Archive through October 8, 2000

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: Topics Archived Thru Dec 2000:After Hours:Archive through October 8, 2000
By Petermarc on Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 03:27 am: Edit

marc-
i'm not a collector (my french wife wouldn't
understand or approve, whipcrack sound ;-))but i
see these postcards all the time and could justify it by saying it is a part of absinthe history (which i'm sure it is) if you need help finding something, e-mail me.

By Marc on Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 03:08 am: Edit

I am a collector of vintage French pornographic postcards. Any other collectors out there?

By Marc on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Richard Farnsworth killed himself today. Suicide by shotgun. He was a wonderful actor. His last performance in David Lynch's THE STRAIGHT STORY was extraordinary.
He was 80 and suffering from cancer.

By Wormwood on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 04:37 am: Edit

As to the post about Marc Chapman, I read in the paper he actually had the balls to say "If John Lennon was still alive he would forgive me and let me be parolled." I guess its a just damn shame he went and shot the only person in the world who would have let him out of jail.

As to Yoko Ono not sharing John Lennons stuff with his other son Julian and Julian not liking her well thats just human nature. Yoko like most wives out there don't shower the ex-wife's kids with gifts, and can sometimes hate and resent the other kids. Julian feels robbed because he was. If John Lennon had been killed before he married Yoko or if he never remarried Julian would have inherited 100s of millions of dollars. Figurativly and literally he was screwed out of alot of money.

By Anatomist1 on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 03:23 am: Edit

Marc,

I've practically worn out my copies of 'Acadie' and 'For The Beauty of Winona'. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the numerous ambient recordings he's done with Eno and friends. The reason I brought them up is, thus far, I would probably prefer many of them to the new Radiohead CD. If you like Lanois, I'm assuming you have Emmylou Harris -- 'Wrecking Ball'?

Also, since this thread is supposed to be about artists and inspiration and all... I actually find powerful inspiration in a TV show, of all things. It's called 'Friends'... just kidding... actually, it's called 'Inside the Actor's Studio', and it's on Bravo network. It's basically just a stuffy professor interviewing big-time screen actors in front of a bunch of drama students. Lipton, the interviewer, asks pretty sharp questions and mostly just stays out of the way. I have often been surprised by actors that I had never thought much about. And, when someone like Sean Penn or Meryl Streep is up there, it's breathtaking. This show regularly moves me to tears. Next sunday, Robert fucking DeNiro is on! The new shows air on Sunday nights, and reruns at various times during the week. Use the search on www.clicktv.com to zero in.

K.

By Marc on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 02:35 am: Edit

anatomist

tuneless Lanois songs. Are we talking Daniel Lanois? If so, you're nuts. Lanois is a songwriter
of extraordinary depth, melodic and heartfelt.

By Anatomist1 on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 02:15 am: Edit

Many of Lennon's tunes have added a beautiful, serene aura of perfection on important moments of my life... a sense that things are in the right place, and an impetus to realize it. I must say that the slowed down version of "Across the Universe" (the version on Let it Be) is one of the most beautifully euphoric songs I have ever heard. I agree with Billynorm that "Plastic Ono Band" is the best of his solo efforts: raw and Dylanesque. From my point of view, he had an unfortunate preoccupation with rockabilly-style which wrecked a lot of his later music.

Look Billynorm, and anyone who likes "Plastic Ono Band", you have to go out and get "Heartbreaker" by Ryan Adams. I know I sound like a paid publicist, but this is the rawest, most stripped down, sincere collection of achingly beautiful songs I've heard in forever. I'd pay five times the price just to hear the duet with Emmylou Harris once, and I could say the same for at least four other songs on the album. He has a talent for orchestrating vocal harmonies that I have not heard before. Don't ask questions, just buy it.

Also, regarding Radiohead's new disc... I've only slogged through it once, and I have yet to be impressed. If I want tuneless ambience, there are ridiculous quantities of Eno/Lanois recordings to be had. Where are the songs?

K.

K.

By Marc on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 01:21 am: Edit

John Lennon was a phenomenal artist, but also just a man. He was fucked -up, selfish, neurotic etc. He also wrote some of the most beautifull songs ever put to vinyl. And for that I forgive him his faults. In the end, a man or woman should be judged by their work, by their art, by what lasts. Lennon's songs will outlast the limitations of his flawed humanity. I can't think of any great artist that wasn't a bit of an asshole. It is often insanity and pain that informs an artist's brilliance. I prefer a brilliant asshole to a dull, well-adjusted nice guy. Nice guys always finish last for reason. They're afraid to risk being an asshole. I'm an asshole and proud of it.

By Marc on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 01:11 am: Edit

The forums at The New York Times are really user friendly. Could someone post a link to The Times Film Forum for kallisti to look at. I don't know how to do it. The NY Times forums are almost like a chat room.

By Billynorm on Friday, October 06, 2000 - 12:29 am: Edit

Kevin,

My opinion of John Lennon has diminished considerably over the years & my opinion of Yoko has never been too high anyway. Lennon's best post-Beatles work was his first solo album & a few singles (which doesn't include "Starting Over," which is only a re-working of "Don't Worry Baby" by the Beach Boys). When I first read the Arthur Janov era Rolling Stone interview 30 years ago, I was impressed by its candor. But when I read it now, I think it's merely self-serving bullshit, but maybe that's the cynicism that comes with old age talking! About 15 years ago, Paul McCartney found himself in hot water for saying Lennon could be a real bastard at times. After a horrific backlash to that statement, Macca said Lennon wasn't a saint, just human. (How do you destroy an iconoclast? Make an idol of him!)

Julian & Yoko have never liked each other & for good reasons. (Supposedly, Julian called her "Yokey Pokey!")

(God, I love this thread, but I feel like I'm journeying to the center of the Earth just to post something!)

By Black_rabbit on Thursday, October 05, 2000 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Midas,

yes I have. That album does rock... I got a CD at a show with three tracks on it (it's mostly clear, in fact, with just a little donut of silver near the middle) and those bathroom-sign people holding spears and shields. I think it is called 'Zulu You.' Very nice stuff on there too. I am hoping that the guitarist and bassist from that tour will work with them as a permanent part of the Creatures though... if it

By Anatomist1 on Thursday, October 05, 2000 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Actually, he was forced to BUY some of it that way, after Yoko had hocked it. I think it's interesting when the humanity behind the hero is revealed. Here was Lennon, writing and singing about love and understanding, staging stunts about world peace... and in the background there's his ex-wife who cheated on epically and unrepentantly, and a son that he practically disowned. If you look at Rubber Soul, made during his first marriage, he's got 2 songs bragging about his own adultery, and one which is a literal death threat to his wife if she attempts any of the same. Given his own extensive wailing about how devastating it was to him to lose his mother at a young age, it seems particularly odd that he ignored Julian so. Then here comes Yoko, snubbing by proxy from beyond the grave. Now look at him, he's got a California tan and writes music so bland that he can't get anyone to listen to it. Oh the humanity!

K.

By Bob_chong on Thursday, October 05, 2000 - 10:42 am: Edit

Maybe Yoko is worried that he'll hock it on eBay.

j/k


BC

By Anatomist1 on Thursday, October 05, 2000 - 10:29 am: Edit

Billynorm,

Have you studied much Lennon biographical information? I'm just wondering because the info I've been hearing lately makes Yoko, in particular, look pretty nasty: kind of reptillian. What could be the justification for not letting Julian, a musician, have one single scrap of his father's stuff -- no instruments, no sheet music, nothing? I'm not saying this has anything to do with Lennon's death, or his music. Just puerile curiosity.

K.

By Billynorm on Thursday, October 05, 2000 - 09:46 am: Edit

I feel as though I'm betraying John Lennon every time I think of Mark David Chapman's name. He doesn't deserve any measure of fame at all. I wish he would die an obscure, forgotten & lonely death.

By Midas on Thursday, October 05, 2000 - 08:18 am: Edit

Oh, and on a completely different topic, I'm currently reading Neal Stephenson's 'The Diamond Age'. I hated 'Snowcrash'. He had his tongue planted firmly in his cheek throughout the whole novel, which is all well and good, but I like my cyber a little more serious. I guess I overdosed on William Gibson when I was a teenager. I think it coloured my perspective of the genre, but I'm loving this one. It's great for anyone interested in 19th C. social politics, fashion and morality, as I am. (he's transported all this into the late 21st C. through a burb clave in Shanghai occupied by 'neo-Victorians', or'Vickys', as they're referred to.) Bustles, top hats, and nanotechnology. Very cute.
- Robert.

By Midas on Thursday, October 05, 2000 - 08:00 am: Edit

Black rabbit, have you heard the track "Exterminating Angel" from the Anima Animus album? It's Siouxsie's new song-to-vent-through. Very nasty in a fablique way. In fact the whole album rocks.
-Robert.

By Bob_chong on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Don:

I lived there from 1988-1993 as an undergrad at Tulane. Great city to do the college experience, since I got to double-dip (i.e., college plus N.O. all at once).

BC

By Don_walsh on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 02:38 pm: Edit

Dear Bob

You lived in N.O.? My home town. I was there 1951-82. Then DC/No.Va. till '89, then Bangkok.

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 01:54 pm: Edit

I heard that, at the hearing, Chapman actually had the gall to suggest that Lennon would have wanted him freed, if he were still alive...

K.

By Black_rabbit on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Yeah Siouxsie still rocks! I saw the Creatures twice... very good shows. Not like the Banshees, but just as good, and it is great that they are moving in a different direction than anybody else I've heard.

By Petermarc on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 12:00 pm: Edit

morriganlefey-
i think i better get back in bed---

amazing, no one ever talks about this band
i was starting to think i was the only person
who had really been moved by soul mining (let alone, who had heard it)
i saw them here in paris a couple of months ago
some dramatic changes in style (hard 9-inchnails type stuff, but cooled down by matt johnson's reflective and darkly moving numbers) the old synth disappeared,along with the 80's, but very enjoyable...bought the new CD which i like, but nothing replaces the original...

