Found something impertinent

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Archives Thru July 2001: Topics Archived Thru Feb 2001:Found something impertinent
By Lafeeverte on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 01:51 pm: Edit

Just came back from work at 11 - give me some time and I' let you have the review!

Thank s


By Tabreaux on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 02:56 pm: Edit


There are several errors on your website. Are you aware of this?

Versinthe is not absinthe.

Lamesinthe is not absinthe.

Absente is not absinthe.

There are other errors.

By Chrysippvs on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 02:52 pm: Edit


post us a review if you can with a pic of the bottle..

looks like germany may need a section on the BG soon

By Lafeeverte on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 02:48 pm: Edit

I'm glad to see, that everybody did understand my point. Hope we can all forget about the past and go on with our normal business.

Cheers to you all with a glass of new german Absinth called Ulex. Interesting stuff!


By Black_Rabbit on Tuesday, February 20, 2001 - 12:20 pm: Edit

Lafeeverte, it's nice to meet you! Hang out, have some absinthe, shoot the breeze :-)

And yes, with what happened here it is actually normal to discuss things before a direct communication. Most of the time, when someone uses graphics without permission (as you did) they are not going to respond to an email, because they are stealing and they know it. We have all seen that happen before (to Kyle who sells Sebor absinthe to name one.)

What you did is much less common- you used the graphics not knowing it was bad ettiquette to do so, but owned up and changed it as soon as someone told you. Good for you!

I am glad we met you, and I hope you become a forum regular.

By Heiko on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 12:19 pm: Edit

I mean, if it's true (and I don't know why I should not believe him) that he only got an anonymous mail that said "fuck you!", his question was not as bad as you put it.
Wouldn't you be upset (no matter if you stole some site-content before or not) about getting a very insulting, anonymous mail?

By Royale on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 03:10 am: Edit

I am glad to hear that "lafeeverte" is a "great guy", it makes me feel better about sticking up for the underdog. Let us leave this behind and look on to the future.
Bob; chill out on the poor German guy, he is trying his best to communicate his thoughts in a language that is obviously not his own. "to err is human, to forgive, divine"**
lafeeverte; Best of luck with your site and hopefully you will find a wealth of knowledge and support from the users of this forum. And, try to get some sleep, Those long days will kill you.

**This phrase is a selective quotation AND a shameless rip-off from Alexander Pope's "Essay on Criticism". I would link to his website but he died before he was able to complete it.

By Admin on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 10:38 am: Edit

I don't think he's thumbing his nose, he did get a bit crucified here before we contacted him, and that can be a bit unsettling if one does not understand unwritten "rules".

He has since been very forthcoming with communication and helpful information.

By Chrysippvs on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:44 pm: Edit

He is a good guy...he got some nasty e-mails. He literally called me on the telephone from Germany to apologize for using my images and is using a link on my site now. Markus is a great guy and I hope he will do his part to really set things up in Germany.

Just my opinion...

Hey Marc...can you believe we agreed on something?

- J

By Bob_Chong on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 10:20 pm: Edit

I thought so, too, until I read that one sentence. Seemed to be thumbing his nose a bit.


By Marc on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 09:35 pm: Edit


lafeeverte is trying to make amends. He sounds sincere. Perhaps we should cut him some slack and see where he takes things. Maybe he'll do the right thing.

By Bob_Chong on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 09:22 pm: Edit

Is it normal in the US to discuss other people problems this way?

Do you really want to go there? I suggest you stay in your glass house with this line of questioning.


By Lafeeverte on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 01:24 pm: Edit

First I have to excuse me to use some of Kallistis words and graphics on my page. I simply did this to bring live into the Site – not anything else. Absinth is getting more and more known over here, so one has to be very quick in setting up a page. I have a 10 hour working day, study in the evening and doing the Absinth thing at night. So please give me some time to change all the criticized points. In the meantime I will link every page I have taken words or graphics from – just let me know where you like me to place the link. Send me a banner and I will put it one the page – no problem.

