Archive through July 1, 2000

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: Old Topics Archived Thru Sep 2000:Jagermeister Rumors?:Archive through July 1, 2000
By JoergGrohne on Saturday, July 01, 2000 - 12:51 pm: Edit

Jägermeister is nothing more than a herbal alcoholic drink which is drunk if you have eaten too much.

It is like Fernet Branca/Menta, Heilkräutertropfen, Sechsämtertropfen, Underberg and other herbal liqueurs.

It is not a clear Schnaps like Aquavit or Korn.

And i'm quite shure, that it contains neither wormwood or opates.

But to test it i'll leave now for a bar and find it out ;-)

p.s: Very interesting what a discussion about Jägermeister produces for mails...

By br0therben on Friday, June 30, 2000 - 09:01 pm: Edit

I'll drink that sebor!!

And yes I know what sturmgewehr means. Anyway, don't throw he sebor away, man!!!


By Don Walsh on Friday, June 30, 2000 - 08:16 pm: Edit

Dear SeaRobin

Your supposition might have been possible but not when Mo Chit repeatedly (in more than one post) made the comment that he was riding the Sky Train. The Sky Train is Bangkok Rapid Transit's elevated rail system. The Mo Chit station is its northernmost terminus.

Not a coincidence, you see.

And unfortunately we do know what South Central rap is like even here in the Land of Smiles. Ugh.

I am still hoping that Mo Chit (the Forum guy not the station) will turn out to be another Bangkokian absinthe fan and that he will take me up on my offer. (SOMEONE has to drink this frigging Sebor, I refuse.) However with ever day that he (she?) remains silent, my hopes dwindle...

By SeaRobin on Friday, June 30, 2000 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Funny, I always thought "Mo Chit" was a South Central L.A. / Gangstah Rappah way of saying "More Shit".

At least thats how my students always say it.

Don, you've been gone from the US too long....the whole language has changed. (for the worse)

I'll have to tell my kids that its a bus station in Bangkok. They'll get a big kick out of that.


By Don Walsh on Friday, June 30, 2000 - 11:17 am: Edit

Mo Chit, Mo Chit, where are you, Mo Chit?

You name yourself after a bus station and BRT terminus and say you regularly ride the Sky Train.

Naturally one asumes you are in Bangkok (as am I).

The Mo Chit station(s) are a stone's throw from this house.

ARE you in Bangkok? Or are you not? You talk about Khao San (Road -- backpacker dopesmoker district in Banglamphoo). Are you here or are you blowing a different sort of smoke entirely?

If you are an absinthe fancier you ought to be happy to come have a drink of the finest stuff you will ever taste -- free. Hey, three drinks. More if you can handle it. I'm buying.

If you aren't an absinthe drinker, then what are you doing on this Forum?

And if you aren't in Bangkok why say you are? Isn't that, well, PHONY?

Inquiring minds want to know!

The invitation is genuine (if you are for real) and without strings. Try it, you'll like it. Have some Sebor's alongside it (no thanks not for me...) You can post your honest opinion if you like. Anyone else passing through Bangkok, same invitation holds. James of has been here (less than 2 weeks ago).

BTW no underage (working) girls to be found here. (NOT off topic as you raised this issue in a racist and disparaging way.)

Age of consent in Thailand is 18. Violate at your peril. The jails have many who thought otherwise.

Age of legal emancipation is 20.

Most bar girls are in 20s and 30s. (Some 40s) Massage girls likewise. Thai girls look 5-10 years younger than they are.

Don't listen to bullshit mass media propaganda about underage sex in this country. There are more 'child prostitutes' in NYC than in Bangkok. Go project your sick fantasies elsewhere. Bangkok is a very vanilla sort of place, despite its vaunted reputation for sin. What they don't tell you is: boring, vanilla, missionary position, F&S sin. And nothing else -- unless you like boys.

When the UN in Cambodia (nest door) there was a huge problem with child prostitution. The UN dips, the newsies, and NGO staffers etc were all nailing the youngest they could find. After the elections when the UN and the NGOs and the media went away -- so did the child prostitution.

Funny, huh?

By Marc on Friday, June 30, 2000 - 10:15 am: Edit


I did have you confused with someone else. Sorry.