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 11:27 am: Edit

Oh, on a totally unrelated, but I think still appreciated, topic -

John Lennon's killer, Mark David Chapman, was denied parol from Attica yesterday...in case anyone didn't already know.

All is right in the world (well, at least THAT is).

-M

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 11:21 am: Edit

Petermarc -

The The (stupid name for an incredible band!)holds an eternal place in my heart & record collection. "Soul Mining" is excellent...every single track. (My profile on this forum borrows a lyric from that album).

The band is actually touring again currently. They were in San Francisco about a month ago.

- Morrigan

By Fellraven on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 10:29 am: Edit

It looks like a number of us have been into the trial chat room only to find no-one else there. If this is going to work, we are going to need to agree some times when a few folks can get together.

With a 5-hour time gap, the UK can talk to the East Coast without too many difficulties; I assume the West Coast can talk to Oz/the Far East (even if on different dates!).

I will try to get on line for an hour at around 11pm UK time tonight (6pm EST). Anyone care to join me?

By Tabreaux on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 10:07 am: Edit

Yeah, I used to like that track "Dogs of War, Lust, or something......."

By Petermarc on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 10:03 am: Edit

has anyone ever heard of or heard The The?

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 09:37 am: Edit

Midas,

from DOUGHNUT HOLE:

"Carports to steer
on a hem that has faultered.
Two sons too many
too many bullfights.
Yes.

You've been wasting all my time
this time
I guess I never learned to take
And if I'm hanging on to your horseshit hide
Maybe I'm way beyond the pale."

By Midas on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 09:10 am: Edit

Black rabbit, I'm glad to hear someone mention Gary Numan! " Are Friends Electric" is one of my favourite tracks ever. It's got the textbook New Romantic sound, and title for that matter, yet still manages to stir me like Flock of Seagulls, New Order, Visage, and other synth/pop artists never did. His track "Stormtrooper In Drag" is fabulous as well. Unfortunately, gravity and pork pies have not been kind to Gary over the last several years, but he's still an icon. Siouxsie, however, still looks and sounds divine.
Anatomist, go buy Y Kant Tori Read. It's pure kitsch, but it is truly worth your $$$, even for that reason alone. Think 80's pop. Think teased, frosted hair. Think song titles like "Heart Attack At 23", "Cool On Your Island" and "Fayth".
Also, when I mentioned "Flying Dutchman" in my last post, I meant "Honey". Sorry, several glasses of our favourite beverage will impare your recall capabilities.
Well, after Robert's Guide To Retro, we return you to your normal programming...
-Robert.

By Bob_chong on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 08:36 am: Edit

Thanks, Don. Enjoyed the anectdote about Louisiana politics, too. That's one of the few things I miss about living in N.O.: the political process was a heckuva lot more colorful than I've found elsewhere.

Like the time my college buddy voted twice in the same election...at two different precincts under two different names. He now works in Washington, and I truly hope that he trots out that story after a few stiff drinks.

BC

By Don_walsh on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 08:02 am: Edit

Bob,

The phrase refers to the death rate of Chinese workers on the railroad construction gangs -- specifically those employed in drilling holes for and planting, dynamite charges...often the railroads didn't allow enough time for them to get clear before setting off the charges. The phrase came to mean: no chance at all. The rationale was, hey, time is money, and there's plenty more Chinese out there to fill in the vacancies.

In modern times my favorite usage of this was when Harry Lee (Chinese not related to Robert E.) was running against the then incumbent Sheriff of Jefferson parish (La.) Alwyn Cronvich. When a reporter asked Lee, a former Assistant US Attorney, how he rated the upcoming vote, Harry said "I don't have a Chinaman's chance."

He won in a landslide.

By Lordhobgoblin on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 03:41 am: Edit

Anatomist says "..There's an incredibly narrow mindset... It equates life with money, and stuff with freedom, and a roster of posessions with personal value. Liberty isn't getting more stuff, especially when it comes at the price of longer and longer workweeks and less vacation..."

I entirely agree with this, neither Democrats or Republicans are worthy of your vote.

Rather than encouraging individualism, Western Society stiffles individualism. It forces most of us out of necessity to spend long hours in mundane jobs, earning money for those that exploit us. It puts a monetary value on the relationships between human beings and turns our very senses into commodities that can be bought or sold. How can we be free self-fashioned individuals under these conditions?

We can only be true, free individuals if, (like "artists") we choose to work without the goads of physical necessity. A system which commoditises our very senses and places a monetary value on our relationships with each other can never permit us to become true individuals.

Don't waste your time voting for either Republicans or Democrats. Voting for either is like a slave voting for one owner rather than another.

Hobgoblin

By Don_walsh on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 02:16 am: Edit

Actually it is William F.Buckley who is leading the charge from the right, for legalization of drugs and an end to the 'War' on them. Last time I looked, Bill Buckley was still a Republican...

Buckley still commands the attention of many many thinking republicans, Goldwater republicans like myself, not the lockstep christian coalition types, who represent a tiny minority in the party although a very vocal one.

Buckley has seen the futility of the antidrug campaign, seen its cost to us all in loss of civil liberties and privacy, seen the bloated prison populations and the cost to society to maintain them, and logic led him to his position. I don't think it is an easy or natural position for him. But it is a courageous one, and one which will eventually predominate. And when it does the leadership will be from the GOP.

By Artemis on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 02:03 am: Edit

"And Artemis, I still stand by the original intent of my Pilsner Urquell post (which was to point out cost vs. Pabst or some such nonsense)."

I thought you were using P.U. (well acronymed) as a surrogate for "good beer". I know exactly what's in it and the other beer you mentioned. My point was that P.U. is flawed - it ain't called diacetylator for nothing. I don't agree there are no parallels between beer and absinthe, but you are right about training the palate. I've been to just about every beer tasting in this country and at one time had tasted just about every beer (they've multiplied too fast to keep up with now), but that just doesn't prepare you to distinguish hyssop from fennel, etc. Well, we'll have fun marking a new trail of sensory delight eh?

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 10:13 pm: Edit

Bob,

I was referring to absinthe. Nobody's throwing people in prison for it yet, but just wait until a few more Nixons and Reagans wade through. Most Republicans would vote us into incarceration in a hearbeat.

K.

By Bob_chong on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Anatomist:

Actually, I gave up illegal drugs many, many years ago, so your question is moot. I believe illegal drugs should remain so: they are powerful substances that should be obtainable only on the black market. As for the way the criminal justice system deals with users, well, that is another story (and we're surely in agreement there). However, I will say this: any illegal activity is a high-stakes game in which the participants must know the rules of the game. One (admitted lame) example: when I am pulled over for traffic violations, I immediately fess up to what I did wrong rather than make excuses or fight it. I haven't gotten a ticket since.

Now I am really rambling. Sorry.

BC

By Bob_chong on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 09:35 pm: Edit

Anatomist:

I am not sure what you mean with the daughter bit, but your assessment of Nader leads me to believe that your decision to support him is more of a "Nader? He sounds cool" stance rather than having read his positions.

Some select positions from the man himself:
Health care is a universal human right.
Recast health care in a non-profit mode.
Make medicines affordable in Third World.
Social insurance is government at its noblest.
Social Security privatization replaces certainty with risk.
Limit executive salaries & perks.
Retail malls siphon off business from central cities.
Role of government is to counteract power of corporations.
Public election financing, with free TV & radio time/No private money in public campaigns.
Lawyers & victims need unlimited contingency fees.
Regulatory agencies are needed to fight corporate crime.
Spend surplus on public works & infrastructure.

Spend, spend, spend. Regulate, regulate, regulate.

Yeah, you're right--he's quite the libertarian.

BC

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 09:22 pm: Edit

One more thought for Bob before we take it to THE ARENA.

Answer me this, Mr. Libertarian: out of these three - George, Al, and Ralph - which one would be in favor of keeping an illegal drug user like yourself out of prison?

K.

By Marc on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 09:14 pm: Edit

I thought Bush came off very poorly in tonight's debate. He's a jug-earred little weasel with nothing much to say. He didn't embarrass himself but he certainly is not a very compelling thinker or speaker. Not presidential material. A mouth-breather.

Yeah, this thread has veered into less-inspired areas than I had hoped for. Let's get back to talkin' art.

Are we making any progress on that chat site?

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Well, I guess if Nader has anything to do with a "nanny-state" and is "crap", I must've been totally mistaken about him. Perhaps he has an ugly daughter you could post a picture of... then we'd all be convinced.

I would say I'm a die-hard libertarian when it comes to people's social lives. For someone in my income range, being an economic libertarian would be like reporting to Microsoft or Time-Warner for reprogramming sessions towards my new life of indentured servitude. You guys keep citing Republican achievements from 30 or 40 years ago, when the Reps actually were somewhat libertarian... last time I checked that was 30 or 40 years ago. 'Round about 1980, Ronnie took time out of his busy schedule of drug dealing and arms-for-hostage negotiations and jumped into bed with a large bloc of voters that call themselves fundamentalists (who wouldn't know a New Testament if it sprouted teeth and bit them in the ass), and ever since, the GOP has been in the forefront of stealing personal liberties.

There's an incredibly narrow mindset that's been infecting this country for a long time, and I think you've been infected. It equates life with money, and stuff with freedom, and a roster of posessions with personal value. Liberty isn't getting more stuff, especially when it comes at the price of longer and longer workweeks and less vacation. The government could have a place as an instrument collective will -- something to provide a check and balance to the whims of concentrated wealth -- that is, it could if it weren't bought and paid for...

