Archive through December 30, 2000

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: Topics Archived Thru Jan 2001:Favorite Beatles Song Ever.... :Archive through December 30, 2000
By Pataphysician on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 03:50 am: Edit

"Under the pavement is the beach."
- Situationist slogan

The Situationists believed that cities should be built linearly, say, constantly building westward. The old city would be abandoned and left to be reclaimed by nature, making a decaying, chaotic playground for urban-dwellers.

By Phouka on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 04:47 pm: Edit

"We build our cities on top of each other ..."
This was one of the things that struck me the most about Berlin when I was there this past Spring. Particularly in the area around Potsdammer Platz. All the layers that have come at a faster than usual pace there, and bits and fragments of the old layers are still sticking out from under the new even as they build the new temples of glass and steel to the consumer culture of today - here a rare remaining fragment of the Wall, there - a building from the Weimar era...

Alles nur künftige ruinen
Material für die nächste Schicht

(Everything just future ruins
Material for the next layer)

-Blixa Bargeld


Mind wandering, late at night
-M.

By Anatomist1 on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Don,

Thanks for you concern with my welfare, but I'm afraid my dissociation from these art forms is more well-informed, or experientially misinformed than you take into account. I've listened to Pavoratti and plenty of Mozart arias, and while I see an abundance of technical virtuosity there, it just doesn't grab me. I've seen Amadeus, and I find the character portrayed in the movie more compelling than the man, as experienced through his music. Once again, Mozart had abundant talent, but I find in his music a depressing lack of passion and verve. I'm a connoisseur of sadness, but the hollowness of depression is foreign to me.

In 1989, I ransacked the Houston Public Library's classical collection for months. I took home a twelve inch stack of LP's every week. I developed a great relationship with Beethoven, Bach, Schubert, Dvorak, Bartok, Brahms... even Debussy and Satie. I listened to 'classical' music almost exclusively for a couple of years. I have enjoyed every combination of instruments from a gigantic Wagnerian overture or a bludgeoning Bartok concerto with a symphony and 2 pianos, to the structural spareness of quartets, trios, and duets, down to quiet cello concerti. But, goddamnit, I fucking hate opera! What little opera I have appreciated, I have been thankful that I couldn't understand what they were saying. God save me from an opera in english, or with projected subtitles, for it only becomes exponentially more ludicrous. To me opera is a crude, rudimentary form of drama with music that I am content to let gather dust on a museum shelf next to Sumerian pottery. Bleah!!

K.

By Marc on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Don says

"the raw power grabbed me.

Well, at least he's an Iggy fan.

By Don_walsh on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 12:28 pm: Edit

Kallisti, right on!

We build our cities on top of each other and our cultures on top of each other and like to pretend that what is old exist in our heads and not under our feet.

How many New Yorks under NYC?

Old Seattle under Seattle? Underground Atlanta. Literally!

I'm with you. I came to opera late. And classical music late. Not as affectations but because the raw power grabbed me.

By Admin on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 11:37 am: Edit

To each their own! But I had a hard time swallowing opera for a long time, and then one day it just clicked. I woke up and swooned. Not that I know jack diddly about opera. But I know what I like.

My Uncle told me an interesting bit: he's a classical musician and a specialist in music history, and he said that opera was created by the Italians during the renaissance as a, what they thought, a reasonable facsimile of Greek/roman theatre, inspired by the mania following the discovery of "old rome" beneath the then current streets of the Rome they were familiar with. All they knew about Greek theatre is that there was some singing and a chorus. But of course Greek theatre is nothing like opera. It is fascinating to see how we are always re-inventing ourselves.

It was similar for renaissance painters as well, Boticelli and that lot were trying to recreate the spirit and freedom of the roman frescoes that had been buried for 1000 years.

By Don_walsh on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 10:51 am: Edit

Sorry Anatomist, if you have no culture. Take Bob Dylan over most poetry? Horseshit. 'Course you must pick and choose your poets, but, you must pick and choose your Dylan. Sturgeon's Law, General version: 90% of everything is shit.

Opera can be boring, opera can be great. Listen to Pavorati do Nesundorma from 'Turandot' sometime and you tell me you'd rather listen to "Like a Rolling Stone"?

Ballet I am less attuned to. But over the centuries even ballet was in and out of fashion in opera, sometimes even banned by the Viennese Court.

Go rent 'Amadeus'. Sit through it. Then tell me these art forms hold nothing for us in the 21st century. Mozart wrote operas and he wrote vulgar comedia.

