|By Chrysippvs on Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 01:27 pm: Edit|
I have yet to see one account form any source of absinthe causing any form of hallucination in any respect...the only people I read that kind of thing from are Legrain and Schmidt, and I guess for whatever reason people belevied it. In any chance..anyone that would take the likes of Oscar Wilde or Authur Rimbaud literally is probably as crazy as they were, but without the charm of course.
|By Midas on Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 08:48 am: Edit|
Also, if I remember correctly, isn't it true that Wilde never even stated he hallucinated tulips in the first place? In the passage I read all he says is that as he walked, he felt as though tulips were brushing against his legs.
That may be a tactile hallucination, or it may be a fanciful way of saying "I was drinking for hours, and by the end I was totally obliterated".
|By Artemis on Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 07:41 am: Edit|
Very well put by JKK and Absinthedrinker. I'm not in favor of taking poets too literally, else I would believe every word in the Bible is the word of God!!! It's just that if we're going to get inside the head of a poet, I think we must have something in common with him other than our favorite tipple, eh? And if Ted, Justin, et. al. are to be believed (and I believe them) we don't even have THAT in common with Wilde. At least, most of us don't. Ted and Don may change that soon.
|By Absinthedrinker on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 11:44 pm: Edit|
I agree. We are in danger of interpreting things too literally. Throughout the world people have claimed that their local favorite brew endowed them with special properties, whether it be bravery, amourousness or loquaciousness, we drink for 'secondary' effects, never to get blind drunk. It seems reasonable that a creative, and, in some cases, unstable bunch such as the Belle Époque artists and poets would claim rather mystical properties for their favourite tipple.
|By Jkk on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 11:26 pm: Edit|
I don't think Wilde was actually saying absinthe
makes you see tulips. It makes you aware of
details, and if you stare at one place long
enough, you start to go into a bit of a trance.
Now, if you continue with that trance and that
staring, whether it's at the louche in front of
you--as Dowson described--or at the sidewalk--as
Wilde was doing, it also seems to dissolve or
become a blank. At that point, with a strong
imagination, you can "will" images to appear
before you, whether tigers, let's say, for Dowson
or tulips for Wilde.
I suppose the absinthe trance is something like
what one feels in a hypnotic state or when
engaging in some forms of meditation or yoga. The
absinthe effect, as far as I can judge, is very
mild compared to that of other drugs. Rimbaud,
for example STARTED with absinthe, and moved on to
hashish, which he definitely thought of as
Anyway, I don't think you should attack Wilde. He
never claimed that absinthe caused all sorts of
mad visions. I am sure he would agree that it is
simply mildly hypnotic. What you do with your
trance is your own business. He was a poet, and
wanted to get the most out of it that he could.
|By Artemis on Monday, October 30, 2000 - 08:06 am: Edit|
"First, if I have somehow insulted anyone who contributed to the FAQ by writing up my first
experiences with Deva, I humbly beg your pardon."
I very much doubt Rockstroh insulted anyone, certainly not me. I took off on one phrase in his original post, and posted a rant, then amplified the rant. It was ranting, that's all, a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, etc. I apologize to Rockstroh and anyone else I might have offended thereby. As to the dead Irishman, I have been as full of shit as he, I'm not afraid to admit, but not on this occasion. The FAQ is not holy nor a Grail, but it's the closest thing to the truth about absinthe anybody is going to find. If I had a point at all, that was it.
|By Anatomist1 on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 10:08 pm: Edit|
Don't sweat it. I found your revelations completely unoffensive. You are unfamiliar with the information that frequents these pages, and it would be unreasonable to expect you to scour the voluminous archives. As a member's wife said before, the Forum is a nest of vipers. Internet relations, in general, are much like traffic relations: the insularity of distance and relative anonymity promotes exaggerated behavior. Unfortunately, it's rare to see exaggerated benevolence... more frequently people seize the advantage to debut their ugly sides. Here's hoping that such revelations are therapeutic, and not just the vangard of a society of unprecedented assholes...
What kind of writing do you do anyway?
|By Rockstroh on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 11:05 am: Edit|
First, if I have somehow insulted anyone who contributed to the FAQ by writing up my first experiences with Deva, I humbly beg your pardon.
Look, I know how to be objective. As someone who was trained as a chemist and now works as a journalist, I know objectivity and I also know you don't believe something just because you read it once or twice or hope that it will be true -- no offense to the Holy Absinthe FAQ of the Chapel Perilous. This is a forum where we, allegedly, share information and experiences, and I shared mine. I hope it was of some value to those of us who are less experienced than some of the others in the forum.
I enjoyed the Deva. I'll order some more. It was light and tasty and now I know about the secondary effects. There were no hallucinations nor were any expected. I didn't hear any voices and I'm glad about that. I did experience some extremely mild visual distortions which were limited to flickering lights at the periphery. Even Spirits Corner was great, delivering in less than two weeks (though they informed me today that the price of Mari Mayans is going up twelve percent).
