|By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 07:04 am: Edit|
I suppose that most young 'rebels' not only in Japan but everywhere conform to the accepted dress code of how a person should dress and look within the particular group they identify themselves with. Not at all different from conforming to wear a suit and tie, just a different dress code but no less conformist
|By Geoffk on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 06:22 am: Edit|
That's a good summary--everybody is a "rebel" until they marry and/or start work, at which point, they pretty much have to conform. Nowadays a few people rebel against that, but they do so in typically Japanese ways. Either they don't take a proper job and just have a string of crummy temp jobs (a "freeter") or they continue to live with their parents and do nothing. Some even shut themselves up in their rooms and refuse to go out at all. People who have good jobs and normal lives, but are still nonconforming rebels, are pretty unusual.
One other thing I notice is that no matter how wild the "rebels" get, they seem to all get wild in similar ways. It's a rebellion, but you're definitely part of a crowd anyway.
Fuji is a very easy climb, but you can only climb during the summer (June to early September.) Even then, it gets pretty cold at the top (you're 3776 meters up). Outside of that time, there are no places to rest or buy food or drinks and freak storms can kill you if you try anyway. That's too bad, because otherwise summer isn't the best time to visit Japan. It's unbearably hot in most of the country--especially Tokyo. The best time to come (besides Fuji) is early April or October.
-- Geoff K.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 04:30 am: Edit|
The Japanese obsession with comformity is very interesting and very weird.
What I do notice about a lot of young (i.e. under 25) Japanese tourists around central London is that these youngsters are the most wierdly dressed people around. Strange, sort of baggy clothes, coloured and strangely styled hair, AND very odd looking beards (at least with regard to the males). Their aim seems to be (and it works) to draw a lot of attention to themselves. I sort of thought that Japan would be full of these wierdos. It must be a nation made up of ultra-conformists and a small minority (who are young enough not to have to settle down and earn a living) who rebel against it for a few short years before they become ultra-conformists themselves.
Some day when I get a few pounds together (although being a teacher in a state school I'm not exactly flush with cash) I think I'll visit Japan. I'd love to see Mount Fuji and walk up it (well part of the way anyway). It looks like an easy mountain.
|By Geoffk on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 07:59 pm: Edit|
You know, I thought about this a little more and it occurred to me that there are a few places where you see a LOT of Japanese with beards: Jazz musicians, artists, sometimes writers...
The Japanese are the most image/uniform concious people I know. They always wear golf clothes for golf, ski outfits to ski, work coveralls to work on their car etc. Everything has a proper set of equipment and an image.
I think that the Japanese don't mind beards per se., but they've decided that most (Western) businessmen don't have them, therefore the proper "image" for a businessman is suit and no beard. A 100 years ago when the Western image was a beard and top hat, that's what they wore then. For a Jazz musician a beard ot goatee is still part of the image, so it's ok there.
This doesn't speak highly of their originality, but I think it' a pretty accurate picture.
-- Geoff K.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 12:05 pm: Edit|
I've no problem with uniforms or a suit (for 10 years I wore a suit before I took up teaching, now I only wear suits and ties at weddings or funerals) but a no beard rule is an attack on a man's very being. Whatever, if you're happy with it then it's none of my business anyway.
McDonalds I believe (at least in the UK) also have a 'no beard' policy for all their employees (if they have the same policy in Oregon then poor old staticburst, but then I suppose he probably couldn't even grow any facial hair anyway).
|By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:55 am: Edit|
Disney has relaxed this very recently--but you're right, there was a hair code, too. I believe they allow goatees now, and I know shaved heads have been recently approved (I have a balding buddy who works for the Mouse and he shaves his head, which he couldn't do until a few mos. ago).
|By Anatomist1 on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 07:29 am: Edit|
Disney still does this: no facial hair, and regular hygiene inspections including finger nail length. They may have a hair style code too. It may be worse at their "fun" parks. This is just what I head from a guy that worked at one of their mall stores.
|By Geoffk on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 07:23 am: Edit|
I'm a pretty hairy guy. Trust me--at 20 I looked like a mountain man. I don't consider myself to be a clone--in fact in my company anyone who's not Japanese stands out pretty strongly. On the other hand, some jobs have a uniform. Policeman, fireman, soldier. The unform for my job happens to be a suit.
C'est la vie.
-- Geoff K.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 06:46 am: Edit|
Fair enough Geoff. But there's no way I could ever work in Japan. I'm generally fairly conventional in appearance but there's no way I'd let an employer turn me into a clone.
(Now that you're 40 you'd probably find you'd grow a much better beard than in your early 20's.)
|By Geoffk on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 05:00 am: Edit|
Beards are very unusual in Japan. As a foreigner, I could probably get away with one, but I think a Japanese would be asked to shave it off, especially if he was meeting customers, as I sometimes do. Companies expect you to wear a suit and tie, cut your hair conservatively and, clean shaven is definitely the norm. However, I work in a large Japanese company. In a smaller company, a foreign one or part time, you might get away with more.
This was historically true in the US. Some may remember when IBM required all their male employees to only wear a white or solid blue oxford shirt. Japan is a little behind the US in this sense. Of course, out of work, you can get wild. For example, some Japanese men bleach their hear blonde and them dye it black again from Monday through Friday (going blonde on the weekend).
Fortunately for me I grew my beard back in college, so I got it out of my system. I also experimented with mustaches, goatees and mutton chops (victorian style) before deciding they all looked stupid on me. I would never grow it back at this point anyway because my head hair is mostly black, but my beard is mostly grey.