My job is to be a romantic individualist. Ralph's job is to be a crusader for justice. I see no hypocrisy in supporting him in his enterprise, and getting on with mine.

K.

...OK. Now I'm sure we've ruined Marc's thread.

By Bob_chong on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Anatomist:

Ralph Nader? I thought you were against the nanny-state. I thought you were more libertarian than that. Nader wants universal health care (among other gov't solutions to individual problems). Your supporting Nader is truly an act of hypocrisy, at least from what you've purported on this thread: "staunch individualism" and radical liberalism are not compatible. Don't buy the Green hype. That crap may float in Deutschland, but then again, politics was never the Huns' strong suit.

BC

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Marc,

BTW, would you recommend that movie even to someone absolutely loathes virtually anything resembling a musical, including opera? The only musicals I've ever enjoyed were Little Shop of Horrors, and The Rocky Horror Picture Show, largely because they were so self-consciously ludicrous. The preview pieces I've seen on DANCER led me to believe it would induce projectile vomiting in one such as me.

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Well, I guess I'm going to have to take some prescription anti-nausea medication and read some recent Sowell, since y'all apparently have framed pictures of him on your walls. It's been a long time since I read anything by him (not a coincidence).

Since I have no particular evidence to produce, I can just give my general impression, by way of dim recollection. I agree that he is smart, and capable of formulating coherent paragraphs, which is notable in itself for someone printed in newspapers. However, like the rest of his buddies down at the American Spectator, his intellectualism seemed but a thin veneer over Limbaugh-style demagoguery. People that smart don't practice selective character assasination, and trot out red-herring arguments that they damn well know are laughably flawed unless their dick is in someone's pocket, or somewhere else it shouldn't be.

I agree that Democrats are mostly indefensible, but I find Republicans completely so. It's like the difference between wet shit and warm wet shit... not much to choose from. I think it's sad that political discussions so often get steered into this Dems vs. Reps format: you powdered wigs are trying to put Eric, Rabbit, Hobgoblin, and myself into the wrong box. None of us said word one in favor of Democrats.

Why does defense of the right always take the form of attacks on Democrats? Because if Democrats are made to be seen as left, and the sensible point of view probably in some comfortable middle area, then the one party system is intact: socialism for the rich, free market disciplines and prisons for the rest. Sensible points of view are inherently made to look outside the allowable spectrum, and therefore too looney to warrant the slightest consideration.

If you want an honest man with a conscience, don't waste your vote: go with Nader. Take a look at CSPAN and you'll see rally after rally in city after city: venues from 7,000 to 20,000+ absolutely full of people who PAID to see Nader, and are screaming for him to be allowed to debate. The fact that no one is seriously considering letting him on the stage with the two republicrats says it all.

K.

By Bob_chong on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 03:46 pm: Edit

Thanks Don for the dosage of truth in this thread. Your post reminded me of an interesting book I read a few years ago called A Different Mirror, a nonfiction book on every major immigrant group and what they eundured in this country. I'll do some homework on the phrase.

And Artemis, I still stand by the original intent of my Pilsner Urquell post (which was to point out cost vs. Pabst or some such nonsense). As Don and others have pointed out, there's no accounting for taste (e.g., I think Schlitz is possibly the best mass produced American beer, aka good ol' American piss, and I can wax philosophic on why everyone should hate f-ing Sam Adams). And I don't want to get into any pissing contest, but I know a lot more about beer than I should--certainly more than I'll ever know about absinthe. Anyway, enough about beer and absinthe... ;-)

As for Sowell, he is probably a libertarian more than anything else, which makes Anatomist's charge that Sowell is a whore all the more shocking (i.e., whose whore is he, Daddy-o?). Sowell is a genuine thinker and a master rhetorician--a rarity these days. And Anatomist: puritans as "staunch individualists"? That's quite a stretch. Goody Proctor and I have a bridge we'd like to sell you. Don't leave us hanging.

BC

By Artemis on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 03:03 pm: Edit

"Bob, don't regard yourself as the token GOPite on the forum. There's at least two of us."

Make that three. Bob Chong, based upon your Pilsner Urquell post that I promptly flamed, I didn't think you knew shit about beer, but your political views are right on the money and well-expressed to boot. Thomas Sowell a whore? The crew in the White House isn't fit to wipe Thomas Sowell's ass. Better a whore with a logical bedtime story than a whore with a switchblade.

By Marc on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 03:02 pm: Edit

I just checked out the chat site that kallisti
suggested we sample. Any thoughts? I'm real dumb when it comes to this stuff. Could a few of you folks check it out and let kallisti know what you think? Thanks.

By The_nephilim on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 02:33 pm: Edit

kallisti,

siouxsie... yum!

Tear Garden - Tired Eyes Slowly Burning.

By Don_walsh on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Bob, don't regard yourself as the token GOPite on the forum. There's at least two of us.

Here's a tidbit for thought:

The Democratic Party is the principal beneficiary of large corporate campaign contributions, yet they project themselves as the party of the people.

The Republican Party raises its campaign money mostly by small contributions from millions of ordinary people. Yet it is regarded as the party of the fat cats.

Source of campaign financing info: Federal Election Commission.

Not that I personally trust any politician as far as I could throw the Jefferson Memorial.

Who got the racist laws in California passed in the first half of the 20th century, which resulted in a great deal of the Japanese resentment of the US leading up to WWII?

The Democrats and their labor union friends -- Irush labor was nervous about Japanese immigration.

Who insisted on the wartime internment (and dispossession of real property) of Japanese-AMERICANS on the West Coast?

The Democrats and the governments of the Pacific Coast states. This was opposed by the way by that champion of human rights, J.Edgar Hoover Director FBI who knew that these people did NOT pose any threat.

Of course a good many of those interned Japanese Americans enlisted in the 442nd and distinguished themselves in the Italian campaign. The 'Go for Broke' 442nd Regimental Combat Team was the most decorated unit in the US military. Japanese American troops under mostly white officers. One of my pals, Col.Jack Sullivan was an officer in 442nd and Jack still has trouble buying his own drinks in Hawaii. One of his comrades in arms was Sen.Daniel Inouye.

So, YES the Dems have done their share of promoting racial inequity over the years.

Over to you Bob if you care to discuss how US laws have discriminated against the Chinese immigrants. Anyone know the origin of the phrase "Chinaman's chance"?

By Chrysippvs on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 02:07 pm: Edit

For those interested I just registered #lafeeverte on DALnet...if you are here come and see if anyone is home...

By Chrysippvs on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 01:34 pm: Edit

I think we could do both...IRC is great I agree that getting all the represented time zones together would be somewhat difficult..but I am sure we can come up with something...

By Admin on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 12:54 pm: Edit

O damn! And I almost forgot to thank ya'll for bringing up Julian Cope ... which reminded me that all my copesque vinyl is in storage and I ought to find some of the cd's ... don't forget Teardrop Explodes ... tho I had to order this from amazon.uk, his records have always hard to find stateside. I saw him open for Siouxsie in '87 .... yummmmmmm.

p.s. I **like** all the record collection comparing.

p.s.s. they are still playing that film "Book of Life" with PJ Harvey on the Sundance channel, I think it was on last night. Look for it.

p.s.s.s. also, they are showing "Conceiving Ada" quite a bit on Sundance ... mediocre film, but it stars my bed. they borrowed it for the production. Tilda Swinton (swoon) napped on my bed between scenes.

By Admin on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 12:48 pm: Edit

Here's a web chat that doesn't suck too bad (its not really customized yet):

http://mercury.beseen.com/chat/rooms/v/15297/

let me know if ya hate it and I'll keep shopping. I'd like something that linked off of the forum so forumites could "pop" by ...

or I could just publish the irc chat# on the menu bar or something. but its hard to irc chat from work, whereas a browser is more sneakable :)

By Bob_chong on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 12:13 pm: Edit

Hobgoblin: Thanks for the kind words of encouragement.

Anatomist: You have obviously been in Madison too long. Dr. Sowell is a whore? How so? I don't always agree with his politics, but his entire career has been based on shouting that the emperor wears no clothes. For that, and for his scholarship, I respect him. Anyway, "defending the Republicans" and dispelling dearly-held cultural myths are two different things. Sacred cows make good burgers and all that...

Now if you wanna talk cultural/political whores, let's take a look at that two-bit crackwhore Gary Trudeau. I can't remember the last time his strip was even remotely funny. He is as insignificant and out of touch as Charles Schultz became (in his latter, senile, unfunny years).

BC

By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 12:02 pm: Edit

Anatomist,

Look forward to further discussion. I too have to go, lesson plans to prepare. A bit of good-natured political/philosophical debate is a healthy thing.

Hobgoblin

By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 12:00 pm: Edit

Bob, we'd all rather you had a bit more money than the likes of Bill Gates or Richard Branson.

The Brits did rather well in the Olympics, better than we (I sort of include myself even though I'm Irish) did for 80 odd years.

Personally I'd swap our levels of taxation with yours and also our petrol prices. Although I wouldn't swap my legal right to buy and drink absinthe :-)

Good luck with your Doctorate, I'll raise a (legal) glass to your success.

Hobgoblin

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 11:54 am: Edit

Looks like y'all stole my thunder. I was going to rip on Bob for defending the Republicans and even mentioning that whore Sowell. But cooler heads are setting the course.

With all this political talk and chat-tech talk, I think we pretty much ruined Marc's AFTER HOURS thread. I was thinking of starting a new one to hash out some of this politics stuff, and get mean... not insulting, just mean. A little arena for the thick-skinned who like arguing. In fact, I was going to call it THE ARENA. Any takers? Bob?

As far as the chat idea goes, I don't quite understand. If it has to be live, and requires you to be on one computer, I don't see it overlapping much with this format. One of main virtues of the forum is that you can read and compose your posts on your own time, and more carefully than if a conversation were blurring by. Likewise, you can read or contribute from any computer, not just your home unit.

