add a few of my favorite films for your consideration (in no particular order):
1. WALKABOUT (Nicholas Roeg)
2. THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST (Scorcese)
3. LITTLE MURDERS (Alan Arkin)
4. REAR WINDOW (Hitchcock)
5. WEST OF ZANZIBAR (Tod Browning)
6. DR. STRANGELOVE (Kubrick)
7. HAPPINESS (Todd Solodz)
8. MAGNOLIA (P. T. Anderson)
9. SWEET AND LOWDOWN (Woody Allen)
10. THE SOURCE (Chuck Workman)
11. THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE (John Frankenheimer) (SECONDS is good, also)
12. RUSHMORE (Wes Anderson)
13. BRAZIL (Terry Gilliam)
14. THE BIG LEBOWSKI (The Coen Bros.)
15. RUMBLE FISH (a guilty pleasure) (Coppola)
JKK,
"Chacun a son gout."
Who's this Chacun dude, and how did his son get the gout?
I wasn't speaking of proper names or titles. If you think the spirit and tone of your recent posts here doesn't come off as snobbish and elitist, go ahead and think that. Things must just sound different down here on the lower end of your 'brow' heirarchy...
Now, I'm off to eat some tortilla chips and cheese dip.
K.
jkk,
I see you like the films of Jean Vigo. I do too.
L' Avventura is a film I've never been able to get into. Antonioni's compositions are beautiful.
I love the look of Red Desert. I think he clearly influenced some of Kubrick's later films, particularly Eyes Wide Shut. My problem with Antonioni is that his films are cold and dramatically inert. His use of framing and color is inspired, but he doesn't move me emotionally.
Your list doesn't include any films made in the past 40 years! I am surprised.
Anatomist1,
I am not looking down on anyone. I hate snobbery, and I never use my interest in the arts to try to make myself look better than others, which is a middle-brow stance, if you ask me. We all have our specialties and our weak points. You may have noticed that I am ignorant when it comes to chemistry--in fact, most sciences. I also know nothing about computers--damn them! (Sorry, if that was offensive to the computer fanatics in this forum.)
Here are the translations of the foreign works I've mentioned:
Une saison en enfer--A Season in Hell (Rimbaud)
L'Atalante--The Atalanta (Vigo)
L'Avventura--The Adventure (Antonioni)
All right, satisfied?
Marc,
Funny, I watched the video of Greed again recently, which I hadn't seen in a coon's age. Here's an interesting story that maybe someone someday will be able to investigate: I was told by Miles Kreuger, the owner of the Institute of the American Musical, (in Los Angeles), that John Houseman claimed to have seen the complete version of Greed years after it was made, and that it still exists somewhere in some warehouse.
All right, here's my list:
The Birth of a Nation
Sherlock Junior
Strike
October
Zero for Conduct
L'Atalante
The Rules of the Game
Citizen Kane
The Magnificent Ambersons
Tokyo Story
Sawdust and Tinsel
The Seven Samurai
Vertigo
L'Avventura
Jules and jim
8 1/2
I'd like to see him hook up with several singers... actually "take charge of" is more what I had in mind. Unfortunately, voices and aesthetic judgement don't always go hand in hand. Sinead O'Connor and the Cranberries' Delores O'Riordan are the first two names that come to mind.
Have you heard the new Emmylou disk? If not, I advise you not to go out of your way: it's dull. I feel bad for her because she went to so much trouble to write her own songs, and they just aren't very good. When it comes to interpretation and just plain singing -- especially backup vocals -- she's the queen, but songwriting just isn't her thing. Spyboy is very good, though. I think working with Lanois caused a permanent change in her voice... like she's embracing it's inevitable decay.
K.
anatomist
I love Wrecking Ball for Emmy's voice and Lanois'
production. The "Lanois sound" has a certain shabby elegance, as if everything was recorded using microphones made out of velvet and rusted tin. I dig it. I'd like to see Lanois hook up with Nick Cave and p.j. harvey.
Marc,
If you wanna talk music and stuff, how come you never told me if you've heard "Wrecking Ball"? I'm getting a CD writer soon -- I could make you a copy... I think it's both Daniel's and Emmylou's best effort so far.
K.
bravo-
i will post some amusing stuff when i am camera-
ready...
I don't collect the postcards, except for a few, but any material on or about vintage smut. Bawdy Tales, etchings and french whores all make me very happy. I've recently registered pornokrates.com and will eventually move my smut pages over there.
Long time favorite is Bellocq, which also satisfies my New Orleans fetish. I recently did a touch up on one of his most famous women, switched out the bottle for a Pernod, and put a glowy green glass in her hand ... lets see if I can post it.
