Sad Days

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: Old Topics Archived Thru Sep 2000:Sad Days
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Archive through June 15, 2000  6   06/15 09:25pm

By Artemis on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Blackjack, if you can't tell if he was sure, you're hardly in a position to judge your own state of "enlightenment", much less Crowley's!!

Chrysippvs, most of Crowley's work on majick was intended for initiates, and in particular initiates to his own system of Golden Dawn - A:A: - OTO disciplines. It's therefore impenetrable to even intelligent, worldly readers who aren't solidly grounded in those systems. If you're looking for easy to understand books on majick by Crowley, there aren't any.

Anatomist1, you're in luck, because none of the above bears upon that for which you asked, which was fun to read stuff by Old Uncle Al. His autobiography is fun to read. It doesn't dwell on majick, and when he discusses majick, it's frequently in an accessible, conversational style. He talks about Fin de Siecle France, about his travels all over the world, about mountain climbing, about politics, just about everything, with style and good humour.

Some of his poetry is masterful - my favorite is the "Book of Lies". One poem in particular, "Onion Peelings", elucidates the argument I made to Blackjack above in humorous and stunning fashion. Big Mango Don and I have discussed another poem from that collection, "The Red Lips of the Octopus", and Don drew a very interesting parallel to certain woodcuts by Hokusai!

I also recommend Crowley's work as contributing editor to "The International" circa 1917-18. His editorial in favor of legal cocaine holds up as well today as it did then in terms of logic, and is wonderfully politically incorrect to boot. He also wrote most of the magazine under various pseudonyms, including some decent fiction that draws on Frazer's "The Golden Bough". Some of his "Simon Iff" detective stories appear there too, but I find those turgid and uninspired.

Though obviously full of himself to a dangerous extent (reminds me of somebody I see in the mirror from time to time), Crowley was a man for all seasons and all times, a vastly underestimated genius. Uncle Al has something for everybody, and I for one am grateful that he's like absinthe - not in every corner bar. Seek and ye shall find.

By blackjack on Tuesday, July 25, 2000 - 02:59 pm: Edit

One of the great signs of enlightenment is the ability to know when Crowley was being serious and when he was messing with your head. The problem comes, in his later years, I don't know if he was himself sure.

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Aside from Crowley's work on the Enochian stuff developed by John Dee he seems more or less like he doesn't really take himself seriously..like it was a great experiment in shock..even shocked the Golden Dawn by forming the OTO. Just seems a bit insincere to me from what I have read...

Anyone ever read Meric Cauasabon's transcription of John Dee's diary..it is a rare find but it is the most fascinating thing since the Voynich MS..

I have to get away from the Aquinas and the Maimondes every once in a while..

J

By Marc on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 04:50 pm: Edit

Anatomist1,

The Beast Demystified by Roger Hutchinson
is a new biography on Crowley. It attempts to seperate the man from the myth. It's thin volume, but is well-researched and written.

By Anatomist1 on Thursday, July 20, 2000 - 01:59 pm: Edit

Regarding Crowley, I too have been a long-time fan. But find most of most of his writings too abstruse and solipsistic to hold my interest. The gleaming exception, of course, is Diary of a Drug Fiend. Moonchild was OK. Since my days of actually trying to conjure spirits in junior high, I haven't run across more than a paragraph or two that was much fun to read, aside from the Absinthe and Hashish pieces, the latter of which deteriorates quite rapidly.

Does anyone have any suggestions on good Crowley stuff to read? Has anyone attempted a decent biography of him?

By malhomme on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 11:12 pm: Edit

I just wanted to add my two cents about artemesias and hallucinations...

Though I have never hallucinated from true absinthe (home or purchased), I have hallucinated from artemesia concoctions.

***********OBNOXIOUS DISCLAIMER***********
***I DO NOT ADVISE THAT ANY ONE DO THIS***
**********THIS IS NOT ABSINTHE************

I made a concoction nine or so years ago macerating Artemesia ludoviciana (aka Western Mugwort) in a bottle of Pernod. One cold winter night I went for a walk in the rolling hills just south of Waco and set about drinking my potion. I had consumed all 750ml of my potion within a couple of hours. I could of killed myself.
What did I see...
A night's round of stars over Arles. The sky spinning, cedar trees being twisted up into the sky, distant lights jumping-out at me, the feeling that I was being hunted by a wolf that was the sky. I wanted to crawl into the bushes and hide, hunt rabbits, hide from the sky...
I passed out, woke at sunrise and was depressed/paranoid as hell for about a week.