An alternative to the long thread would be to just shepherd a thread through multiple incarnations (i.e. Marc starts AFTER HOURS 2 and this one dies). Perhaps this way a thread-franchise could maintain an essential character over time, and complaints about off-topicness could have some validity by consensus (i.e. "You're ruining our vibe here, take it to THE ARENA") The logistics of getting people to stop using the dead one would be the problem.

I've gotta go now, but I'll get back to you, Hobgoblin, about the malleability of humanity.

Midas: I'm aware of Y Kant Tori Read, but I wasn't willing to invest. Is it actually worth getting?

K.

By Bob_chong on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 11:49 am: Edit

Hobgoblin:

And that is exactly why I want a tax cut. I don't care who gives it to me, just let me keep more of my money.

Then again, an American whining about taxes to a Brit is like an Olympic athlete whining about his silver medal to a parapalegic. I guess I should count my blessings (or money). ;-)

BC

By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 11:45 am: Edit

Absinthe is best drank with some laid back early Van Morrison. Nothing like Tupelo Honey, Ballerina or Into the Mystic to chill out to.

Hobgoblin

By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 11:13 am: Edit

Regarding Republicans and Democrats.

As someone who doesn't reside in the USA it might be considered a bit out of line to comment on your political parties but here goes anyway. As the USA has so much influence on the entire globe I think I am entitled to express a view.

Neither Republicans or Democrats represent the interest of ordinary working people, infact the entire political system is controlled by and represents the interests of a small handfull of people who control most of the Nation's wealth. Therefore neither party can be trusted and neither party are worthy of your vote.

Like anatomist I have a great deal of admiration for your puritanical founding fathers as I believe they were principled people who valued honesty and integrity. This can not be said for politicians, either Republican or Democrat.

Anatomist you imply that human nature is not malleable. Rather than look at human nature as being malleable or not I would argue that human nature, rather than being set in stone is forged by the circumstances, social conditions and system of government/control that people live under. Change these factors and human nature will also change.

(Just contributing my own bit of off-topic philosophy to the thread)

Hobgoblin

By Black_rabbit on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 11:07 am: Edit

Nothign goes with absinthe like Morphine (before the flaming starts- I mean the band) or maybe a little Slowdrive, perhaps some Siouxsie and the Banshees, Gary Numan, Portishead or Tricky. Or sometimes, Adam Ant.

Ranty rant time: The thing about the Gubmint and the corporations is this: There are people in power, and they very often hold posts in both. Not to mention lobbyists.

They help maintain the illusion that there is a division between the corporate bastards and the govt bastards, but that is a terrible oversimplification.

Every 4 years, those of us in the US are presented with two dishonest men. We are encouraged to argue extensively which dishonest man is to be put into a post that is largely a figurehead position, while the wheels keep turning unnoticed in the background. Should we pick the wrong one, if there *is* a wrong one, the Electoral College will set things to rights, as they can trump a popular vote anyhow.

But all this power is used so poorly, it leads me to wonder what the agendas really are. Such ineptitude is suspect, although of course there are few other models to judge against. Happy people who are free to live their lives to the fullest are not on the list, whatever the list is.


Drives me to drink, I tell you :-)

By Fellraven on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 10:33 am: Edit

Julian Cope? Singer/musician? That's about as much as I know, except that he recently published an expensive coffee table book about megalithic sites in Britain and Ireland. I've not seen a copy but it's reported to be full of new age twaddle, dodgy folklore and superb photographs.

By Midas on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 09:48 am: Edit

My god, my computer is off line for a couple of days, and look at the size of this thread! And the others, for that matter.
Anatomist, regarding the mis-heard song lyrics, listen to Tori's 'Flying Dutchman', and see if you can hear:
" A little dust on the stumpy nun,
I light my shoes, it keeps them warm...' I played it on my radio show, and a listener rang in to see if that was what she said. Also, we had someone ring in asking to hear "Mother Goose is Dead" by Bauhaus! I never thought Bela Lugosi sounded like Mother Goose, but Mr Murphy did mumble a bit, and with a few drinks under your belt...
Sorry to harp on about Ms.Amos, but have you heard "Y Kant Tori Read"?
Also, anyone else here like VAST?
(Mon Dieu, the secret's out. I'm chromatically challenged...)

By Fellraven on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 07:18 am: Edit

Marc

Sure I can arrange some initial chat sessions to give people a chance to see if they like IRC.

We need those who are interested to say so, and to download and install/configure mIRC. Nothing else can happen until this does.

When we know where the interested folks are in terms of time zones, we can agree some times to give everyone a chance to get together and chat. It may be difficult to find a few hours when everyone between Oz/Thailand, Europe and the E and W Coasts can get on line at the same time (that's about an 18 hour time span) but we should be able to work out some relays or shifts if necessary.

Think of it as a 24 hour bar with people dropping in for a chat/drink on their way to or from work, the shops, the gym or whatever.

By Marc on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 03:12 am: Edit

fellraven,

any thoughts on Julian Cope?

By Fellraven on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 02:37 am: Edit

Wandering in a little late in the day, perhaps, but nevertheless bolstering the feminine presence in this discussion. (Feminine? Me? No, let's just settle for female....)

Can't comment on films (don't really watch them) except to say that the most stunning one I've ever seen (several times and want it on video) was "The Raggedy Rawney" made by Handmade Films in the mid 80s. Saw it first at the arts cinema in Norwich, England c1988 and commented to partner "If Yugoslavia ever degerates into civil war, that's what it will be like". Was right. Dead right.

Music? Gave up pop/rock c1974 and discovered Wagner a few years later. Still into Wagner, but have added Mahler, Bruckner, Sibelius, and the English mystical composers (Vaughan Williams, Elgar, Bantock, Bax, Holst etc) to the mix. Cursing the departure of Sir Simon from Symphony Hall in Birmingham.

Also early (pre-Renaissance) music and (the Gods help me!) Byzantine chant. I don't know much about either but I like them and listen to them.

Don't read much (any) modern literature to speak of, being an medievalist and all, but do like the poetry of Edwin Muir (when I can understand it).

OK, so I'm weird.

By Marc on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 02:19 am: Edit

fellraven,

let's do it. can you get this thing up and running? I'm completely in the dark when it comes
to computer speak etc. anyone out there willing to chip in and make this "chat room" a reality?
I am personally not into idle chatter, but these long threads are becoming problematic. My wrists are getting weak from scrolling.

billynorm,

Pearls Before Swine. Now we're dipping way into the underground. How about The Fugs? The first punk rockers.

By Fellraven on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 01:52 am: Edit

There have been a number of queries about the means of starting a chat forum/channel. The simplest way is through IRC (Internet Relay Chat) which has the advantage of being (1) free (2) immediate and (3) ownable. It also allows private off-channel conversations as well.

It's free because access to the servers is free and there is no cost involved in setting up a channel, either temporarily or permanently. Immediate because chat is real time - messages are normally read within a second or so of being typed and sent*. Ownable because a channel can be registered and controlled by those who set it up.

The almost universal software for IRC is the UK shareware package mIRC (http://www.mirc.co.uk for free download). It uses unix commands, eg /command .

An IRC channel exists as soon
as the first person enters and ceases when the last person leaves.
Registration is a means of obtaining a bot to babysit the channel when no
active person is there.

You need to choose an IRC network. Undernet is the "alternative" network,
while DALnet is also active and more "mainstream". I already own and manage
the officially registered channel #pagan on Undernet. There are, however,
more than a dozen others, eg StarNet, SorceryNet. EFnet carries a lot of porn channels, for
instance. There is currently no registered #absinth or #absinthe on Undernet.

Simply, a channel is created when you open the client and type

/join #channelname

and return. So typing

/join #absinthe

creates a channel called #absinthe of which you are the owner/manager, unless someone else has already created it, in which case you hopefully find yourself talking to others of like mind.

Channel registration procedure varies from one network to another. On
Undernet, you have to submit a request with the (real) email addresses of 10
supporters. Then there is a period of a week or two when Undernet's
operators check on the channel periodically to ensure there is some
activity. Eventually they register the channel and allocate you a bot to
programme.

The channel manager (owner) has to use the channel at least once in every 60
days to prevent cancellation of the registration.

I suggest that folks who are interested download mIRC, familiarise themselves with IRC and mIRC, then have a
couple of months running an unregistered channel to gauge interest and only
then go for registration. I am more than happy to supply an
email address as a supporter if someone wants to create a channel. However
programming bots does require a bit of experience and practice.

I've already supplied most of this information to Chrysippus as he enquired about it, but if interested parties would like a demo we can perhaps set a date and time for a trial get together.

* Immediate - there is a periodic problem known as netsplit which affects all IRC networks to some extent. The various servers in the network drift out of sync with each other and messages disappear into the aether for a minute or so before appearing on other peoples's screens in a slightly surreal fashion (known as "lag"); if the lag becomes too great then parts of the network split off and various members of the channel appear to disappear leaving boths groups wondering "where did they go?" When network connections are re-established (usually within a few minutes) both sides become visible to each other again and the lag disappears. For most channels, netsplit is a bugger but for this particular group it could just be designated an "absinthe moment" and enjoyed.

By Billynorm on Tuesday, October 03, 2000 - 12:01 am: Edit

Kevin,

O.K. I know I'm late, but here goes anyway: Tom Waits.

Here's another: Don Van Vliet. Also quite phenomenal: Rahsaan Roland Kirk & Ornette Coleman. Lest we forget: Pearls Before Swine.

Somebody stop me - I'm dropping names like May baskets!

By Bob_chong on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 11:48 pm: Edit

Eric:

"GOP promotes social intolerance"?