One last word in general: As I see there were a lot of statements in this discussion. The only mail I received said “fuck you” – with a fake e-mail address. Very nice! I didn’t got any other mail apart from a german guy, who didn’t mentioned this discussion. Is it normal in the US to discuss other people problems this way? I think a short information what went wrong directly to me would have been the normal way…

By Black_Rabbit on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Actually, I consider DOS attacks effective but ham-handed. I was going to do other, subtler and more annoying things (all legal of course) and contact a few comrades from the Toywar, who annoy bad people on the web as a hobby.

But now, happily, there will be no need for such things :-) It really is better to ask questions first and shoot later!

He is selling Absinthe, so his review section might never have anything negative to say... Maybe he should link to the review section here? And pay Kallisti for any click-throughs.

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 03:55 pm: Edit

yeah we talked about that for a bit...he is really new to the whole bit, so hopefully he will get things together rather fast.

By Tabreaux on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 03:49 pm: Edit

You may want to pass along that his review section is in dire need of help. Saying that Absinth King is the 'finest absinth liqueur' is like waving a big red flag that says, "I'm Stupid", or "Kick Me".

By Admin on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 03:18 pm: Edit

Thanks Justin!

I've been so busy I haven't had the chance to post a missive ... will do soon.

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 02:30 pm: Edit

Just got off the phone with the gentleman who runs the site. I must concede an apology. He literally called me on his dime from Germany to apoligize and has offered to link my site or take all the images off.

The site he put up is brand new and is mostly just templates and such, he is going to change it around most of the images he did get premission to use the Boveresse image.

Kallisti, he said just drop him a line via e-mail and he will take down anything that you want him to and will gladly link your site for any images he is using.

Seems like a nice guy overall. It is just a shame we had to get off on a bad foot.

- J

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 11:02 am: Edit

poor poor Martin...We don't kill people here. We just make them understand our point of view. Isn't that right Don?

By Martin on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 10:57 am: Edit

Kill them! Kill them all! Dance in their blood as it flows into the gutters from whence they came!

Grrr...meow! Woof! Grrrr!


By Bob_Chong on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:26 am: Edit

Release the zombies.

And when the Rabbit mentioned his teeth marks, I pretty much assumed he meant DDOS, no?

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:20 am: Edit

I just e-mailed them a nice word saying take them down or put up a link to my site....if they don't respond I will just have to get nasty..can you say "denial of service attacks"...

just kidding.........

By Admin on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:19 am: Edit

Justin, I think he meant this page (I don't know if they're your glasses, but it is the obvious candidate)



these pages could be found by clicking on the left side bar on this page:

By Absinthedrinker on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:13 am: Edit

Seems we were looking at the same time and cross posted.

Oh yes, glasses and spoons. One of the glass pictures is a ringer for Justin's. Now that would really piss me off.

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:11 am: Edit

ahhh... I just found them...I think they will get a nice e-mail today to the effect of get them down or pay me a royality...

By Admin on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:09 am: Edit

Andy is going to fisticuffs for me! How noble and brave! I will contact them myself soon and see what they have to say (see below for whois info).

Trust me, there are hundreds of sites that have used my images to enhance their own. And generally, yes, I do take it as the best form of flattery. But it's the obfuscation between their site and mine when used to sell a product that gets my hackles up. It was the same for that guy who was selling la bleue awhile back, who had taken just enough images to make the site look almost just like mine.

I don't even mind the use of my fairy (the hand drawn one) so much as that of my logo. It was an obvious thing to steal as our sites have the same name! And the guide reviews. I am a little protective over them, we've spent years compiling and reviewing, and they grabbed many wholesale, and just removed the name of the reviewer.

The best way to deal with it is to contact them directly and ask them to change stuff, give credit, etc. If that doesn't work, you go straight to their webhosting service and they will generally pull stuff that is in violation of copyright laws.