I've done (my weight in) shrooms, two different kinds of daturas, LSD, mescal beans, coral beans... so I know a mind-bender when I have one. The artemesia experience was one of the most thorough and intense. Of the soft stuff.

I know this wasn't absinthe, nor was it really meant to be, but it does illustrate the hallucinegenic capacity of an artemesia. I didn't see tulips growing out of the floor, that doesn't mean I couldn't have.
m

By Don 'Hubris' Walsh on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 07:10 am: Edit

I must agree. If Crowley was crazy, Lord, give me some of that too.

By Artemis on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 04:43 am: Edit

For the record, Crowley apparently never drank absinthe until he did so in New Orleans and penned his masterpiece about it. He possibly never drank it again. His massive autobiography says not a word about drinking it in France. It seems he favored Cognac, but couldn't handle liquor very well - I have an obscure article written by a Brit who met him late in Crowley's life, and Crowley's female companion told this guy he should not have given Crowley liquor, because even small amounts tended to make him pass out. Of course, old Uncle Al was "rode hard and put up wet" at that stage of his life, too.

As to talking to his Willie, he also talked to Isis, etc. When I see anybody on this forum with the brainpower and eloquence of Uncle Al, I'll cut them some slack for talking to rocks, I don't care.

BMD, drop me a line. Justin, in case you didn't get my response - no I never said that about Le Vannoir, or anything remotely like that. Whoever probed my machine for an FTP connection just now, if you're reading this, nice try but my firewall protects me like any circle of guardians ever conjured by Uncle Al.

By Artemis on Sunday, July 16, 2000 - 04:39 am: Edit

For the record, Crowley apparently never drank absinthe until he did so in New Orleans and penned his masterpiece about it. He possibly never drank it again. His massive autobiography says not a word about drinking it in France. It seems he favored Cognac, but couldn't handle liquor very well - I have an obscure article written by a Brit who met him late in Crowley's life, and Crowley's female companion told this guy he should not have given Crowley liquor, because even small amounts tended to make him pass out. Of course, old Uncle Al was "rode hard and put up wet" at that stage of his life, too.

As to talking to his Willie, he also talked to Isis, etc. When I see anybody on this forum with the brainpower and eloquence of Uncle Al, I'll cut them some slack for talking to rocks, I don't care.

BMD, drop me a line. Justin, in case you didn't get my response - no I never said that about Le Vannoir, or anything remotely like that.

By Marc on Saturday, July 15, 2000 - 06:16 pm: Edit

blackjack,

Are you saying that if I talk to my penis, while drinking absinthe, I will hallucinate? Cool!

By Chrysippvs on Saturday, July 15, 2000 - 07:57 am: Edit

It must also be noted that out of the over 200 absinthes floating around Paris only 3 or 4 were from reputable distillers. Pernot, Perre Noe, J Pernod, E Pernot, Pernot Fils, Berger Fils and the list goes on and on of rip off brands from the classic leaders such as Pernod Fils, E. Pernod, Berger, Duval, and A. Junod...

Since there was no FDA these rips off brands could use literally anything they wanted to in their products..often adding chemicals and very poor grade alcohol...I am sure after three glasses of something laced with antimony Chloride and Sinc Sulfate we all might see things...and this was the absinthe being sold for pennies to Verlaine, Rimbaud, Wilde (remember the tulip story?) and Crowley (who was psycho enough without absinthe, cocaine, hashish, etc...).

Also some manners of distillation, from what I understand can produce some rather potent absinthes.

I don't think it is worth it to "trip out" if it means ingesting some of the things that were in 90% of the absinthe in Paris in 1913..

J

By blackjack on Saturday, July 15, 2000 - 07:42 am: Edit

Keep in mind that a lot of the folks who attributed hallucinations to Absinthe were prone to hallucinations anyway...Crowley talked to his penis fer crissakes...

