|By Don_walsh on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 08:07 pm: Edit|
Absinthedrinker, yes I used to read a lot of Robert Sheckley. At the moment I can't think of any Sheckley novels off top of my head but, he was a very prolific short story writer and a master of the 'short-short' format. Highly entertaining. Alas I have not heard of anything new from him in a coon's age so I guess he shuffled off his mortal coil. I'll raise a glass to old Robert, when next I open a bottle of absinthe.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 01:32 pm: Edit|
You say all off topic philosophising is actually on-topic, maybe you do have a point (but only up to a point).
|By Admin on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 07:16 am: Edit|
Ok, registration features is activated.
Please feel free to email me if you have problems!!!
|By Don_walsh on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 01:54 am: Edit|
Dear Absinthedrinker: yes SF and I go back to mid 60s. I founded the New Orleans SF Assn, was its first president, talked Bob Silverberg into appointing me southern regional chairman of SFWA, organized the New Orleans leg of the Nebula Awards banquets 1969-73. In between managed to do some rather forgettable writing, sold a few stories.
Doorways in the Sand was fun but lightweight, Lord of Light was great. Try THIS IMMORTAL, THE DREAM MASTER, and the various Francis Sandow novels...short stories: "A Rose for Ecclesiastes" all time best. More novels: Creatures of Light and Darkness was cool but flawed, Jack of Shadows cool but flawed, Roger was having trouble ending his stories. The Amber series: brilliant fantasy. Like Tolkein meets Jack Kerouac. Roger started that series in the mid 60s, ended it only with his death 30 years later and about 12 books as I recall...it was originally just a trilogy.
Roger was a formally trained scholar of Elizabethan and Jacobian drama (and that helps explain his plots.) Also a good judoist trained at the epicenter of the judo world by the people who invented the sport.
I like a lot of other SF but Zelazny will always be special for me.
|By marc on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 01:18 am: Edit|
I have read Ligotti and I agree he is an heir to the mantles of Poe and Lovecraft.
|By Marc on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 01:17 am: Edit|
Hobgoblin complains that "there is too much off-topic philosophising" in the forum. I say "no way". Initially, as you drink your first sips of absinthe, you discuss it's flavor and effect. As you continue to drink, you discuss the films, the books or music you love...or the flickering of the candle on the dining room table. We are gathered here as absinthe drinkers and friends, all topics are on-topic because we, absinthe drinkers, are discussing them. I mean after all, how much can you really say about a drink. It is where the drink leads you that is interesting. Please observe the evolution of this thread, from registration and ip addressing to Lovecraft fairies and Poe. So, what is the topic? We are!
|By Absinthedrinker on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 12:14 am: Edit|
Don, I see that you are a vintage SF lover. The first Zelazny I read was Lord of Light which I thought was an epic work, I wasn't as keen as Doorways in the Sand though - it just didn't seem to have the same depth. Did you ever get into Sheckley, an underrated genius IMHO.
|By BloodStreamRuns on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 09:54 pm: Edit|
To any fans of Lovecraft, I would highly recommend Thomas Ligotti. He is admittedly influenced by Lovecraft, but is (in my mind) much more intellectual in his methods of inducing fright (none of the Chtulu type stuff). I'm not easily scared, but I had a hard time sleeping the night I read "Dreams of a Mannakin." For those starting out, I would recommend Songs of a Dead Dreamer (DJ Spooky named his first record after this book) or Nightmare Factory, which collects the bulk of his stories.
A purely guilty pleasure, but enjoyable nonetheless...
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 06:22 pm: Edit|
Thanks, Kallisti, for the good taste in authors and the rest, too.
|By Admin on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 05:37 pm: Edit|
First off, I'd like to thank the dozen or so folks that have registered since I posted this message. We will do a month long test run of mandatory registrations for posting starting tomorrow, MONDAY. Please keep using this thread to post problems of opinions regarding these measures.
This forum is busier bar far than the previous incarnations and I know that because I have the numbers.
And on the recent literary leaning of the thread, when I was 13 (1981) for Christmas I was given novels by three authors by my stepmother. Lord Dunsany, Jane Austen & Tanith Lee ... those who know me, know their influence and I would not have been the same having never read them (and everything they've written).
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 02:32 pm: Edit|
Not impossible but unlikely, as I have not set foot in the UK since '86 -- that was a special ops conference, and I'm pretty out of all that now, part of the Over the Hill Gang as we say, And I haven't been to Ireland, sadly, but as you might imagine -- one thing is a consequence of the other.
|By Fellraven on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 02:13 pm: Edit|
AFAIK it was Lovecraft's own work (1920s material) I was reading and have no reason to doubt its authenticity. His "horror" is too personal/subjective and too tied to what I assume to be his personal horrors and triggers for the screaming ab-dabs to have much effect on my psyche. Kinda "Monty Python's Trail of Stinking Slime" if you'll forgive the analogy.
However if you're planning to be over this way, email me - Machen country is an hour or so away from this computer.
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 01:50 pm: Edit|
Was that Lovecraft proper or some of the hideous shit Derleth published as posthumous collaboration?
Much of that is pretty tawdry. Derleth was a good pastiche artist when it came to Sherlock Holmes, but as to HPL, well, Bloch said it best. Derleth got the words, but he never hot the music.
Anyway there's no accounting for taste, literary, or otherwise.
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 01:45 pm: Edit|
Other major influences on HPL were Poe (the Providence connection!), General
Ambrose 'Bitter' Bierce CSA, and Robert W.Chambers ("The King in Yellow").