Absinthe good, irrational anger bad. Have a glass of Deva and relax.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 10:46 am: Edit|
"...But I'll take that over dead Irish poets who were full of shit in the first place...",
Pardon us Artemis maybe we should get permission from the forum elite, (who are of course never full of shit) before we discuss such topics.
|By Timk on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 02:06 am: Edit|
"There were no hallucinations (I WANN'T EXPECTING ANY, REALLY)"
DOES THIS SOUND ANYTHING LIKE YOU DESCRIBE???? "They read the FAQ but still come in talking about how they were disappointed that their experience was not like that of Oscar Wilde"
No, Read his or her's post again
|By Artemis on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 01:55 am: Edit|
And in case my point has gone over some heads again, I just noticed that Rockstroh said he read the FAQ. I find it perverse, if not insulting to the people who contributed to the FAQ, that people read the FAQ, but don't believe it. They read the FAQ but still come in talking about how they were disappointed that their experience was not like that of Oscar Wilde. It's like telling the people who put the FAQ together that they're dishonest or don't know what they're talking about. We have a LIVING frame of reference put together by LIVING people here. It's true they are sometimes arrogant, or pissed off, or hard on newbies, or get tired of answering the same questions or pointing out the same errors. But I'll take that over dead Irish poets who were full of shit in the first place.
|By Artemis on Friday, October 27, 2000 - 01:35 am: Edit|
"What the hell are you trying to do"
Tell people the truth about absinthe. My remark about "hammering" was tongue-in-cheek. Newbies have been hammered a lot worse, but rarely by me. As usual, the individual I supposedly "bashed" didn't need any kneejerk backup - he understood the head with wings, so I apparently accomplished what I was trying to do.
Anybody coming in here with any pretense at all of giving an objective account of an absinthe experience needs to drop that tired, no, make that dead, fin de siecle bullshit about poppies springing out of the floor.
And you? What are *you trying to do? Correct my "attitude"? Was your mission accomplished? I'll give you three guesses, and the first two don't count.
|By Marcellin on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 09:12 pm: Edit|
You speak such truth, it is rough being a newbie on this forum.
|By Malhomme on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 12:49 pm: Edit|
Is your first name John? (have thought I might know you)
P.S. I for one understood you the first time. I also got picked-on the first time I posted here and I've been drinking abs for nearly 10 years. There's some sort of "everyone's a newbie but me" sort of b.s. that goes on here. It's not the best thing about this list at all.
|By Rockstroh on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 11:30 am: Edit|
When in hell did I say anything about being disappointed with Deva? I was trying to report with objectivity on absinthe's celebrated "secondary effects" since the flavor (which is wonderful) had been pretty much covered.
I did read the FAQ. As I said, I expected no hallucinations and I sure wasn't expecting any green fairy to fly out of my ass. I wanted to write up something on Deva as an objective, first-time drinker. There is all this talk about absinthe's effect as being subjective. This was my subjective-objective report (if you can follow that). The "head with wings" is a pretty close analogy.
Anyway, those were my impressions. And I still smell anise.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 10:36 am: Edit|
Unlike Acid monkeys may not fly out of your arse and the effects are also nothing at all like smoking a joint but the secondary effects of absinthe do exist. They must be caused by something else in the absinthe other than alcohol. These effects are different and you'll not get them from any other type of booze. After a few glasses, as well as the light headed effect, I often get a sort of very subtle misty haze forming in front of my eyes. This is not the result of alcohol, I've put this down to the thujone, but if its not due to thujone it is due to some mild mind altering substance, whatever that may be.
|By Timk on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 02:07 am: Edit|
"The walls didn't move and the carpet didn't grow. There were no hallucinations (I wasn't expecting any, really) but there was that certain other state besides being drunk. "
I really do not think that after this well thaught out reasonable statement, any of these comments were at all reasonable
"Newbies, please read the FAQ. It will tell you, in the words of LIVING PEOPLE (we of the forum) what you can expect to experience with the absinthe you can expect to obtain today. "
"How many times must someone come in here and announce that much to his disappointment, monkees did not fly out of his arse, ..."
What the hell are you trying to do, with that sort of attitude you are going to dissuade new members from posting on the forum for fear of asking a question which may, in someones eyes be 'stupid' and them a 'bashing'from the more inconsiderate members of the forum.
Dont knock anyone for wanting to learn or posting their feelings on Absinthe, this is what the forum is for
|By Artemis on Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 01:34 am: Edit|
How many times must someone come in here and announce that much to his disappointment, monkees did not fly out of his arse, only to have someone such as me (or even ruder) hammer them, or to have Ted (politely as usual) patiently explain to them that monkees (fairies) will NOT fly out of yer arse.