Absinthe certainly seems to produce different effects than other forms of alcohol, but then, in my observation, most drinks have their own personality. Beer is stupid, burboun is surly, Tequila is boisterous, wine is relaxing, gin is dark and sardonic, etc. Why? Some combination of the by-products of its production, the non-alcohol ingredients and, I suspect, the traditional means of administration. Doing shots is prone to get you in a different mood than sipping wine or chugging at a kegger...

By Don Walsh on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 10:42 pm: Edit

Excellent, Marc! Awareness is the mother of all wisdom (as Saddam Hussein might say.)

We are all I guess, confused and conflicted about absinthe, for the reasons you mentioned. The myth and the reality don't match at all. I don't know anyone other than Tes and maybe Absintheur, who have tasted antique absinthes, and I suspect that they had only small quantities (to do otherwise would be extravagant indeed.) And I don't believe they hallucinated. Anyone else out there who has had the old stuff pls speak up, and if I have misstated Ted and Absintheur's experiences, I long for correction from them directly.

By Marc on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 12:36 pm: Edit

Don,

I was clear and consistent in stating that "modern commercial absinthe is not hallucinagenic". Having never drunk vintage absinthe, there is no way for me to make a judgement regarding it's mind-altering properties.
The only thing I have to go on is the literature
of that era (early 1900's), which would certainly lead one to believe there is more to absinthe than just an alcohol high.

This is the first time, that I can recall, that you have stated your reasons for loving absinthe. Your experience with absinthe echoes my own. There is a clarity and an energizing quality to absinthe that I do not experience with other
booze. And your right about the absence of hangover, at least with 4 glasses or less.

Your description of your absinthe experience is some of your finest writing and I appreciate it.

As for me being all over the map on absinthe, you're right to a degree. I am conflicted about this drink and confused. What I have read and what I experience don't jive. As a lifelong psychonaut, I would love to have transcendent experiences on absinthe. Alas, I do not.

Wormwood,

Yes, I'm aware that "Wormwood: A Drama Of Paris" is hackwork.Hoever,it does represent some of the thinking of the time regarding absinthe's trippier elements. Wrong or right.





'

By Don Walsh on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 10:27 am: Edit

Dear Marc

In response to your question:

I am attracted to a Romantic liqueur, one hardly available, almost forgotten, one whose demonization almost a century ago was/is so effective that people who do remember it, think it is embodiment of a variety of many evils...

Did I notice any difference from other drinks? I can only respond meaningfully about the 3 liters of (NEITHER Betina's nor Justin's) La Bleue and many liters of my own (Ted's recipe) that I have had.

I found the alcohol cleaner, hangover-free. I found the intoxication 'clearer' and much less stupifying. I found and still find a persistent effect of vivid dreaming. For THAT alone I would cherish the drink. The other effects I attribute to the lack of cogeners in the alcohol. The dreams I attribute to the herbal oils.

The flavor is subtle, in the better absinthes, and very pleasant. Cooling, complex, and fun. As I have posted I also drink Chartreuse and Benedictine. No special dreaming from these.

FYI I remember my maternal grandmother in New Orleans (b.1898-d.1989) telling me she LOVED absinthe, and I remember there was an unlabeled bottle of a green liqueur in the house. She claimed it was Creme de Menthe. I am not sure. She liked to make brandy alexanders on occasion, but, maybe she was keeping an old bottle of Green Fairy for herself.

Yeah I'd drink it for flavor alone, really. But the dreams are a bonus.

Man, I'm an old SF and horror writer. Professionally. If I was experiencing the effects your citations describe I'd be frigging ecstatic.

But I'm not.

YOU said, just a few posts down, that anyone who said modern absinthe was hallucinogenic was a liar, and anyone who was seling absinthe and claimed that was a liar and a thief.

THEN you posted and said that maybe old absinthe WAS hallucinogenic.

Well, we make "old absinthe in new bottles" and it ain't.

Don't you think that holding out the FALSE HOPE that absinthe might be hallucinogenic if only there was enough thujone in it, would only enourage the deluded to proceed to pump up absinthe or pastis with thujone rich herbal oils, and hurt themselves, which is EXACTLY what you were just polemicizing against (me too.) Don't you see an illogic there in your position? "You have met the enemy and it is you."