But you are correct, Arthur Machen was in there as well. Particularly in
connection with prehuman survivals in celtic lands.
I dunno if HPL ever tasted absinthe, His friend E.Hoffman Price, now, I'd
bet on it. Price lived in New Orleans during the 20s and HPL visited him
there. Price was a lifelong lover of the Orient and a man not given to
avoiding the pleasures of life. I bet the Green Fairy had Ed on her dance
card. I had the pleasure of meeting him when I was a kid of about 18, and
again when I was about 25 or 30 -- at Poul Anderson's daughter Astrid's
wedding in City Park. A master raconteur...he died in the late 1980s, over
90 years old he must have been. The only one of HPL's personal circle I had
the honor to meet. (I had dealings with August Derleth, he published my
first work, but I never met the man.)
No, Fellraven, you didn't accuse me of anything, that was just a pre-emptive strike. :) And lose the Mr Walsh stuff. The name is Don, this is an informal Forum...
|By Fellraven on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 01:34 pm: Edit|
Mr Walsh ...
Did I accuse you of name-dropping? The reality is that I have recently re-read Lovecraft for the first time in about 30 years - since I borrowed his stuff from a public library when I was about 11. I read *some* Dunsany at about the same time. Frankly, neither did much for me at the time but what the Hell? I was undoubtedly too young.
Lovecraft *still* doesn't do much for me, unless you count making me fall out of bed laughing when reading the stuff late at night on my own in an otherwise deserted house. And that's without the absinthe.
But perhaps it's time I re-read Dunsany ...
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 01:22 pm: Edit|
Fellraven: apart from the link I provided, which quotes Lovecraft directly on Dunsany's influence, and cites an attendance by Lovecraft at a Dunsany personal lecture -- Lovecraft wrote a number of very clearly Dunsanian stories, including one in which the character King Kuranes is very clearly depicted as Lord Dunsany himself, living in the land of dream after death, as ruler of Celephais -- which place name is also title of the story.
One of Lovecraft's masterworks, "The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" is among his longest and best, and is one of his Dunsanian pieces. And King Kuranes is mentioned therein and in other works as well. "Dream Quest" was also paid tribute to many decades after Lovecraft's death by my friend Roger Zelazny in his consciously Lovecraftian "A Night in the Lonesome October" which I recommend.
(And if you suspect me of mere name dropping I commend you to "My Name is Legion" by Zelazny, in which trilogy of short novels I appear under my own name (just as below) as the protagonist's employer. Roger liked to write his buddies into his fiction. I miss him. He died about 5 years ago.)
|By Artemis on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 12:16 pm: Edit|
Yes, I have read Machen while under the influence of the Great God Pan, or maybe it was the other way around. Things have not been the same since I came down off the Hill of Dreams. I whistled and it came for me ........
|By Fellraven on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 09:57 am: Edit|
I wasn't aware that Dunsany was a major influence on Lovecraft. Machen certainly was, however, as Lovecraft cites and/or praises Machen's writing and imagination in a number of his own works.
Which brings me to a question .... has anyone tried reading Machen while under the influence?
|By Absinthedrinker on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 09:40 am: Edit|
No time for a proper post, dinner calls - but I tip my hat to Lord Dunsany who forever dwells beyond the fields we know.
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 08:55 am: Edit|
I get it. One color Fairy for the Falls Road, and one for the Shankill...
I'll have to brush up on the words to 'William Bloat'...maybe I should send Ted to do the selling after all...
|By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 08:45 am: Edit|
I'm not aware of many people back home drinking absinthe although I've introduced my father and brother to it. I've been living in London for too many years to really know for sure, although as I'm from the North of Ireland there would be a need for both a green and an orange coloured absinthe to keep everone happy. As absinthe comes in all sorts of colours I'm sure this could be accommodated. Just the sort of gap in the market you could take advantage of.
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 08:09 am: Edit|
And have they heard of absinthe in the Counties?
I must admit, my family were southerners, Sligo I believe, or West Cork.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 08:03 am: Edit|
This is enough to make an Irishman homesick.
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 07:59 am: Edit|
And if anyone's interested in Lord Dunsany the great Irish fantasist and friend of Yeats:
Justin, this fellow was a great influence on the young H.P.Lovecraft...
Lord Hobgoblin will know that Dunsany was of County Meath and not of North Antrim at all...but the Antrim coastal landscape suits his work so well, the association is for me more compelling that to Thackerey.
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 07:49 am: Edit|
Vaguely on topic (see Bushmills below:)
The lunar landscape of the Giant's Causeway, lurking below the gaunt sea wall where the land ends, must have struck wonder into the hearts of the ancient Irish.
•'When the world was moulded and fashioned out of formless chaos, this must have been the bit over - a remnant of chaos.' - Thackeray
Like the early people of North Antrim, Thackeray was very impressed by the strangeness of this place. Like other sophisticated visitors he had read that the Causeway is a geological freak, caused by volcanic eruptions, and cooling lava.
The ancients knew differently: clearly this was giants' work and, more particularly, the work of the giant Finn McCool, the Ulster warrior and commander of the king of Ireland's armies.
Finn could pick thorns out of his heels while running and was capable of amazing feats of strength. Once, during a fight with a Scottish giant, he scooped up a huge clod of earth and flung it at his fleeing rival. The clod fell into the sea and turned into the Isle of Man. The hole it left filled up with water and became Lough Neagh.
Finn was said to inhabit a draughty Antrim headland:
•'He lived most happy and content, Obeyed no law and paid no rent.'
When he fell in love with a lady giant on Staffa, an island in the Hebrides, he built this wide commodious highway to bring her across to Ulster.
