Isuisse?

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: Topics Archived Thru Feb 2001:Isuisse?
By Fluid on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 04:08 pm: Edit

Hey!!

That's pretty good **surprise**

I even had a tune goin' thru my head as I "sang" it - hah!.. I gotta try that....

By Hersaint on Friday, February 02, 2001 - 03:08 pm: Edit

Right 3 glasses of Suisse and a test to see if absinthe does produce more creative thinking a poem i have combined in the last hour whilst consuming the said alcohol (although i have a bit of double vision I put this down to computer use been on the bloody thing all day at work, and tonight at home)

Feel free to comment I do not usually write poems and sorry head its not up to your standards

I canít understand what is going on
Surely Iím not the only one
No one understands the right from wrong

Is truth and honour a thing of the past
Can we make chivalry last
Are manners and pleasantries soon to die?
Do we not understand the truth from a lie?

Is thank you a word to be seldom heard?
Are we fighting a loosing battle?
Are people to be herded just like cattle?

Are arrogance and anger on the increase?
Will this relentless abuse never cease?
So please letís not forget our Pís and Qís
For you see we have lots to loose


Joe Miller

By Hersaint on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 05:16 am: Edit

I have been lucky enough to try Ted and Don's mystery x (very good) and the suisse le bleue tastes are worlds apart and i would knock neither one, both louched, although I had to pay £160 for 3 bottles of the Swiss so I know which one makes my wallet happy ....

the Swiss is clear and tastes good and you wouldn't want more than 3 glasses (trust me)

Ted and Don's is the most unique Absinthe I have ever tasted and they will have one more customer to add to the list

By Tavis on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 11:52 pm: Edit

OK, thanks for the answers, just release the damn stuff so we can buy it!

By Don_Walsh on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 11:37 pm: Edit

Dear Tavis

I was given my marching orders to setup for a certain production level. And I have done so. If orders don't match that level, well, we just cut back unless and until the orders come in.

On the other hand, should we need to produce more than expected, we are in a position to scale up linearly with little delay. It's a flexible setup, I designed it that way on purpose.

I'm sorry if I can't be more specific as to our capacity to produce or especially our technology.

What makes you think we are targeting only one country? That's far from a safe assumption. But you're right about the supermarkets, I don't think we'll be in there with Sebor's. Don't want to be.

By Tabreaux on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 01:14 pm: Edit

We'll only produce as much as we'll sell, however much or little that may be. At this point, no one knows how much or little that may be.

By Tavis on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Don, I was (as you were) comparing your output with that of La Bleue, but the second comment on the wisdom of producing so much absinthe, essentially targeted at one country, was made about your absinthes. Don't you feel that you're aiming at producing too much, given that these absinthes of yours aren't going to be found in any local liquor store?

By Don_Walsh on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 11:51 am: Edit

I think 30,000 to 50,000 L/year is closer to the mark than 20,000, and almost none leaves Switzerland. Last year the absinthium crop was bad, so the absinthe yield may have been low.

The big clandestine distillers are set up on/in tractor/trailer trucks and are well capable of 100 L a day.

By Pikkle on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 10:11 am: Edit

Because government officials are corrupt no matter what country you're in, some more that others I suppose.

By Malhomme on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 10:00 am: Edit

If they buy their alcohol from the state then how is it that most makers go un-arrested? If the making of Swiss absinthe isn't enforced, how come some makers are still being arrested?
mal

By Tabreaux on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 09:58 am: Edit

La Bleue appears to vary widely, some being downright bad, to some being quite good. The better ones fit into a class by themselves in that they seem to resemble neither the old products nor the current commercial offerings.

By Petermarc on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 08:40 am: Edit

a word of warning for la bleue buyers, my doubs
source brought a bottle of la bleue(swiss) for me to try...55%, very faint blue-green color that louched snow-white...it was mediocre at best, like an anisette, with a faint scent of absinthe; it had good promise on first wiff from the bottle and wimped-out with water and sugar...it was a far cry from the other i had tried, so know your sources if you are shelling out the bucks...

By Admin on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 08:38 am: Edit

One of the new admin features is that it tells me who has never logged in using their account. But I doubt the accuracy of some of the code's claims. Also some people have duplicate accounts, but only a few.