-- Geoff K.
|By Heiko on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 04:26 am: Edit|
Just reminds me of a friend whose father offered him around 100$ for his Black Sabbath T-Shirt (not to wear it himself, of course - he tries to be a christian role-model, just his family sometimes don't play along...)
|By _Blackjack on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 03:57 am: Edit|
You see that folks! First they take away your guns, then they take away your beards, then they take away the genitals on your porn...
|By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 12:18 am: Edit|
Some company offered to pay Ichiro a million bucks to shave off his beard.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 12:14 am: Edit|
"I shave off my beard every year or so, just to remind myself that, no, I still don't have a chin... "
Well then Blackjack don't move to Japan (the land of clean-shaven techies) where your employer will forcibly compel you to be reminded of this fact every single day of your life.
|By _Blackjack on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 05:09 pm: Edit|
I shave off my beard every year or so, just to remind myself that, no, I still don't have a chin...
|By Verawench on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 11:22 am: Edit|
Strap ons are the bandaid for phallic envy. Mine is cured.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 11:19 am: Edit|
Do you really have to shave for the sake of your profession? Is there an anti-beard clause in your contract? Grow a beard. Every man should grow a beard at least once in his lifetime to see his face as nature intended it. Every 6 months or so I decide to change the look of my face and grow a different shaped beard. Then I get bored with it and shave if off (I'm currently in my clean-shaven mode). If a techie can be sacked in Japan for growing a beard then Japan really does stink.
Do you really shower for the sake of your profession? If you were unemployed would you go around stinking of body odour? I doubt it. You wouldn't have too many of your fellow men (and women) wanting to go near you if you didn't shower. Like most of us I suspect you shower out of a sense of personal hygiene and self respect.
|By Artemis on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:55 am: Edit|
"The Shrike´s favourite toy of torture was called "tree of pain", a metallic tree with huge stings on which its victims were impaled."
Shrikes are real. They're birds, gray and black and white. They look sort of like mockingbirds, but not as big. In Louisiana, they catch lizards and impale them on the long thorns of the locust tree, or sometimes on a barbed-wire fence, but it's not torture, just lizard storage for later meals.
|By Wolfgang on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 07:10 am: Edit|
I read Neuromancer many years ago. Gibson is a visionary.
|By Bob_Chong on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 05:05 am: Edit|
It's not some phallic envy.
It's always penis envy. Get over it or fess up, but remaining in denial will do you no good.
|By Mr_Rabbit on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 02:07 am: Edit|
Tattoos and body modification have never been, for me at least, about a purely visual esthetic.
They are power over your own flesh, over yourself (which IMHO explains the rush you get from getting one the next day when you see it) and an acknowledgement of mortality.
It will look bad in 50 years? And the rest of you will be beautiful? Please! It is an acknowledgement, and in a sense a taking power over, the doom that hangs over us all. Your body, you, are your own. That at least is what they mean to me.
Japanese tattoos originally started with the firefighters, who lived dangerous and very heroic lives in cities built of paper and wood. It is a terrible, crying shame they have been made the province of the yakuza. In the 1800's, the sons of kings would travel to Japan to get a tattoo. And the Japanese themselves, who's tattoos were so technically superior to all others, revile them.
Which reminds me- I watched Grease last night, and couldn't help but think it must have been a large contributor to the strange, crazy and not-quite-getting-it Japanese emulation of western culture.
Yeah, I know it started much sooner (I would give my best friend's left testicle for a 19th century Japanese naval sabre, half Katana with a finger guard.) Mmmm... NS 70%. Like a lover who doesn't like you, it caresses the brain while slapping it around a bit too.
|By Mr_Rabbit on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 01:57 am: Edit|
"In a similar vein, there is Jewel, who also has an incredible voice, but whose lyrics sound like a 15-year-old girl's diary. Her second album almost put me in a diabetic coma."
There is a book of satiric poetry (damned if I can remember the name, NS has me a bit droonk, but damned anyway so that's all right) based on Jewel.
Look for it. It is the most funniest of things.
Vera (and others) on your body modification thing-dear god yes. My shopping list is long, but right now I am trying to decide whether or not to get lasic surgery for my eyes. There are some fellows who estimate ten years for their project of making human vision about twice as acute. Do I wait, blurry eyed from my CRT, or do I get second best now?
|By Aion on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 12:04 am: Edit|
"Sometimes I wish I could make long sharp objects protrude outward from my flesh."
that reminds me on a figure in Dan Simmons "Hyperion" and "Endymion" sciFi books,
called "Shrike", a creature that was sent back in time by artificial-intelligence cyber-beings to
torture and exterminate mankind. This Shrike was described as metallic figure covered with thorns
allover the body. The Shrike´s favourite toy of torture was called "tree of pain", a metallic tree
with huge stings on which its victims were impaled.
But they were not killed, but they were donated with eternal life - and eternal pain.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:39 pm: Edit|
You don't appreciate me anymore?!?!?!
|By Verawench on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:26 pm: Edit|
Bored or drunk, Head? Or both?
Sometimes I wish I could make long sharp objects protrude outward from my flesh. It's not some phallic envy. It's misanthropy.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:02 pm: Edit|
A POEM by HEAD_PROSTHESIS
I like Minka,
Minka likes me...
Sitting here twiddlin'
happy as can be
She got big titties
I got allot of wine
I can play the solo
on my man meat vine
I like Minka,
Minka likes me...
I want to have her over
So I can talk to her for free
|By Head_Prosthesis on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 09:53 pm: Edit|
|By Aion on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 09:09 pm: Edit|
"Imagine being able to transform a human being into a creature from a Giger painting... "
or what about the cute creatures from Clive Barkers "Hellraiser"??