No you're not my enemy, or the enemy of anyone on this Forum as far as I know, or the enemy of absinthe, BUT you do seem to be engaged in a circular debate.

Pls pick a side. Watching you gyrate is highly confusing.

And I say that as a buddy!

By Mr. Wormwood on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 05:18 am: Edit

Marie Corelli may have written a book about absinthe published during absinthe's heyday, but she was no absintheur.

She stated she would never drink it and calls it "poision" in the forward of her book. She also goes on to state as a decent woman she has not entered many of the locals and establishments in her novel. Much of her research about what goes on in these places was from an conversation on a train she overheard between two men who had.

I would be much more inclined to belive the writings of Barymore, Crowley and Wilde and others because they drank the stuff. Halucenations are a known symptom of alcoholism, not any particular flavor of alcohol. Maybe some of the natural stimulants in absinthe allowed these drunks to remain awake for these effects when they would usually pass out.

I have read alot American prohibitionist era literature both pro and con. It seems to fall in the same two catagorys as absinthe literature did after that was banned and noone drank it anymore one of two extreams.

If you were against it: Liquor was the devils piss. It made normal loving parents kill their children in drunken rages. People would halucenate snakes crawling on the ceiling after drinking. One drink and you are addicted, doomed in a downward spiral to debachery until they found you dead in the street in a puddle of your own vomit.

If you were for it: Booze was mothers milk. It made men happy and it was banned by a bunch of miserable spinsters, clergymen and old biddys who hate to see people enjoying themselves as God intended us to do. The lord himself chose to create 6 huge barrels of wine for a wedding celebration as his first mircle. The men who wrote the constitution, fought the wars that made us free and tamed the wild west all drank. This country will never be great again and this economic depression will not end until we can drink agian.

By Absinthedrinker on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 01:52 am: Edit

I agree with what both Marc and Don have said - sitting on the fence is perhaps appropriate given my geographical location approximately half way between them. I had great expectations when I first tried absinthe, built up over a quarter of a century since I had heard about it at school studying art. Of course the 'experience' was not as dramatic as I had expected but I enjoyed the taste. Whenever friends have asked about absinthe or tried it for the first time I find it difficult to walk the line between over-romanticizing it and dispelling the psychedelic hype that they have picked up. Inevitably those expecting a 'drug' experience go away disappointed. I too wonder just what Crowley, Wilde et al were getting from the drink to come up with the descriptions that they did. The absintheures of the Belle Epoque period were no strangers to mind altering drugs such as cannabis and opium so they too would have been in a position to compare its effects subjectively. So for me it is a great drink with a romantic and slightly dark history, I particularly enjoyed it when I took a bottle down to the south of France and drank it as it was intended, as an apperitif to sip during the heur verte, watching the world go by outside a cafe.

Absinthedrinker

By Marc on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 12:32 am: Edit

Don,

Do you notice a difference in the high you get from absinthe and the high you get from drinking other liquors?

Is there anything other than the taste, that attracts you to absinthe?

By Marc on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 12:26 am: Edit

"I drank till the soilid wall of my own room
appeared to me like transparent glass
shot through with emerald flame".

from Wormwood: A Drama Of Paris

"After the first glass you see things as you wish they were.
After the second you see things as they are not.
Finally, you see things as they really are.

Oscar Wilde


"...and sip the icy opal; endure till all things change insensibly before your eyes, you changing with them...

Aleister Crowley, on absinthe


Don,

what are we to make of these descriptions of
absinthe? And these are but three examples of many such writings on the effects of the Green Fairy.

By Don Walsh on Friday, July 14, 2000 - 12:03 am: Edit

I think there is a middle ground between de-romanticizing absinthe (I am not sure such a thing would be possible anyway) and doing our best to distance absinthe from controlled substances.

By Don Walsh on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 11:59 pm: Edit

Marc,

Sorry to disappoint you, but, the fact is that the absinthe Ted and I make has precisely the wormwood content (in terms of the A.absinthium that goes into the product) of premium absinthe (e.g., E.Pernod) of a century ago. None of us who are drinking it, are hallucinating. As to what has or has not been 'established' about thujone levels then, now, and in between, well, there is guesswork from Arnold, which is too high, there is the report from Mr Wormwood, which was fatally flawed and erroneous, unfortunately, and there is offhand speculation. That's all there is. The people who know aren't saying. The people who don't know, can talk a blue streak without saying anything meaningful on the subject.