By br0therben on Friday, June 30, 2000 - 04:36 am: Edit

Marc -
I am a bit confused about your statement below.
I originally argued that "I agree with Marc that tertiary issues do have a place in this forum." So no, you don't have to wander over to the NRA forum to vent about guns. We DO talk about other drugs on occasion, and I am in favor of legalizing the vast majority of them...which I stated. Maybe you have me confused with someone else?
I don't mind diversions, because people are complex beasts who tend to ramble (like me). Likewise, I don't have any deep-seated problem with hash-heads or pacifists, though I sometimes view the latter as childish idealists.

By Don Walsh on Friday, June 30, 2000 - 01:11 am: Edit

Dear Mo Chit

As you would be seem to be in Bangkok, that puts you in the enviable position of being one of the few on the Forum who can conveniently taste the absinthes that Ted developed and I am getting ready to mass produce here.

I hereby invite you to do so.

I can be reached at 690 0265 or 0266. Location is Ladyao, Chatuchak, not far from Central Plaza Ladprao and the main Thai Airways Building.

By Marc on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 02:26 pm: Edit


Brautigan's daughter, Ianthe, has just published
a memoir about Richard called You Can't Catch Death. It's a slim volume. She's inherited a bit of his writng style. A good book.

By Absintheur on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 02:07 pm: Edit

"Brautigan's Trout Fishing In America, In Watermelon Sugar and A Confederate General In Big Sur are among my favorite novels."

Mine too.

"I wonder if he ever drank absinthe?"

He sold wormwood, to smoke, to an acquaintance of mine. She was buying a copy of Please Plant This Book from him in Montana (I believe). Make of that what you will.

She no longer has the book, now worth a small fortune, but does have the wormwood, now worthless.

"A tall gentle man, with a sweet smile."

And, a voice like Kermit the Frog. And, a smooth and winsome way with the language.

By Marc on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 01:49 pm: Edit


Let me get this straight:

Gun talk is encouraged in the absinthe forum,
whereas any mention of drugs is taboo.

As a pacifist and a former hash-head, I guess
I should wander over to the NRA Forum where I belong.

By Marc on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 01:38 pm: Edit

mo chit

an al gore speechwriter...

That hurts.

Who is Jeff Probst?

By Marc on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 01:35 pm: Edit

Well Don it seems that only you are allowed to go off-topic, but...

It's Herb Caen, not Kaen, if you're referring to the San Francisco Chronicle journalist.

Brautigan's Trout Fishing In America, In Watermelon Sugar and A Confederate General In Big Sur are among my favorite novels. I wonder if he ever drank absinthe? His writing has a surrealist twist that would suggest he might be interested in the beverage. Of course, alcohol (along with depression) led to Brautigan killing himself.
I attended a reading that Brautigan gave in S.F.
in 1969. A tall gentle man, with a sweet smile.
His early writings will certainly outlast his later work. His last few books bordered on self-parody.

I recommend In Watermelon Sugar to anyone interested in post-beat,American surrealism.

By Mo Chit on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 01:24 pm: Edit

i think don's last few slurred reminiscinces
clearly underline my simple assertion some posts
back... alcohol IS indeed a drug

(and marc, for the record, you are as funny as an
al gore speechwriter, and seem at least as witty
as the legendary Jeff Probst)

riding that skytrain, I remain

Mo Chit

By Don Walsh on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 12:30 pm: Edit

PS to below:

Lest anyone think I was some uncool pig type: the badge was just a political thing, my uncle was the City Attorney, I was briefly (and in between my excursions out of country) a licensed private investigator, although I hat to admit it.

Just like in San Francisco, the Sherrif just runs the prison. His powers devolve from th Parish of Orleans as opposed to the Municipality of New Orleans -- two different political entities entirely.

Anyway Kallisti probably knows the former Sheriff of San Francisco who is now an Assemblyman -- Richard Honguisto. We used to get drunk together and listen to "I shot the Sherrif" -- apart from our professional ties we also had a mutual friend in Ward Dunham, the bartender at Enrico's (Broadway & Kearney, SF) and calligraphy teacher.

