|By Artemis on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 08:02 am: Edit|
"Argh. People not responding to customer inquiries is one of the most annoying things ever."
Amen. There is a mailorder/Internet cigar vendor, I forget their name at the moment, but they consistently show up as a top vendor in consumer ratings. I wrote to them like three times asking for a printed catalog (which they do have) and never got a response, much less a catalog. They have a better chance of selling a cigar to Abe Lincoln than to me.
Back to fermented milk. When I lived in Japan, there was a fermented milk drink (I think) that they put into cans - it was sold in vending machines on the street along with other drinks. It was called "Calpis" or "Kalpis". The TV commercial was funny. A guy with a huge smile would say what sounded like:
"UMMMMMMMMMM! COW PISS!
|By Grimbergen on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 12:33 pm: Edit|
"My interest in lactose-based EtOH ended with the report that its off-tastes are unsuitable for its use in liqueur making. Besides -- they never answered my email."
Argh. People not responding to customer inquiries is one of the most annoying things ever. In my brief forays into the working world, the number one reason why companies lost potentially large orders is failure to respond to inquiries. They spend so much fucking money on marketing and then ignore the customers once they're interested. I have seen an ungodly amount of lost business from this.
ok. sorry folks. that's my rant of the day.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 12:05 pm: Edit|
How many Mongols are there?
Kumis is fermented mare's milk.
The Tibetans and/or Nepalese do something similar with yak milk.
The aforementioned Eskimo drink, seems related.
Dunno the yeasts involved though.
Anyway that's all I know. If I were in the dairy business on a grand scale I might look into this as a fuel-ethanol sideline, but I'm not. On the other hand I do have friends in that business here...I wonder what they do with their whey/casein?
My interest in lactose-based EtOH ended with the report that its off-tastes are unsuitable for its use in liqueur making. Besides -- they never answered my email.
|By Grimbergen on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 11:52 am: Edit|
Thanks Don. "Kluyveromyces fragilis" is I guess what I was looking for. Nothing I've ever come across in any books. But then again, how many people are interested in fermenting milk?
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 02:54 am: Edit|
Those are the most relevant pages from the Carbery (Ireland) site. They ferment lactose with a Kluyveromyces fragilis yeast strain.
Carbery also produces grain alcohol, and apparently it is the latter they use to make Boru Vodka, not the lactose-feedstock product.
Now let me go dig up Anchor NZ.
They are using casein dairy byproduct containing 4% lactose as feedstock with unspecified lactose-specific yeasts.
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 02:42 am: Edit|
And Grim, I guess maybe you were asking me about the fermentation process for whey/lactose, rather than the usefulness of the product ethanol. ABout that, I know about nada, but I can give you the URL's of both sites I know that describe it, and I am sure the literature (of chemical engineering, biochemistry, food chemistry, the dairy business etc.) is probably a rich source of primary info to tap, and you are in a better position than I am to do so.
So I will go look up those URL's and post them here. Ain't I a sweetheart?
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 02:36 am: Edit|
The NZ liqueur maker (who basically sell only in NZ and just export a little to Australia) is Prenzel:
And this is what they said in their FAQ responding to the following question:
"What alcohol is used in Prenzel Products?"
"We use a mixture of different alcohols - particularly in the Prenzel Pro range. Some of the alcohols we distil ourselves from New Zealand fruits. Others are imported. We import rum; wood-aged brandy; neutral spirit derived from cane sugar; neutral spirit derived from citrus fruits and neutral spirit derived from maize.
The only spirit we never use is neutral spirit made from whey - though it is much cheaper than other alcohols and is used by many of our competitors; it has a slightly different taste to it and can often spoil other flavours."
Pls note this is PRENZEL's quote and not Jade Liqueurs!
|By Don_Walsh on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 02:26 am: Edit|
Grim, there are two dairies (one in Ireland and Anchor in NZ) making ethanol from whey/lactose commercially. They claim the stuff is potable and in at least one case I saw specs that I would have to call very clean.
However, I also saw a site of a NZ liqueur maker (commercially) which stated that they (the liqueur maker) has used a variety of ethanols from various feedstocks (grain, corn, etc.) and all were OK except for the much cheaper ethanol from whey/lactose, which had an off-flavor or flavors that messed up any liqueur they tried to make from it. As these guys are in NZ it is a fair guess they mean Anchor and not the Irish operation.