Admittedly, Ted did an even better job than usual this time. The personal hygiene aspect had not occurred to me (EEEK!! You REEK of absinthe!).
The most accurate account I've seen of what absinthe does to you (or at least to me) is contained in the flyer that Bettina provides with some of the stuff she purveys. Unfortunately, she attributes the effects to thujone and in my opinion, makes a couple of other claims about the effects of certain components on each other that can't be supported. Absinthe lends a clear-headed drunk, folks. That's what it does. That's ALL it does. And when you get your hands on some absinthe with increased thujone, Rockstroh, that's ALL it's going to do. Head with wings. Credit to Morphine. The band, not the drug.
Still, as Kallisti has pointed out, this "I'm disappointed in absinthe" post had more value than the usual.
Newbies, please read the FAQ. It will tell you, in the words of LIVING PEOPLE (we of the forum) what you can expect to experience with the absinthe you can expect to obtain today. It doesn't matter what happened to Van Gogh; he's dead and you probably can't paint anyway. And I've had absinthe with mass quantities of thujone, okay? It was NOT any different from absinthe distributed in the EU, so if you're waiting for the next great thing, you're going to be waiting a long time. As always, your results may vary. But I doubt it.
|By Admin on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 02:13 pm: Edit|
view first message. I just discovered I can edit the content of messages.
|By Tabreaux on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 12:00 pm: Edit|
To be candid but brief:
The modern conception of what absinthe was and what it is supposed to be is 'FUBAR'.
Absinthe was a stimulating, refreshing beverage which was beneficial to the digestive system. In the days of unpasteurized dairy products, no cold storage, questionable food quality, etc., this likely had some real value. Likewise, in the days before toothpaste, absinthe was a very refreshing alternative to the staples of the day (wine, brandy, beer, etc.). Is it any wonder this pleasant anise-flavored drink was so popular? I'd rather have the taste of anise lingering in my mouth than several days worth of red wine, beer, and brandy.
The drink became fashionable and popular. The poets of the day romanticized the drink with figurative language, which in the modern day, has unfortunately been taken too literally. This distortion has been exacerbated by those seeking to gain wealth by promoting the brands of 'absinth' they sell as an aphrodisiac, hallucinogen, or by attributing other drug-like qualities to it, and playing upon the figurative language of dead poets. The real drink is a very clean, wonderful beverage, and ironically, the modern counterparts to same drink that the poets romanticized so well are largely different if not inferior.
What does all this mean? It means that contrary to popular myth, don't expect to have green fairies flying out of your arse.
|By Bob_chong on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 11:38 am: Edit|
Kallisti deleted the last such thread. Perhaps this one will go that way, too. Or Rockstroh could go into his profile and edit out that phrase (the one in quotes).
|By Perruche_verte on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 11:21 am: Edit|
Oh jesus. Thanks for the great story, but could we please not make any further reference to the shipping methods and labelling of certain products?
|By Rockstroh on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 10:27 am: Edit|
The shipment of ****DELETED FER YER PROTECTION**** arrived over the weekend. The first night I had two glasses of Deva with no real secondary effects, although there was a feeling of otherness.
The next night I had five glasses. I was drunk but not much else. I did feel a slight feeling of being shifted to one side while the world works on another, but I was too drunk to pay any real attention to it. No hangover, just a powerful thirst in the morning.
Finally, last night I mixed it up with the Deva and the Mari Mayans. Interesting. Someone said it's comparable a first time marijuana smoker's experience -- no real effect until the second or third time. But still, it was mild enough for me to wonder if it was just a placebo. My fiancée, on the other hand, had half a glass of MM and reported feeling "loopy."
I have read reports in this forum and elsewhere about the thujone content of modern absinthe being ten parts per million whereas the absinthe of legend is around 225 parts per million. They say thujone may or may not be the active ingredient in absinthe but I have had five glasses at this point and I am drunk and not much else. I was hoping to get an idea of what Hemingway and Picasso and Degas and all the other bohemians of the early 20th century found so compelling about absinthe. Granted, there seems to be a certain creative effect. I'm in the middle of a Creative Project and there is a sudden burst of creativity. It may be placebo. Am currently trying to gauge whether I write any more strongly now than when normally drunk on whiskey or wine.
The walls didn't move and the carpet didn't grow. There were no hallucinations (I wasn't expecting any, really) but there was that certain other state besides being drunk. It was very mild, like a teasing promise of something I won't ever see unless someone develops and markets the absinthe of old or I set up a still and start experimenting.
My friends refused to drink it with me. One developed a sudden irrational fear of the drink and the others said it tasted too much like Nyquil.
The really weird thing is that all day at work, I kept smelling anise.
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