Ward used to divide his (professional bartending) time between NYC, N.O. and SF. He was on hand for the infamous MG-42 debacle on Bourbon Street. (Backpeddled like a true professional; Sgt Schulz couldn't have done better!)

Herb Kaen used to entertain millions with his tales (largely, made up) of Ward, 6'5". 350 lbs, throwing quadraplegics in the ice cream churn at Enrico Banducci's 'little' sidewalk cafe.

For those who just joined us, Enrico went away courtesy of IRS some time ago. but, his bar and restaurant was famous as the scene of one of the parts of "Bullitt" as well as a hangout of the Bay Area's literaiti, notably Richard Brautigan (he never liked me much.) There was also the
infamous Finnochios TV revue upstairs.

By Don Walsh on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 11:36 am: Edit

Oh, nitpick.

Jagermeister is a cretin drink.

Meaning drunk only by cretins.

A cretan drink is, whatever they drink on Crete.

Probably, but not necessarily, different.

Pls accept this small correction in the humble spirit in which it was intended.

By Don Walsh on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 11:30 am: Edit

Dear brO'ben

All points well taken. However, it was 25 years ago, I was not only a Class 3 but a Class 2 (Manuf) type, and also a deputy Orleans Parish Criminal Sheriff (personal staff of the Sheriff at the time) wth police powers. And even so I almost got in some shit for that stunt. It was about a week before mardi gras...a plainclothes team that didn't know me by face, got to know me real quick. I walked. With the MG-42.

As to berserkers: you may well be right. I claim no special expertise regarding antiquarian prebattle intoxicants.

You want to talk battle, write me privately or else come to Bangkok as my guest. maybe we have friends in common. SOF did an article about me in what was it? 1982. But let's not horrify the kiddies. Take it private.

By br0therben on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 08:25 am: Edit

Uhh, first off how did you bring your MG42 into the bar, as carrying firearms into such establishments is (I believe universally) illegal? Not that owning one is all that difficult (plenty of class 3 tags for old WWII subs and crew-served stuff out there), it's just that liquor-serving establishments are generally off-limits for firearms. Now, that may be different in New Orleans and such, and I'll bet cops turn a blind eye these days due to the popularity of concealed carry permits.

Personally I could care less as I often carry firearms into bars, and i don't even have a permit. Don't try that at home, kiddies...

ANYWAY, back on topic. I do like very cold liquors, like schnapps and such, but those are party drinks and they don't taste all that bad. I have no superficial attractions to German liquors (or even beers for that matter, as Belgian and English ales please me more), so I could do without. But maybe I'll try this aardvark crap or whatever you call it, since you seem to like fine spirits...

I think Absinthe would be just as good for going berserk, by the way, and just for the record I don't believe most berserks imbibed any kind of narcotic or hallucinagenic before going into battle. Drunk, maybe. High, I don't know. I have read many of the sagas and I don't think they mention elixers or such being consumed by berserks. Most of the scholars who make these claims find it hard to believe that people kill one another in the first place, which is why scholars shouldn't talk about war if they haven't at least been amongst warriors for a time. OOps, that was off topic as well...

By Don Walsh on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 07:47 am: Edit

Dear brO'ben

At last we return to discussing, if not Absinthe at least liquor.

I first tried Jagermeister at Fritzel's in New Orleans' French Quarter, back in the 70s when Dutch was still in the 600 block of Bourbon Street, i.e., before he moved to the 700 block and took over the site of another mostly-local bar I used to patronize. Dutch is a WWII veteran of the Wehrmacht, I am only assuming he is still alive, as I haven't looked in on his bar since sometime in the late 80s or early 90s. I once brought my MG-42 7.92mm belt fed machine gun to his bar and he just about came in his lederhosen.

ANYWAY Jagermeister is best drunk (if at all) chilled like Akvaavit till syrupy. It has the taste of kerosene and turpentine -- actually that is probably calmny on turps as Van Gogh drank that!

I always assumed that this drink had much to do with the renowned German national penchant (in unlamented times gone by! I hasten to add, I am not a basher of the Volk) for going bear-sark and invading neighboring countries.

Anyway if you want to consume chilled shots of exotic European spirits, you can do much better than Jagermeister. (Equally avoid the Steinhager and slivovitz.) Aalborg Akvaavit is not bad, esp near freezing, as it is simply a flavored vodka.