"*Improved eyes + *Cerebral interface with extra memory cards and direct internet access "
could it be you read William Gibson´s "Neuromancer" recently??
|By Verawench on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 06:58 pm: Edit|
Blackjack and Wolfgang,
Amen. Instant hair dye technology for me too, please. Burgundy red or blue-black. Mmmm...
Imagine being able to transform a human being into a creature from a Giger painting...
|By Geoffk on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 06:50 pm: Edit|
Ah, but Porn, like absinthe is a true international language. An American, a Japanese and a European, speaking different languages and from different cultures, can still marvel at the same videos and JPGs, differences be damned. The UN is truly missing an opportunity here.
And you can get plenty of unpixellated Japanese smut out on the net, although it is difficult to find here at home. A pity, because otherwise, the photography and printing here is excellent, and the ladies are unmatched.
I shouldn't have underestimated your knowledge or the extent of your private colletion Head. My apologies.
-- Geoff K.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 04:10 pm: Edit|
"By the way Head, that's eurotrash porn star Lolo Ferrari."
I know who she is.
"eurotrash porn star"? Is there an upper class of porn? Oh Please, they're in porn!!!
I don't DO anal scenes.
Fine we'll get an ass double in here to edit in the anal scenes, but when he comes, it's going on YOUR face, kapeesh?
Excuse me G., with all due respect, you be the expert of Absinthe in Japan and I'll take care of the rest of the world of Porn. I'll concede to you the world of Japanese Porn because I'm tired of watching pixelated groins and cumshots, simulated rape, insinuated pedophilia and scatological docudramas.
Is "Cream Lemon" still in production?
|By Wolfgang on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 03:44 pm: Edit|
You`r right, one of my friend had to use a pair of pliers to cut a silver ring out of his friend`s infected belly... That doesn`t mean it`s impossible to do but someone have to be very carefull.
|By _Blackjack on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 03:15 pm: Edit|
Navel piering have a bad habit of getting infected (they are close to the E. coli farm that is everyone's crotch) and there is a lot of friction and skin growth down there, so they eventually migrate out. I know a lot of piercers who won't even do them. The are trendy and easy to hide, so a lot of girls get them on a whim without knowing what they are getting into, and end up with a red, pusy hole in their bellies for months.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 01:33 pm: Edit|
In summary my ideal woman is Indian, without plastic surgery, has a pierced nose (with subtle gem stud), a pierced belly button, a small temporary tatoo on shoulder blade (preferably left shoulder blade) with unshaven (but trimmed) armpits.
If anyone fits this bill then get in touch.
(Oh and preferably size 8-12 (UK sizes) and aged between 26-46)
|By Lordhobgoblin on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 01:28 pm: Edit|
I'm not saying there's anything 'wrong' with cosmetic plastic surgery but I just find it a bit sad that people ,who look perfectly normal, dislike their bodies so much that they spend a lot of money to alter them. I also would rather have a normal woman, with 2 tits of different sizes (as most women do) than a woman with 'perfect' silicon tits pointing straight at me. Neither do I go for this 'perfect' nose crap. Give me a natural woman ('imperfections' and all) over someone whose features are the man-made work of a surgeon, and tend to be based on media views of the 'perfect' woman. If a woman is happy with her natural body she's far more likely to be well-balanced, relaxed and free from hang-ups than someone who loathes her body so much she has to pay to have it altered.
Cosmetic plastic surgery is just another symptom of the self-hate that seems to exist in Western society.
Body piercings on the other hand. I find a pierced belly-button very sexy indeed and a pierced nose (with a subtle small gemed stud) also very attractive (Indian women are masters at the art of subtle feminine sexy nose studs, but then I have a thing about Indian women).
Tatoos on women can also look very attractive if they're small and tasteful, particularly on the shoulder blade (personally I don't like celtic bands etc on arms). I do sometimes think however that tatoos will look a bit gruesome when the woman reaches 50 (blatantly ageist of me, I know) so temporary tatoos are probably the best thing for women.
I'm also with Marc on women with hairy armpits, so long as they trim the hairs a bit and don't have long scraggly beards dangling from under their arms.
|By Melinelly on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 09:46 am: Edit|
i'm with you there bj. did grey and electric blue streaks all throughout a couple months ago, permanent... but it's growing out too damn fast =)
|By _Blackjack on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 09:21 am: Edit|
Oh, and I would LOVE to have some sort of technology which would provide for instant hair (or even skin) color changes at will. Hell, at this point I'd settle for a good, permanent electric blue dye...
|By _Blackjack on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 09:20 am: Edit|
I was just thnking, I don't think I've ever met anyone who expressed a desire for conventional cosmetic surgery who wasn't already a very attractive women, but who had a very low opinion of herself. They were usually nit-picking some flaw so minor that no-one would notice it even if it was pointed out, or sometimes they wanted to "fix" the very features which made them so striking. And honestly, I don't think the surgery would have made them feel any better about themselves or their appearance, any more than an anorexic is ever satisfied with her weight.
I make no claim that my experiece is universal, tho. There may well be tons of perfectly confident people who just want to tweak a few things the way they would get their hair styled.
Have you ever seen plastic surgery performed? I really think it may be the most brutal LOOKING surgery going. I mean, you can sort of seperate yourself, emotionally, from an open chest or knee-joint, but when you see someone reaching down under the skin and ripping somebody's FACE off, it seems way too personal...
Feh. I certainly don't think I can judge what anybody wants to do with their own body (except on an asthetic level...Helen Gurley Brown gives me the willies), but it seems to me that the cost/pain-to-benefits ratio is kind of low. I mean, for the price of a new pair of boobies, you can buy yourself a snazzy old convertible, which is a lot more likely to get MY attention than an extra cup size.