Don't deny the past. Learn from it and celebrate it, move forward always, but just because something is old and strange and European doesn't make it irrelevant and worthless. There's enormous power and humor and pathos and tragedy in those art forms. A libretto in Italian or German of French shouldn't put you off so much. Usually the language becomes insignificant. If you don't like Mozart try La Boheme (hey, absintheurs for sure, drunks and whores and starving artists in garrets!). If you are a hopeless romantic Asian hand like me, try Madama Butterfly. Do you need Italian to feel it when ChoChoSan commits suicide (her infant at her side) just as her American lover returns, calling her name? Show me the dry eye in the house and I'll show you someone made of stone.

In the centuries before recording these WERE the musical theatre and the dance and the source of popular culture. And sometimes censored as politically radical! as in the case of The Barber of Seville'.

Go watch Carmen (La Traviatta -- The Worker Women) and tell me you can't see passion and jealousy as naked and condensed as in any art form ever? It cuts the audience as sharply as the knief in the libretto.

But I'll tell you this, when I was your age I'd have agreed with you. I was wrong. So are you.

By Don_walsh on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 09:54 am: Edit

Martin, I am delighted at your open mindedness. I have nothing against the Beatles or against the individuals, I certainly didn't wish John his doom. (He and I at least had a Japanese wife as a common grounding.) When they surfaced (to Americans) I saw it in real time, I saw the first and most of the subsequent Ed Sullivan appearances not kinescoped but as they were aired when I was 13-14 years old. I know what effect they had on my and my siblings. The main thing was they were different. They weren't Elvis and they weren't James Brown. Anyone else here 50 years old and willing to discuss how it felt to see The Beatles in '64 at age 14? I;d be happy to hear you.

For someone a generation or two later to comment is a lot like if I comment about 40s Big Bands.

Not my music.

Whether you like it, I like it -- or not -- the Beatles are MY music because I was 'there'. Wrong side of the Atlantic...but there. So MY music, even if I am not willing to worship the quartet of working class Liverpudlian dolts who made it.

By Anatomist1 on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 09:43 am: Edit

I think comparing Lennon or Bob Dylan to great poets of the past doesn't make much sense. They wrote song lyrics, not poems, and they wrote in a different context, to a different audience. Art is not a horserace, anyway. The art of writing lyrics to pop and folk songs isn't nearly as much of a meticulous, eggheaded enterprise as traditional poetry. It's about making words that can be put together with the music and become a whole song. Pop, rock, and folk songs tend to be ragged, simple, and visceral.

As for me, I would take Bob Dylan over most any poetry I've ever read. Try as I might, I can't seem to stomach more than a poem or two a year. Of the sacred cows of western civilization, poetry, opera, and ballet are three that I can do without.

K.

By Martin on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 09:30 am: Edit

I've been a big Beatles fan my entire life, but I never got the whole Lennon thing. I think most everything he did outside the Beatles was terrible. I think the cynical dark lyrics he wrote went really well with the Beatles early songs to juxtapose the lighter things McCartney wrote. But that's about it. "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away" is an example of this kind of songwriting at its best. He had a talent for decent lyrics, but I would never consider him a particularly gifted poet (I don't dig Jim Morrison either). I've always been bothered by the whole Lennon personality cult... it just doesn't seem appropriate. He was clever and could write a good pop song, but he wasn't any bit the genius so many people try to make him out to be.

George Martin is far more responsible for the magic that was the Beatles than any other member.

-Martin

By Don_walsh on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 07:33 am: Edit

One of my Thai friends used to rant on about what a great poet Lennon was.

As one of the blood of millenia of Irish (and Celtic and Welsh and cambro-Norman and Scots) bards who are the very woof and warp and weave and fiber and spine of English literature, I could only gape at the folly of the remark. No point in arguing, the gulf was too wide. Can we talk Yeats and Lennon in the same breath? Dylan Thomas (not Bob Dylan). The gulf of ignorance...

By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 06:40 am: Edit

OK the Beetles may well have been racist, I've never heard "No Pakistanis" so I'm in the dark really. I just find it hard to imagine John Lennon as a racist, even though he was a woman-beater. Maybe it's his deification rubbing off on me, who knows. (Anyway the Beetles did stand on a balcony and piss down on a group of nuns who were walking down the street at one stage, not even the Sex Pistols did that).

I think their music was more than OK and they certainly had a good management team to boost their success. Also their media friendliness and having 2,(possibly 3) exceptional front men helped. Their were other bands perhaps arguably as talented but the Beatles really touched a chord with the British public (and shortly after in the USA) in a way no other band had done before them, they caused mass hysteria. Bob Marley once described the Beatles as "the roots". They, (and their management) started something new, (like Elvis did). Anyway that's my ramble...

By Don_walsh on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 05:42 am: Edit

Pop idols rarely deserve deification. The Beetles included. Yet they have been deified. There music is okay, but their success mystified a generation of struggling American performers with a lot more talent. If it hadn't been for their handling and packaging they's still be playing clubs in Mersey-side and Hamburg. Or maybe not even that.