Perhaps you should brush up on your history. Start with Thomas Sowell's most recent articles (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell092800.asp and http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell1.asp)

A little tidbit:
"The fact is that a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Despite all the media hype about the confederate flag flying over the state capitol in South Carolina, no Republican put that flag there. The Democrats' Senator Fritz Hollings, who was governor of South Carolina in the 1960s, put that confederate flag there at a time when it was used all across the South as a symbol of resistance to the civil rights movement."

But before I come across as the token Republican on this board, I need to state that neither party occupies the high moral ground. I am simply tired of liberal rhetoric about how the GOP is the root of all social injustice.

BC

By Bob_chong on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 11:19 pm: Edit

Anatomist:

Another way the gov't is doing the bidding of corporations will be seen if (Gore is elected and) we aggressively pay off the nat'l debt. I am all for paying our bills, but the net effect of buying back gov't bonds from the public is that these same folks will now be looking for another "safe" (i.e., limited risk) investment, which leaves corporate bonds. So Gore, the supposed champion of the little guy (i.e., Defender of the Teat), will be lining the pockets of corporations. Something you don't hear much about.

And just because I singled out the Gore plan doesn't mean that other candidates are worthy.

BC

By Chrysippvs on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 10:28 pm: Edit

Some cool books I am pouring over as of now...they are somewhat hard finds but give an amazing look at the Late Medieval Hermetic thought and more importantly a glimpse into the works of the most important occultist after Agrippa. Some cool ones are:

De Heptarchia Mystica
Quinti Libri Mysteriorum
and his Diaries found in Causabon's "True Relation of what passed between John and and some spirits"
- all of John Dee and Edward Kelly(Talbot)

I know the first two have been printed in some form in Latin and True Relation is is english although it is a facsimile of the 1550's printing. For all the fans of Lovecraft and such theses are great reads, I am not sure what to make of them but when the alleged Angelic language was tested for entropy based on a latin standard it got around a 3.62 mark Enlgish in any print of the new york times is around 4.55...very odd to say the least.

This forum is great, some many diverse minds and tastes...we need to have a convention!

- J

By Anatomist1 on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 09:41 pm: Edit

Hey Marc,

Just a few more desultory thoughts on Tori... as you have me revisiting BOYS FOR PELE.

If you get it, DON'T read the lyrics. Look at the pictures, by all means. You can't beat a confident woman holding a hunting rifle like a guitar, dirtied with mud, dead fowl on the right, large snake crawling up her rocking chair. However, I think one of the great joys of her music is misconstruing her lyrics. I often read her version much later and think "Nah, I like mine better." She approves. She gives you room to move. One of my absolute favorites is "Not the Red Baron"... caught me once, flayed open like a raw nerve, shutterring at every perception. A prime reason to stay alive, I say, is the sheer terror that beauty inflicts on you, now and then...

Visit this site! http://www.kissthisguy.com/
It's pure fun. Read about other people's ridiculous misinterpretations of your favorite song lyrics, and the embarassing moment when they were finally busted... add your own tale.

More for Verte:

I think you're confusing the good of the many with survival of the species. Take a look at biological evolution: survival of the species is mostly about the amazingly coincidental durability of the mutated few.

More for Chong:

The days of the gov't as threat #1 are long gone. Now, government is only scary insofar as it does the bidding of corporations, which it does with ever-increasing efficiency. Giant corporations are what's blotting out the significance of the exquisitely cultivated individual, not the various whores and interlopers who somehow manage to get elected.

K.

A book report is on the way: The Secret History, by Donna Tartt. I haven't been this excited about a book in a long while.

By Anatomist1 on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Oh my. Now things are bubbling nicely. Shouting out your favorite cultural artifacts is OK, but this is positively delicious. This is meaty fried chicken with the skin on.

Reverse order:

I think Eric's terse objection to Bob is right on. What people call left and right are part of the same thing, only the right seems too comfortable in their priviledges to be very cunning at deception. Therefore, most non-affluent thinking persons get rubbed the wrong way by the right. Their pretensions at libertarianism are laughable.

On the other hand, I think Bob has his finger on something not widely recognized about liberal/leftism. They have a view about human nature as something malleable... even curable by means of well-intentioned social engineering. This notion is at the center of all totalitarian nightmares, both real and imagined. How much more tolerable simple, ignorant tyranny? This is where I find myself aligning with Puritans, of all people. These are the founders of our country. They put the Fuck U in USA. They're staunch individualists. They value repression as an intensifier of passion. OK I'm going a little overboard here, but as Hakim Bey says, what we need is not a return TO the primordial, but a return OF the primordial.

I agree, by and large, with you, Verte about our current situation, but not in your fatalism. Well, OK... I even agree with the fatalism, but I have a different attitude about it. I say nothing is all that dire when we can still fight, make love, and drink absinthe...

K.

By Eric on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 06:22 pm: Edit

BC
I think the reason so many people refer to republicans as fascists is because it is so obvious that they are puppets for the big corporations, and they promote a lot of social intolerance. not that the dems are any better. just my 2 cents.

By Bob_chong on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 06:06 pm: Edit

"No one but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money." Dr. Samuel Johnson

Don't knock capitalism and so-called "selling out." Anyone that pretends they don't want acknowledgement for their work is lying. And depending on your medium, that recognition may come in the form of money. Money doesn't necessarily have to be the #1 reason to toil in a given field, but it is part of the deal nonetheless.

PV, your vision of the future was interesting (the fear of Fascism part). What I find curious about this is that you have described, to a T, the Dem's plan since LBJ. It's funny that folks always accuse the GOP of being the fascists, but it has always been the Dems who try to keep us hooked up to the Gov't teat. And I wholeheartedly agree with you--dependence on the gov't is what we should fear most.

BC

By Perruche_verte on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 04:54 pm: Edit

Anatomist, if we could forget entirely about economics, you'd be right. But who foots the bill? Right now I'm happy being a part-time musician -- I work about 20 hrs. a week at my day job (a public service position), which is almost up to post-revolutionary standards. ;-) Not every creative person is happy that way.

So promising scientists and engineers get bought out by biotech and defense. Promising writers and visual artists get bought out by advertising. These are not industries that are interested in solutions. Of course, there's room for entrepreneurs and niche marketers, e.g. the Ted and Don Project, but small business has such a low survival rate that a well-compensated day job seems to be a necessary first step.

You are the creator of some rather fine visual art; have any advertising firms come calling? True, the stuff you do is rather gritty and unsettling, perhaps not easily put to commercial use, but I'll bet some "hip" marketeer will want your images eventually. Make sure you retain the copyright, and hang onto your soul with both hands.

There has got to be a place for the magic, for the insanity, for the real individualism. But that can only take place when there's a certain societal tolerance -- when there's a red-light district that gets left alone by the cops, a Montparnasse, a Harlem -- or better yet, wider cultural values to allow for it.

In some tribal cultures I could have a dream in which I was touched by the Thunder Beings. I would wake up and tell my family that I had to shave off half my hair, wear women's clothing, and do and say everything in reverse for the rest of my life. And that would be just fine! If you're in Anglo-American culture and that happens, there's nothing to do but move to San Francisco and work in a coffee shop. And now you can't even do that -- real estate problems.

Beware false individualism! It encourages people to be cool, consume the right products, work harder, spend more, hell, why not go into debt? This is accompanied by a soundtrack based on the theme "Leave a Good-Looking Corpse (And a Highly Carbonated Atmosphere)."

And -- my big fear -- along with this comes creeping Fascism. When you're too busy working and buying yourself "fun" even to tie your own shoes, you will increasingly demand that the Gummint tie them for you, tuck you into bed at night, build more freeways for you, and get those nasty homeless people off the street and into labor camps. Then you will whine about how much this all costs you in taxes. So the Gummint will outsource, privatize, bust the public employee unions (like they are trying to bust mine)...

Eventually those of us who aren't in prison will live in gated communities protected by temp security guards making $8 an hour. There will be 11 PM curfews and random drug searches. In other words, we'll all be in prison.

By that time I hope to have fled the US, or to have died more or less happily.

So this is sort of a long, hopefully entertaining explanation of why I think art needs to emphasize collective values more. Sorry for the bitterness -- perhaps it's the wormwood talking ;-)

By Anatomist1 on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 06:18 am: Edit

"In some ways I think Europe and America are way too hung up on what we consider personal artistic vision. We drive our artists into heights of hubris, ravines of rarified tortured "self-expression", in pursuit of something new and different. This is not the music of people who know how to live, who are planning on staying around on this planet."

Hmmm... I don't think I can go along with this. When it comes to the issue of species longevity, slow and steady is fine... if you're a cartiliginous fish. Hell, the lamphrey has been around for a while. However, I just don't think this is the nature of humans. I think our best chance at this point is more extreme variation, wilder inventiveness and the proliferation of states of mind currently devalued as "insane".

K.

By Anatomist1 on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 05:44 am: Edit

Marc,

HEARTBREAKER, by Ryan Adams.

Sorry, couldn't resist. For me music is all very immediate, and since I'm not in the midst of a Tori reverie just now, Heartbreaker is my first recommendation. After that would be FAITHLESS STREET, by Whiskeytown (also w/Ryan Adams). But, on to your actual question...

If you want tuneful and accessible, I'll back Midas on LITTLE EARTHQUAKES. If you want wild and wooly, I say go for BOYS FOR PELE, it's the strangest and most acrid, but most rewarding in the long run.

K.

By Marc on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 01:25 am: Edit

Shit, I was close. I had the author but not the novel.

By Absinthedrinker on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 01:07 am: Edit

Marc, The answer is in your email, in case anyone else wants a go!

By Marc on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 12:44 am: Edit

absinthedrinker,

I'm stumped. Please do tell.