Here's their whois info:

Domaininhaber: Markus Lion
Neudorfstrasse 6c
D-79331 Teningen
Ansprechpartner: ML3227-RIPE
Technischer Ansprechpartner: MR9289-RIPE
Zonenverwalter: MR9289-RIPE
Status: konnektiert

Letzte Aktualisierung: Mittwoch, 27. Dezember 2000
Stand Datenbank: Donnerstag, 8. Februar 2001


Name: Markus Lion
Kontakttyp: Person
Adresse: Allmend Weg 16
Stadt: Boetzingen
PLZ: 79268
NIC-Handle: ML3227-RIPE

Name: Markus Roedling
Kontakttyp: Person
Adresse: Net-Base Computer- u. Netzwerktechnik, Inh.
Markus Roedling
Zaehringer Str. 25
Stadt: Freiburg
PLZ: 79108
Telefon: +49 761 504530
Telefax: +49 761 5045390
NIC-Handle: MR9289-RIPE

By Chrysippvs on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:05 am: Edit

where at? didn't see any of my glasses on there...

By Petermarc on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:05 am: Edit

hence pseudo, historical, and as you said, well done and has become her own...(does phil 'frenchman' look like the guy in the Barth poster?)

By Bob_Chong on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 07:57 am: Edit


Looks like they took your glasses pix.


By Bob_Chong on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 07:45 am: Edit

About the so-called "self portrait": it is NOT completely original. Add Photoshop, time, and this picture:

Get it? I still say Kallisti's rendering of it is cool and her own, but this particular green fairy already existed decades before any of us here were born.

As for the rest of the content, it is a shameless rip-off. I laughed at the selective quoting of Ted's reviews (i.e., to remove anything negative from thhe Czech reviews). At least they didn't cite Ted in their current form, or it would have created a problem of credibility (for Ted and for JL). I mean, Ted's bread and butter regarding the swill out there has been to debunk myth after myth--here, on usenet, etc.


By Petermarc on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 06:52 am: Edit

in case my sarcasm was too vague, i would like it to be clear that i am blown away by the site's artistic plagiarism... the red-headed muse of kallisti (which i have always considered a pseudo-
self portrait) the la fée eye, the la fée ritual cartoon (god, it's bad enough as it is, couldn't they have used a real absinthe glass, it is a drawing, fcs!)and the goofy green cartoon fairy is the symbol of the swiss boverese festival...i don't have any problem using historical (old) paintings, pictures, etc. for a site, but to use newly created art(especially logo art) shows a huge lack of effort and creativity...kallisti's site is unique, original and it is obvious she has put a great deal of time and energy into lift things as it has been done, is really a little much....

By Royale on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 05:31 am: Edit

Sounds like the cast of "Cannonball Run: The race still goes on" just throw Michael Knight, Snoop Dogg and "those Duke Boys" in and you have yourself a summer box office smash! I agree that they have stolen from Kallisti but think their intentions were probably good. Or who knows maybe they are evil, thieving bastards, I can't even read half of what's on their site. I agree with Rtlplus3 and what I believe Petermarc is saying too. The cream always rises. Kallisti should be flattered. I also stand by the idea that those that have the resources should help them get something good going instead of attacking them. I think the beauty of the internet is one can create a community (even if you can't read their damn reviews) Another idea.. Maybe one of you linguists one can translate so they can post in English too!

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 05:07 am: Edit

There is a line between creative plagiarism and wholesale theft, aka copyright infringment, and baby, they haven't just stepped over the line, they have driven an 18-wheeler convoy over it, with Kris Kristoffersen and CB radios and Burt Reynolds and the ghost of Jackie Gleason as Sheriff Buford T.Justice, in the parade.