Look at it this way: the demigod bit, if it hadn't been for that, no one would have bothered to shoot Lennon. So he paid for his artificial divinity with his life, and became the martyr for the group. No one told him to go live in NYC. He could have been killed at random by Son of Sam with a .44 Special, or hit by accident on the subway when Bernie Goetz did the kid gang. (Go, Bernie!) Instead a loonie took him out because he was a (putative) demigod. Well, demigods die of lead poisoning too. He ought to have the sense to hire a decent crew of ex-Secret Service agents and lived the life of a demigod: reclusive, sheltered. Then no one would know if he smacked Yoko around. Or abused cats.

That's my quota for ikon-smashing tonight, volks.

By Pataphysician on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 05:06 am: Edit

Sorry for throwing a turd in the punchbowl. I just get edgy around the whole idolization of The Beatles, especially John Lennon.

The mention of Albert Goldman got me thinking: Goldman was the one who wrote that book on Lennon that was universally denounced, and Goldman has been vilified to Rushdie proportions ever since. But it has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of what he wrote. It's that it doesn't fit the carefully constructed image of Lennon -- The Lennon Commodity.

On the other hand, a few years earlier Goldman wrote a book on Lenny Bruce. Likewise, he chronicaled in detail every weakness, misdeed and bad habit. But no one had a problem with it (actually, I think it's a GREAT book), because Lenny Bruce himself was totally honest and open about all that stuff. In fact, Lenny Bruce used all that same personal stuff in his work, as a battering ram into people's consiousness. That's why Lenny Bruce is my hero and John Lennon is not.

By Pataphysician on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 03:52 am: Edit

Well, like I say, the song doesn't come off as ironic or even satirical. It certainly is a goof, though. Both Lennon and McCartney are singing in "wacky" foreign accents and having a good laugh. If it's not racist it is at least insensitive to a deadly serious issue. It was clearly NEVER, NEVER supposed to see the light of day, so they weren't worried about their image right then.

It may not be a coincidence that Eric Clapton, who has publicly announced those same rabid anti-immigrant statements, was a good pal of The Beatles and hanging out with them a lot at this time.

By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 02:18 am: Edit

Blackjack is probably right, it's likely that No Pakistanis was written ironically. Its recording was not that long after Shadow Cabinet Minister Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech, which stirred up the British 'White Trash' against immigrants, and lead to Powell being ejected from the Conservative Party. It seems unlikely that the Beatles would have wanted to allign themselves with such people, it wouldn't have fitted their image.

Very hard to imagine Lennon and McCartney as racists, McCartney was too squeaky clean. Lennon as a racist?, a sexist yes but not a racist.

By Martin on Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 06:22 am: Edit

Midas,

Can't blame me for trying... no offense taken at all. Hmmm, I can think of alot of bands from England I like... maybe if I became friends with Justin Broaderick of Godflesh, then I could maybe get it thru him. So many schemes....

-Martin

By Midas on Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 12:55 am: Edit

Martin, I think that may be pushing the friendship, I'm afraid. However, if you get to meet him, share alot of late night drinks and bad Robert Smith jokes, you might be in luck.
-Robert.

By Anatomist1 on Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 12:31 am: Edit

Well, if you puzzle it out, it seems unlikely that McCartney would write such as his own character, without irony. He wrote this about the same time as he married Linda Eastman, one of the biggest bambi-loving, vegan liberals of all time. He was currently very rich. He was in no danger of losing his job to a Pakistani, and probably wasn't even acquainted with anyone in that situation.

I've always thought Paul McCartney was kind of an annoying, smarmy media whore, myself -- but he sure could write a tune. I seriously doubt he was ever an evil racist, more like a vain mirrorgazer.

I don't doubt that all the Beatles have/had warty unexposed sides, but most of the attempts I've read to pin particular misdeeds on them have been insufficiently substantiated, and put forward by the embittered and the habitually sensationalistic.

K.

By Don_walsh on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 04:41 pm: Edit

Sound like revisionism to me. Some people just can't stand to see their pop icons smashed. No possibility of warts and zits...

By Pataphysician on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 02:28 pm: Edit

Actually, "Commonwealth" ('is much too common for me') and "White Power" are distinct songs from "No Pakistanis". "White Power" is more like an early version of "Dig It". When I first heard this stuff I hoped they were kidding, but it's so un-ironic that I have some doubt. Certainly Beatles fans always saw it as a parody, but Mark Lewisohn ("The Beatles Recording Sessions" p166) said this version of "Get Back" was "originally conceived with a political bias".