By Absinthedrinker on Monday, October 02, 2000 - 12:19 am: Edit

Marc, here is a literary puzzle for you. Which book has references to your favourite wine and the Green Fairy within the same chapter? (Clue: the author is Irish)

By Marc on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 11:46 pm: Edit

Justin,

for a few years back in the 70's, I wrote music and film reviews for the Boulder Daily Camera in Boulder, Colorado. I genuinely enjoyed the opportunity to expose people to things that I felt was worth their while. I still do. A critic has to have a certain arrogance, you have to believe you have exceptional taste. I don't know if I qualify, but, I do know what I like. And, in general, what I like is considered to be good over time. I was a big champion of punk bands, b-movies and writers like Charles Bukowski before it was hip to like such stuff. I still am always looking for the edgy stuff, stuff that unsettles and provokes.

By Chrysippvs on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 11:38 pm: Edit

As in professionally in a newspaper etc..

By Marc on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 11:36 pm: Edit

Justin,

I think I just did.

By Chrysippvs on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Marc,

You should write movie reviews!

By Marc on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 11:30 pm: Edit

DANCER IN THE DARK, a new film by Lars Von Trier and starring Bjork, is a dark, painfully exhilarating movie unlike any I've ever seen. Von Trier is a director who is really working without a net. He goes in directions that filmmakers stopped going in years ago. He harkens back to a time before cinema was reduced to the mere mechanics of storytelling. Von Trier links cinema to dream, as did Cocteau, Melies, Franju, Dreyer, Murnau and Vigo. Von Trier is a witchdoctor, an alchemist who's potions are made of celluloid and nitrates. He is of the great tradition of surrealist filmmakers who turn narrative inside out. Like a fairy tale, the story is not just in the story, it is in what lurks underneath. Collective reality is boring, it is the sum of what we have agreed upon. It is an individual's reality that is interesting because it is a reality as unique as a fingerprint. Like Von Trier. I am not interested in the truth. I am interested in the lie that tells the truth.

I have not told you what this movie is about. I don't care what it is about, nor should you. The only important thing is how it makes you feel...
and DANCER IN THE DARK will make you feel confused, appalled and alive.

By Marc on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 10:13 pm: Edit

anatomist,

which Tori Amos album should I pick up?

By arturo ui on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 02:18 pm: Edit

damn...

By Anatomist1 on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 02:05 pm: Edit

... sorry, that's "peace, love and a hard cock." Typo.

By Anatomist1 on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 02:02 pm: Edit

Marc,

Aiiiyyeee!!! You wound me with your association of Amos with Phish and the Dead. May the fairies be merciful with you. I, too, think the dead are interminably boring -- Phish perhaps a bit less so. The bottom line is, all those granola bands are gritless and essentially cultural reactionaries. What sets Tori apart, as Verte pointed out, is guts. Personally, I don't inhabit a Jungian fantasy world full of fairies and mythological creatures, but the fact that she does so, unapologetically and forcefully, really turns me on. Despite the objections of everyone from boarding school nuns (who kicked her out of the coservatory for ditching the piano curriculum in favor of Led Zeppelin and Bartok) to record company executives (who threatened to dump her first album if she didn't drop the piano for a standard rock guitar set up) to rude audiences, she says: "Fuck off! This is my world and you can't touch it. I'm doing it my way, or I'm doing it my way somewhere else." Contrary to Verte, I can't get enough of the exaltation of the rogue individual. I also have a fondness for Trekkies and Fantasy geeks. Not my cup of tea, but I say "Right on! Put on that Klingon getup and have a ball!" I actually disliked Tori for pretty much the reasons mentioned earlier... right up until the day I loved her. But, she's obviously not for everyone. Like she says, things would be easier all around if she were potato chips, but she's not: she's anchovies.

K.

"Give me love and give me peace. Give me peace, love a hard cock." -from Professional Widow

By petermarc on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 12:42 pm: Edit

am i the only person that has carried around
a copy of The The "Soul Mining" from album
to tape to CD? after matt johnson made the mistake of "infected" i never listened to another release until i heard him in concert this year
in paris. "this is the day" has been my theme song
for almost 20 years, i guess the accordion-like
synth finally dragged me to france....

By Artemis on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 12:21 pm: Edit

The Floating Men. I repeat: Floating Men. Acoustic guitar, bass, drums. Three guys. Killer lyrics, although the singer doesn't annunciate too well. When I can understand what he's saying, the words are like a stun gun.

By BloodStreamRuns on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 11:03 am: Edit

On the subject of Nick Cave, Johnny Cash is doing a cover of The Mercy Seat on his new record. That should be interesting to say the least. Very much in tune with his general aesthetic.

currently in heavy rotation:

Gang of Four - Entertainment
Mission of Burma - VS
Sugar - Copper Blue
The Dismemberment Plan - Emergency & I

By Perruche_verte on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 08:40 am: Edit

About Tori Amos: This is secondhand and possibly inaccurate, as I wasn't there that night, but people still talk about when she played my city the first time, touring for the first album. There was a little bit of a buzz about her, but not that much, you understand.

When she came in to play her first number people were doing the kind of loud drunken chit-chat that makes one wonder why they paid $15 to get into a club with live music anyway. She stopped in the middle of the song and told them to shut the hell up or she wasn't going on. People applauded, and she went on playing.

Supposedly Keith Jarrett does this kind of thing all the time, but I don't think he did it at the beginning of his career! Say what you will about Tori, she does have guts.

For a long time my favorites were (mostly British) punk and post-punk from the late 70s and 80s. That music (movement?) put a premium on unmediated experience, which I suppose is the same sort of impulse that leads one to try absinthe and other forbidden things.

More recently I have immersed myself in various kinds of traditional music and non-Western popular music. In some ways I think Europe and America are way too hung up on what we consider personal artistic vision. We drive our artists into heights of hubris, ravines of rarified tortured "self-expression", in pursuit of something new and different. This is not the music of people who know how to live, who are planning on staying around on this planet. The Lakota say, "A vision is for the people."

One musician I do admire is Jah Wobble, old PiL bass player who has gone on to do many, many interesting musical projects.

I saw the Creatures last time they were in town and they were great too.

By Absinthedrinker on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 06:54 am: Edit

The Incredible String Band! Another of my favorites from way back. Jeez did I use to piss people off in my flat with The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter. They have recently reformed - all three of them - and played a few gigs around the UK festival circuit this summer. Also a compilation of early stuff came out recently, The Chelsea Tapes or something similar.

"May the long time sun shine on you, all love surround you and the pure light within you shine your way on"

By Marc on Sunday, October 01, 2000 - 01:44 am: Edit

I have to admit I don't understand the appeal of
Tori Amos, Phish or The Grateful Dead. They inspire fanatical devotion, but, I just don't get it. Admittedly, my experience of Amos and Phish is limited. On the other hand, I've approached The Dead over and over again and they just don't move me. The first time I saw The Dead
was in San Francisco's Panhandle Park in 1968.
They bored the shit out me. And don't tell me I wasn't doin' enough drugs. I was trippin'on purple Owsleys, white lightening and sunshine on an almost daily basis. One band I saw back then that I really loved was The Incredible String Band. They were on a bill with Traffic at the Fillmore West. It was transcendent.

By Anatomist1 on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 06:56 pm: Edit

Arturo,

She doesn't do the piano spread thing anymore. If you read an interview or two you'll find she admits that it had to do with an audience-connection trumping things in her personal life. It might not make any sense unless you too have created for a presence that was sadly lacking in your personal life. Sometimes the weird are simply stranded, and so they create. Deprivation is a powerful pressure. I suspect you aren't allowing for the distortions your own taste imposes on your perceptions. Your doubt about Tori's sincerity is simply wrong.

K.

By arturo ui on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 04:11 pm: Edit

brandishing my pince-nez, i'd just like to say that the inability to tolerate tori *gag* amos does not necessarily a card carrying member of the hipoisie make. although it doesn't hurt . she's about as sincere as yanni. her material is so contrived, but the thing that really gets me (and believe me, i'm no prude) is her "stance" at the piano - could she possibly spread 'em any wider?!? i'd much rather listen to ute lemper, or tom waits, or paulo conte

-art

p.s. marc, sorry, i guess i'm not very yangy as far as girls go.

By Anatomist1 on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Marc,

The party line among Toriphiles is that "Boys for Pele" is her worst album. Don't believe it. It's blissful. I'd say it's her darkest, with the most surreal lyrics. Check out "Father Lucifer". She into'ed it at a show saying that one time she was on an Ayahuasca journey and she met this guy she'd been hearing a lot of bad things about, but he turned out not to be such a bad guy... Besides, who's afraid of a little ol' harpsichord? Also, I'm really big on the live disc on "To Venus and Back" (most recent). But, alas, as is the pattern with most recording artists, the initial recordings are usually the ones with the most staying power...

How come nobody mentioned Tom Waits?

K.

By The Green Imp on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 02:55 am: Edit

BTW Kallisti,
I am another wind-up phono player,
There is some great vintage stuff out there to play on your favorite wind-up machine.
When I have a glass of the muse, my favorite machine is a 1927 Edison Diamond Disc, with some 20's Jazz or flappers music....Edisons and Victors are nice since thay have a auto-mechanical shut off when you don't want get up after a particulary good glass.
There are a handfull of vintage absinthe songs, from the Jazz age, but are quite rare.

By The Green Imp on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 02:40 am: Edit

Ah Kate Bush,
What an extraordinary woman, that voice is incredible, and such a beautiful woman too.
But she always takes her own sweet time in producing her work. And to top it off, she had a child last year, so anyone expecting anything new may well be waiting for sometime.
The rumor mill says perhaps mid next year or later, though she is one of the few that is able to control her own work to the point that little credible information surfaces about releases and content. No one really knows but Kate when she is ready.......(another long suffering fan)
Regards
Jay

By Marc on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 01:50 am: Edit

kallisti,

do what you can to establish a "chat" site.
Would $ help? If so, I'm willing to contribute.