By br0therben on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 04:21 am: Edit

I don't think anyone has mentioned that Jag tastes like utter trash...

Another thing about jag - it seems to have some kind of reputation for being ultra hard-core or something, which I don't understand as it is not all THAT high in alcohol. At the bars I often see all the college boys suck that crap down and hoot and holler like it is some kind of feat. Yet no one orders any 151...

Jag is a cretan drink, IMHO

By Don Walsh on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 12:29 am: Edit

Dear Admin

Thanks! Nicely done.

By Admin on Thursday, June 29, 2000 - 12:17 am: Edit

I think ya'll should go scruff it out in the Delete Folder. Really, have a go.

My friend used to tell stories about the men in her family (back in the 50's or somesuch). At every single family gathering, the men would start drinking after dinner. By about midnight there would be much hollerin' and blusterin' which would eventually break out into flying fists and broken furniture. By 2am, they were the best of friends and hangin' all over eachother.

Its just like that.

Love you both, just waiting til the 2am part.

As for the topic allusions. Veering off topic somewhat is fine, especially when there is some at least vague correlation to absinthe and its status. Mentioning absinthe and opiates in the same breath is fine, as long as its to argue against the association. There are many lay persons out there who, understandably so, will make the erroneous assumption that they are similar (or it will be THC or whatever). Those of us who know better are here to educate, not bludgeon.

Granted, we've all answered like questions before, but as interest increases (and it is increasing still) there will be more curiosity seekers who really *do* want to know, and are eager to learn the "truth." If we shoot folks down for asking, they'll come away thinking we're just a bunch of jerks. Of course, this doesn't relate to only this thread, but the forum in general. The site keeps expanding with information because I get tired of personally answering questions :P but I don't want people to stop asking, or the forum to stop educating.

But its HARD to do this when ya'll are at eachother's throats all the time.

Oh, did I neglect traipsing through and sprinkling the green glitter again?

I need a crop duster. My birthday is coming up ... anyone?

By Marc on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 11:43 pm: Edit


Actually my post regarding our fictional past was an attempt (apparently a failed one)to lighten things up.

By Don Walsh on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 11:31 pm: Edit

No, Marc. not even a little funny.

Fortunately I have a thick skin not to mention an alternative lifestyle, albeit a het one.

However there are those in the world who aren't so tolerant. Remember the schmuck who was ambushed by his wannabe gay lover on one of those horrid US shock talk shows? Blew the fellow away, he did, and is now doing life in the slams. No doubt, getting in touch with his feminine side, despite all the fuss.

A reprehensible action, to be sure, but then, so is harassment and (attempted) humiliation. Isn't it?

I suggest we all return to discussing (or even bickering about) ABSINTHE and leave the Harry Highschool stuff to the adolescents. Kallisti is correct: the rest of this just bums everyone out. Except for you, apparently: you seem to be enjoying yourself.

By Don Walsh on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 11:23 pm: Edit

That wasn't poetry, that was grammar school doggerel. And I thought this Forum was for grownups. What a delusion!

Can't re-concile what was never conciled the first time.

By Marc on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 11:22 pm: Edit


not even a little funny?

By Ricky Ricola on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 09:30 pm: Edit

Don reconcile with Marc
Meursault spell your name right
Rimbaud Get your ass out of the closet
and ed...

Poetry is Dead

Drink Guiness
"It makes you stronger"

By Don Walsh on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 08:35 pm: Edit

Mersault, your post is there for all to read and your words are clear.

So, your denial makes little sense.

As for your ad-hominum assault on me, well, I will leave that for someone else to deal with.

By Don Walsh on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 08:29 pm: Edit

Marc is as always, neither funny nor on topic.

By 21st Century Rimbaud on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 08:06 pm: Edit

Hey Mersault,

Don't mean to be nitpicky, but shouldn't your name be spelled Meursault? That is, if it is indeed a reference to the main character and narrator of The Stranger by Albert Camus. I only picked up the mistake because I just finished re-reading the book. A classic!

~Rimbaud (who has been merely lurking lately because he wishes not to be part of all the hostility readily found on the forum as of late...)