By _blackjack_ on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 01:00 pm: Edit

I'm pretty sure they were satirizing the British repatriation policy of the time.

But when LAIBACH sings it, well...


From http://odinweb.com/forums/Menlove_Ave/posts/12.html:

"The number was a Paul McCartney composition, but it had seen many changes and the song had been rehearsed at the Twickenham sessions, although in a different form.
Paul had originally written it as a satire on the British immigration laws, with such controversial lines as 'Don't dig no Pakistanis taking all the people's jobs'.
Although Paul was making a political comment, aimed at attitudes towards immigration from people such as Enoch Powell, the MP, and also mentioning political figures such as Harold Wilson and Edward Heath, he was not being 'racist' as the New Musical Express accused him of being several years later when they heard some of the various recordings of the song.
Different versions of the number in its early stages have been called by several names, including 'Commonwealth', 'Commonwealth Song', 'White Power', or 'No Pakistanis', and have cropped up on numerous bootleg albums. "

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 12:12 pm: Edit

I had never heard of the Pakistani verse in the song. I looked it up on the web, and the only mention of it that elaborated said that it was Paul McCartney doing a parody of the british version of rednecks who supported a then-current british anti-immigration policy/policy initiative.

Have you been reading that Goldman biography? I like the parts where he has Lennon -- the closet homosexual -- beating Yoko and grabbing the cat by its tail and slamming it into the wall for fun.

K.

By Don_walsh on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 11:54 am: Edit

I think there are only two a's in Pakistani, and one more 'i' than you credit...

And give the lads a little more credit, I think they hated Hindus just as much as Moslem South Asians.

All that Thugee foolishness in HELP if seen in context of your remarks, takes on a different...complexion. Doesn't it?

By Pataphysician on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 10:42 am: Edit

"No Pakastanis"

The original version of "Get Back" - only available as a bootleg. A horribly racist song that reveals what they really meant by "Get Back": all you foreigners get back to where you once belonged, you're ruining England. My favorite Beatles song not because I agree with the sentiment - quite the opposite - but because it shows the sick, evil, hypocritical side that we're not supposed to know about those four lovable moptops.

By Tcsmit on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 04:04 am: Edit

It does seem a little weird that they would have included that song in the book without the others. But right now, I can't think of any other songs that they wrote for other people. I think they did one for Billy J Kramer ('From a Window'???), but my memory is kind of fuzzy right now. Even weirder, my Beatles songbook has 'Cold Turkey', 'Give Peace a Chance', and 'Imagine' in it.

By Martin on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 04:04 am: Edit

Midas,

I don't suppose you could have Mr. O'Donnell forward me some too? The Cure is great and it would be a unique honor to get absinthe thru their keyboard player.

Of course, I wouldn't be offended if you just told me to screw off, but still... it would be nice.

-Martin

By Billynorm on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 03:32 am: Edit

I Feel Fine, Eight Days A Week, Day Tripper, Old Brown Shoe (GREAT BASS!) & Back In The USSR do it for me. (Apart from a few distracions, good thread, Kevin!)

By Eric on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 02:03 am: Edit

I stand corrected.

By Tavis on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 01:45 am: Edit

I wanna be your man WAS recorded by the Beatles, and is on the With The Beatles album (so sayeth Google)

By Eric on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 01:26 am: Edit

they also wrote I wanna be your man for the rolling stones. I do not think they ever recorded it though

By Tavis on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 01:19 am: Edit

I'm willing to accept they never recorded it, but its inclusion in the Beatles' songbook is very odd in that case. I'm sure they wrote various other songs for people as well, including Cilla Black, but they're not in the songbook.

By Tcsmit on Wednesday, January 03, 2001 - 01:15 am: Edit

Bows humbly to Tavis: Ah yes, I had forgotten that Lennon/McCartney wrote that song, they never did record a version of it however.

By Tavis on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 11:59 pm: Edit

Tcsmit said: Tavis, 'World without Love' was not a Beatles song. It was by the british pop duo, Peter and Gordon. They did have ties to the Beatles, however, as McCartney dated Peter's sister, Jane, for about 4 or 5 years during the 60's.

I say: sorry, it was written by Lennon and McCartney. Seeing as it was in the Complete Beatles songbook I assumed it was also recorded by them at some stage? I've only heard the Peter & Gordon version though.

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 11:53 pm: Edit

I don't think the people at this confounded radio station have ever heard of Nina Hagen... maybe one Gary Numan song, but they wouldn't play it. I was talking more about top-40ish music. It seems like ever since the 60's, this type of pop music has just been crap, except for an occasional band or two. I'd like to say it's gotten worse, but it seems more like quality is irrelevant, and has been replaced with some pablum formula for instant familiarity. Saddest by far is what's happened to country music -- basically turned into a lamer version of top-40 with cowboy hats and more offensively cliched lyrics. Thank god for the No Depression revival of authentic country.