So we are talking about an allegedly unacceptable organoleptic factor, presumably some cogener(s) that do not show up on the usual assays but that definitely bugger the taste. Accordingly I am skeptical about alcohol from this source for these reasons -- and also I did write to them and ask for a quote on their XNS (extra neutral spirits) grade, and they never replied. No, I wasn't really serious about using this alcohol, but I wanted a reference price. Without a reply, they are really crossed off my list.
BTW there is a international organization which acts as impartial arbiter (for a fee) of the organoleptic (taste) and other analytically determinable characteristics of potable ethanol for purposes of guaranteeing that commercial buyers of bulk neutral spirits get what they are ordering. For makers like us, who are intensely concerned with the flavor and purity of the spirits we use as 'raw material' for making our premium absinthes, such a service is a very valuable one, because we can't afford to get stuck with a 30,000 liter shipment of poor quality spirits can we?
|By Grimbergen on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:27 pm: Edit|
I think I read that some wild yeast can ferment lactose, but not well. This would explain the mildly fermented milk beverage of the eskimos.
|By Grimbergen on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:14 pm: Edit|
what do you know about the whey/lactose alcohol? I know that beer yeast can't ferment lactose, that is why it is used to sweeten and add body to some beers. So I guess it boils down to either they use some other sort of yeast, or there is something else that is fermentable in whey. Any idea? does whey contain a high amount of starches?
|By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 01:33 pm: Edit|
We all do crazy, foolish things from time to time.
|By Artemis on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:32 am: Edit|
"As to the damaging effects of GA, I thought that the fact that it is 95% alcohol would mean that drinking even a couple of glasses of neat GA would put your liver in instant danger. Is this a fact or am I mistaken? It was Everclear that I was talking about."
I don't know. I've never drunk the stuff other than after it's turned into absinthe, at which point it's only 70% alcohol, and after I've cut it with water, at which point it's much less. I was only trying to show that there's nothing inherently bad about grain alcohol just because it comes from grain.
|By Don_Walsh on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:30 am: Edit|
Yes and no.
'grain alcohol' means 95% potable neutral spirits from grain feedstock, obviously other feedstocks are possible, notably corn, rice, cassava, whey/lactose, potatoes, etc.
The feedstock has a tremendous influence on cogeners present and in what qty, although in principle, any feedstock can produce clean alcohol -- some just more economically than others. The dairy byproduct alcohols of Ireland and New Zealand (from whey/lactose) have a rep as being organoleptically poor although they are really cheap, for example.
If you guys are talking about drinking 95% NEAT you are crazy. If you mix 95% with water 1:1 what you have is 100 proof vodka. If you mix it with grave juice at various concentrations you have Purple Passion, great collegiate fun.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 11:18 am: Edit|
Any man who can drink grain alcohol by the pint is a man to be reckoned with indeed, I have never been capable of that. As to the damaging effects of GA, I thought that the fact that it is 95% alcohol would mean that drinking even a couple of glasses of neat GA would put your liver in instant danger. Is this a fact or am I mistaken?
It was Everclear that I was talking about.
|By Heiko on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 04:39 am: Edit|
Is it possible that this strange feeling comes from the alcohol (better: too much of it!), but the difference with Absinthe is that it keeps you awake, kind of lifts you up.
So, if you had the same hangover just from the alcohol, you would really feel sick and stay in bed (your mental state would be the same), but together with Absinthe you feel normal in the first place because you feel awake and fit, and then get to experience the difference in your mental state?
I came to this conclusion, because the two times I had this feeling, I had really been drunk - the amount of Absinthe wasn't especially high - but I had also had a lot of other drinks. In my opinion without the Absinthe I would have felt worse the next day (and had therefore not been able to feel a sublime difference in my mental state because of the headache...).
|By Ekmass on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 12:59 am: Edit|
oops make that, I have never had Deva, ...
|By Ekmass on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 12:58 am: Edit|
Pata, never has Deva, but it happened w/ some unknown Portugese brands and w/ la bleue
|By Artemis on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 05:32 pm: Edit|
The source of the "underground" absinthe I've raved about is 100% grain alcohol, more specifically Everclear, which is about as clean an alcohol you can get. It won't hurt you just by the fact it's grain alcohol. If you drink it by the pint, that's another matter.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 01:44 pm: Edit|
Never had it happen with Deva or Lasalla, but I got shit-faced on grain alcohol and I had a 3 day 'out-of-body' type hangover. Its just the booze fucking you up, nothing more. Also if anybody is dumn enough to do as I did and get pissed on grain alcohol, then don't, it is likely to cause instant liver damage and possible death.
|By Black_Rabbit on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 12:57 pm: Edit|
Never had that happen with Deva, but I have with Lasalla.
|By Artemis on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 08:21 am: Edit|
"the first person here to actually refer to me as "intelligent"."