The first historical accounts of the Causeway started appearing in the late 17th century. The Bishop of Derry made one of the first recorded visits in 1692 and the Chevalier De La Tocnaye, who had the good sense to take his umbrella, galloped up to the cliff edge in 1797 when both he and his horse were enraptured by the view.
Before the famous coast road was built in the 1830s visitors complained about the ruggedness of the trip. But there was one shining compensation on the journey: the town where tourists made their last stop before the final push to the Causeway was Bushmills. Ever since 1608 saddle-sore travellers had been revived with magnums of the King's whiskey at the world's oldest (legal) distillery, which is still in business.
The Causeway proper is a mass of basalt columns packed tightly together. The tops of the columns form stepping stones that lead from the cliff foot and disappear under the sea. Altogether there are 40,000 of these stone columns, mostly hexagonal but some with four, five, seven and eight sides. The tallest are about 40 feet high, and the solidified lava in the cliffs is 90 feet thick in places.
A fine circular walk will take you down to the Grand Causeway, past amphitheatres of stone columns and formations with fanciful names like the Honeycomb, the Wishing Well, the Giant's Granny and the King and his Nobles, past Port na Spaniagh where the Spanish Armada ship Girona foundered, past wooden staircase to Benbane Head and back along the cliff top.
Further down the coast, the stunning Carrick-a-rede rope bridge spans a gaping chasm between the coast and a small island used by fishermen. The terrifying eighty foot drop can be crossed via the swinging bridge - not for the faint hearted!
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 07:41 am: Edit|
I wonder how many of our fellow forumites know what we are joking about and how many of them have read Lord Dunsany (on absinthe or not...)?
|By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 07:07 am: Edit|
As I grew up in the same part of the world as the giant's Causeway stones I've tried getting them to dance, not an easy thing to do!
|By Don_walsh on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 04:36 am: Edit|
I'd be amused to see someone(s) just TRY to 'orchestrate' anything on this chaotic tribute to Mikhail Bakunin on Green Fairy. Much less, try to manipulate Kallisti! She'd not be a pushover, I'm sure of that.
You'd be better off trying to get the Giant's Causeway's stones to dance the maquerena.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 03:25 am: Edit|
The calling for forum restrictions was not orchestrated by Don or Ted and does not have anything to do with a wish to control people in a "big-brother" type of way. Neither was it meant to isolate people who choose to contribute on an irregular basis, (I used to ocassionally post to this forum 2 years ago and have only started posting again recently, nobody drove me away).
We need to do something to limit the amount of offensive posting that recently is causing a lot of bad feeling and ill-will. There is enough non-abusive irrelevant horse-shit from legitimate posters without offensive irrelevant horse-shit from trolls.
If somebody wants to disagree with somebody else, call him a w..k.r, question his parenthood, tell him that his taste in absinthe sucks etc. etc. then why not register and do it. You can hide your e-mail from appearing on your profile if you wish, if you operate from work without a personal e-mail then get a hot-mail or yahoo e-mail which you can access at work.
Why not register, what's the problem?
If you think Ted and Don are taking over the forum then register and keep telling them this.
Personally I don't have a problem with them, but what would I know? (My gripe with the forum is that there is too much off-topic philosophising and discussion of CD collections, etc. etc., but then that's my opinion)
|By Artemis on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 06:59 pm: Edit|
What a long strange trip it's been.
To address some comments by Peyton to which I can respond with authority:
I have never been chased from any forum on the Internet, as "Artemis" or otherwise. Artemis sometimes hides, but he never runs. I have not had much of a presence here lately for reasons of my own, which are well known to Don, as he is indeed my correspondent and my friend. In fact, he and I have spent much of the last couple of days in correspondence, during which I attempted to broker a truce among him and two individuals with whom he recently went toe to toe in this forum.
It is extremely ironic that mere hours before Peyton made his post, I told Don in private how differently people in this forum might view him (Don) if they could see the private generosity and kindness that so strangely contradicts his public persona. I am able to say this in spite of the fact Don was uncommonly mean to two dear friends of mine during the recent fireworks here. And Don has remained my friend in spite of the fact I recently had something to do with putting him into a difficult position. The people involved know exactly what I'm talking about. I cannot and will not go into any more detail than that.
Peyton, thank you for your kind words about me. I'm flattered.
Now, as to what Peyton said about Ted. I long held the view that Ted enjoyed a sort of Pied Piper status here and could find no explanation for it but a cult of personality. I personally made some of the challenges to Ted mentioned by Peyton. In the discussion groups I frequent other than this one, anybody who fails to answer such challenges with facts and figures that can be independently verified by all who want to take the trouble is quickly shown the door. But I have only recently fully appreciated Ted's position. In the case of absinthe, to borrow a phrase from a Morphine song, "There's no map and there's no clue, of where to go and what to do". In other words, there WAS no higher authority than Ted against which I could verify his claims. Ted was literally drawing the map. I was somewhat resentful that he would not even provide the clues, but he has his reasons for that too, which he has only within the last couple of days finally explained here in a cogent and convincing manner. Even as I am writing this post, I receive an email from another of the people mentioned by Peyton, someone who was formerly very wary of Ted, and that person now tells me Ted has today written to him in a heartfelt and convincing manner, explaining in even further detail why he does not "cast his pearls before swine". That phrase can be taken to mean people are pigs, but it doesn't. It means all things in the right place, at the right time.