K.

By Tcsmit on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Dilettante, that great singing on 'Twist and Shout' was Lennon not Harrison.

Tavis, 'World without Love' was not a Beatles song. It was by the british pop duo, Peter and Gordon. They did have ties to the Beatles, however, as McCartney dated Peter's sister, Jane, for about 4 or 5 years during the 60's.

By Midas on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 07:19 pm: Edit

For me, it's Eleanor Rigby by far. That song affects me deeper than most.
Oh, and I saw someone mention the Cure earlier (Martin?), and it reminded me that a member may be popping in here on the forum now and then. Roger O'Donnell, the Cure's keyboardist, is a friend of mine, and I've gotten him intruiged by this little drink of ours. Actually, he's the kind soul who buys my La Fee for me and forwards it on.
And the 80's weren't all bad. I'd be lost without Gary Numan and Nina Hagen.
-Robert.

By Black_rabbit on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 10:08 am: Edit

Plasticene porters with looking glass ties? Newspaper taxis appear on the shore, waiting to take you away...

Accidental? In the 60's, with hallucinatory lyrics, from a band that openly admitted to doing LSD? Sure, Mister Lennon. Have another sugar cube and we'll talk all about it. No, actually, my face isn't melting, but thanks for the concern.

I'm reminded of Ringo Starr's words: "I don't remember meeting the queen. I was too stoned."

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 06:33 am: Edit

Yeah, you're right. I'm just remembering an interview I saw where John Lennon explained it, but I didn't take the trouble to puzzle out the timeline. He said that when he first heard about it, he went through all the Beatles songs in a fit of paranoia, wondering which song would be next.

K.

By Martin on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 06:11 am: Edit

Don't you mean Julian? Sean is about my age, so he certainly wasn't around in the mid-sixties. Besides, Sean is one of Yoko's offspring and John wasn't with her at the time that song was written.

-Martin

By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 05:48 am: Edit

Lennon always claimed that his son Sean originated the phrase, and the anagram was accidental... although the hallucinatory imagery is unmistakeable.

K.

By Black_rabbit on Tuesday, January 02, 2001 - 04:24 am: Edit

Strawberry Fields Forever...

the lyrics and dreamy, why don't I just lie down here and never get up vibe.

I once heard Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds on the music in a department store.

To this day, I wonder if it was a rebellious muzak compiler guy, or if they just didn't care, or if they figured songs about LSD were OK as long as the Beatles were singing them, since the Beatles are cultural icons and all.

By Joshua on Monday, January 01, 2001 - 11:59 pm: Edit

my favorite would probally have to be,either norweigen wood,or perhaps elenor rigbe,i realy love the orchastra feel of elenor,gives it sort of a spinning feel to it

By Tavis on Monday, January 01, 2001 - 09:59 pm: Edit

favourite Beatles song: Happiness is a Warm Gun, though I have soft spots for World Without Love and It's Only Love.

Are we doing favourite cities as well? That would be Madrid, Spain. I say Spain just in case there's an American town/city with the same name. I remember studying a map of the USA and finding places like Birmingham, Cardiff etc., so there must be a Madrid somewhere.

By Dilettante on Monday, January 01, 2001 - 09:37 am: Edit

Favorite Beatles song, probably Twist & Shout-great yelling by G Harrison.

Favorite City: Definitely SF, lived there from 83 to 86, then from 89 to 96, then moved to Brisbane (if you're from there, you know where "the city of stars" is) then, regretably, to Connecticut until now. The only reason we left SF and then the Bay area was cost of living, couldn't support our lifestyle there. (see my website if you want to view an exceedingly boring lifestyle)

By Bluedog1 on Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 05:12 am: Edit

Day Tripper -- great guitar riff

By Melinelly on Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 03:48 am: Edit

"FYI... I love SF. I'd live there if it wasn't so cost prohibitive"

heh. exactly the reason my wife and i had to leave and move across the bay to Oakland. maybe we can afford to move back in ten years or so... when we've furthered our careers and paid off some of our mountain of debt. sad really what's been happening in SF. we're even starting to see some of it here in Oakland under pro-development Mayor Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown. SF has been my favorite place to call home... and i still do in heart. lived there from 89-98. and my wife was born and raised there. she NEVER thought she'd have to leave for any reason.

:::sigh:::

as for this thread, well, my wife would be the better of us for this discussion. i was raised on the Rolling Stones, Bruce, and anything from the early days of Motown... oh, and the Cramps =) (in the 80s, my then stepdad wanted my brother and i to be punks lol)

By Martin on Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 01:10 am: Edit

Help was a really good movie. Very funny. So was Hard Days Night.