Absinthe isn't hallucinogenic. Unless you wish to consider alcohol in sufficient quantity, so. Delerium is not hallucination.

By Marc on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 09:54 pm: Edit

Don,

In the past I have been careful not to compare absinthe to psychedelic drugs, not because I am afraid of letting the genie out of the bottle, but, because in reality there is no comparison.
What I have said, though, is people are drawn to absinthe because of the myth of a drug-like effect. This effect may indeed have been present in the absinthe of yesteryear due to a thujone content that has been estimated to be ten times that of the commercial absinthe we drink today.
With that kind of potency then perhaps Oscar Wilde did see those flowers growing out of the
barroom floor. People read the wonderful accounts of poets and artists having mystical reveries while drinking absinthe and they too want the experience. It is the illicit nature of absinthe and it's mythical, magical properties that make this forum such a popular hangout.

When I tell friends I have absinthe, their eyes light up and invariably they ask me for some.
They also want to know how intense the experience will be. Will they be able to walk? Is there a danger of overdose? Does it contain opium?
Does drinking absinthe on a regular basis lead to madness? etc. etc. etc. These are intelligent adults. The myths and lies and romance of absinthe are pervasive. And while I love the intrigue and mystery surrounding absinthe, I also don't want to mislead people. But, I also don't want to take the drama away from the drink. Part of the pleasure of drinking absinthe is in the
excitement in feeling that you are part of a secret society, that you are linked in some cosmic way to Verlaine, Rimbaud, Wilde and Hemingway. One of the reasons I think the Goth
community is into absinthe is because it's the "drink of the doomed". An elixir associated with decadence, death and divine madness. All this is quite fun. Do we really want to de-romanticize absinthe and turn it into a drink that has all the mystery of vodka? While I don't want people to be misinformed about absinthe, I also don't want, in an effort to dispell the untruths, to destroy the myths that are so much a part of absinthe's allure. So, let's allow ourselves a little poetic license in discussing absinthe. Let's not rule out the possibilty that one might see God while drinking the Green Fairy.Hell, given the right circumstances, one might see God while drinking Ovaltine. Because God, like Elvis, is everywhere.

By Marc on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 08:59 pm: Edit

the end of my post should have read

"M. Roux is running a scam by calling himself a doctor. He's a latter day snake oil salesman."

By Marc on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 08:57 pm: Edit

Don,

M.Roux actually makes a fine tasting liquor that I happen to really like called "Elisir du
Dr. Roux". It contains about 20 herbs and has wonderful taste. I bought a bottle not realizing who the manufacturer was. When Ted Breaux alerted me to the fact it was Michel Roux's product I decided to boycott it. It's too bad because I really dig it. But, even with this product, M. Roux is running a scam by calling himself a doct

By Don Walsh on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Dear Black Rabbit

Yes, I know about the guy in the Northwest. I believe he drank about 10 cc's of wormwood essential oil, which shut down his hepatic system.

That being said, I counter your full nelson and use the Klingon death grip. The usual look of agonized surprise, closely akin to someone who has received notice of an IRS audit, crosses your face, then your eyes glaze over and you slump to the matt. The crowd goes berserk.

And

Dear Marc

Yes, I don't like M.Roux's little game either. However short of seeing federal regulation of herbs and herbal products, which I do NOT syggest is a good idea, I don't see how to stop him. There is no Federal Anti Sleaze Act. If there was, Washington DC would be a ghost town.

By Marc on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Don and Black Rabbit,

I do want to be make something clear.
I have tried just about every drug known to man and, for the most part, enjoyed them all. I believe that certain psychedelics, particularly peyote and LSD, are valuable tools for
self-realization. Psychedelics must be used wisely, one must respect their powers.

Anybody who who approaches absinthe with the expectation that they are going to have a psychedelic experience is going to be hugely
disappointed. Anybody who makes false claims to the psychedelic effects of absinthe is a liar.
Anybody who sells absinthe as a psychedelic is a liar and a thief.