Well, this grows long and tedious, but to sum up, although the picture painted by Peyton may seem to be accurate on the surface, there is more than meets the eye. And I for one am extremely encouraged. A few days ago, I thought there was no hope for this forum as a venue for me and a couple of the people Peyton mentioned. Today, some very intense, sincere, flawed human beings who share a passion for La Fee Verte, but were suspicious and wary, apparently have a new appreciation and respect for each other. They personally will be better off for it, and so will a lot of other people here if we all continue to be patient and show some respect for each other.
And to think it all started with a guy coming in and asking "Hey fellers, at what temperture do you boil that there absinthe stuff?"
Peyton, by the way, I completely respect your right to come in here and express your opinion, but I wish you would be careful about identifying people as producers of this or that. Somebody could wind up in prison as a result, okay? That sort of thing is best handled OFF line.
Now let the trolls come forth and tell me I'm maudlin and self-indulgent. And kiss my mofo ass before they return to the shadows. How was that for an insult Don? Did I do good old pal?
|By Don_walsh on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 04:18 pm: Edit|
By the way, I wonder if peyton intended to throw this thread off track...let's not let him succeed. This thread is about Kallisti's anti-troll measures. Planting claymores under the cyber bridges -- where the trolls sleep, of course...
|By Don_walsh on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 04:15 pm: Edit|
How about '.'?
Reminds me of the old joke about Reagan calling in Hickley from St E.'s and telling him all is forgiven, he's pardoned, free to go and all that. Then sliding a manila folder across the desk, with a photo of Col.Quaddafi.
"By the way, he's intimate with Jody."
|By Marc on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 04:05 pm: Edit|
I am so unaccustomed to being a voice of moderation. Now, I'm looking for somebody to get pissed off at. Any suggestions?
|By Marc on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 04:00 pm: Edit|
I am so unaccustomed to being a voice of moderation. Now, I'm looking for somebody to get pissed off at. Any suggestions?
|By Don_walsh on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:48 pm: Edit|
The only people obsessing over our forthcoming products (apart from Ted and myself, who perforce must do, in the same way that Einstein had to obsess over the general theory of relativity) are those who are threatened by them.
Hence at least some of the more obvious trolls.
Doing their own -- negative -- infomercials.
|By Tabreaux on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:44 pm: Edit|
(1) I don't think Sebor is 'bad'. It isn't my favorite, but it isn't a 'boob' product (like the other Czech swill.
(2) As far as the 'absinthe infomercial', as you all can clearly recall, I've said again and again that I'd rather not discuss any forthcoming products AT ALL. Don't want an 'infomercial', don't initiate one. When they are here, they'l be here. Until then, don't ask any more questions about it. I'd prefer that it wasn't brought up again, by ANYONE.
|By Marc on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:43 pm: Edit|
I do respect Don. I like Sebors. And using the term "hijacked" in describing Ted and Don's zeal for their absinthe experiment, was a poor choice of words. It contradicts my statements about the everchanging aspect of the forum. You can't "hijack" something that is this ephemeral.
Just when you think you've got it nailed, it slips away from you. I do wish we'd all stop obsessing over Don and Ted's product. Let them finish it, then we'll a have a glass and , hopefully, smile from ear to ear.
|By Don_walsh on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:35 pm: Edit|
This peyton wasn't worth getting outraged over, or I would have been happy to oblige. Anyway I already bagged my limit this week.
As to Artemis I happen to know he has little Net time and little inclination to post here at the moment, but he will be back. How do I know? I just got three emails from him, that's why.
And Luger, who peyton probably thinks I ran off, will be offline for a few days, because he's off hunting moose in Sweden...how do I know? Because he just told me so...
This guy peyton really has an odd worldview don't you think, people?
|By Marc on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:33 pm: Edit|
My post was written before reading Ted and Don's.
I haven't finished reading Ted's. I just wanted to make sure that the chronology of the posts was clear.
|By Chrysippvs on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:33 pm: Edit|
Didn't you do something like this on the last forum?
|By Marc on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:29 pm: Edit|
Be prepared for an onslaught. I admire your frankness. As to to the truth of what you say,
I am too new to the forum to discuss what took place 3 years ago. I do feel, however, that the forum has become a home shopping network of sorts.
Too much business not enough pleasure. I also feel that Don and Ted have hi-jacked the forum at times to further their agenda, their very own absinthe infomercial. As much as I have disagreed with Don in the past, I still read his posts with interest. He is a brilliant man who, as he himself has admitted, often has problems projecting his true personality into the cyberworld. I hope that Don, for the sake of the good of the forum, learns to use his wit instead of his anger to express some of his distaste with "the trolls", "the reptilians" "the lurkers" etc. Of course, it is ultimately by his posts that a man/woman will be judged in the forum. Don can come off as an intolerant bully. So, deal with it. Life's like that. You take the good with the bad. In the final analysis, I think Don's a good man with a public relations problem. My dealings with Ted have been just fine. Yes, he has positioned himself as a worldclass expert on absinthe and it is only his word that makes it so.
But, I'm going on faith that Ted knows what he knows and is truly what he represents himself to be. Peyton, If you don't like the tone of some of what goes on in the forum, there are other threads, new ones everyday. Try the "After Hours" forum for discussions on music, art, cinema...
all thru a glass greenly.
As to people being chased away from the forum, they're chickenshit. If they have a problem with the forum, they should confront it and change it,
much as you are attempting to do.
This is a wonderful meeting place, one of the best on the internet. It's an ephemeral world that changes as we change it. Plastic.
|By Tabreaux on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:26 pm: Edit|
First of all, the 'acts of a play', as you've described, are inaccurate. Because your conclusions are inaccurate, allow me to clarify....again:
First of all, I am on usenet from time to time regarding matters absinthe. If you monitor my communication, you'll see that what I do here is debunk the myths and gross inaccuracies regarding this subject. In the process, I usually post this link such as to draw interested persons to this BB, where they can read every quasi-educated opinion on the web, including both yours and mine.