I agree, You've Got To Hide Your Love Away is really good. I've actually been considering recording a cover of it. That would make a good choice for my favorite from that era, but Sgt. Pepper's is still my all-'round favorite.

Kallisti,

I was born about ten years after you, but my parents were married in '68 which means our parents are probably about the same age.. I too was suckled on Beatles milk. I wasn't around all that nakedness though... probably because my parents had the foresight to wait til they got all that out of their systems before having kids. I remember the 80's very vividly and fondly, though I was very young during most of it.. I started watching MTV in about 1983 and the other day I was listening to The Cure "Disintegration" and suddenly realized that I remember seeing the videos for Fascination Street and Lullaby when they were NEW.... suddenly, I felt very old, and I'm far too young to be getting nostalgic. I can only imagine how bad it must be for you.. I'm sure the memories are alot fresher. It must be depressing. The 80's were so fucking STRANGE....

-Martin

By Absinthedrinker on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 10:39 pm: Edit

"An early period song that really grabbed me a couple of years ago is YOU'VE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY:

I'm with you there. They have been playing it in a lot of bars over here and after one drunken session I trekked over half of London trying to find a record shop open to buy it. By the time I found one I couldn't remember which album it was from and mistakenly thought it must be on the #1 collection (even though I knew it had never been released as a single - it had been a heavy session). So I bought the album and took it home to play...

Anyway, I got Help for christmas so I can play that track to my heart's content now.

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 09:23 pm: Edit

that's the only thing I give the Beatles credit
for... some really cool backtracking myths...
yes, i'm hard on them, but they're rich and
famous and I'm not...

By Petermarc on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 08:31 pm: Edit

i'd go with 'in my life' but forget the alley, boones farm and cat kicking...i find it to be a prozac-kinda song...and 'revolution #9'(hmmm...) for it's sheer obnoxiousness...by the way, the phrase 'number 9'in the song (if it can be called that),if played backwards,says 'turn me on green fairy'...kidding...but it really does say 'turn me on dead man'... i did this (many years ago) with a record on high-end turn table, would not have believed it if i hadn't done this myself...spooky...now paul just looks dead...

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 04:28 pm: Edit

FYI... I love SF. I'd live there if it wasn't so cost
prohibitive, but I've had many a splendid visit.
The ex is a professor now at Illinois St. but
she always wanted to move back.

By Admin on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 04:25 pm: Edit

I grew up in Berkeley, and moved to SF when I was 18.

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 04:18 pm: Edit

Kallisti

What part of SF are you from... my ex-girlfriend
is from the Sunset, around 44th street.

By Admin on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 04:13 pm: Edit

I don't know, Anat ... I liked the 80's *grin*. But I would rather leave much of the 80's top 40 behind. College Radio & the QUAKE (here in the bay area) were what did it for me.

But I am a product of the summer of love (hmm, born in 68, must have been conceived in 67!) and sucked on Beatles milk from the very teet on. Several of my friends growing up were the love children of pop stars and hippies of note. And I think I saw more naked people before the age of six than I have in my entire adult life. But I digress ...

Marc, Norwegian Wood has always been a romantic dreamy favorite of mine. And Honey Pie, comes in handy when breaking into song is highly inappropriate. They're all so beautiful though, I just can't make up my mind!

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 04:11 pm: Edit

I understand about the 'robots' comment
being a little much. I was trying to make a sly
jab about the overcommercialization of the
Beatles over the years. The first memory I
have of the Beatles was the song 'Paperback
Writer.' I was quite young and bugged and
bugged my mom to buy the album for me
which she eventually did. I think in all, I ended
up owning about 4 Beatles albums. As I grew
older, my tastes changed and I moved away
from that genre all together. The excessive
radio play, media attention and mechandising
kind of drove me nuts so towards the end, I
came to dislike their whole being. It was the
same with Led Zepplin and other over played
artists. As for acid, i've never done it, plenty of
mescaline though... have gotten completey
away from drugs though for the past few
years, prefer the more controllable buzz of
other substances now.

By _blackjack_ on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 04:04 pm: Edit

There is a difference between sayng one doesn't enjoy something, like I did, and calling those who disagree with you "robots." You might want to think about the way you phrase things. Opinions, when stated in a more flexible manner, go down easier.

I don't hate the Beatles, BTW. I recognize their talent; it's just not my thing, and their ubiquity in our society has watered them down for me somewhat.

And acid feels exactly like it should feel: it feels trippy. No matter how hard you try, psychadelic posters make you go "whoa!" and Dark Side of the Mood sounds really intense.

After about 6 hours, however, this gets a little old and I really want to be able to unclinch my jaw...