Incidentally, I am concentrating on women here because a) appearance issues have much more of a detrimental effect on women in general in our society and b) I don't give a shit what men look like, since I'm not looking at them.
|By Wolfgang on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 08:14 am: Edit|
It seems we'r waiting for the same thing...
Here's my shopping list :
*Improved eyes (with camera/night vision/color change/light emiting/integrated computer screen...)
*Embeded cell phone and computer.
*Cerebral interface with extra memory cards and direct internet access through skull antenna via satellite.
*light emiting/color changing tatoos and hair implant.
Until then, I wont make any modification to my body... I'm waiting for the real stuff...
|By Heiko on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 06:44 am: Edit|
Tatoos must be good ones of course - a skull or a heart with your girlfriend's name are about the stupidest things you can wear on your body...
I think a celtic tatoo in the style of the one seen in 'from dusk till dawn' is great.
Piercings are, well, mostly not necessary. I see that more and more young girls have piercings through their lips and/or eybrows - it seems to me like they want to show "see, I'm a bad girl". They could show otherwise...I'm already bored with all that metal stuff in people's faces.
|By _Blackjack on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 03:42 am: Edit|
I have never seen anyone in person whose looks (IMO) were improved by all that shit.
|By Aion on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 12:00 am: Edit|
I think cosmetic surgery and, what I would call
body styling (tattoos,piercings) are two very different things.
Bodystyling is used to express individuality,
cosmetic surgery is to create uniformity.
But what about bodystyling surgery. Implanting
nice vampire fangs, or what about some devlish horns, what about an elephant´s trunk in the face, or looking like a Star Trek Borg.
It´s freak time!
IMO there are better things to invest time and money.
|By Geoffk on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 11:23 pm: Edit|
All I can say is that's a very personal preference. I agree that most Western tatoos are pretty crappy, but I've seen some Japanese tatoos for men (and especially for ladies) which were erotic, artistic and beautiful. They're also really deep and hurt like hell to get, I'm told.
Unfortunately, tatoos are associated with gangsters (and whores) here, so are also considered lowerclass. Some public baths won't admit anyone with a tatoo.
As for piercing, most women have pierced ears. I generally don't like the way piercing looks, but if I took a girl home and found a ring or bar in an unexpected place (use your imagination) I think it would be terribly sexy (and prehaps enjoyable for them too).
Judge not and ye shall not be judged...
-- Geoff K.
|By Bob_Chong on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 11:10 pm: Edit|
Piercings and tattoos look like shit. Tats are low class and trashy. That tattoo on your arm of the skull with a knife though it's head? Yeah, that looks fucking stupid and will only look dumber as the days go by. It's a permanent billboard, a monument to...who really cares.
I have never seen anyone in person whose looks (IMO) were improved by all that shit. But some people have a "look at me" complex. So be it.
|By Heiko on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 10:57 pm: Edit|
"Because conventional beauty is dull and convention was never beautiful"
I don't think natural beauty is "conventional" - everybody looks different, there's no convention about that. Artificial beauty is what is dull. Everybody wants to look the same, even if it doesn't fit their type. One example: I think (I'm not totally sure) that Julia Roberts had her lips pumped up a little with silicone. They just seem too big for her face - she'd be much cuter if her lips were slim, it would fit her type much better.
I know you were talking about other artificial improvements like piercings and tatoos - that's ok. I just wanted to object when you say natural beauty is dull. Maybe I got you wrong and you didn't mean "natural" when you said "conventional"?
|By Geoffk on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 09:54 pm: Edit|
For the sake of my profession, pleasing others and to enhance my self-esteem, I shave and shower every morning. Now that's not a permanent change, but if I could make it permanent (i.e. I never have to shave again or I'm always clean), I'd probably do it, because it's a good thing for me. Maybe some women feel that way about makeup.
When strippers go on American talk shows (Jerry Springer etc.), somebody always says "You must hate yourself. How could you do that to your body?" They usually say, "I like the way I look, LOTS of men love the way I look and I make tons of money just for letting people see me. I'm happy."
If people are happy with what they've done then it's great for them. We shouldn't say "plastic surgery is always bad" or "plastic surgery has to be a freaky artistic statement". If they're not happy with it, then that's a seperate issue, and not a reason for criticizing plastic surgery itself.
By the way Head, that's eurotrash porn star Lolo Ferrari. She probably had the biggest, roundest, fakest pair in Europe. She also had her lips pumped up and was generally quite the tramp. Unfortunately, she died young last year, for mysterious reasons.
-- Geoff K.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 09:37 pm: Edit|
|By Verawench on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 09:31 pm: Edit|
Was I talking about silicone tits? Once again, look up "Orlan". Let's not diss plastic - or more precisely, cosmetic - surgery because bimbos and people with low self-esteem use it to enhance their looks and sex appeal. That is a watered down and in-your-face version of what plastic surgery can accomplish in the art of self-modification.
I think plastic surgery should be advanced further in the direction of body art, such as tattoos, scarification and piercings. Elongated fingers. Pointed ears. Pot bellies. Cleft Chins. Pointed tongues, absurdely wide eyes. Why? Because conventional beauty is dull and convention was never beautiful.
Those fake tits are pitiful not because they are unnatural - that I admire and that I am fascinated by. They are pitiful because they are IN MOST CASES not added on to further the cause of self-modling. They are added on for the sake of a profession or for the sake of pleasing another or for a false sense of confidence.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 08:31 pm: Edit|
She's got it all, artificially
Too bad she's not with us any longer
|By Heiko on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 08:24 pm: Edit|
"Fake tits always look fake and shitty"
Absolutely right! I can't understand that whole big tits psychosis. Big tits for me are a total turn off (sometimes even if they're real). Reminds me of some big ol' mama or a milk-cow.