Eventually I'll go thru and email folks who haven't used their accounts and delete some of the flotsam.

By Anatomist1 on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 08:34 am: Edit

I wondered about that 'registered user' thing too. If a membership doesn't get cancelled after a period of inactivity, many of those could be people who signed up, then blew the whole thing off. If they just want to read and not write, why would they register?

K.

By Artemis on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 07:55 am: Edit

"Now who wants to step forward and give us a decent estimate of absinthe production in
the Jura?"

Took the words right out of my mouth. Since the bootleggers all apparently buy their alcohol from the government, can anybody get those figures and we can extrapolate from there? It would have to be that amount or less.

On a separate note, I see this forum has ~180 registered users. There are what, two dozen active posters? That's a whole lot of registered lurking.

By Tavis on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 07:32 am: Edit

I've heard a figure of 20000 litres p.a. thrown about the place.

Would it be wise to produce so much of a premium product, given that, by it's very nature and composition, it must be sold clandestinely in its target country?

By Grimbergen on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 07:21 am: Edit

Ok. Now who wants to step forward and give us a decent estimate of absinthe production in the Jura?

Grim

By Don_Walsh on Monday, January 29, 2001 - 01:14 am: Edit

It's probably inappropriate to discuss what our actual capacity will be; Ted has stated what it won't be.

It's fair to say that our output will be at a level that qualifies as 'artisnal', and our techniques and fastidiousness to detail and commitment to authenticity surely do.

That being said, I think I can assure you that we will rival the contemporary total output of the Jura, and perhaps surpass it. In quantity and absolutely in quality.

By Tabreaux on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 12:08 pm: Edit

Tim, if I had the funding to set up a distillery capable of 2,000,000 L annually, properly grow, harvest, and process enough of my own select varieties of herbs to my standards, and from this make a liquor which was legal in every country where there was a market for it, maybe I'd be able to sell it for the price of Deva and survive.

The problem is that I am not the CEO of the old Pernod Fils Co., and this is not the 1800s. Unfortunately, almost everything I've described in the above paragraph is close to impossible to achieve in 2001.

By _Blackjack on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 11:11 am: Edit


Quote:

I wish it was a simple as just 'distilling', but anyway, you are right on about the labor of love.



Well, I was going to say "distilling and wheeling-dealing of the local government" but it made for an awkward sentance.

By Timk on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 06:26 am: Edit

I shall certainly but the odd bottle, but myself, and presumably others would probab;ly be reluctant to fork out so much money on a regular basis.

Tim

By Marcellin on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Not only will I pay whatever the price is of T&D's Abs., but I'm anxiously waiting to physically throw my good, hard earned cash at them.

I like Deva, but it does get repetitive, one-dimensional. I'm eagerly waiting an oral sensation that I haven't experienced yet. Hey, that didn't come out quite like I thought it would, but you all get my idea.

p.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Jay, I agree about the betcha-can't drink just one part, and naturally, your other remarks as well.

However I still find that 3-4 glasses an evening and I am outta there. And that's saying something for someone of my body mass.

By comparison it takes 4-5 of the LARGE size 'Chang' Beer, which is really Elephant malt liquor, 8 percent alc v/v to get me to the same (but not same) place. Which is maybe 3 sixpacks of Budweiser. Just a little less bloat...

By Thegreenimp on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 01:53 pm: Edit

For what it is worth, I was lucky to sample some of the pre release product. There is no comparable product out of Spain, (I like Segarra, but it is not the same as Ted's)....A couple of La Bleues hint at the flavor, but believe me....this will be a major surprise for everyone, that bases their comparison on the currently available Absinthe, from the commercial market.
As for what it will cost, well this is not an assembly line product, but a marriage of art and science by few devoted people, what ever the final price may be, will be worth it, to taste an authentic glass of real Absinthe, after all these years.
The one area of disagreement I would have with Don is, I think that one could go through a bottle a little quicker than some others, it has a quality that leaves you wanting another glass.....hmmm I wonder how they did that?
Regards
Jay

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 10:18 am: Edit

Thanks, Blackjack.

I wish it was a simple as just 'distilling', but anyway, you are right on about the labor of love.