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 03:50 pm: Edit

So you are saying that you cannot accept that
someone has a differing opinion than that
which was expected? I hope you're not that
small minded, especially as an artist. If I
wanted to be an ass, in a more pure sense, I
would have done a much better job than that.
You remind very much of a friend of mine from
long ago, a poet who shared the same sort of
intensity and tunnel vision when it came to just
about anything. As with anyone who's a friend,
I accepted that about him and though he
attacked me in such the same way you are
now for being the person I am, I never held it
against him as I won't hold it against you. We
are what we are sometimes and as hard as
it's been for me, I've accepted that about
people and tried my best not to judge. I'm
sorry you are so upset at something that
should have made no one upset.

By Anatomist1 on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 03:42 pm: Edit

Hello everyone. Do not adust your computer. Despite what you have seen below, this is a thread about the Beatles...

I don't know how it is near you, but here in Madison we're being hit hard by a media conspiracy that's trying to jam all that crappy pop music from the 80's down our throats. In addition to all the compilation CD's being pushed on TV, a new 80's-only commercial radio station started up, and thousands of nostalgia-seized automatons are lapping it up. Songs that I wished I could remain forgotten forever are wafting out of radios everywhere I go like the smell of wet feces.

This got me thinking about pop music, and when it went bad. Then I remembered hearing about how that CD of all the Beatles' #1 hits is the best seller right now. It just goes to show that if you bombard people with enough shit, they start
pining for sweet-smelling days gone by...

Anyway, relying on Bilboard charts to decide which are the best Beatles songs seems inexplicably corrupt to me. This got me to wondering what everyone's all-time favorite Beatles song might be. It could end up being kind of a cultural
Rorschack test. I was looking back through their catalog, and the number of fantastic songs is staggering. I'm asking you to pick one.

...OK, OK if you have to, you can pick one from the early period and one from the late, as the argument can be made that they are virtually two distinct bands, but no noncommittal run-on lists.

Women are encouraged to post early, before the thread somehow devolves into a bitter argument about something unspeakable.

K.

I pick, without hesitation, ACROSS THE UNIVERSE -- the slowed down version on LET IT BE with the choir and all. I've heard it hundreds of times and it is still brings me euphoric rapture.

By Anatomist1 on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Ignore you my ass. As a vandal, you know damn well that you have permanently ruined something. People who have yet to encounter this thread will see an argument between a solipsistic jackass and someone else who was enough of an idiot to be dragged into an argument with him, not a mild-spirited open invitation to muse about their experiences with the Beatles. I think Marc underestimated the scope of the problem here: it's not about the lack of women, it's about the lack of humanity.

K.

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Never done acid Marc... what's it like?

By Marc on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 03:32 pm: Edit

Norwegian Wood, Rain, Here Comes The Sun and Blue Jay Way.

My absolute favorite is BLUE JAY WAY. Why? Because
it reminds of some wonderful acid trips I took in '69. It sounds like acid.

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 03:19 pm: Edit

Hmmm... I think i did indicate I appreciated a
Beatles song. Or did something get lost in the
translation as I may have used an improper
vernacular? Asshole, maybe, cowardly, never.
Sorry to step on your little Beatle parade, but
you know the saying about opinions. All we
should really worry about is you like absinthe, I
like absinthe, everyone here likes absinthe
and this is about as close as anyone has to a
meeting place for people who appreciate
absinthe or believe you me, I'd run down to my
favorite bar right now and order up some
because I can't stand sitting here just talking
about it all the time. I've no animosity towards
anyone in here and any sort of jabs or insult
you may derive from my comments should be
taken with many pinches of salt. So maybe
you should do as my mother used to tell my
sister, just ignore him. Have a groovy day!

By Anatomist1 on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 03:07 pm: Edit

Pikkle,

Once, when I was first in college, there was a guy who was universally considered a jackass that perched himself on a bed in one of my friend's rooms. He refused to move even though we asked, begged, and even threatened him to induce him to leave. He knew we didn't want him there, but his heart knew nothing but spite. He was smug, insufferable, and totally secure in the assumption that none of us really thought he was bothersome enough to actually risk our college education or jail time to do what was necessary to physcially eject him from the room. He was right. He wasn't worth any sacrifice. Instead, he became burned into my memory as the quintessence of a cowardly asshole who hides behind contingencies to feel tiny little tastes of potency. At this point, I'd say you're jockeying for position. We already know you don't like the Beatles, at this point you're just posturing and making a pathetic plea for attention.

You know what this thread is about, and you know you're just trying to be a disruptive pain in the ass. This is how people who were born innocent earn their way into hell. Please quit while there is still hope for your soul.

K.