I just received my first bottle of Herring Absinthe. It's very similar to the anise and citrus flavor of Philip LaSala, except it has a bitter aftertaste. Wormwood, I presume.

By Black Rabbit on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 01:28 pm: Edit

The scenario you both mention has in fact already occured a couple few years back (link below.) A fellow ordered a bottle of essential oil of wormwood, drank it, and of course his kidneys failed. He hallucinated, all right. Made a big stink, and unfavorable attention was given the Green Fairy. I think the only way around this is education. We can't afford to blow off the silly asses who ask if it's a good idea... and hopefully they will do the minimal research to find this forum before they do it.

http://www.gumbopages.com/nejm.html

Suprisingly sober, dignified post, wasn't it? But it was just a ruse! Black Rabbit puts Don in a full nelson! HA! ;)

By Marc on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 10:47 am: Edit

Don,

your concern about somebody poisoning themselves with wormwood oil is particularly relevant considering M. Roux's new Absente Wormwood product. Roux has the the ability to promote this product in ways that small herb companies do not.
Imagine somebody buying Roux's wormwood extract,
adding too much of it to a bottle of Absente and ending up convulsing in an emergency room.
Do I suggest banning herbs and oils? Absolutely not! I suggest we continue to do what's being done in this forum, sharing the truth about absinthe.

By Don Walsh on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 04:27 am: Edit

Dear Marc

Actually I'm delighted that you have come around to my own viewpoint on this. I suppose that CBS special someone referred to (about teenagers buying booze on the Net) maybe had jogged your thinking a bit?

I'd be particularly worried about wormwood oils, essences, extracts, etc. as some kid looking for pretty colors in his head could easily end up in an emergency room, ICU or a morgue and then the shit would hit the fan.

Whether they were mixing with vodka, pastis, everclear, or nothing at all, handly matters does it? As far as the press will be concerned they will have been 'making absinthe'.

Juvenile shenanigans with Everclear and grape juice (Purple Passion) have gotten 95% neutral spirits banned from many states already. Can't be had on the entire West Coast. I think also no-go in NY and Conn.

But what to do?

Would you support regulating essential oils and derivatives? Herbs themselves? I can hear the screams of outrage already. No, I'm not proposing such a thing myself.

And BTW, the drinking song was a one shot post. The wrestling schtick, which I loathe, goes on and on. Hardly comparable.

By Marc on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 11:42 pm: Edit

Don,

Lord man, how was I to know you were referring to a post that was a month old? I'm close to 50 years old and the brain cells governing memory are the first to go.
The misinformation I am concerned about is exactly the same misinformation that you're concerned about. I am disturbed by the trend among some absinthe dealers to make claims for the psychedelic properties of absinthe in order to sell their wares. It is not only dishonest but it is waving a red flag in the rabid snouts of
the powers that be. In the past few days, a deadhead named jah boasted about how he's been selling shots of Deva for $25 at hippy gatherings.
The only reason people are paying that kind of money is because they are being told that they are going to have a mindbending experience. It's a scam.

I'm going to have to go back and check out that June 12 post. But, I am rather certain that my concerns were the same then as they are now.

The drug/absinthe connection is going to lure some young kid into buying absinthe on the internet. Using his parents credit card, he'll order a bottle of Deva. He'll drink it, get fucked up and do something seriously wrong. The
kind of thing some idiots do when they're drunk:
wreck a car, rape somebody or even kill. His parents hire a lawyer who uses an "absinthe defense" to keep his client out of jail. Suddenly headlines read "Teenager Rapes Girlfriend While High On Banned Liquor". It happened once with absinthe, it could happen again.

It is not my intent to be an alarmist. My post of June 12th was my way of explaining why some folks in the forum are against talking about drugs in the forum, like yourself.

As far as the wrestling goes, lighten up. I don't get my knickers in a twist when you're belting out your song parodies. And let me tell you, you ain't no Tom Jones.

By Don Walsh on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 11:09 pm: Edit

Marc:

In a post dated June 12 you said: "I am genuinely concerned with the misinformation propagated in this forum." So I am asking: WHAT misinformation? Why can't you articulate what you are genuinely concerned about, specifically? Citing examples. Just so the rest of us know. Your post was alarmist but vague as hell.