It's pretty obvious you're intelligent. I don't think that was ever an issue here. Certainly not with me.
"I'm glad at least some people take me seriously."
Martin, sometimes it's difficult to tell if you're taking yourself seriously. FWIW, when I can tell you're being serious, I take you seriously.
|By Fluid on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 07:39 am: Edit|
I had the same exprience with Deva, and it was not unlike other mild o.b.e.'s. Feelings of simple disconnection, along with a detached point-of-view and a sensation of slowed-time are all indicative of the body's need to purge or heal from an unknown intruder.
While the body is healing itself, it will typically shut off the person from the process to prevent interference. In other words, the detachment is a survival mechanism that keeps you from screwing up the healing with worry or concern.
It's not a big deal. Once you go through it (once or a few times), the body or ego becomes familiar with the intruder and gets comfortable with the purge required to heal it. After that, there's no need to disconnect you; the process takes less energy and can easily occur in the background (subconscious).
Specifically to Deva, it's the only absinthe I've gotten excessively drunk on, so I can't say whether the experience is specific to Deva or if it's my body getting used to alcohol/herbs/wormwood in general or in that specific combination, or even some coloring agent allergen... only the body knows for sure.
|By Artemis on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 07:36 am: Edit|
"Quite honestly, I felt the 'cryptic knowledge' comment was pointed and likewise pointed at me,"
So did I, Ted, but I thought it was pointed more generally at a small group of people, including you and me.
"Therefore, the only current conclusion is that what absinthe does or does not do for you is not necessary applicable to anyone else."
Amen. Almost certainly not applicable, I would say. Different brains, different sets, different settings ....
|By Pataphysician on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 07:13 am: Edit|
>like walking around in a bubble where things happen, you are aware of them but somewhat detached.
Yes, that's what I felt, too. I think there is something to this. And it's not the power of suggestion. I had never heard of anyone having this reaction before, and I assume you didn't either.
So there are at least 4 people in this small group who've had a similar experience? And was it always with Deva?
>Frankly it is not all that enjoyable, especially if you have to work.
Ha ha! Right! I really love my job, but I was detached to the point of always thinking "Why am I doing this? What is the purpose of this?" But I was fully capable of doing it, unlike being hungover.
>Maybe it is just alcohol poisoning but I have drank alot and it never happened w/ any other booze.
I've had plenty of hangovers and they have all been the same. This was distinctly different.
|By Marc on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 01:51 am: Edit|
I have tried salvia divinorum. Powerful stuff.
I have never eaten amanita muscaria. With amanita
there is a thin line between getting high and getting sick.
My wife, Jennifer, had an out-of-body experience with salvia. She left her body and revisited her childhood. The salvia experience is of a very short duration, 1 or 2 minutes. But, in that time Jennifer became a child again, lying in the grass outside her suburban childhood home, watching the sun reflecting off the white wooden slats of the two-story house where she lived. As she was tripping, I sat with her. She was clearly no longer in our apartment in NYC. She was elsewhere. When she returned to her body and our apartment, she was disappoined in how short the trip was. She wanted to "work with the experience" more. In it's brevity, the salvia high is too fleeting to allow for adequate exploration.
|By Heiko on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 01:20 am: Edit|
I'm feeling irie again :-))
I cannot say my experiences were dramatic - the feeling from Absinthe is not extreme, you might even say it's just an "undertone" - but I love this special undertone so much that I easily get euphoric about it...or something like this.
I don't like the extremes any more (even I'm still young, well, kind of...), so if Absinthe really made you "halluzinate" or see "green devils dancing" I wouldn't drink it, especially not almost daily.
And btw I never in my life had what could be called a real o.o.b.e. (from nothing) - I heard from people who had this from Salvinorin or from one of these old witchcraft plants (don't know the English names, these alkaloid things like muscarin a.s.o.) - I would not recommend this to anybody! What I heard was just enough to know that I absolutely never want to do this!
--> I guess none of you meant this kind of "real" o.o.b.e., you were all just saying "kind of", only as a metaphor for a certain feeling.
|By Martin on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 12:47 am: Edit|
Sorry if my comment seemed like it was aimed at you. It wasn't really, but after I posted it, I realized you'd probably take it that way. Oh well, if it helps my case any, I was overtaken by the Green Fairy (a la Deva) when I wrote it (though I still stand by every word of it). The "cryptic knowledge" thing was more a general statement about anyone who dare spout about absinthe without really knowing what the "experience" is like. It DOES change you. It changed me, it changed Pataphysician. Perhaps we are the "lucky" ones.