By ed on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 07:33 pm: Edit

a poem by ed

Donny and Marco
Sittin' in a tree

First comes Louche
Then comes Wormwood
Then comes a drunkard
in a Green Fairy Neighborhood

By Mersault on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 02:37 pm: Edit

Alright Alright. I see I've started a little commotion here. For the record I never stated that Absinthe contained an opiate or that Thujone was an opiate. I merely repeated a rumor that I had overheard and wanted it verified that Jagermeister did not contain any form of opiate or other mind altering chemical. I find it insulting and resent Don's constant belligerent remarks on this forum. I understand that he is respected in this field and am anxious to try his product when introduced, however that does not excuse his tone and demeanor here. For the record I am not a absinthe bandwagoner looking for the next fashionable high, and would appreciate not being patronized as such.

By Marc on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 01:46 pm: Edit


Stop denying the intimacy we once shared as lovers. Yes, I know that it was the result of extreme absinthe intoxication that we fell into each others arms, but we must be proud of our past together. You are in denial. Admit you still love me. I still have the absinthe spoon you gave
me, the one engraved with your name and two hearts entwined. Shout this love that dare not speak it's name from the rooftops.

Love, Marc (Cuddles)

By Mr. Wormwood on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 12:06 pm: Edit

I saw the recipe to Jagermeister once and it contains no opiates. It contains mostly the same herbs which are pictured on a the bag of ricola cough drop (no wonder they taste alike).

It is also free of wormwood, although many other similar brands of bitters and herbal liquors like it are not.

As for strange ingrediants, it does contain a small amount of blood. I have forgotten what kind, it may have been stag blood, or bulls blood I can't remember.

I also remember reading they drink more of it per capita in New Orleans than any where else in the world.

By br0therben on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 10:08 am: Edit

Dear Rotundo,
Well, I think I understand your point(s) and I generally agree with them, especially about the illogical nature of raising alcohol upon a pedastal and proclaiming it "safe and acceptable." At the same time, I should point out that both Marc and Don probably agree on many points, as I have been reading their posts for the past few weeks and have noticed they just like to have at it. For example, I suspect that both believe absinthe laws are foolish, and that there are quality standards to consider when distilling Absinthe, etc. Likewise, I believe Don is not so pro-authority as he seems to be, and very possibly just the opposite; rather, he is simply opposed to comparing absinthe (basically a legal substance which has been outlawed due to poor science and popular fervor)to other narcotics, as I am, despite whether he thinks narcotics should be legal in some or all cases.
Don't get me wrong, I have an opinion and I posted it, which is why I got into this thread in the first place. Slightly off-topic threads should be cool, because hell I like to hear people ramble on about all kinds of stuff. Likewise, I believe many drugs should be legal which are not today; but then again, I am personally opposed to any law which seeks to mandate safety, or responsibility, with only a FEW exceptions (I am not referring to tax laws and such, as those are really just laws made to protect laws, completely different animals).
I think that is what all this is about, our opinions, and unfortunately some people "git to fightin' " as they say. No big deal. Sometimes I laugh outloud when I see the rage building up over so-and-sos opinion of the louching patterns of various absinthes, or whether or not Vintage Pernod (a substance only one or two of us has experienced)could ever be reproduced in the modern age. I really liked the war over pricing and availability, as suddenly all of these mysterious one-time hotmail users showed up lauding the virtues of this-or-that brand, and Betina actually posted, Kallisti started chucking faery dust around and I took cover. Then we all got chastised for being silly.
But then again all this is coming from a guy who likes Sebor, so be carefull. I will drink just about anything, you know.
Ooops, gotta go. I am looking at my new bottles of Deva and Lasala from across the room...

By Don Walsh on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 09:47 am: Edit

Dear Dora

Anyone who quotes Nietzche, can't be all bad! I mist keep an eye out for your other posts.



By Don Walsh on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 09:45 am: Edit

Against stupidity the gods themslves struggle in vain.

By Dora on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 09:28 am: Edit

There is always one exception to every rule or ideology in the world to wreck everything you have come to believe in.
I used to believe that which did not kill you made you stronger. And then along came marc. Enough said.