It seems to me that for someone who has been the tireless defender of untrammelled free speech on this Forum, it it an odd stance for you to take. What "standards" do you suggest?

I'm the one who has been equally tirelessly pleading for avoidance of confusing absinthe with controlled substances in the DEA sense. Black Rabbit seems to be agreeing with that position. (Although I wish he would drop the puerile wrestling schtick you started.)

Nah poo, this ain't a flame. I am just asking Marc a question. Also kindly ixnay on the wrestling bunk.

By Black Rabbit on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 04:07 pm: Edit

suddenly, LE GROS MANGO DON is hit over the back of the head with a folding chair! It is 'The Black Rabbit' jumping illegally into the ring!

I think I know what he means man- remember that whole deal where there was the good Sebor guy and the bad Sebor guy and it was like when captain Kirk got split into two people on Star Trek and no one knew what the hell was going on?

Stuff like that.

Or 'yeah man, I got some wormwood and I smoked it in my bong and I was like, tripping my ass off man...' (yeah, no one's posted that *yet* but you just know it's coming...)

Misinformation is bad on the forum, but almost always flamed into a fine ash. But outside the forum, that's where The Man lives, and we don't want him thinking absinthe is a drug like LSD. At least, I don't. I don't want him thinking about it at all.

The Black Rabbit jumps out of the ring! Aren't his tights snappy!

By Nah Poo on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 11:11 am: Edit

Wait Big Mango, don't get all a-flamey just yet.
We don't have a catchy wrestlin' name for marc,
and the tickets haven't been printed, or the cage
reinforced... but first the name. I humbly submit:

MARCO THE CLUB ('Don't Make Him Show You')

VS

LE GROS MANGO DON (formerly known as 'the Cajun
Queen')

By Marc on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 11:04 am: Edit

Don,

I am unclear as to what your post means.
What list might you be interested in and what misinformation are your referring too?

I am reading a book called "Papal Sin"
about the misuse of religious power by popes and the Vatican. The Catholic Church is a perfect example of religious fascism. Inquisitions anyone?

By Don Walsh on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 02:16 am: Edit

I am very curious about what 'misinformation' Marc is in high dudgeon about.

Kindly show us your little list, Marc.

By Marc on Tuesday, July 11, 2000 - 11:01 pm: Edit

fellraven

I'd hate to see the powers that be (government, religions etc.) demonize and attempt to destroy
the new absinthe subculture the way they have
modern witchcraft, paganism and even fundamentalist Christian groups. If the American government doesn't agree with your lifestyle they can destroy it. Look at what happened in Waco.

I'd rather fly above or below their radar so that I can continue to enjoy the magic in my life.

By Crazy Absinthe Guy on Tuesday, July 11, 2000 - 10:09 pm: Edit

A. Don't worry it's not "Kewl" (it's "Expensive")
B. Far from "Magickal" (there's hardly any wormwood left)
C. Old Guard, New Guard? What's the Point?

Secret societies, private clubs, us-them, who cares? There's always someone that is going to look down their pinnochio snoot at the other "fella".

Like I just did...

By Fellraven on Tuesday, July 11, 2000 - 10:54 am: Edit

As a newcomer to this forum, I am going stick my neck out and comment that what hippy describes in his (her?) post of 12th June is only too typical of what happens when something which has been "underground" suddenly becomes "kewl" and emerges from the realms of the esoteric into those of the exoteric. The "mystery", in its widest sense, invariably suffers as new bodies pile in looking for, well, they don't quite understand what, but hey! it's their right participate and *understand* - right?

Over the past decade or so I've seen the "kewlness" invade the pagan and, to a lesser extent, the "magickal" communities, on both sides of the Atlantic, though particularly in the US. The desirable is quickly commodified and turned into a consumer item (in all the wrong ways or senses) and before you know it you are surrounded by 13-year-olds demanding their "magickal rites". "Cos I'm a real witch, you know. I've read a book."

The curiosity of the teenager is not something I would wish to underestimate, especially when they work out that singly they can buy a 6-pack but if they all bung a few quid in the kitty they can buy the strong stuff.

Answers? I don't have any, except to observe that the Old Guard (of which, in this community, I am not a member) frequently close ranks against the newcomers. And sometimes this is a Good Thing.

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