Thank you very much for the positive comments. You're the first person here to actually refer to me as "intelligent". I can see you and few others here understand what I'm about. I'm glad at least some people take me seriously.
|By Ekmass on Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 12:39 am: Edit|
ok this 3 day oobe i would not classify as mystical but certainly strange. For me it was not a ëuphoric state more like walking around in a bubble where things happen, you are aware of them but somewhat detached. Frankly it is not all that enjoyable, especially if you have to work. Maybe it is just alcohol poisoning but I have drank alot and it never happened w/ any other booze.
|By Marc on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 11:23 pm: Edit|
Thankyou for your kind words.
I admire your desire to pursue mystical experiences. I too am a seeker of the sublime.
My experiences with absinthe have not been as dramatic as yours. I am skeptical regarding absinthe-induced 3 day out- of-body experiences. But, as Ted suggested, it's all subjective.
My advice regarding forum etiquette comes from personal experience. When I first started posting here, I came on strong. In time, I learned to listen. I listened to learn. Now, I'm a know-it-all. Actually, I have come to realize how little I know and how much there is to discover about The Green Fairy.
|By Tabreaux on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 03:16 pm: Edit|
Quite honestly, I felt the 'cryptic knowledge' comment was pointed and likewise pointed at me, although I try not to take offense at such minor things. There is not a soul on this BB who can comment truthfully on the extent of my experiences on this subject for reasons which are obvious to anyone who can think their way out of a paper bag.
It is no secret that there is a great deal of exaggeration on this subject. Just have a look around. Anyone who speaks of dramatized experiences should expect that not everyone will accept what they say at face value. Nevertheless, 'experiences' vary, and without a true double-blind study, whether you have an objective 'experience' or one that is a result of the power of suggestion, there can be no objective conclusion.
Therefore, the only current conclusion is that what absinthe does or does not do for you is not necessary applicable to anyone else.
|By Heiko on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 02:40 pm: Edit|
I'm sorry! This is not what I intended - please let me try to explain this:
That "cryptic knowledge about all things absinthe" was a quote from Martin, I would probably not have said it that way (it was a bit rude, I agree with that). I did not know that someone here doesn't like Martin, I can only say I know him as a very intelligent person (from what I read on the forum) - I don't think I have to dumbdown to make friends with him.
I also didn't come up with the "out-of-body"-thing, that was first mentioned by Pataphysician and then quoted by Ekmass. I didn't even say I experienced this but only said they might mean the same with it what I in a former post called "good mood" (which is IMHO not very "mystic" or "cosmic").
I admit I am relatively new to Absinthe and I am probably still a bit euphoric about it - this will change as I get more experienced and I appreciate very much what I could learn from all of you up to now.
I understand you don't want this newcomer's talk on the forum too much to prevent a big hype about absinthe which would not be good at all.
Marc, I just looked at your website and read your short autobiography and found out you are not someone who doesn't understand mystic thoughts (or whatever you want to call it). I cannot at all keep up with your experience and I respect your way of live very much (and this is no dumb "making friends" - I really do!). I was pleased to see you are not at all kind of a "hypocritical, serious businessman" but someone who is real and unique. The more I regret having insulted you (even I did not mean to) because I always wished we had more people like you on this earth and NOT these "serious businessmen".
OK, sorry again if anyone felt insulted! I spent a lot of time now writing this because I'm real serious about it (in this post, absolutely NOTHING is meant sarcastic - I am someone who does not want to insult anyone, and I really feel the adrenaline rush in my brain when I have to find out I accidentally did!). If there's any problem or ambiguity with my phrasing - tell me, English is not my mother tongue, so please forgive me...
|By Timk on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 02:39 pm: Edit|
Personally, all i ever get with any ultra high alcoihol intake is a lightheaded feeling for about 3 days. When I drang Deva every day for two weeks, each time after the first two days, i had a slight light headed feeling that lasted an hour or so, but saying that I also find this with other alcohol, although admittedly normally spirits. Possibly some component of the alcohol gives this effect, but unless you really binge, it is really subtle. Anyway, the 3-day lightheadedness thing was probably my body suffering the effects of alcohol poisoning.
|By Pataphysician on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 02:27 pm: Edit|
You forgot to tar me with that brush. And I'm the one who applied that "out-of-body" phrase to Martin's experience. I'll stand by them -- I've had a similar experience. And I'm certainly no youngblood. Self-deluded? I don't think so, but I can't really make that call.