As far as my arguments regarding taste, your accusations are not in order. Years before the advent of this BB, I had read every resource available on this subject, and had spoken to authors and published researchers regarding their conclusions. Like you still do, I initially believed that I could take everything from a reasonably respectable source at face value. As far as arguments regarding taste, like you, I had nothing to go on except generally accepted information, which I explored thoroughly. I held tightly onto some theories which seemed concrete, SO AS LONG AS the accepted information held true. Well, it didn't. Unfortunately, the pieces had to be forced to fit, and I was unsatisfied, frustrated, and a bit disgruntled. If you've kept up with my posts, then you surely are aware of that fatal point in time when I had suddenly managed to procure perfectly preserved samples of original material. When I tasted the original material, that entire edifice of theories and accepted 'truths' came tumbling down. As a result of this, despite everything I had come to know and accept, I realized how little I really knew. Being put into this very humble position spurred me on to start from square one, and that is exactly what I did from that point. Since that time, I've used my own resources to pursue the truth. As far as my unopened bottle of Pernod Fils, just to let you know, there are ways to draw a sample without opening the bottle. Regardless, most of my work (to date) has been done with samples of E. Pernod and old Herbsaint, both of which I have tasted and tested.....thoroughly.
FWIW, I have offline relationships with persons such as Luger, Mr. Wormwood, the nephilim, and others from this BB, and the status and nature of these relationships isn't public unless one of us chooses to make it so. Don't be so certain you are abreast of my relationship with any of these persons, as you indeed are not, and your assumptions are out of order.
Regarding my analytical work, I am not yet ready to release it, as there are still aspects of it which I intend to explore. When I do release it, I will choose the venue, not you. This information was performed by me, paid for by me, and was reviewed by my peers. I haven't received any grants. In a nutshell, it doesn't belong to you. I want to be certain that it is absolutely 'water-tight' before I release anything, and if you don't like it, then what shall I do to make you more comfortable in the meantime?
As far as Mr. Wormwood's testing, he and I discussed the testing privately, and certain aspects of the testing are invalid. Is this because Mr. Wormwood was incompetent or aimed to deceive? Absolutely not! Mr. Wormwood was able to perform his testing at his workplace with the existing setup. The only shortcoming here was the equipment setup used to perform the testing, which is not that specified by the official test methods. My testing uses only the official methods, is an order of magnitude more sensitive, and has been absolutely verified with spiked controls. The testing I performed took money and time to set up, test, and has been challenged and re-verified from every direction. This is standard procedure, and is EXACTLY why data shouldn't be released unless it is cross-checked and verified by a third party if possible. I am not going to go into the intimate details of what and why, as I have no intentions of writing an extended essay on analytical methods on this forum, and you probably wouldn't know what to do with that information anyway. Finally, I might once again mention that you haven't contributed to the testing, so you have no right to demand the data until it is released for public viewing.
As far as the notion that I (we) think that anyone who doesn't like anise is 'stupid', well that is something that you've made up. You've managed to come to this conclusion only because I can see that you've clearly misunderstood an entire discussion. Furthermore, if you want an accurate description of what a sample of old absinthe tastes like, then read my description. It doesn't taste like any current product, and it is difficult to describe in great detail. Don't get mad at me, as I didn't alter this truth, I just reported it. If you don't like it, that what do you expect me to do about it? Instead of trying to explain what original absinthe tasted like until I am blue in the face, I got up off my ass and invested lots of my own time and money to make it possible for you to experience exactly that.
As you can see, despite these pointed and pointless accusations, I yet remain diplomatic. As far as my associate Don, yes, Don has a temper, and he will openly admit to that. I find his BB presence to be largely opposite of hiss real demeanor, as in person, he is very nice, considerate, and diplomatic. He is also a very intelligent and capable individual. As to why Don appears to get outraged at times, only Don can answer that. Needless to say, those who like to ruffle his feathers and push his buttons have no restraints in making the types of anonymous posts which do just that. These people piss him off purposely, then complain loudly.
As far as Justin, he happens to be a brilliant young man, and if I challenge him with a specialized task to achieve, he does it...and then some. Just like Don, Justin is his own person, and I cannot any more answer anything for Justin than I can for Don.
As far as the details of relationships between any of us, or anyone outside of your immediate life, it is none of your business. It doesn't affect you or your life, so why are you so concerned? There isn't anything secretive, hidden, or devious going on behind your back, so why are you so paranoid? Maybe you sir are the one with something to hide. There isn't anything sensational here, you are just trying to make it seem that way in an attempt to discredit any or all of us. Get yourself together.
|By Don_walsh on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:14 pm: Edit|
What a pile of bilious garbage this guy is laying out for you all...
He says I 'ran off' Artemis and Absintheur. Both those gentlemen happen to be my friends and correspondents. So that's tripe.
He says I ran off Dean. Another friend and correspondent. More tripe.
www.bestabsinthe.com is not registered to Justin. It is registered to Ted. And it is owned by Ted and Ted alone. Not by Justin and not by me.
Ted and I are partners in a company in Thailand. Justin is not a partner in that corporation. I have no business relationship with Justin whatsoever. As he says -- we have had our share of arguments on and off the forum.
So take your conspiracy theory, sir lurker, and park it someplace cozy. As for your characterizing me as a cancer, well, I think you have tipped your hand for one and all that you have some sort of personal animus going here, and it ain't pretty.