If they're real, it's ok - but fake ones usually don't fit to the rest of the body. I could puke when I see a pretty, slim, young girl with some monstrous silicone balls attached to her breast.
Girls, don't do it! Get new noses or whatever but stop the silicone-breast madness!!!!
|By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 07:54 pm: Edit|
Here Here, G.
All asses tight and beautiful,
all titties big and small,
I like to fondle each of them,
the Surgeon General of Beverly Hills made them all...
|By Geoffk on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 07:51 pm: Edit|
Hey, different strokes...
I LIKE silicone tits--the bigger and faker the better. There's a stripper called Chelsea Charms who has siliconed boobs that are literally twice the size of her head. I wouldn't want that done to myself if I were a women--heck, I'm not even sure I'd want my wife to go THAT big, but as a fantasy thing I think it's a real turn-on. Without surgery, you'd never see a women built like that in a thousand years.
Even smaller silicone boobs are really nice. If a girl has firm round boobs that are a little hard--but naturally--I'm sure you'd love them. So whats wrong if they got that way through surgery?
Some people do go overboard on the surgery though. Micheal Jackson is obviously Exhibit A. here.
-- Geoff K.
|By Bob_Chong on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 06:59 pm: Edit|
What's so wrong with plastic surgery?
Nothing is better than the real thing. Fake tits always look fake and shitty. I'd rather look at a real a-cup or b-cup ANY day before I'd even glance at those bulbous, silicone monstrosities.
Fake noses always look fake...etc.
|By Frater_Carfax on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 05:54 pm: Edit|
"I still want to know what's so wrong with plastic surgery. "
I think there is inherently nothing wrong with it....but at its excesses...two words....
|By Frater_Carfax on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 05:51 pm: Edit|
"But, Stevie Nicks is still the mother of all the goddess rockers"
Marc, I agree to a larger extent, but I will always hold a space in my heart for Deborah Harry........how soon they forget....sigh...
|By Admin on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 04:02 pm: Edit|
Hmmm, I think its just symbolic for the uberfake, image concious to the point of insanity type mentality.
Nothing inherently wrong with it though. Go stay in LA for a while, and you'll hate the *idea* of it too.
But I think it is more what it stands for, and the stupid ass reasons most people get it, that gives it a bad name amongst the rest of us happy-to-be ugly people.
|By Verawench on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 03:45 pm: Edit|
I still want to know what's so wrong with plastic surgery.
|By Admin on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 02:19 pm: Edit|
one only need spend a weekend in LA to view the long term horrors of plastic surgery.
somewhat recently I spent a few days down there, and kept meeting the sweetest li'l ole ladies that looked like space aliens.
Hob, I'm with you on the Madonna issue. Tho I am not woo'd by spectacle.
The only thing I ever liked was the Like A Prayer video, which was inspired. The music, on the other hand, was not, so I pay it no compliment.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 02:14 pm: Edit|
So Madonna has never had plastic surgery!!!
Well then she's got a bloody good natural body and I'll give her credit for that. I hate cosmetic plastic surgery on women.
|By Lordhobgoblin on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 02:08 pm: Edit|
As ever you're missing the point. Madonna is stinking rich because people pay to buy her music. She's a media whore (at least other media whore's like Paul McCartney could sing and write music).
I'm not interested in her ability to manipulate the press and con people into thinking she's a musician and unlike yourself I'm not in the least interested in her bowel movements. I no more admire artists who manipulate the media to an obscene extent than I do politicians who manipulate the media to this extent. Both are empty, cynical pretenders.
As a musician she's mediocre and if people are fool enough to spend their money on mediocre music because of media spin then they're fools. Then again perhaps you admire mediocre artists who make a bundle out of conning folk into buying their art?
|By Bob_Chong on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 11:59 am: Edit|
"Sun Ra may have looked cool, but his music was unapproachable."
I disagree. I like a lot of that way-out-there, let-your-mind-wander shit. Granted, I own only a half dozen of Sun Ra's albums, but they are all very enjoyable. His sax player is great.
My father in law was a professional musician his entire life (symphony orchestra). He hates jazz. Doesn't get it, doesn't like the improv. Oddly, though, he now plays in a bluegrass band and loves to improv on the mandolin. Totally different stuff, I suppose.
|By Heiko on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 10:33 am: Edit|
I've seen Nelly Furtado at the festival last month. I had never heard of her before, a friend convinced me that it was worth seeing her - and it really was!
|By _Blackjack on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 09:49 am: Edit|
Fiona, when you consider her age, is awe-inspiring.
|By _Blackjack on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 09:40 am: Edit|
At what point does an artist start to disappear up their own asshole? Answer: when they are convinced their shit don't stink.
|By _Blackjack on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 09:31 am: Edit|
In 10 years, Britany will probably be closer to Debby Gibson or other "teen girl" idols ofthe 80's.
|By _Blackjack on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 09:24 am: Edit|
If I had the money I'd put myself under the knife, not to become a bloody barbie, but whatever the hell I wanted to.
|By Admin on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 08:59 am: Edit|
Hillary & Madonna are cut from the same mold. But it is easier to dislike someone's politics than their musical styles.
I don't like mean power bitches on either side of the fence.
Madonna has more in common with Bill Gates than any politician though.
|By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 07:59 am: Edit|
I just started up on Cat Power. Nice, but it didn't stay in my CD rotation for very long the first time around. I heard she sometimes breaks down in the middle of performing, curls up into the fetal position on stage, and the show's over - now, that's what I call nuts. I was referred by reading about Ambrosia Parsley from SHIVAREE - I really like that band. Similar to GARBAGE, except instead of just knob-twiddling and hip posturing, they actually have interesting songs with real lyrics.
|By Aion on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:36 am: Edit|
The "Covers Record" is great, especially her
version of (I can´t get no) Satisfaction.