Like the secondary effect, some people feel it and some do not. Just because you and everyone you have talked to have not experienced this, doesn't mean others haven't, it doesn't make it bullshit. Actually, I was surprised to hear two other people having a similar experience to mine. I thought mine was a complete anamoly, because I'd never heard anything like it before.
Here's what happened to me. I drank many glasses of Deva with the intention of pushing the envelope. I didn't keep count. I felt the usual secondary effects I get after 3 or more glasses, nothing more. But I was wide awake all night, not like an insomniac, just lying there in the dark contentedly thinking about nothing in particular. In the morning I got up refreshed and not hung over. I functioned as normal, but I felt different, strange. I would say depressed, but that wasn't quite it. Gloomy, introspective. And not groggy, not hung-over. If anything, I felt more energetic, even restless. I know "out-of-body" is a hackneyed and inaccurate term to use. More like a seperation of body and mind. That, "What am I doing here?" feeling. Now this wasn't cosmic, it wasn't overwhelming, it was just ... strange. This lasted exactly 3 days and then disappeared completely.
So, come on people, step forward, anyone else had this happen?
|By Marc on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 12:37 pm: Edit|
you're new here. It might be a good idea to get to know the members of the forum before you start
insulting them. Calling forumites "know it alls" is rude in the extreme. Many people come to the forum
for "cryptic knowledge about all things absinthe".
This afterall is an absinthe forum. You don't have to dumbdown in here to make friends. We admire people of knowledge.
This talk of 3 day out of body experiences induced by absinthe is bullshit. I've been drinking absinthe for years, have many absinthe-drinking friends, and I have yet to encounter anyone who has had such experiences. That is until you and Martin came along. I think you're just a couple of self-deluded youngbloods projecting your own cosmic needs onto a drink.
|By Heiko on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 11:22 am: Edit|
This 3 day out-of-body experience and lightheadedness is probably what I was talking about when I said that I wake up in a good mood after some Absinth. It's kind of feeling "special", like something has changed, you don't know what, but you know it's good ;-)
"All these other know-it-alls with their cryptic knowledge of All Things Absinthe... that isn't worth shit without the full EXPERIENCE. You have to LIVE the absinthe. You have to let it take over...."
Yeah Martin, you say it, I agree - that's what I think, too: if it wasn't for the effect and experience, why would I drink Absinthe (or alcohol in general)? I guess there's two approaches to Absinthe: First is the one from being an expert in liquors, second is that from being an expert in things that twist your brain. I admit mine is the second one ;-)
But this is in my opinion in no way inferior to the first one, because I feel the slightest nuances of the effect and judge different brands as selectively as the liquor-experts - only that for me the effect is primary and taste is secondary (I don't say I don't care about it, I just say "secondary").
|By Pikkle on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 09:55 am: Edit|
Hmmm... auto body... that's funny... same glazed over expressions, same feeling that you're floating above the smog watching yourself welding one truck frame after another after another while you're trying to figure out a way to sneak off the line early and into a bottle of Jack Daniels. Read 'Rivethead' by Ben Hamper for the full Michigan experience... I'll take the three day hangover haze anyday!
|By Pataphysician on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 06:59 am: Edit|
>That's what happens when you live too close to Detroit too...
Pikkle, you're thinking of the "auto body experience." Haw-haw-haw!!
|By Martin on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 05:13 am: Edit|
Yes, Pataphysician & Ekmass.. you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. It is only us, the chosen few who've had our spirits hijacked like that who can consider ourselves true "absintheurs".
All these other know-it-alls with their cryptic knowledge of All Things Absinthe... that isn't worth shit without the full EXPERIENCE. You have to LIVE the absinthe. You have to let it take over.... this is why we come back, for more, and more, and more. And it's so beautiful. So pure.