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Hmm... I wonder if the Beatles ever
experimented with absinthe?

okay, if there is one song i might on a rainy
Sunday during autumn while sitting in a
refrigerater box in an alley drinking Boone's
Farm like, it would probably be "In My Life."
Makes me want to kick cats for some reason...
"Danger Will Robinson!"

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Even negative relationships are
relationships... you mean you are interested in
others' positive relationships with the Beatles,
correct? I'm a very literal person sometimes,
no sense of humor whatsoever...

By Anatomist1 on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 02:06 pm: Edit

Pikkle,

Could you please go and cop your attitude over on the desecrated Ladies Welcome thread? I'll whup your ass over there, if that's what you're looking for. Just go over and insult my mother or something. I'm sincerely interested about others' relationship with the Beatles.

K.

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 01:58 pm: Edit

Martin... BMG called, they want to know when
you're going to send your penny in...

By Anatomist1 on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Two people so far who don't even LIKE the Beatles. I confess that I'm surprised. I thought this would be a good warm, fuzzy thread for the new millenium. For me there are three relationships to the Beatles. There's the unconscious bedrock of songs that are fixed in childhood memories. There's my highschool drughead period of overweening enthusiasm. And, there's today. I can't imagine my life without their music.

An early period song that really grabbed me a couple of years ago is YOU'VE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY.

I'm not with you, Martin, on SGT. PEPPER'S. Although I appreciate it, especially historically, in terms of the production, it's just too bouncy and carnivalesque for me, especially these days. Although, there are some great sardonic touches by Lennon, like his interjection of "It can't get no worse" in IT'S GETTING BETTER. I think the WHITE ALBUM has some great songs, but it's not really about the Beatles. It's like three short solo albums shuffled together. I like the lo-fi, stripped-down, group effort feel of LET IT BE much better. It has a sort of forced euphoria with fatalistic undercurrents that I can really relate to.

K.

By _blackjack_ on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 10:35 am: Edit

I only like the Beatles when Laibach covers them.

By Martin on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 08:11 am: Edit

Shit.. its starting already.. Pikkle please contain yourself... okay?


-Martin

By Dengar on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 07:31 am: Edit

Helter Skelter...probably!

By Pikkle on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 05:18 am: Edit

There are no good Beatles songs. You are all
robots.

By Tcsmit on Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 05:09 am: Edit

I am the Walrus.

By Hersaint on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 11:11 pm: Edit

OK .... phew hard one this think i'l pick two one early being

Can't Buy me Love from 1964

and later Hey Jude 1976

Difficult though so many tracks to choose from !

Same over here though Anatomist so its a big seller across the world by the sounds of things

By Eric on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 11:10 pm: Edit

best beatles song ever: I'm down.

By Martin on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 11:01 pm: Edit

My pick would have to be "Sgt. Pepper's". Not the song, but the whole album. All the songs run together and I treat it like one big song. Its almost impossible for me to sit down and just listen to one song, I have to listen to the whole thing... each song has it's own flavor and a unique reason why I like it.

They were able to go to the edge on that album and bring it back and interpret it in a way so anyone could get it. That's what pop music is SUPPOSED to be... creative and constantly pushing the limit. It totally set the theme for all the experimentation on the albums that followed it.

Best... recording... ever.

-Martin

P.S.
As much as it may seem out of character for me, I HATE the White Album.

By Anatomist1 on Friday, December 29, 2000 - 10:34 pm: Edit

I don't know how it is near you, but here in Madison we're being hit hard by a media conspiracy that's trying to jam all that crappy pop music from the 80's down our throats. In addition to all the compilation CD's being pushed on TV, a new 80's-only commercial radio station started up, and thousands of nostalgia-seized automatons are lapping it up. Songs that I wished I could remain forgotten forever are wafting out of radios everywhere I go like the smell of wet feces.

This got me thinking about pop music, and when it went bad. Then I remembered hearing about how that CD of all the Beatles' #1 hits is the best seller right now. It just goes to show that if you bombard people with enough shit, they start pining for sweet-smelling days gone by...

Anyway, relying on Bilboard charts to decide which are the best Beatles songs seems inexplicably corrupt to me. This got me to wondering what everyone's all-time favorite Beatles song might be. It could end up being kind of a cultural Rorschack test. I was looking back through their catalog, and the number of fantastic songs is staggering. I'm asking you to pick one.

...OK, OK if you have to, you can pick one from the early period and one from the late, as the argument can be made that they are virtually two distinct bands, but no noncommittal run-on lists.

Women are encouraged to post early, before the thread somehow devolves into a bitter argument about something unspeakable.

K.

I pick, without hesitation, ACROSS THE UNIVERSE -- the slowed down version on LET IT BE with the choir and all. I've heard it hundreds of times and it is still brings me euphoric rapture.

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