Marc, you should check out Heather Nova´s
CD´s "Blow" and "Oyster", great stuff!
|By Marc on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:24 am: Edit|
Fiona, when you consider her age, is awe-inspiring. I'm not familiar with Heather Nova.
How about Cat Power?
|By Aion on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:20 am: Edit|
What about the music of Heather Nova
and Fiona Apple? Love both, though Fiona
seems to be totally insane.
|By Marc on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:16 am: Edit|
In other words, there are some musicians who, in their attempt to be innovative, seal themselves off from their audience. I think Radiohead, with their last two albums, is guilty of this. Jazz musicians are the worst offenders. Sun Ra may have looked cool, but his music was unapproachable. The ultimate "fuck you" musical statement was made by Lou Reed with METAL MACHINE MUSIC. Closely followed by whoever sang that song
|By Marc on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:10 am: Edit|
The new Bjork album has lovely moments.
But, I find her quirkiness somewhat contrived,
too self-conscious, weird for weird's sake.
At what point does an artist start to disappear up their own asshole? Answer: when they are convinced their shit don't stink.
|By Thegreenimp on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:09 am: Edit|
Kate is too busy bouncing baby Bertie on her knee.
She may be back someday
|By Thegreenimp on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:07 am: Edit|
Fascinating pair, who else would write a song about Houdini (Kate) or Mabel Normand (Stevie)
|By Aion on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:06 am: Edit|
For me Kate Bush is THE BEST female pop musician
ever, even far beyond Björk and Tori Amos.
But it looks like she has retired.
|By Marc on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 01:02 am: Edit|
Kate Bush, while relatively unknown to the masses, paved the way for Bjork, Tori Amos and
But, Stevie Nicks is still the mother of all the goddess rockers.
|By Thegreenimp on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 12:53 am: Edit|
Madonna's stage show wouldn't have existed if not for Kate Bush's Tour of Life in 1979, everything from the headset mike to the dance and stage numbers Kate did first......she was only 20 at the time....Marc is right, the Stars have grown smaller these last few years.
though I think that Kate Bush's writing and singing will likely stand the test of time.
|By Geoffk on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 12:37 am: Edit|
Yea, if she's lucky...
I'm not a big Mariah C. fan, but she clearly has more singing skills than Britany, whose biggest talents are all wrapped in spandex.
In 10 years, Britany will probably be closer to Debby Gibson or other "teen girl" idols ofthe 80's.
-- Geoff K.
|By Aion on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 12:28 am: Edit|
Take a look at Mariah C. today, and you´ll have
a perfect outlook what Britney will be in 10 (5)
|By Marc on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 12:23 am: Edit|
When Britney is a distant memory, I hope that Patti Smith, pj harvey and Marianne Faithful will be remembered. But, I doubt it.
|By Aion on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 12:06 am: Edit|
Totally agreed, these are all really superstars!
It would be funny to know, how many of the top-selling-"stars" today will be forgotten in
25 / 10 / 5 / 2 years or earlier.
More that ever before, I guess (and hope).
|By Marc on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 11:56 pm: Edit|
you're right. I was thinking that as I composed my list. Madonna is in a class all her own.
But, at one time, there many superstars:
Sinatra, Streisand, The Beatles, The Stones,
Elvis, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley...
the stars have grown smaller.
|By Aion on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 11:51 pm: Edit|
Ask a fifteen year old teen girl if she knows
Neil Young (and maybe Springsteen + Dylan as well). The answer will be "NO"
Ask a 50 year old working class man if he
knows Prince. The answer will be "NO".
Ask a 75 year old grandma if she knows U2.
The answer will be "NO".
95 of 100 people (age 30 - 40) I know do not
know Radiohead or Portishead or DCD or ...!!!!
Everyone of these will answer "YES" if asked
about Madonna. That´s what I meant with the term "Superstar".
|By Marc on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 11:27 pm: Edit|
Superstars that have maintained their integrity and chops:
Prince, U2, Tina Turner, Neil Young, Dylan,
|By Aion on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 11:20 pm: Edit|
Who else in today´s pop music could be called
"superstar", if not Madonna?
M. Jackson? Backstreet Boys?? Britney S.??? Brrrr!!!
And Kylie M. today (not in the 80´s) is better than Britney will ever be! Because she isn´t taking the whole business serious any more. She is a parody of herself.
Ever heard of a german Dark wave band called
"Impressions of Winter"? Really nice DCD-style
|By Verawench on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 09:54 pm: Edit|
Screw if she's a terrible, mediocre, whatever kind of singer. She knows what well of pop culture to tap into when and she always strikes gold. She's a consumate and creative businesswoman.
And what's so awful about plastic surgery, even if she ever had any? It's a modern, breathing art form, to be advanced and perfected. If I had the money I'd put myself under the knife, not to become a bloody barbie, but whatever the hell I wanted to. Read about Orlan.
|By Marc on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 09:52 pm: Edit|
Madonna's body is the result of yoga and working out, not plastic surgery.
Madonna is in show business. So, she puts on a show. And a pretty damned good one.
Early tonight,I was comparing Madonna's show to another great show I saw recently: Nick Cave. They both are theatrical performers. Both are preachers. Different theologies, same fire and brimstone.
|By _Blackjack on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 09:25 pm: Edit|
Madonna is a mediocre singer but is second only to Ronald Reagan as the greatest mage of the last 30 years...
I thought she was cuter back in the 80's when she had a little belly, tho. She looks kinda stringy now.