By Relish on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 08:28 am: Edit

Funny how alchohol can leave such a long lasting effect when changing someone into a bigger asshole.
"Shine on you crazy diamond"

By Captain Rotundo on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 08:27 am: Edit

Wow, I have just been scannign through this fine discussion board for a few days, while I wait for my first order of Absinthe to arrive, and I am astonished. I have never been on a forum with a more stuck up and silly peckingorder than this one. Why did being a fan of something (in this case Absinthe) come to mean that those snobbish enough to claim a little more knowledge about it can sit on their high horse and yell at everyone else ? Jeez, this is not a free speech issue, and this is also not about protecting absinthe, if you think write absinthe and opiate in the same sentence will ever lead to Schedule One classification of Absinthe you are a fool or an idiot. And furthermore this is a forum for fans of Absinthe or people looking for absinthe related discussion, thats all you can hope it too be, the admin can censor at will if (s)he likes, and maybe see fit to scratch drug related posts from the site, but to claim that we have to discuss this elsewhere is just stupid. Advertiseing it as an absinthe 'forum' means that people interrested in absinthe will come to discuss, and whether you like it or not Alcohol is a drug, and Alcohol is related to THC, and Heroin, and Nicotine, in the sence that they are all drugs regardless of legallity in some nation. That is enough connectivity to demand discussion. for two reasons:

A. It will give some of us a good idea of what the others like, for instance do most absinthe drinkers also like psychoactive drugs ?

B. For the arguement in absinthe's favour, maybe it will help point out blatent differences between absinthe and other drinks, thereby making the cas e to legallize absinthe, a far more benign substance if that is possible.

Besides isnt it ridiculus to call for the legallization of absinthe but unilaterally condemn other drugs, either you think the gov't outlawing drugs is an infringement on your freedom or you accept that the gov't has the right to protect us from ourselves, arguaing otherwise, that absinthe should be legal because its not 'as bad' as other drugs is silly and illogical, the majority decided that is was bad and made it illegal, either we accept the majorities ability to prevent us from doing things, or we dont.

By Don Walsh on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 07:17 am: Edit

Dear brOtherben

I share most if not all of your sentiments, and those who want to paint me as an 'authoritarian' or running dog of same, just don't know me at all. Maybe they have another agenda simmering...


By br0therben on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 06:09 am: Edit

Don and Marc,
Hmm, actually this debate goes a little deeper than personal vendetta and is actually quite thought-provoking. First off, I for one find "Absinthe" (or whatever Deva and Mari are considered now) to be a top-notch beverage which I enjoy primarily for its taste; on the other hand, the scarcity of the product certainly draws me toward it, more so than other "fine" spirits, including good scotch (yum). The secondary effects intrigue me, but I rarely notice them; NTL, in Marc's defense I must say that if I could experience the "thought producing" effect Hemingway and others mentioned (assuming it isn't just a mild buzz they are referring to), I'd certainly be interested.
But no, Absinthe is no narcotic and I cringe when people ask me "isn't it distilled with opium?" Actually, opium can be cheaper than Absinthe, and as I have said many times if you REALLY want such a substance it is readily available. Just not here.
On the other hand, I agree with Marc that tertiary issues do have a place in this forum. FWIW, this discussion group is much more on topic than some of those newsgroups, and though I enjoy the dedication I have observed here I must say a quick diversion is no big deal. Besides, any topic that points out the ludicrous nature of Absinthe laws is tolerable to me; likewise, I find the vast majority of laws in general to be a waste of paper. Now I am revealing my anti-authoritarian nature, so let's not go there.
See yall


By Don Walsh on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 04:16 am: Edit

You presume too much. How dare you make assumptions about my personal
motives and aspirations? You are not parent, therapist nor intimate of mine,
nor are you some guru or Svengali.

I have plenty enough outlets for my dark side. Thank you very much for
assuming, presuming I need any more! Pray you are not ever in a position to
learn more of my dark side. You wouldn't like it. Trust me!

My mystic side mostly lies dormant. I am saving it for my dotage.