I have not seen the Hartley film you mentioned, though I was aware of it. I'd love to see Polly Jean up on the big screen. She's blows my mind.

By Marc on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 01:31 am: Edit

I remember the first time I heard Kate Bush sing "Wuthering Heights". It was sheer bliss. I haven't listened to Tori Amos, but if anatomist and midas dig her, there must be something there. I'll have to check her out. I can't believe I forgot to include Leonard Cohen or Jeff Buckley in my list of essential music.

Where the women at? The "after hours" thread is the perfect hang for women who have been disenchanted by the "boys club" vibe of some of the other threads. kallisti cannot balance the yang in this forum by herself, though she is an extraordinary dame.

By Billynorm on Saturday, September 30, 2000 - 12:08 am: Edit

Marc,

Once again, GREAT THREAD! Dead Can Dance, Nick Cave, Love, Skip Spence (alas, poor Skippy!) & Nick Drake (alas, poor Nick!) are all part of my collection. The rest aren't, but I've heard (or at least heard of) the rest of them.

Update on LIVERPOOL SOUND COLLAGE: Super Furry Animals & Paul McCartney are involved in this project, but it's NOT a collection of Beatles remixes. It is what it says it is, a sound collage. To paraphrase Abe Lincoln's all-purpose review, for those who lke this kind of shit, this is the kind of shit they'll like!

Speaking of Kate Bush, why has she been so silent? Tori Amos is great, but Kate Bush is a Goddess!

Yes, Sun Ra has left the planet. Let's hope he'll come back when he can stay longer!

By Anatomist1 on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 06:13 pm: Edit

I'm with you on Tori, Midas, although I've been in a dormant period for a while. It's interesting that she doesn't seem to have many moderate fans. She's also widely dispised by the ultra-hip, quadruple-irony fashion crowd for being too sincere. I think Medved and the christian right media sensors are wrong about the nature of the cultural war that's going on in America. Morality vs. Hedonism... yawn. The interesting battleground is between romantics and ironists. Irony, which not too long ago appeared to have some liberating value, has finally become like a black hole, sucking everyone's passions and dreams into a vacuous pit of coolness, of tongue-in-cheek sameness, where everyone is insulated from risk by the ever-present possibility of receding into yet another layer of irony, of succumbing to yet another round of mirthless, nervous laughter.

Ironists appear to me as contemporary Victorians. Obsessed with their position in the pecking order: with being "in" and not "out". Pre-emptive with scorn and ridicule... just in case. Unlike Victorian socialites, however, they have no title, no estate, no family tradition to bolster them, so command of a plethora of meaningless bits of pop-cultural flotsam becomes the yardstick. I would love to see Letterman in one of those ruffled collars that stiffens the neck and threatens to envelop the head... perhaps he could get a pair of spectacles with a side handle. Of course, Letterman himself has become an obsolete dinosaur to the truly hip. Nonetheless, his ironic armour is still intact... wait, what were we talking about again?

By Marc on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 04:04 pm: Edit

Man my head is spinning. There is so much activity
in the forum right now, more threads than Medusa has snakes.

The first time I saw The Birthday Party was in 79 or 80. The band came to New York to play 3 gigs. Out of the 3 shows, they completed one. Two clubs pulled the plug on them. Nick Cave's performances were so physical and provocative, that the clubs were afraid he was going to harm himself or the audience. He was intense. After the one show he
played thru to completion (The Peppermint Lounge),
I saw him sitting alone at the bar. I sat down next to him and ordered a drink. For an hour we talked about French surrealism, beat poets, rock and roll, cinema etc. He was a soft-spoken and very intelligent 25 year old dude. I was deeply impressed by him. I have followed his career ever since. About a year ago he performed again in New York. It was his birthday. He did alot of material off "The Boatman's Call" cd. It was a firey performance, with Nick in full Baptist preacher mode. A lean mean testifyin' machine. Great stuff.

By Admin on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 09:21 am: Edit

Yum, I like this thread ...

Marc, on the subject of PJ Harvey, New York, and films, have you seen "The Book Of Life" (film directed by Hal Hartley)? Jesus and Mary Magdalene (Harvey) return to NY for the Millenium for a face off with the Devil. Short film entirely carried by its wonderful little script, could have been a really annoying piece if not handled properly and PJ Harvey is scrumptious and very funny.

As for music, I recently got my Victrola fixed and have been buying random pre 1925 shellac records. No better way to wallow in an absinthe-era atmosphere.

Umm... and a chat board. My webhost doesn't allow cgi/java based chat because it drags too much on the system ... but I could look into 3rd party chats, like I used to have with the old boards.

Good idea, especially since its been so damn hoppin' around here lately!!!

By Midas on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 09:04 am: Edit

On the subject of singer/songwriters, I worship the ground Tori Amos walks on. Well, I would if I were anywhere near it. She truly sings from the heart, and I admire that. the Little Earthquakes album is a modern classic, as far as I'm concerned. BTW, she just gave birth to a baby girl. She's called her Natasha. And before anyone mentions it, yes I love Kate Bush as well, and no Tori's not a clone. In case anyone hasn't heard it, and you like your music eerie, listen to "Under Ice" on Kate's Hounds of Love album. It's about someone falling into a river that's frozen over. It's absolutely beautiful.
Actually, bugger it, just do yourself a favour and but her entire back catalogue ; )

By Hugo Ball on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 08:09 am: Edit

I saw Nick Cave in 1982 when he was in the band Birthday Party. During the heroin years. Absolutely riveting performance. His stuff with B.P. was just as dark, but with a sense of humor. You might find it more uplifting than his recent stuff. "Junkyard" is Nick's finest hour (or 45 minutes I guess). Still one of my most enduring favorites. "Big Jesus Trash Can" or "Hamlet Pow Pow Pow" will have you rolling on the floor.

"Hamlet's got a gun...
Now he's coming up my street,
He's coming in my house,
He's coming up my stairs,
'WHERE ... FOR ... ART ... THOU, BABYFACE?!!'
POW! POW! POW! POW!"

P.S. Lasalla is better than Deva.

By Absinthedrinker on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 02:43 am: Edit

Marc

I liked your list of musicians. John Martyn was one of the first people I went to see at University just after the ever brilliant Solid Air was released. I then bought his back catalog and have been dipping in and out of his music ever since. Nick Drake of course, the man was a genius. Nick Cave I like when I'm in a dark mood - Murder Ballads doesn't go down well at most dinner parties ;-). Have you ever seen him live with The Bad Seeds? What an outfit. I saw him do Mercy Seat at the Albert Hall a couple of years ado and have never forgotten it. I would add Leonard Cohen to the list as I regard him as one of the best singer songwriters ever - and no I don't find him depressing at all, more inspirational.

By Midas on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 02:16 am: Edit

Marc, yeah, I have seen the Filth and the Fury. She's also in a flick called Out of Bounds. Diva Diva Diva.

By The Green Imp on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 02:11 am: Edit

Marc,
Check your mail box, I sent the info on Firetalk.
Jay

By The Green Imp on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 02:03 am: Edit

www.Firetalk.com I will send you the details right now.
Regards
Jay

By Marc on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 01:55 am: Edit

green imp,

Please tell us more. Can you help expedite such an experiment?

By The Greeen Imp on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 01:50 am: Edit

Why not use one of the voice chat programs such as Firetalk, its free and you can have private chat areas. The sound quality is decent, and the program seems fairly stable.
Just think of the possibilities of hearing us all in real time.......something to ponder.
Regards
Jay

By Marc on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 01:36 am: Edit

billynorm,

Ah Sun Ra. Celestial sounds. The Arkestra decked out in spaceage robes and surreal headgear. The sound of the Universe collapsing in on itself.
The Music Of The Spheres? I don't know, but they certainly stirred up a heavenly noise.

May I suggest the following bands for your listening pleasure (you are probably familiar with most of them):

DEAD CAN DANCE
NICK CAVE
PRIMAL SCREAM
NICK DRAKE
SKIP SPENCE
LOVE
UNDERWORLD
BETH ORTON
LORDS OF ACID
COCTEAU TWINS
YOUNG MARBLE GIANTS
SERGE GAINSBOURG
FRANCOIS HARDY
JOHN MARTYN

As this thread extends into infinity, we are going to have to find a way to make it more manageable. Any suggestions? It would be nice to have something along the lines of a "chat room"
(I hate that phrase). Having to scroll past so many posts in order to write a new message is a bit frustrating. Spontaneity is lost and we're not riffing off each other as well as we might.
Kallisti, oh silent mystic presence, any thoughts?

By Chrysippvs on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 01:02 am: Edit

PI...great movie saw it on Sundance...
also Heveanly Creatures is a good one..

music..I am listening to a lot of really French Baroque stuff...need to move closer to this century...

- J

By Billynorm on Friday, September 29, 2000 - 12:49 am: Edit

Thank you, Marc, for a great thread!

I don't go to films much. It's not that I don't like films (I do), but I hate film audiences! I'm getting anti-social in my old age, I guess. (The last film I saw in a theater was THE TALENTED MR. RIPLEY.)

I try to keep up with music, but I keep buying old stuff that I do a better job of keeping up with. (Recent purchases: LIVERPOOL SOUND COLLAGE [Super Furry Animals' Beatles remixes], THE GREAT LOST SUN RA ALBUMS [on Evidence], BAREFOOT BOY [Larry Coryell, finally!] & LIFEHOUSE ELEMENTS [Pete Townshend]. And, oh yes, I like P. J. Harvey because she likes [or she's like] Capt. Beefheart!)

And I love absinthe. And poetry. And geeks (I mean REAL geeks, as in NIGHTMARE ALLEY, sideshow variety).