And Nick Cave thinks Kylie is OK, so that's good enough for me.
|By Anatomist1 on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 08:18 pm: Edit|
You're as obtuse as ever. Madonna has crapped bigger than you and not even stained her undergarments. She's admirable because she has imagination, what I call doggedness, and an uncanny understanding of how to manipulate her own fame. I have little admiration for her music as music, but her media and business savvy are awe-inspiring.
|By Geoffk on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:14 pm: Edit|
Her only real US hit was "I should be so Lucky", back in 1988. "I should be so lucky/lucky lucky,lucky/I should be so lucky in love..."
She's still hugely popular in the UK and Australia though (much less so in Japan, where she isn't well known).
She has a whole web ring and lots o fan sites. You can look at http://www.kylie.co.uk to start.
-- Geoff K.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 07:12 pm: Edit|
I know who she is, Silly!
|By Frater_Carfax on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 06:58 pm: Edit|
Why Head, Kylie is Australia's very own singing budgie...
|By Head_Prosthesis on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 05:01 pm: Edit|
|By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 01:21 pm: Edit|
I can't see what all the fuss is about Madonna anyway. She's just a jumped up little disco dancer who can't sing and who's built her body via expensive plastic surgery. All kitsch and hype. I'd put her in the same bracket as Kylie Minogue.
|By Frater_Carfax on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 04:55 pm: Edit|
The place in Scotland is Boleskine House.
I still find it amusingly ironic that Mussolini expelled Crowley from Italy
|By Artemis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 01:41 pm: Edit|
The site for the next absinthe gathering?
I read that Kenneth Anger was outbid by Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin on a regular basis for Crowley items that came up for sale, including, if memory serves me correctly, Crowley's house in Scotland.
Page owned that house for a long time, but he sold it eventually. It was said even by Crowley to be haunted. Apparently today it's occupied by perfectly "normal" people who pretty much are fed up with all the attention it draws.
|By Marc on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:59 pm: Edit|
Man, that joint looks spooky.
|By Artemis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:46 pm: Edit|
Okay, I found it. It was the Winter of 1989.
However, it was a child's swing or crib, not a stroller, and apparently even then, some fragments of Uncle Al's art remained:
|By Artemis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:31 pm: Edit|
Those paintings on the walls of Crowley's house in Cefalu were long ago painted over. Some of them were uncovered and restored by Kenneth Anger around 1955. He also uncovered Crowley's ritual circle and symbols painted on the floor.
Somewhere on the Internet are some photos and a story posted by a guy who went to Cefalu fairly recently, wanting to find that house. It indeed still stands, but whereas it was once remote, there is now a highway running against one wall, and the paintings have long been covered up again or destroyed. In one of the photos, a child's stroller can be seen inside through a window. Wonder what kind of dreams that child has?
Somewhere on the wall, under the paint, Crowley's paintings of demons, homosexual activity, and the lines:
Stab thy demoniac smile to my brain,
Soak me in cognac, cunt and cocaine ...
|By Chrysippvs on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 09:25 am: Edit|
this may intersted you Artemis..I have a friend going to Italy in a few days and is going to stop by the islang of Cefalú, where the ruins of the themela abbey still stand. I have convinced him to chip out some of the paintings, done by unkie Al, while he was there. So hopefully in a few weeks I should have an original painting by the great beast himself...
|By Artemis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 09:00 am: Edit|
"Pussy on the other hand, thank the Lord, is soft and wet and pliable, though it's like some deep sea creature ... "
The red lips of the octopus
Are more than myriad stars of night.
The great beast writhes in furier form than thirty stallions amorous!
I would they clung to me and stung! would they quenched me with delight.
The red lips of the octopus.
They reek with poison of the sea
Silent and hot and langorous
My skin drinks in their slaver warm, my sweat his wrapt embrace excite
The heavy sea rolls languidly over the ensanguined kiss of us
We strain and strive, we die for love. We linger in the lusty fight
We agonize; our clutch becomes more cruel and murderous.
My passion splashes out at last. Ah! with what ecstasy I bite
The red lips of the octopus.
Old Uncle Al (Crowley), from The Book of Lies
|By _Blackjack on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 08:19 am: Edit|
I like broads with hairy armpits. Its like having a woman with three pussies.
|By Admin on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 08:16 am: Edit|
Ha, or how about this:
My parents were somewhere in between, didn't "noodle dance" but they were naked alot. But this does say alot for growing up here in the 70's.
Btw, sorry to mess up yer Madonna/Pubic fuzz thread, just need to put this stuff *somewhere*
Loved the God's eyes and the baby goats;
hated the lack of Lucky Charms, boundaries and discipline. We have nice traits in common (children of Hippies), like
adaptability, resourcefulness and a tendency to be more open-minded than not. But we are all a
little bit control-freakish, and we have no patience for people who romanticize the hippie era
uncritically. An accidental Wavy Gravy sighting can send us into a frothing rage.
|By Admin on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 08:01 am: Edit|
A far more pleasant experience than being at a Metallica or Judas Priest concert.
|By Verawench on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 01:01 am: Edit|
Head sounds hungry.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:56 am: Edit|
I'm Head_Prosthesis and I love the crunchy nutty goodness of Grape Nuts. The fiber in Grape Nuts keeps Head regular.