Hey, Marc (no, not you, troll) -- you afraid to say you like Sebors? I don't recall you ever being shy about it.
Marc who I have fought with more than anyone else on the forum, said just a few days ago that he respects me (I won't bore you all with his reasoning, you can look up his post if you like.)
So, back to you, troll. Take a hike. No one's buying.
|By Chrysippvs on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 02:15 pm: Edit|
Just to clear up somethings which are so terribly inaccurate about this post on my behalf
1. That is URL is not registered to me. Do a WHOIS search.
2. I am not working with Don.
3. I have not tasted the final run of the products.
4. I have never met Don in person.
5. I never attested to Don's good person..matter of fact Don and I have have out share of disagreements on this forum.
6. I was good friends of Ted before this whole "Ted and Don absinthe bit" ever started.
7. As far as me being a puppet..not in any way so. I have tasted vintage absinthe (I have more on the way) I tasted Teds and they are 99% similar..I defend what I like...I don't like the Spanish Star anise flavor, I do like the vintage Anisee seed flavor. I was in this absinthe business almost a year before I met up with Ted...
Worthless worthless utterly worthless...
|By Peyton on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 01:44 pm: Edit|
I have to say I'm a little disturbed by what's happened here, and I think this call for restrictions on the forum is only an aspect of it. I'm a forum lurker, this is my real name. I do not have a personal email address. I usually check the site from work, and I've been watching a trend spring up over the last few months. I just can't believe that I'm the only one who sees it.
First we had Ted. I don't know what happened, but there was a time when Ted was actually not the center of the universe. I don't know if there is
anyone here who remembers, but Ted came to the forum before it was even a forum and started by calling people names. He said people were stupid,
that they had no understanding of absinthe, that he was the only one with a real understanding, that he was a scientist!! And, miraculously that he could back it up with his bottle of Pernod! Unopened. He refused utterly to offer any evidence of his claims, beyond hollering at people in the forum, and he was dismissed.
Mind you, people, back then, didn't much like Ted. They were having a perfectly reasonable discussion before he came and spewed vitriol in their general direction. It's unfortunate that there is no longer any forum archive that I can refer you back to to demonstrate the frosty reception that Ted received, but I can come close: Ted has a rather ammusing usenet posting histoyr at Deja.com if anyone cares to check.
To those who argue for his impirical consistancy, I challange you to show me evidence. First Ted argued that absinthe HAD to be bitter, he'd tasted
it. Then he argued that absinthe had to be anise flavored, he'd tasted it. Then he argued that absinthe wasn't bitter at all, he'd tasted it.
Then he gave a review of Pernod absinthe saying that it was floral tasting. This was a gross generality, and when pressed he totally refused
to give any specifics. When presented with modern brands he scoffed at all of them and said he'd do some testing just to prove that they were
nothing like the good stuff that he had.
All of this was fristrating to forum members, who repeatedly told ted to put up or shut up. He refused. He still refuses. TO THIS DAY Ted has
offered not one stitch of imperical scientific evidence of his claims. Not one iota. When Mr. Wormwood steps out of the shaddows and offers up
the first scientific results of his testing, what does Ted do? He scoffs at them, BUT offers nothing in return.
If you think that you've heard any sort of scientifc evidence of Ted's claims over the last three years you're deluding yourself. His claims
have only gotten gravity through repitition.
Granted, he's learned to be civil about it, that was the biggest leap forward he made, that and the big turn over in forum people.
Which brings me to Don. I'm going to try to be nice about this. Don is a cancer on this forum. He's chased away damn near every civil contributing member of the group. Remember Poppycock? Remember Dean? Remember brspiritus? Remember Mike and mike? He even mananged to insult and chase away Artemis and Absintheur, the two most prolific posters the forum ever had. These were people with something intellectual to contribute. They were non-judgemental. There was very little bashing of regular posters. Occassionally someone new would come along and they'd be marginalized because they hadn't read the past discussions, but that was about it.
For a while Don nearly cleared the forum out. Around the transition from the old script to the new one, the forum had dropped from 50 to 10 posts a day. The difference? Don attacked everyone.
Before Don, no one was affraid to say they liked Sebor. Absintheur liked Sebor, Hippymc liked Sebor, Brspiritus liked Sebor. Don torched the place and pissed on the ashes, and not EVERYONE is affraid to say they like Sebor. Do a search. There's not a mention without the caveat "I'm a real fool" or something to that effect, that doesn't draw the wrath of Don, spewing bile at everyone.
If I were going to limit the posters on this forum I'd start by getting rid of Don. That being said, Don's anger and hatred for all human kind has taken on a new sheen now that he's signed up with the big Recreate Pernod project.
Now both he and Ted have let us know trhat anyone who likes anise is stupid, that they don't really understand absinthe, that they lack the rarified scientific perspective that two chemists like them posess. It makes me want to spit. Refer back to my position on Ted's worthless and unsubstantiated claims to see why.
Don only extended the limits to which those claims went, not only are Czech drinkers ignorant boobs, but now all absinthe drinkers who aren't gasping with anticipation at Ted and Don's little experiment are complete schmucks. And no longer are them home distillations and experiments, they
are a commercial liscenced distillery with far more qualifications than you and I will ever have. Forget Luger, whose been distilling great
absinthe for two years, forget Nephelim, whose absinthe has actally been tasted by members of the forum, and liked alot. Don knows that they're
nothing but a bunch of ignorant worms to be crushed beneath his jack-boots.