Go project your own inner self upon someone else. And do not generalize
about why people are drawn to absinthe. MANY people find nothing to
associate absinthe with that is related to contemporary drug abuse. Many of
us are repulsed by attempts to draw such comparisons. Many of us are drawn
to its taste, its aesthetics, its history, its literary and artistic
connections. If I wanted to involve myself with an alcoholic beverage that
TRULY straddled both worlds I'd be into laudanum NOT absinthe, or I'd be
steeping cannabis in alcohol and making Green Dragon. Actually, as a well
schooled synthetic organic chemist -- if drugs were my thing I'd be off
designing new recreationals and not wasting my talent on old hat. Wouldn't
I? The fact is I ABHORE all of that and if I accepted your premise that
absinthe was inherently drug like I'd having NOTHING to do with it.

You are right about the great trouble and expense though.

In every other particular you are amazingly and spectacularly wrong and
wrong-thinking. As usual.

By Marc on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 03:25 am: Edit


It is inevitable that the subjects of drugs and absinthe will converge. People are drawn to absinthe in a way that they are not drawn to other alcoholic beverages. They come to absinthe expecting something magic, mystical, an alternative to the ordinary alcohol experience.
Try as you might to disassociate absinthe from drugs, it is the connection between the two that people find compelling. Is there a bourbon or gin forum as exotic, florid and intellectual as this
absinthe forum. Why does absinthe have this almost
erotic appeal? Why do we gather here, like supplicants before a mystic potion, to exchange
our formulas, experiences and dreams. Don, you are going to great expense and trouble to produce this rare and scandalous beverage. Why? Because it tastes good? Bullshit. It is the illicit nature of this drink and it's association with drugs that make it seductive. If absinthe were legal worldwide, this forum would probably not exist. And you, dear Don, would be seeking some other illicit elixir in which to project your
dark and mystic yearnings.

By Don Walsh on Wednesday, June 28, 2000 - 02:15 am: Edit

It's not a matter of a taboo. It's a matter of what hurts us all and what helps us all. Posts that are off topic are not appropriate on an Absinthe Forum are they? We don't discuss football, chess, the price of tea in China or spectacular tits on this Forum do we? Not usually. So the First Amendment argument really doesn't apply, as this is not a Any Subject Anything Goes Forum. It behooves us all to stay on topic. No one wants to be authoritarian and on this Forum no one can be save Kallisti. Hwoever I like to try to gently discourage any association of absinthe with 'controlled substances' whenever it happens (and I notice it) for the reasons I have stated often, and many others have agreed with.

In this instance someone quite erroneously characterized absinthe as an opiate. Not merely a 'drug' but an opiate. Hardest of the hard drugs. NOT true and not productive and not a positive thing to happen.. You don't think absinthe and heroin are kissing cousins, do you? Well, neither do I. Start concatonating the words 'absinthe' and 'opiate' and pretty soon our fave beverage will be on Schedule One.

I happen to agree with your comments regarding absinthe and its lack or relation to hallucinogens/psychedelics. Good on you for saying so.

It just may be that I believe in free speech more than you do. However, advocating free speech doesn't mean that its irresponsible abuse shouldn't be castigated -- it just means it shouldn't be curtailed by Government. I am not, last time I checked, anyone's frigging Government.

In short, I may disagree with what someone posts here, but I defend to the death their right to post it, especially if they post it somewhere, anywhere else.

By Marc on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 11:43 pm: Edit

It seems to me that an absinthe forum would be the one place where people would feel they could talk about anything. If there are subjects that are taboo in this forum then the administrator
should clarify what they are. In the meantime,
since when did freedom of speach take a backseat to an absinthe agenda?

I think the folks who post here are smart enough
to make their own decisions regarding the content
of their messages. At the point we have to repress our freedom to speak, then the "authoritarian assholes" have already won a significant battle, perhaps the most important one.

I will not submit to authoritarianism in the absinthe forum. Do all assholes look alike,
no matter what side they're on?

I do understand your concern Don. But, I think you worry too much about the drug issue. As people become more experienced drinking absinthe, I think they will discover that, aside from the alcohol, there's no comparison between absinthe and drugs. Anybody seeking a psychedelic or significant mind-altering effect from the green fairy, should look elsewhere.

By Don Walsh on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 09:45 pm: Edit

Anyone interested in the legitimization of absinthe, in the undoing of a century of calumny against a perfectly benign liqueur, will agree that any and all blurring of the distinctions between absinthe (and other alcoholic beverages) and illicit, illegal drugs, is highly counterproductive.