By _Blackjack on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 09:59 am: Edit

I really doubt Ted and Don are trying to get rich off of this. If their motive was profit alone they'd bottle up antifreeze like Hills and sell it to hipsters. They are obviously putting a lot of effort into a labor of love, selling it to connoisseurs, and gambling that they will make enough money for their trouble. I don't think there is anything wrong with being paid fairly for doing work, especially when it's work, like Ted's analysis of vintage absinthe and Don's distilling, that most other people can't do.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 09:30 am: Edit

TimK, if you think that what we are offering is 'just an aperitif', don't buy it. Go buy a bottle of Ricard instead.

If you think that there isn't more involved to making this than to make a decent single malt, then go buy a bottle of Glenmorangie.

Because you are wrong on both counts.

I can tell you that we had to acquire and use serious political muscle here to be able to legally do this at all. Liquor is a government monopoly here, and we had to buck the monopoly, and do so solely for export. So rather like La Fee in France, we won't be available in Thailand. None. Not a drop. For different reasons but the end result is the same. (Nice part is we can taste it at our factory...)

You continue to ignore both the technical differences between our products and absinthes you are familiar with, and qualitative ones.

You also continue to ignore our substantial start up costs (we are not a spinoff of a pastis plant) and our, esp Ted's, serious investment in R&D over seven years, going on eight.

We aren't making absinthe for the masses. Premium absinthes were NOT the absinthe of the hoi polloi, as Absintheur was always pointing out they (Pernod Fils, E.Pernod) accounted for a small portion of absinthe production/consumption. Nothing has changed. We will always do our best to reduce the price IF we can do so without compromising quality AND without violating the necessary economics involved.

You want Kristal but at Cold Duck prices.

You won't get it.

(Sorry about that.)

By the way where do you get off telling me what my time and effort is worth?

If you don't like the price, don't pay it.

By Tabreaux on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 04:58 pm: Edit

And rest assured that if we find a way to reduce the price without reducing the authenticity or quality, we'll pass it along. Until then, the products are not even on the market yet, so there is no need to stress ourselves about things that are not even finalized, much less available.

By Fluid on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 04:37 pm: Edit

I meditated on it and I am awestruck.

I would gladly pay $100 for a bottle of authentic absinthe.

I would not do it often, so I get Tim's point. If it was $50 I'd buy more and throw parties. If it's $100 I'll nurse it.

I, as I'm sure other folks here are, am awestruck by the commitment to quality, the time and expense and the education involved. It's awesome.

I also expect the price to fluctuate with supply/demand; we'll know within a year or two what the "fair" price is, I'm sure.

Fluid

By Tabreaux on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 04:20 pm: Edit

Let me begin by saying that Deva does *not* use very similar production methods and ingredients. If they did, they would have to increase their prices several-fold. When you say "similar production methods and ingredients", I don't think you realize all what that encompasses.

I appreciate your comments and I understand what you would like to see. Like Remy Martin XO or Dom Perignon, we are not making products to necessarily suit the whims of the everyday drinker. If we wanted to do that, we would simply duplicate Deva. Regardless Tim, our products will not be excessively priced.

Quite honestly, we simply do not have the quantity of raw materials in the quality we require to 'supply the masses'. We would never be able to fill landslides of orders. Our hand made products are unequivocally authentic, and are intended to fill a distinct void where that qualification is concerned. If we were in this primarily to 'make money' as you mentioned, we'd simply follow in the footsteps of existing products. That has already been done, and is simply not our goal. In order to achieve what we are offering, it takes an enormous amount of headache and expense. Some aspects are almost impossible to achieve in modern times. You have no idea of the lengths we've gone through to do what we're doing. If you did, you'd be awestruck.

By Tavis on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Fair enough.

By Gadfly on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 02:32 pm: Edit

I must by from SC rather than the individual dealers with whom I've had email contact because, even with the overseas shipping charges, they are much more affordable. My total per bottle cost, including shipping, for the 3 brands I've ordered so far ranges from $30-$40. Considering my first bottle only lasted two weeks there's now way I can afford to buy anything that costs more than that on a regular basis. If I have to choose between two bottles a month or one bottle every two months I'll go for the quantity.

By Tavis on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 10:04 am: Edit

"£144.839 for three bottles, thats £48.29 each if three U.K. forumites were to group together if you all paid £50.00, then that would cover the postage to the other two people and you could have the bottles shipped to a third person."