And why? Because their opinions run the risk of cutting into his profits, that their shine makes him glow just that much less brightly. And, best
of all, when Don is insulted, it's not he that is hurt, it's the right and good and nobel Ted, who has shown us all the ignorance of our ways.
Which brings me to the last installment of my short little rant three years in the making. Ted and Don aren't the only two to blame for the
state of things today, they needed a prostelyte, someone to be part of the flock and to speak on their behalf. Someone to make thme look that much
less vindictive and cruel.
Justin played that part to a T, he tasted Ted's brews and said they were great, a revalation. He met Don, and said he was a good guy in person.
He vouched for everyone and seemed to get nothing in return. When folks accused him of being in financial partnership with the two of them all
three denied it. Especially Don. Do the search, it's down there in the old messages on this board. All three of tem denied that were was a business partnership.
Not true any of it.
was registered to Justin months ago. I don't know if all of the above was orchestrated to make it possible, or if it's all just a shocking
coincidence, but there it is. The three of them profiting from Ted's miraculous result-less science and content-less reviews, from Don's
vitriol and spite toward contributing forum members, and Justin's aww-shucks embracing of both of them and everything that they'd accomplished.
I'm not suprised. I am suprised that it worked. That without any evidence everyoine in the forum seems to be hanging on their every word,
waiting for the roll out so that they can buy a little piece of the great historical moment when absinthe is available again. It's just like the
days when Hill's first arrived in England. All people cared about were the claims. I challenge anyone to come up with the slightest stitch of evidence.
|By Admin on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 08:25 am: Edit|
Let me point out again, that the profile has a feature to suppress your email address. If you so choose, you CAN hide it from random people and only myself as the admin has access to it.
To test it, I just supressed it on my profile, click on the "admin" link at the top of my post and you will see that my email is not listed at all.
I had an argument with a friend of mine last nite (he was playing devil's advocate) about restricting the forum. He had a good argument that having to register may deter new folks from joining in the discussions. This will happen to some extant. But I am not adverse to trying this method out for awhile, and if the forum slows to a trickle, putting it back the way it was. I'm all for a test run.
|By bluedog1 on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 08:03 am: Edit|
I have no problem with registering, or even submitting a bio profile (might be fun to know a little more about other comrades on the Db). A valid email address is a plus and would torque down on "anonymous" commenting (I find that no matter how strong your opinion, you should be able to stand behind it, even if others disagree with you). Go for it. The fun and productivity of conversations on this Db is what we are here for. We're pretty much a community, and I don't like somebody hotrodding through our Main Street and throwing their trash into our finely manicured (and need I say "green") lawns.
Now everyone over to my backyard for booze and cigars!
|By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 03:29 am: Edit|
Mandatory registering of all those wishing to post is a good idea. However the problem with having to give a legitimate e-mail address on registering is that some legitimate forum members (for their own privacy, security etc..) may not wish do do so. It would be a shame to lose these members as a result.
I can't think of a way around this problem, can you?
|By Luger on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 02:44 am: Edit|
I´m not pretending to know what is happening inside the brains of "." and such trolls, but could it be that it is quite regular readers that comes up with something "funny" at the "heat of the moment", and that any registrationprocedure will keep them from posting even if that procedure doesn´t require a valid e-mailadress?
I mean that the "hassle" of registering would take so much time to those lazy things that cannot formulate any decent thoughts that they quit thinking about posting any "Ye are all scums" posts?
Besides, this would guarantee that noone else can pretend to be "Mr Jones", but Mr Jones himself who has the password?
I´m not saying that this is the way to go, but we should consider that sometimes the antidote can do worse at the same time as it kills off the original symptom.
Best regards: Luger
|By Perruche_verte on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 03:47 pm: Edit|
Kallisti, I would recommend only letting registered users post, as others have suggested. Currently, one does not need to give a full name in order to register. (I am "S.")
Good thing, too. Think "subpoena".
Hobgoblin, how true.
|By lordhobgoblin on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 03:00 pm: Edit|
We may not have much freedom in Europe but I suspect perhaps a modicum more than in the USA
|By lurker on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 02:32 pm: Edit|
we love you Don.
|By Admin on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 02:32 pm: Edit|
AND, you can select to NOT display the email supplied on your profile or post, therefore foiling email collecting spiders & robots from crawling away with yours.
Personally, I have numerous accounts, and this is the one I use publically as it gets so much junk. I *want* people to know who I am (even if I weren't the admin) and to have the feeling that I'm a person who can be interacted with, not that I always answer in a prompt and timely manner (but I think you can forgive me that).
|By Don Walsh on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 02:29 pm: Edit|
"the freedom we uphold here in America"?
Tell it to someone else.
There are lots of people on this Forum who aren't Americans, and being American is not a requirement to post.
There are millions of Americans who reside outside of the United States. I happen to be one of them. I believe in more freedom than does the government of the US these days. A government I served for many many years. So take your petty flagwaving rhetoric elsewhere.
One of the consequences of living in a FREE country is that I am FREE to form a corporation to manufacture absinthe LEGALLY. Not something I could do in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.
So don't talk to me about freedom. I have too many friends buried at Arlington to listen to you.
|By Admin on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 02:20 pm: Edit|
The point is that we're tired of spammers and trolls. Sure, anyone can grab a hotmail account. I'm not so worried about being able to trace the owner of an email address, but more that the steps that must be taken to register will deter the "cyber-graffitti," as Don called it, and have people who are serious about sharing info or asking an earnest question are the ones posting. And most of those folks have already registered.
