What the hell is "anis vert"

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: Topics Archived Thru Jan 2001:What the hell is "anis vert"
By Don_Walsh on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 08:12 am: Edit

Chlorophyll in pure form for food/beverage use is available to the liquor industry; that is one way.

The old way is the other.

We have previously speculated about why no one is using this, preferring dyes. Cheaper and more stable.

By Petermarc on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 06:58 am: Edit

i never said that the color of pontarlier anis was from anis vert, just that it was naturally green (ok so it was a little implied)it is not an absinthe, nor does it claim to be...it is, however, an excellent product...
the ingredients in pontarlier anis are (as listed on the bottle);

anis vert distillé, coloration naturelle obtenue par des plantes.
ingrédients: alcool, substances végétales.

i hope this clears it up for everyone...uh, maybe not...which plants? merde...

By Artemis on Sunday, January 28, 2001 - 05:54 am: Edit

I agree with Don. Linguistically, these things might be confusing, especially in languages other than our own, but anybody who knows what he's doing in liqueur making is not confused by herbal identities.

If any liquoriste is representing one herb as another because he thinks he can get away with it due to consumer ignorance, well that's another matter.

And this also has nothing to do with Ted's products. I neither think he's confused, nor would he pull such a substitution.

By Don_Walsh on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 08:45 pm: Edit


The following remarks have nothing to do with our products


1. Anise is anise.
2. Fennel is fennel.
3. Star anise is star anise

Looking up sometimes dubious refs on the Net will not elucidate but confuse.

If you ever SEE any of these and smell and taste them you will that they don't look alike, they don't particularly smell alike, and they don't especially taste alike. And they don't distill with alcohol alike.

Anyone who tries substituting fennel for anise in a liqueur will get a nasty surprise when they have a taste.

I don't have to tell you about star anise versus anise, just taste MM versus Segarra.

Anise (from USA) is sold in every Thai supermarket. So is fennel. Anise is in every Thai dictionary though they confuse everyone by assisgning the same common name as coriander. (Anise is not coriander but they have more visual resemblance than the others do.) Anise is in the REAL Thai herbal encyclopedia and used to be grown here but is now just imported. Fennel is substituted in Thai cooking.

'Anis vert' is just anise.

DISCLAIMER: This has nothing to do with our products so Ted pls don't garotte me with piano wire...

By Artemis on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:50 pm: Edit

I don't want to steal Phil's thunder, so to speak. It will be up on his website soon, I understand. I would tell you exactly when, but I don't want to put any pressure upon him in case he can't get it up when he plans to. You won't have to wait long, I think. After he posts it, if you want it in a convenient MS Word format, I'll send it to you.

By Grimbergen on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Could you forward me a copy of the translation. That is as long as Phil doesn't mind.


By Artemis on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Yes, I've completed it but the Frenchman won't get around to posting it just yet, he tells me. I expect he will do so in the near future.

As to the angel, I took some poetic license.

"Semences de Angelique" - angelica seeds.
Angelica's Latin name is Angelica archangelica. Lends sort of a "burn" to absinthe that not everybody will appreciate, I understand. Hard to come by, too, so some people will substitute the root.

By Grimbergen on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Artemis, have you finished translating Frenchman's recipe document?

"Imagine wrassling Gabriel to get angel semen!!"
Whoa! You are going to have to spell that one out for me, I am missing the reference.


By Artemis on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:17 pm: Edit

"The French do not and never did call anise fennel, nor fennel anise, I'm pretty sure. They
aren't stupid."

I don't think it is a matter of stupidity.

It is if you're using fennel in place of anise. They aren't the same thing no matter how many people are willing to accept one for the other.

By Artemis on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:14 pm: Edit

Absinthe suisse de Montpellier

Grande absinthe sèche et mondée 2 kil. 500
Anis vert 6
Fenouil de Florence 4
Coriande 1
Semences d'angélique 500 gram.
Alcool à 85 degrés 95 litres.

La coloration se fait avec

Petite absinthe 1 kilogr.
Mélisse sèche de Moldavie 750 gram.
Hysope sèche et fleurie 750

Not just ANY fennel, but Florentine fennel. Not just any lemon balm, but Moldavian lemon balm. These guys weren't kidding around. Imagine wrassling Gabriel to get angel semen!! Or maybe they employed a sultry succubus .........

By Grimbergen on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:10 pm: Edit

"The French do not and never did call anise fennel, nor fennel anise, I'm pretty sure. They aren't stupid."

I don't think it is a matter of stupidity.

"In Far Eastern cuisines (India, Iran, Indonesia), no distinction is made between anis and fennel. Therefore, the same name is usually given to both of them."
This was written in http://www-ang.kfunigraz.ac.at/~katzer/engl/, which is a very good site on spices.

The spices are very similar, and it seems to have resulted in a bit of confusion.

That might even explain why Don can only find fennel in Thailand, if they have the same practice of not making the distinction between the 2.


By Artemis on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 05:04 pm: Edit

But just to further confuse things, from the online Larousse dictionary:

ANIS ou n.m.

Nom commun à la badiane (anis étoilé) et à plusieurs ombellifères (pimprenelle, cumin,
fenouil) cultivées pour leurs fruits, utilisés dans la préparation de tisanes et pour parfumer
diverses boissons alcoolisées.

So not only is anise star anise, but it is also fennel, cumin, and the Scarlet Pimpernel. But I stand by my analysis of the old recipes, because they jive with tasting I've done vs. the results of said recipes. The tongue goes where the dictionary dare not tread.

By Artemis on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Without speculating upon what is or is not in Pontarlier Anis, "Anis Verte" (Green anise) as listed in turn of the century French recipes for absinthe is anise, NOT fennel. I know this because I have translated umpteen said recipes, and they almost always include "fenouil" (fennel) IN ADDITION TO Anise Verte, which is NOT the same as star anise (Anise de L'etoile, also called Badiane).

The French do not and never did call anise fennel, nor fennel anise, I'm pretty sure. They aren't stupid. Marketing schemes may not fall into the realm of what is stupid, I don't know.

Keep in mind that old recipes were written down by people of varying education, and sometimes everything is not as clearcut as we would like. This does not solve what is in fact inside "Pontarlier Anis", but personally, I don't care because it is (presumably) not absinthe.

By Grimbergen on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 04:52 pm: Edit

Belgian site: "Pimpinella anisum L. Anijs Anis (vert)"

German site:
Anis vert is "Pimpinella anisum L.(Apiaceae)"

"Anis Vert Foeniculum vulgare" (fennel)

anis vert is common french name for Pimpinella anisum L.

By Grimbergen on Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Ok, I got looking into this after Petermarc's recent comment:
"'pontarlier anis' by distillerie armand guy
in pontarlier is made with 'anis vert'...it is naturally green and made in old absinthe stills...sweetened (pontsec) or
'a la ancienne'... "

So far I have found differing claims.

This site says that Anis vert is Foeniculum vulgare, or rather fennel, and not Pimpinella anisum (anis).

This french site says that it is Pimpinella anisum (anis).

This site also says that it is Pimpinella anisum (anis). So these last 2 pages seem to suggest that it is just the French name for anis.

There seems to be consensus, that it is not a naturally green form of anis. It is either fennel or anis.

Any thoughts?


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