By Royale on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 05:00 am: Edit

All artists are "inspired" by other artists. If Paul and John didn't rip off Chuck Berry and Carl Perkins (to name only a few) Rock 'n' Roll would have died after Elvis released "Do The Clam". I see little harm in the content and photos ask them to give credit and link to this site. I understand your concern about appeared affiliation and it is probably a good idea to have them remove your logo from their title page. Other than an obvious lack of artistic ability, I feel there is little to blame them for. Kallisti's site is a great site with tons of worthwhile information placed on the web for public consumption. It is an obvious place to start if you want to create a quality Absinthe site. Maybe in time will carve out their own niche and bring something valuable to us all. Here's an idea...why don't one of you artists design them a good logo so they can give Kallisti her girl back and they can ditch that stupid green elf holding a twig.

By Germanandy on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 01:53 am: Edit

ok, i received the mail from my friend.
he says it is absolutely illegal to use graphics and text from other webpages (i guess we all know this).
everthing is automaticly copyrighted (worldwide), even if the owner has announced no copyright.
i send a mail to the owner of the page, he answered that he will format his page soon (what ever this means, maybe translate all the stuff into german language?), he used all this stuff just to bring some life on his page.
i told him to contact kallisti to give her some explanations.
let's see.


By Tavis on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 12:21 am: Edit

Well, I think would be interested to see this site. They've taken the La Fee eye as a basis for their 'eye with arrows', and on their 'trinken' page have stolen the graphic of how to drink absinthe using the 'flaming' ritual....

By Germanandy on Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 12:05 am: Edit

i've sent a mail to a friend of mine (he is a lawyer) and asked him if there is any possibility to do something.
i will post his answer asap.


By Sprite on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 10:30 pm: Edit

Oh my, I was checking the forum, and saw your posts, I can't believe they stole the victorian absinthe lady graphic and copied everything word for word! Well, I for one won't do business with them ever (and I'm a new absinthe lover), if they will steal art and content from someone, then just think of how bad a business transaction with them might go! And here, I thought thujone got rid of WORMS!

By Germanandy on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 10:24 pm: Edit

i've send them a mail, wait whether they answer.


By Black_Rabbit on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Kallisti, they stole your Absinthe Fairy drawing. Your original, copywritten artwork.

I guess you could politely ask them to get their own content. First. Before... well, before you say 'sic em.' If you want to, that is. Cause I will... They will never get the rabbity toothmarks out of their asses.

By Morriganlefey on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 05:40 pm: Edit

And they have THIS to say about King Absinth -

"The King of absinthes is without doubt the best absinthe liqueur available on today's market."

Good lord, they MUST be smoking something.

Bad, bad, BAD little doggies.

- Morrigan

By Germanandy on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 04:58 pm: Edit

uh, andy is there a german phrase for 'imitation
is the sincerest form of flattery?'
quote end

yep, imitation ist aufrichtigste form der schmeichelei.


By Rtlplus3 on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 04:52 pm: Edit

I don't think it will take anybody too long to to see where the spring is. This is a great site and greatness is hard to imitate! Thank you Kallisti!
back to the shadows

By Petermarc on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 04:51 pm: Edit

but it's 'absinth' with no 'e' i said before,completely original...

uh, andy is there a german phrase for 'imitation
is the sincerest form of flattery?'

By Admin on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Heh, and they also put absinthforum in the keyword search.

Dang & drat. I hate this. Looks like they are deliberately trying to blur the lines.

By Admin on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 04:19 pm: Edit

cheeky bastards! Wow, they took all my text & artist selections almost verbatim. It's the original artwork and the 3874030812 images of bottles from the guide that I personally edited that makes me twitch tho.

Don't mind too much anymore, but people less familiar with my site might think we're associated. What do YOU all think?

Oh wait, WTF???? They've taken ALL the text off of the guide. Kill, kill, kill.

By Petermarc on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 04:17 pm: Edit

this site has färfugnugen!
and is not at all like kallisti's...

uh, are you getting royalties?

By Germanandy on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 04:11 pm: Edit

ok, look here and click on the swiss flag (read at la bleue).

By Petermarc on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 03:53 pm: Edit

no, it all looks like original stuff to me...cough...

By Germanandy on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 03:44 pm: Edit

i stumbled over a new site, i think they stole a lot from kallistis page, take a look.



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