This Forum has grown tremendously in the past 2 years (almost 3 now) since I first put it up. And we have to take the ten thousand + individuals who visit every month into consideration. The majority of people who come to this page are lurkers. There is roughly 10-20 active posters at any given time *even with an open forum* ...
I don't think that ratio warrants the term "discrimination" if most folks are watchers (which is FINE!!!) ... obviously the folks that are serious and have registered and/or already post using their identities & emails already have a fairly significant audience.
(¯`'·.¸(¯`'·.¸* Green Faerie Dust! *¸.·'´¯)¸.·'´¯)
|By Admin on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 01:56 pm: Edit|
O, and don't ferget if you register there is email notification of all posts if you so choose. You can read the board from your email client.
I like this cuz I can do it from work :-)
|By spammers want your e-mail on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 01:54 pm: Edit|
A valid e-mail address? Whats the sense in that? Anybody can go and sign up for free e-mail anywhere on the web behind a firewall like zonealarm, and not have their private info tagged. Then the rest is easy. if you have a linux box it's so much easier to spoof.
Acouple years ago and forums ago we have had this discussion about registaring, and I think that Kallisti should keep to her original ideas. There's no need for discrimination, not everyone is a bigot like one old person here who does not even believe in the freedom we uphold her in America, albeit...
If people want to spoof then spoof they will.
if you want a dicriminating web forum then go with a e-mail listserver or ezelm. Then Don can have what he wants a bit of control and mastery with who he deals with.
I like the idea of spoofing identity, having a nym is fun. It's only to those who you feel you can trust that you give your e-mail address to. Screw the spammers, trolls, and faries. Make your own, grow your own, consume your own
|By Admin on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 01:53 pm: Edit|
okee... I'm liking the registration idea. So I recommend all you regular posters who have *not* registered to do so, there is now a "register!" link under edit profile.
Please be aware, that if you enter in information on your profile it will be viewable by all. You can't NOT (double negative!) have folks view the profile, but you can limit the information (aside from email)that you put in it. It does email verify by sending your initial password to the email given. I encourage people to put in personal info however, makes it snugly around here. Especially pictures, even random goofy ones.
I will give ya'll a couple days notice before I implement (if I do).
|By Don Walsh on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 01:48 pm: Edit|
Bear in mind that people often have multiple email addresses (I have 5) and only one of them in traceable to me readily.
And I am not using any of the really secure ones...
So people can protect their privacy, to whatever level they wish, if they know how.
A 'bogus' email address, one that doesn't exist, and where the registrant can't receive the email response from admin with their password -- won't fly.
Presently of course it is perfectly possible to post a phony email address and look more legitimate than someone with no email address (real or imaginary) posted at all. This is a chink in the armor.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 12:46 pm: Edit|
Personally I think that there should be mandatory registration by all who wish to post. This would cut down on trolls to some extent.
If people don't want to disclose their e-mail address with registration then that's fine, anybody can get a bogus e-mail address if they want.
Also if people don't wish any of their personal details, real name etc. to be displayed in their profile then that should be their right. This only needs to be held by administration.
|By Don Walsh on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 09:44 am: Edit|
Having been through this hassle on other forums:
IP addressing doesn't work because of the already noted propensity of abusers to hide behind firewalls/proxies like AOL.
A valid email address in conjunction with a password sent to that email address by admin, is the way to go. That way no one can pose as someone else, because no posts can be made without password. This isn't perfectly secure but if someone hacks the password and poses as another, presumably the offended party is going to scream bloody murder.
Yes, posts ought to be readable by all.
And it is still possible to register 'anonymously' with actual identity protected. There are secure email hosts out there.
But this system presents people from posting cyber-graffitti.
|By Chrysippvs on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 09:42 am: Edit|
I have been working with this forum script for around 3 months now and I have too admit it is the best out there...As far as the restriction IP logging and mandatory e-mail addresses really won't help stopping trolls but I do think that registration will. Reading is one thing but posting is another... The only thing I don't like about this script is that it is in CGI, in PHP it could take hold of e-mail verfifacation...Oh well.
But I am a security freak when it comes to the internet..so I am sure I am being biased..
I still say we shold get a plugin for connecting to IRC.....
|By Tabreaux on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 09:27 am: Edit|
I for one am against big government and regulation, but the problem we have reocurring here stems not from the ability to post anonymously, but rather the exploitation and the abuse of that ability. If there is something to say which can't be supported by at least some form of identity, then it shouldn't be said. I don't care about the true identity of anyone, nor do I care to have access to that identity. I would be fine with admin having access to that person's identity however. This makes it unfavorable for a spineless shit-stirrer to pop off his mouth, and also makes less favorable a anonymous comment from an otherwise regular poster with a devious hidden agenda. Those with something sincere to say, for better or worse, will stand behind what they say. The rest is worthless garbage.
|By Admin on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 09:12 am: Edit|
I've been a roight lurker for awhile now. Bizzyness had put many of my extra-curricular activites on hold. I also have not gotten around to posting several reviews etc to the guide, I apologize! Those should be forthcoming.
But to my great joy and happiness, the forum has been extreeeeemly busy lately. There are, however, a few good points that have been brought up lately. Mainly some restrictions that might make folks accountable for their posts.
What I want is a debate on pros or cons of our options (listed below). I have kept the forum open without restrictions because there are some valuable members here who are trepidatious about traceable identity on subjects that are, essentially, illegal in nature.
Options available with this board:
* IP addressing (but since most trolls use AOL, this is not quite as sweet as it sounds)
* Mandatory registration if you wish to post (tho readable by all)
* Email address mandatory with registration (it is not currently)
* Various combinations of the above
Please discuss! I want to hear from you ....
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