Deva may not be "authentic" by many standards, but my god... they sure did get the effects perfect.
|By Ekmass on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 12:20 am: Edit|
yeah, that 3 day out of body experience/hangover from absinthe I deem the tertiary effects or quaternary if you count the headache as well.
|By Ekmass on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 - 12:18 am: Edit|
yeah that 3 day öut of body experience /hangover from absinthe I call the tertiary effects or quaternary if you count the headache as well.
|By Pikkle on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 09:34 pm: Edit|
That's what happens when you live too close to Detroit too...
|By Pataphysician on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 04:51 pm: Edit|
I had the same thing happen with too much Deva. Not a hangover, but I felt strange for exactly three days. Gloomy and detached, kind of "out-of-body" like.
|By Grimbergen on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 03:52 pm: Edit|
After I'm done fermenting a batch of beer, I always try to pressure innocent bystanders into taking shots of yeast. I tell them it's good for them, but I really just like seeing them squirm. A shot of yeast is the most pleasant looking thing. It also has a horrendous texture.
|By Timk on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 03:50 pm: Edit|
Thats odd, martin, whenever i used to get totally drunk - pass out / collapse, spend the rest of the night unconscious, i always used feel odd - kind of light headed - for about three days after - wonder what has such a long lasting effect?
However I am proud to say I have never had a hangover, my motto is if you feel that bad, throw it up.
|By Loucheliver on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 03:19 pm: Edit|
Correcto Grim! I bottle my own high powered cider and it is bottle conditioned. I always pour off all but the yeasties into a glass for appearances sake, then slug back the goodies at the bottom of the bottle. Voila! Hangover free.
|By Grimbergen on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 02:52 pm: Edit|
Yeast is packed full of the B-complex. If you drink a bottled conditioned beer (most belgains) you will get a ton of B vitamens.
|By Loucheliver on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 02:47 pm: Edit|
I've used the B vitamin + water ploy successfully myself, when I've remebered to. 2 B-complex before bed, chugged down w/a quart of aqua pura. Does the trick no matter what you drink, and your piss is the lovliest color the next day. But no, it doesn't louche.
|By Martin on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 02:36 pm: Edit|
I've never had a hangover from beer alone. I think I've only really been hungover maybe three times. Once when I was drinking everything in sight; beer, whiskey, vodka, some crazy mixed drink with God-knows-what in it, then I got really high... I was so damn sick the next day. Another time from drinking way way too much of that nasty Pernod stuff (I probably had alcohol poisoning). And once from Deva, though that one wasn't really much of a hangover.. no headaches or nausea, I just felt really really strange for about three days.
I'm usually fine if I don't go too crazy with mixing alcohol types and if I drink alot of water before going to sleep. Usually, I wake up the next morning feeling refeshed and wide-awake. Nothing quite like a coma-like sleep to help the body rejuvinate itself.
|By Grimbergen on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 02:04 pm: Edit|
If I recall correctly, cider generally has a much higher level of methanol than beer or wine. That would account for the hangovers.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 11:41 am: Edit|
I must try a glass of water with every drink as lately I have serious problems holding my liquor.
|By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 11:36 am: Edit|
As far the worst hangover goes, I'd have to say in my experience cider like Woodchuck and Hornsby's rank high. But really cheap tequila has hit me the worst. Beer doesn't give me as bad of a hangover because I have a much better idea how much I'm drinking. Because it is so dilute the feedback loop isn't as sneaky as it is with higher alcohol products.
I can confirm that a high dose of water before bed works wonders. If I don't want to get drunk in the first place, I have had success ordering a large glass of water with no ice along with every drink and down it on the spot, before touching the drink. I've found I can drink alarming quantities of ETOH this way, and not even get that buzzed.
|By Tabreaux on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 10:45 am: Edit|
Undistilled products that are created via fermentation (wine, beer) will likely give the worst hangovers. Good quality grapes give a comparatively 'clean' fermentation, but drinking an excess of wine seems to deliver equal punishment.
|By Heiko on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 10:38 am: Edit|
The worst hangovers I ever experienced were from beer (there's differences in what kind of beer - but most of them cause headache).
Water is a very good thing against it - but you have to drink a lot of it, before you go to bed! Minerals like magnesium also work.
Isn't Aspirin on alcohol the worst thing you could do for your stomach? I've heard it might cause stomach-bleeding or sth. like that. It may work of course, because it thins your blood.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 10:27 am: Edit|
I've yet to come across any type of booze that doesn't cause a hangover, (although I find Guinness or Mead to cause the least hangover, and Cider to cause the worst). Deva definitely does give me a hangover, (as does all other absinthe I've got drunk on).