Yeah, that's a good idea. It would probably cost a little more, I'm guessing this guy has no CC transaction capability set up, so I suppose a transfer/money order would have to happen. At the moment I'm waiting on a guy who says he can get me a bottle for £60, and I don't want to tread on his toes. If he doesn't come through though, would any other UK forumites want in?

Tavis

By Timk on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 09:25 am: Edit

£144.839 for three bottles, thats £48.29 each if three U.K. forumites were to group together if you all paid £50.00, then that would cover the postage to the other two people and you could have the bottles shipped to a third person.
btw I have no money at the moment so count me out for the time being, but three of you other U.K. drinkers ought to give it a go. Although personally I think £50.00 for a bottle of absinthe is absolutely rediculous, you could buy enough food for a week with that.
I shall take this opportunity to ask that Ted and Dom carefully consider their price point for this absinthe, you will make far more money if people use it as their every day absinthe rather than a 'just for special occasions' because its too expensive purchase, £7.00 for a bottle of deva is good value, and I dont mind paying £20 for 750ml of Jack Daniels about $30, because i can buy it off the shelf. Personally if it costs much more that £30 ($43) i will rarely buy it.

GUYS, we need to stop thinking that $100 - $150 for good absinthe is reasonable. Even >$50 is more expensive than any off the shelf spirit / liquor I have ever seen.

If you think about it, to have a retail price of about $12, Spirits corner must be buying Deva in at about $6. With all the taxes etc, Deva would still want to make a reasonable profit on that transaction, and so if we said that it cost them $1.50 per litre to make and bottle their product.

But their product will not be as good as Teds absinthe I hear you cry, but if you consider it, although the taste might not be as traditional, they still use very similar production methods, and ingredients. Let us suggest that it costs five times as much to make Teds absinthe, this is a hell of a lot more production costs, and probbly considerably less than realistic. This would mean that it cost them $6 to make a litre of absinthe, IF they are selling it by the 750ml as Don stated, then it costs them 4.5 times as much as Deva to make a bottle. Lets say $4.5 pre bottle. The suggested price is $75 (suggested by Don). But they are not selling direct from the distillery, they have set up a company who will distribute it, and presumably will sell at cost to this company. They pay no import duties on the alcohol, only export fees in thailand.
So with the totally hypothetical value of $4.5 per 750ml, we still have $70.5 left to take taxes out of, leaving us with a huge profit margin.

THIS IS TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL< AND IF SOMEONE WOULD CARE TO CORRECT ME ON THIS< MY REAL SUGGESTION IS THAT A LOWER PROFIT WOULD LEAD TO MORE PROFIT IN THE LONG TERM BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULD DRINK THE ABSINTHE EVERYDAY, I mean really can anyone here actually say that they would buy a 750ml bottle of absinthe a month if in a year it would cost youy $900, if you spent $900 on deva, excluding shipping you could get about 75 bottles!

PLEASE DONT PRICE YOURSELVES OUT OF THE MARKET AND REMEMBER THE ABSINTHE THAT OU HAVE REPLICATED WAS AN EVERYDAY DRINK THAT SOLD MILLIONS OF BOTTLES AND WAS DRUNK BY ANYONE AND EVERYONE, NOT JUST THE SUPER RICH WHICH IS WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE IF YOU WERE TO SPEND $75 A POP ON 3/4 OF A LITRE OF ABSINTHE AND DRINK MUCH OF IT OFTEN, ITS AN APERITIF, NOT A HIGH QUALITY TRIPLE DISTILLED MALT WHISKEY THAT YOU MAYBE DRINK A DOUBLE OF AFTER A MEAL ONCE A WEEK

Dont take offence, Don, Ted, discuss dont bully

Tim

By Tavis on Friday, January 26, 2001 - 08:12 am: Edit

Hi, the last isuisse thread (dealer in La Bleue at www.isuisse.com) broke down somewhat. I was just wondering if anybody had tried the absinthe from this dealer since then? I have been offered quite a good price I think, 350 swiss francs for 3 bottles, but before I have to shell out I'd like to know what other people's opinions are of the product.

Cheers,
Tavis

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