By Hugo Ball on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Hey, when you said "best R'N'R movie ever" I instantly thought of GREAT ROCK'N'ROLL SWINDLE. Hands down, the best. I saw FILTH AND FURY and it was quite nice, but a straight documentary on the Sex Pistols is ultimately a bad idea. SWINDLE remains the best representation of the Sex Pistols. And way more entertaining than any other Rock Movie.

By Marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:06 pm: Edit

Midas,

Have you seen the Sex Pistols biopic, THE FILTH AND THE FURY? There's early footage of Siouxsie in it.

Are you a p.j. harvey fan?

By Marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:01 pm: Edit

Here's my list of favorite films of the year, so far:

ALMOST FAMOUS - a great rock and roll film with a big heart.

GLADIATOR - an old-school epic that uses modern technology to create a mind-blowing spectacle.

JESUS' SON - Denis Johnson's terrific novel makes the transition to the screen and it works.

HIGH FIDELITY - another fine novel that gets a stellar big screen treatment.

POLA X - Leos Carax, the enfant terrible of contemporary French cinema, tells the tale of a young novelist's decent into madness. Surreal, silly and ultimately unforgettable.

HUMANITY - A three hour Bressonian study of a child murderer. Slow and haunting.

MY BEST FIEND - Werner Herzog's affectionate documentary on his friend and arch-nemesis Klaus Kinski.

SAVING GRACE - Brenda Blethyn is wonderful in this farce about a matronly pot dealer.

I have not seen DANCER IN THE DARK yet, but I have high hopes for it.


Musts to avoid:

BUCK AND CHUCK - Arthouse swill.

MISSION TO MARS - DePalma should stick to imitating Hitchcock cause he sure can't do Kubrick.

WHAT LIES BENEATH - A bloated haunted house movie that is overlong and underscripted. There are however a couple of decent shocks.

MISSION IMPOSSIBLE 2 - John Woo's been there done that. A catalogue of his cinematic trademarks: slo-mo, pidgeons, homoerotism, over-the-top gunplay...nothing new.

THE PERFECT STORM - Cliches helped sink this waterlogged turkey.

By Anatomist1 on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 11:29 am: Edit

I hope they do a better job of casting than the last Vampire Chron. movie. I can't even bring myself to watch it. If I want to look at Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise, I'll rent "Cocktail" or pick up a copy of Tiger Beat... Speaking of Vampire flicks, has anyone ever seen "The Addiction"? Of course, nothing beats the Vampire Chronicles, although when she started to leave Lestat out, I started to lose interest... It's good that they skipped the second book, because all that stuff with "Satan's Night Out" is bound to come off lame on screen -- best left to the imagination...

I'm keen on Radiohead. I can't buy the new one 'till next week. I'm a little concerned about the stratospheric hype levels surrounding them these days: it's ruined tougher rockers in the past.

Personally, my musical tastes have headed in the Lo-fi direction these days. I'm big on alt.country and post-punk fem stuff like Sleater-Kinney and Helium (whose Magic City CD is the most surprising, fearlessly imaginitive recording I've heard since... well, since Sleater Kinney's latest).

If y'all ain't got the new Ryan Adams disc yet, now is the time. All stripped down: he's the best solo singer-songwriter since the heydays of Lennon and Dylan. I saw him play in Chicago this past weekend. It was so quiet you could hear yourself breathing -- we were all dumbfounded. Music like this isn't performed, it's channeled.

These are two current genres that maintain the magic and fight commodification. There are still many intimate, live shows to be attended, and the recordings themselves feel much less mediated than live shows in big venues.

Speaking of immediacy, anyone up for a little Hakim Bey read and discuss?

K.

By Midas on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 11:09 am: Edit

Ok. It's due to come out next year, it's being filmed in Australia, and it's an amalgam of The Vampire Lestat & QotD. It's got most of the characters in both books in it, Louis being the exception. The basic plot of the film is that Lestat is woken from his torpor by Satans Night out, he joins them (a la TVL), and their music wakes all the elder vampires, who in the film have gone to ground as well. Of course their music wakes Those Who Must Be Kept, and the fun ensues. Apparrently there's a great scene that shows Khayman rising from the sands in Egypt, as a guy on a camel rides past, playing Lestat & SNO on a transistor radio.
In the film, Jesse is a 17 year old member of the Talamasca based in London who is obsessed with Lestat (played by Stuart Townsend), and goes off to follow him, and prove he's what he says he is.
I actually went for an audition for a part in Satans Night Out, but didn't get it. At least Matt got the part he went for. I'm hoping to get tix to the premiere.
Check out http://www.adelaide.net.au/~vampvan/ for all the current info and rumours.
-Robert.

By tcsmit on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 09:25 am: Edit

A movie version of "Queen of the Damned"? Please do give more info. I am a big fan of Rice and I've heard nothing about this. My interest is certainly piqued!

By Midas on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 07:41 am: Edit

Marc, fabulous idea for a thread. It's a great chance to share my uber exciting experience of the last couple of weeks. I finally got to meet one of my idols, Siouxsie Sioux, as The Creatures were touring Australia. And don't believe all the "she's such a bitch" rumours floating around. From my experience, she's truly lovely and down to earth. And she likes Deva.
She even signed my arm when I showed her the Siouxsie and the Banshees tat I have. I'm still on a high from meeting her. I hate being starstruck, but I'm finding it hard to fight.
Oh, and for anyone that's interested, a friend of mine, Matthew Newton, is playing Armand in the 'movie version' of Queen of the Damned that starts production in Melbourne in two weeks.
-Robert.

By Absinthedrinker on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 06:16 am: Edit

Peter

Well I don't think Jim was about that weekend but I did pick up a few bits and pieces for my collection. There was very little at the market at Ouen and the prices were sky high. However it was worth the trip just to look at all the Art Nouveau pieces they had. One stall was literally wall to wall with Louis Icart paintings and prints, and as he is probably my favourite lithographer from the period, I was in heaven. I didn't dare ask the prices though as it didn't look like the stall to be selling bargains.

I got most of my absinthe items at the flea market in the south of Paris (I can't remember the name just now) where they still seem to understand the concept of bartering.

By peter marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 05:52 am: Edit

c'est dommage, encore...absinthedrinker
we'll have to link up sometime...how did you
do on your search? (for jim m./paraphernalia)

By Absinthedrinker on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 05:39 am: Edit

Peter

I wish that I knew you were in Paris before. I was over there a couple of weeks ago on an weekend break/absinthe paraphernalia shopping trip. It would have been easy to put a bottle or two in my bags.

We stayed in Montparnasse which is where I always seem to end up when I am in Paris, drinking Martini's in the Rosebud Bar and watching for the ghost of Jim Morrison.

By peter marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 05:10 am: Edit

absinthedrinker-
you are a true gentleman...and the offer is
in reverse should you be looking for an antique
glass, spoon, etc.(if i can help you)or just
a good french meal/wine/atmosphere. but i know that you have no problems with french wine in england,
the choice is better there and almost always
cheaper...c'est dommage pour moi...

By Absinthedrinker on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 03:52 am: Edit

Peter

Just pop on the Eurostar and come over to London. I'd be pleased to show you some bars and restaurants and you can stock up on as much zinfandel and La Fée as you can carry!

Absinthedrinker

By peter marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 03:49 am: Edit

marc
bravo, it was getting a little too freaky
for me. i can't get absinthe(without physically
leaving the country) or good zinfandel
(without paying a ransom) so what year was it?
i have some friends from san francisco coming to paris for new years and they can export it along, with a stop over in uk for la fée. thanks for the oxygénée...

By Marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 03:16 am: Edit

Just continue to be as cool as you are. This absinthe forum needs a place for all us cool cats and kitties to relax and hang. We need a respite from all the heavy duty commerce and machismo of certain other threads. This joint is for the heavy-lidded, tripped-out sensualists to gather.
It's a low testosterone hang. I truly believe that absinthe is a feminine thang. Light and faery-like. I'm fed up with all the pissing contests that have dominated this site. It's time to dance it like we talk it. AFTER HOURS is a sanctuary . Relax. Go with the flow.

I ain't being ironic. It's time to change the tone in this site. Let's have some fun. Harsh reality ain't welcome in our living room.

By Absinthedrinker on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:56 am: Edit

My hangover feels better already!

You are a star, how may I reciprocate?

Absinthedrinker

By Marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:46 am: Edit

absinthedrinker,

I have your address. A bottle is in the mail.
I love cultural exchange.

By Absinthedrinker on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:41 am: Edit

Not a zin I am familiar with, I don't think it is exported to the UK. To be honest it is before hours and I have a hangover from the night before which is stopping me getting down to work.

I haven't heard Kid A yet, but I expect it will be good.

Absinthedrinker

By Marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:37 am: Edit

Bayliss & Fortune Vineyards
Mendocino County.

Absinthedrinker,

It's a pleasure to see you here after hours.
Have you heard the new Radiohead album?

By Absinthedrinker on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:30 am: Edit

Good morning Marc, how's the zinfandel?

Absinthedrinker

By Marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:19 am: Edit

Alright! ALMOST FAMOUS is the best rock and roll movie ever made. It ain't the most honest, it ain't the realest, but, like a great pop song, it captures the power and glory of rock and roll. This poetic slab of cinema replicates that moment
when one realizes that rock and roll is magic, that it can and will change your life. ALMOST FAMOUS is about that mystical era (the 60's and early 70's) when rock meant something. It's a celebration of a time when music was magic, not just merchandise.

By Marc on Thursday, September 28, 2000 - 02:10 am: Edit

This is the place to come and hang and talk about
stuff: pop culture, fine arts and everything in between. Everyone is welcome: painters, poets, film buffs, rock and rollers, losers, lovers and geeks. Step up to the mike. Declare yourself.

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