I haven't seen Gladiator yet, I'm told it's good. A lot of my friends were extras in it, so I'm not sure whether their opinions can be trusted.
|By Pikkle on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 08:51 am: Edit|
Well, If i can remember, and it's not too often, I drink about two or three large glasses of water before bed and a couple of aspirin... so even if I'm risk of a doozy of a hangover, it is actually lessened... I can say I've had a few hangovers from Deva myself, still not as bad as say a half fifth of Five O'Clock brand vodka but more severe than Grey Goose. When I can remember the water and the aspirin before passing out, it helps.
|By Ekmass on Tuesday, February 13, 2001 - 12:28 am: Edit|
Do not know about anyone else but when I know I will be drinking alot I usually take 3 or 4 doses of a mega vitamin B tab. One at the evening's beginning, one before bed and then one or two in the AM. I find that this really helps to reduce the hangover effects and greatly shorten them. It is most useful w/ spirts, not beer or wine. As far as I can tell these two, especially beer leave you feeling like warm vomit in the gutter.
|By Tabreaux on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 09:52 pm: Edit|
Thanks for sharing that. I've wondered about the quality of alcohol typical of those products. I will be anxious to examine the chromatograms with respect to your observations.
|By Anatomist1 on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 09:25 pm: Edit|
I drank many glasses of Deva and Serpis a few nights ago, and finally watched GLADIATOR on DVD to boot. Good movie, bad morning. I can attest that Deva and Serpis will definitely give you a hangover. I feel like steering clear of both of those bottles for a long while.
|By Tabreaux on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 09:17 pm: Edit|
I had a curious evening once not long ago with a very well known and distinguished Hollywood writer/director. We were at his place, having a few glasses of some material I contributed (at about 70%) . A few became about six, and when his charming PA jumped on the coffee table and (she) started dancing, I was relieved that I was not the only one in 'la-la-land'. To get the point of the story, I was amazed that the next day, I merely felt like someone had hit me hard with a pillow. I felt a bit 'overrun', but I did not have the splitting headache I anticipated. This is solely because the alcohol was very clean.
|By Pikkle on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 08:06 pm: Edit|
On New Year's Eve, I drank a half a liter of Betina's La Bleue within several hours and had little or no hangover... a little groggy the next day but no nausea, headache or any of the other symptoms I have come to characterize as being synonymous with my hangovers. I have had absinthe hangovers but none have ever been as severe as with other liquors I've drank in the same volume. I do best when I don't mix different beverages or even different brands.
|By Tabreaux on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 08:36 am: Edit|
Regarding hangovers, you can have two otherwise identical products, with the exception that one is made with 'less refined' alcohol. You will have a hangover from that product, but possibly not the other. I use the word "possibly" only because there may be an expected constituent of the 'clean' product which contributes to a hangover.
|By Heiko on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 08:22 am: Edit|
I guess you're right that this "Anti-Drunkenness-Powder" was in fact cocaine, it might even be possible that it was Bayer's famous invention "heroin", which was also used to treat alcohol-addiction - mostly the addicts ended up having a triple addiction...
BTW Coca Cola came to drugstores first because the beginning prohibition made it hard to sell the famous "Vin Mariani" - CC was then advertized as "featuring all the benefits of cocaine, without the harmful alcohol!" ;-)
About the hangovers: Do you really have heavy hangovers from Absinthe?
I experienced having almost no hangovers at all - the amount of alcohol you have to drink is not as high as with other drinks and the wormwood kind of slowly fades away. I thought this to be really remarkable because the effects are really good and usually anything having great effects produces serious hangovers.
The only thing I once experienced with strong Absinthe (I guess I have to call it "alcoholic wormwood extract" rather than "Absinthe" - to please the purists ;-)) was that I was hardly able to sleep the whole night long and every time I woke up I realized I had had the strangest of dreams.
Now that drugs were mentioned before, I dare to ask (I usually won't mention this too much because this is an Absinthe-forum): Don't you think that the wormwood-effect is to some parts similar to coke or mdma? Of course it is not as strong and extreme, but that's the good thing about it in my opinion - no depressive "coming down" but as I just said above "slowly fading away", and it lets you get up in a good mood/condition the next morning.
Does someone think the same about it?
|By Marc on Monday, February 12, 2001 - 03:40 am: Edit|
it's been my experience that having a coke habit does NOT cut down on one's drinking. Quite the opposite. 2 decades ago when I was a coke hound
I drank massive amounts of booze. Booze takes the
edge off of blow. It also helps the unpleasantness of the cocaine "crash". In addition, alcohol and cocaine together are a powerful aphrodisiac. You may not be able to get it up, but you can eat poontang for hours.
combining GHB and alcohol is very dangerous.