It plays into the hands of the powergrabbing authoritarian assholes.

It loses you a lot of sympathy with a lot of people the instant you mention DRUGS in any way shape or form.

People have been conditioned to react that way.

You want to fight the fight for decriminalization of cannabis, go join NORML. This is an ABSINTHE Forum, and is not about drugs.

You want my personal opinions on the War on Drugs? Write me privately, because this is NOT the place to discuss them.

Otherwise cut the trite timeworn "wow man, alcohol is a drug too and so are tobacco and coffee" line. That argument of moral equivalence vanished into irrelevance some time in the 1970s.

By Marc on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 07:20 pm: Edit

alcohol is a drug, and it's a lousy one.

People who drink and condemn drug use are hypocrites. I drink and I've done drugs. With the exception of cocaine, alcohol is the most destructive and addictive drug I've done. In recent years, I've managed to get my drinking under control and I enjoy it.

Pot, peyote and mushrooms are far more benign
than alcohol. Alcohol kills. I've never heard of anyone dying from marijuana, mescaline of psylicibyn. Psychedelics can be valuable tools in the search for one's self. Alcohol generally makes you just a bigger asshole than you already

By Chin Ho on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 04:35 pm: Edit

That's right achohol is a drug, nicotine is a drug, caffine is a drug... The only difference is these drugs are legal.

By mo chit on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 03:49 pm: Edit

a small rejoinder to bangkok don riding the new
subway to the kho san... asia musta got to you
don, because last time i checked, alcohol was
still considered a drug... liquor contains the
DRUG alcohol... like a joint contains the drug
THC... like the asian whorehouses contain the
underage asian whores...

since you are involved in producing absinthe, you
should probably look into that, (including alcohol
in the absinthe).. just a thought.

By Mersault on Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 11:16 am: Edit

I suppose that's that then.

By SeaRobin on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 07:38 pm: Edit

Chewing valerian root? Yuck !!! Just get the capsules. You can get them in any drug store and most grocery stores.

By Jack's Sleepy Time Story on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 07:24 pm: Edit

My doctor prescribed chewing valerian root for my sleep disorder. Didn't work and it tasted awful.
Then I found my power animal, the green fairy...

By Don on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 07:00 pm: Edit


Mersault, wormwood is not a 'mild opiate', neither is valerian. Absinthe contains no opiates, and never did.

Pls don't confuse a liquor with a drug.

By Zip Khadiffi on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Dude, just drop some acid.

By Admin on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 04:20 pm: Edit

/my understanding is that/ Jagermeister is made with Valerian Root, which indeed imparts an effect over and above that of the cough syrup like alcohol. I believe the government tried unsuccessfully to regulate it when it began increasing in popularity in the early 90's. /none of this can be proven and may all be myth acquired through barstool osmosis/

Valerian root is most common in relaxing teas and herbal remedies.

I like it much, and it amused me to no end that many wee markets (corner stores, or what have you) in the French Quarter dispense it by the shot over the counter. Best served chilled.

By Fredie on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 03:27 pm: Edit

Ted on this one I hold the expertise
and about 50,000 Die Toten Hosen fans
@ the Rock am Ring festival would disagree
with you.
DTH is the biggest band in Germany and a national treasure.(my wifes German) and one of their most famous songs is called Zehn Kleine Jagermeister
(10 little Jagermeisters)
"all for one and one for all"

By Fredie on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Eine fur alle! Alle fur eine!

By tabreaux on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 02:52 pm: Edit

A vicious rumor, and one that is not new at that. In Germany, Jagermeister is considered an 'old folks' drink.

By Mersault on Monday, June 26, 2000 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Hello all once again, Just finished my first bottle of Mari, a little disappointed after I read the test results on the forum...Oh well it was tasty anyhow. Well here's the thing. A friend on mine an I were talking about absinthe and he mentioned that the domestic version of Jagermeister contained a different blend of herbs than the version exported to the US. He also mentioned that the domestic or German blend contained trace amounts of some form of opiate....Hmmmm can anyone shed some light on this? It seems that since I have never seen a German Absinthe that it would be unlikely that a Jagermeister contained wormwood or any other mild opiate.

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