|By Timk on Wednesday, August 22, 2001 - 02:23 pm: Edit|
This would explain why my Pernod Tarragona Absinthe miniature looks so modern - a bottle collector estimated it at early sixties - i have a picture somewhere
|By Petermarc on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:38 pm: Edit|
we would need a very serious search party, since pernod already seems to be forgotten in tarragona (or maybe, at least, more than a couple of hours of fumbling around)
|By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:26 pm: Edit|
Since Pernod S.A. didn't close down till '65, there ought to be lots of unopened bottles around in Spain. Hmmmm?
|By Oxygenee on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:15 pm: Edit|
If Ted has seen a bottle with a redesigned label dating definitely from 1937, then that certainly helps date the hip-flask bottle more accurately - I've seen one with the older looking label that I'd estimated as dating from the 1940's - clearly I was mistaken.
But Pernod S.A. didn't close in the late 1940's or early 50's - that was just when I, incorrectly as it turns out, assumed that the label design had changed. According to some notes I have from Madame Delahaye (not in her books), Pernod Tarragona only ceased operations in Spain in 1965. She also says incidentally that they continued to use the old formulas, and that the Spanish product remained similar to the French orginal throughout its lifetime. It was certainly bottled at 68% right until the end. Most of the earlier post-Pernod Spanish absinthes of the '70's and 80's (Deva, Philip, Comas etc) copied the Pernod label design, in some cases almost exactly.
In the last years (1950-1965) the label, while broadly still similar to the classic design, was quite modern looking. I'd love to see a photo of Ted's 1937 bottle, to see what the label looked like then.
|By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 07:00 pm: Edit|
Whoops, we are both wrong. This is from the P-R website, q.v.
1932 - Paul Ricard introduces Ricard pastis.
1951 - Pernod 51 is introduced, which becomes Pastis 51
1975 - Ricard and Pernod merge to created Pernod-Ricard
As we have both blotted our copybooks, perhaps someone else should detail the history of the individual companies up to '75 merger.
By the way they also own Jameson's, Dubonnet, Cinzano and as we already know, Cusenier, a la Oxygenee. And Suze gentian liqueur. Among other things.
|By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 06:45 pm: Edit|
Petermarc, as I understand it Pernod was moribund after the ban. It was Paul Ricard (race driver and promoter, if not quite inventor, of pastis), who made money in the 203 and 30s and bought out Pernod, creating the P-R monolith. He wanted the name, you see. So I think Ricard bought Pernod prior to WWII, or just after, and it was as Pernod-Ricard that modern Pernod pastis was launched in '46. Universally ackowledged to be inferior to Ricard's flasgship product bearing his name.
So, Pernod didn't by Ricard, it was the other way round, and a lot earlier than the 1990s.
If I am wrong I'll be happy to stand corrected.
|By Petermarc on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 05:00 pm: Edit|
pernod didn't buy ricard until about 5-7 years ago, i believe...
|By Simonsuisse on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 03:13 pm: Edit|
I love this!! This whole saga of pernod moving to spain and carying on after the ban in France has always pondered my mind. You have just answered a few key points in my quest! I THANK YOU ALL!!!
|By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 03:08 pm: Edit|
Correction to my last, Oxy says the Tarragona Pernod production didn't close out till early 50s, so the question I asked is a nonstarter. Spanish made Pernod absinthe and French made Pernod pastis overlapped in time for 5-8 years, maybe.
|By Tabreaux on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 02:50 pm: Edit|
Worthy of note is I have seen a Pernod Tarragona bottle dated something like 1937 and the graphics are different. This being the case, the bottles that sport the old labels are certainly older.
|By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 02:15 pm: Edit|
According to a post in another thread (about the hip flask type bottle) Pernod was still producing absinthe in Spain in the 40s, well after the civil war, and well into WWII.
Since Pernod Ricard started producing modern Pernod pastis in '46, just after WWII, then it seems likely that P-R bought the Spanish company some time earlier (I dunno as I do not have the Conrad book, or the delaHaye, this is Bangkok!!) so I assume that the discontinuance of one and the emergence of the other within say a 1 to 3 year period 1944-46 was not a coincidence.
I wonder if P-R owns or owned any of the other Spanish absenta labels or distilleries postwar?
Seems likely. It's known that they have shell companies in Spain and Andorra now.
|By Petermarc on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 01:09 pm: Edit|
|By Luger on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 11:46 am: Edit|
Or the civil war.
|By Tabreaux on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 10:25 am: Edit|
Pernod started production in the Tarragona facility in 1918. My analyses indicate that the Pontarlier and the earliest Tarragona products were virtually identical. I suspect that for reasons of absinthe not being very popular in Spain, and it being illegal in much of Europe where it had previously been popular, would make it a difficult product to sell,
|By Zman7 on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 09:30 am: Edit|
I think it may have been answered in a thread along time ago, but I will risk the wrath. Does anyone know why Pernod stopped its Tarragona production?
|By Chevalier on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 09:21 am: Edit|
Did Tarragona Pernod manage (or even attempt) to maintain the high standards of Pontarlier Pernod?
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