Pussy on the other hand, thank the Lord, is soft and wet and pliable, though it's like some deep sea creature that surfaced and dove down the throat of an unsuspecting goddess to peek out from between her legs. It gulps and winks and seeps fluid and has a salty sea water sort of taste that you might find when licking a conch shell. It nurses the penis like some kind of starving jelly fish whose only salvation is the milk from a man worm.
|By Bryan on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:54 am: Edit|
Pubic hair is a great topic! It's like flossing before you brush....
|By Verawench on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:51 am: Edit|
amazing how quickly a thread stacks up in responses when pubic hair is brought up.
|By Marc on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:46 am: Edit|
Pubic hair is about the only roughage I have in my diet. That and Grape Nuts.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:42 am: Edit|
Gagging on a pubic hair is an unpleasent event, until you think about how it got there. Then it's all worth it.
|By Geoffk on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:40 am: Edit|
Theres nothing wrong with being a fag hag--it's just, hey, what does that say about you if she's your girlfriend?
On the important hairy snatch issue, I agree that it can be fun, but cleaning your teeth afterwards is a bitch...
-- Geoff K.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:38 am: Edit|
|By Verawench on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:37 am: Edit|
"Ray of Light": actually, that's the one Madonna album I like. I do think it stands out. It's just that my sis played it to death.
And to throw in my $0.02 on pubic hair.. I hope it is either outlawed or phased out by evolution.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:36 am: Edit|
She is a chameleon. She is everything to everyman, angel/whore, mother/lover, passive/dominant...
She's the whole package and some limey director is bangin' her as we speak!
|By Bryan on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:33 am: Edit|
That's what is so unique about Madonna, she is like a chameleon, so many differen't looks over the years, and always sooooooo sexy. I regret that I've never seen her live.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:32 am: Edit|
Doesn't it though?
Then again a clear path is a hard working man's holiday.
|By Marc on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:31 am: Edit|
I like a woman with a hairy snatch. A little work to get to the pink makes it all that much more exciting.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:28 am: Edit|
I thought that when those photos came out she was the epitomy of Italian-bred beauty. I've always enjoyed her in her brunette phases. "Like a Prayer" "La Isla Bonita" and The recent Kimono Drag thing.
(This thread is starting to remind me of American Psycho)
The darker she is the better. I can't resist a woman with raven hair...
|By Marc on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:27 am: Edit|
I picked up the Damn's Grave Disorder the other day. Man, its good.
|By Marc on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:26 am: Edit|
The album RAY OF LIGHT does not suck. Its exquisite. Its the only Madonna record I own.
|By Verawench on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:24 am: Edit|
Madonna rocks. Just wish her music didn't suck so bad. I love to watch her on mute. She's created some of the most stunning imagery the pop world has ever seen. Vogue. Justify my Love. Erotic. Bedtime Stories. Like a Prayer (I remember that one from when i was a kid.. imagine how pissed off a country that's 97% catholic was).
Though I think I'd be too scared to sleep with her.
|By Marc on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:23 am: Edit|
Anything wrong with being a "fag hag"?
At tonight's concert, the audience was primarily
women and gay men. A far more pleasant experience than being at a Metallica or Judas Priest concert.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:23 am: Edit|
Go Girl Power!!!
|By Marc on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:21 am: Edit|
I like broads with hairy armpits. Its like having a woman with three pussies.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:15 am: Edit|
Well, Camille Paglia thinks like I do...
She's got a vagina and she knows how to use it!
|By Geoffk on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:14 am: Edit|
I don't know. In the 80's, I thought she was pretty hot, but when I saw the Pethouse photos and that "Sex" book, my first thought was "Hey babe--get some hedge trimmers, why dont'cha".
In the "married to a gay guy" movie, she also did just a little bit too good a job of playing a fag hag.
Maybe my standards have gone up too much. Living in Tokyo (aka Babe City) can do that to you...
-- Geoff K.
|By Marc on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:11 am: Edit|
I asked Jennifer why women like Madonna.
"Because she's strong, an artist, a successful business woman and a mother", she replied.
Madonna is an example of a woman who has it all...on her terms. Thats a pretty empowering example for other women.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:05 am: Edit|
And did you notice the chrome fish on the ass of that bull?
The kind you see on the bible thumping K-cars...
|By Head_Prosthesis on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:03 am: Edit|
She a lean mean fucking machine.
Not a big fan but still, I can appreciate her. My neighbor, who was a girl I would have liked to have had multiple sexual encounters with, was at my home with me watching the "Material Girl Tour" on cable. She said to me "How can you not like her? If she was sitting on this couch next to you and wanted to go to bed with you would you say no?". I said "Damn, You're right. Let's go upstairs" I got punched and elbowed in the groin but I never forgot that...
|By Marc on Sunday, September 02, 2001 - 11:49 pm: Edit|
She looked like some high-tone trailer trash ridin' that mechanical bull.
She's in amazing shape for a 43 year old mother of two. Good eatin'.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Sunday, September 02, 2001 - 11:43 pm: Edit|
The HBO broadcast from Auburn Hills, MI was pretty exciting even for TV. Maybe it was the Material Girl's homecoming, maybe it was the wine talking, I don't know! I enjoyed it. I especially liked seeing her in the Japanese makeup and kimono, the western outfit was pretty fucking sexy too.
|By Marc on Sunday, September 02, 2001 - 11:16 pm: Edit|
Madonna's show is a genuine spectacle. Incredible
lighting, sets, music and choreography. A combination of Cirque De Soleil, West Side Story
and Can't Stop The Music. I don't give a shit what anybody says, the woman rocks! She has created a stage production that rivals anything I've seen on Broadway. Very impressive.
|By Head_Prosthesis on Sunday, September 02, 2001 - 06:39 pm: Edit|
Don't go for second best, Baby!
Put your penis to the test.
|By Marc on Sunday, September 02, 2001 - 05:59 pm: Edit|
I'm off to see Madonna at the MGM Grand.
This is what Vegas is all about. Ahh, spectacle.
I'll return with a review.
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