It's a quick ticket to coma city. It won't neccessarily kill you, but it will put you into deep, coma-like sleep. I used GHB to help me cut down on my booze intake. Unfortunately my source in South Africa, Biogenesis, is no longer manufacturing it. It's currently illegal, but several pharmaceutical companies are planning to release it as a healthier alternative to Xanax and Prozac. You used to be able to buy it cheaply in health food stores. But, the drug companies want a monopoly on substances that enhance your mood. So, a scare campaign was created based on a handful of o.d.s involving GHB and alcohol. There are no known cases of GHB overdoses resulting in death. The only cases of GHB related emergencies have involved people combining it with alcohol, passing out and choking on their vomit. I used GHB for years without any problems. No side effects at all. It lifted my mood and diminished my appetite for booze.
|By _Blackjack on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 03:34 pm: Edit|
Considering the time period, it would not surprise me at all if said powder was just cocaine. Developing a coke habit can certainly cut down on your drinking. It was also used as a cure for opium addiction...
|By Fluid on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 03:28 pm: Edit|
My assumption on the powder is that it is the kind that makes one sick if they then consume. After all, that would "cure" drunkeness...
Back to the poster, anyone else notice that dog? He's being very very bad!!
|By _Blackjack on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 02:18 pm: Edit|
At present, I think the usual ER response to ethanol poisoning is a stomach pump and activiated charcoal. On the other hand, ethanol is used as an antidote for methanol.
|By Don_Walsh on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 01:40 pm: Edit|
Caffeine doesn't counter ethanol. You just end up a wide awake drunk instead of a sleepy one.
I know of substances that make someone violently sick if they take alcohol after administration, but not of anything that zaps someone back to sobreity.
Of course, just because I don't know about it, hardly means it can't exist.
|By Black_Rabbit on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 01:11 pm: Edit|
There is an injectable substance that counteracts ethanol, but as far as I know (which aint far- this is from memory only) it is a relatively recent invention, and has some nasty side effects. This was very likely just a stimulant cocktail- like having a lot of black coffee (that's the only drunkeness 'cure' I've ever seen in many a tome of old forgotten lore.)
Caffiene powder? Some other stimulant, perhaps, based on the coccoa plant?
|By Don_Walsh on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 12:52 pm: Edit|
Ah, a morning-after pill (well, poudre, powder) for absintheurs. I suppose I ought to just appreciate the quaintness but I am struck by the juxtaposition of other threads...
Something to counteract the primary (ethanol) and secondary (allegedly thujone but ? anyway herbal) effects of absinthe?
We are back to the push pull but to counter, we'd need a pull push.
I know of nothing but time (to let the liver detox) that restores sobriety (from alcohol).
The banned GHB might be an antagonist for thujone, but, wasn't available then and is illegal now...anyway why would someone want to?
I can see the powder as a marketing ploy, as a money maker. As an absintheur, and as a matter of personal style, I don't hedge my bets that way.
"Anything worth doing, is worth doing to excess." Personal motto. Words to live by.
|By Artemis on Sunday, February 11, 2001 - 07:24 am: Edit|
My father always used the word "chouette" to mean a Screech Owl, which sort of threw me off, I thought maybe the dog was named "Chouette"; also, I couldn't figure out what the guy's wife had to do with it. The translator's work is never done.
|By Petermarc on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 02:01 pm: Edit|
damn, fluid, you got me by 3 seconds...
|By Petermarc on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 01:59 pm: Edit|
i'ts the eeeevil waiter....'chouette' literally
means 'baby owl' but the french use it like 'cool!
'his wife ignored (forgot)or (doesn't know about)
poudre montavon'...that little dog is typically
parisian...well, actually, the waiter is, too...
i think along with the ban in france, the waiters were also required to give slower or non-existent service...it is a formidable tool in the battle against drunkeness...
|By Fluid on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 01:59 pm: Edit|
Yes, it's the waiter, saying something like, "Goody*!.. His wife ignores Poudre Montavan..."
*"Goody" ain't quite it, but it's as close as I could come right now.
|By Artemis on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 01:42 pm: Edit|
I REALLY like that poster.
Who is speaking the words at the bottom? The waiter? I'm not sure I get it.
|By Germanandy on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 09:27 am: Edit|
|By Oxygenee on Saturday, February 10, 2001 - 08:04 am: Edit|
We've all spoken on the Forum about the effects (secondary and otherwise) of drinking absinthe - but what did absintheurs of the belle epoque take to COUNTERACT the effects of alchohol in general and absinthe in particular? Does anything on the market today work? (in the unlikely event that anyone one the Forum would WANT to counteract these effects)
Here's a recently found cardboard poster for an absinthe era "anti-drunkenness" powder.
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