Kristy Tit Fuck

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Thru December 2001: Kristy Tit Fuck
By Lordhobgoblin on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 01:16 pm: Edit

Heiko,

The prophet Brian's words were seen by millions worldwide. I'd call him a self-publicist.

Hobgoblin

By Chrysippvs on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 06:17 am: Edit

Save me Jeeebus!

By Heiko on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 05:45 am: Edit

Someone making stupid calls on the phone isn't a troll. Someone making threatening calls on the phone isn't a troll. It takes more guts to do that - I don't think he will because trolls are cowards.

Do you know the Simpsons episode where Homer calls PBS to donate 10 thousand dollars anonymously so that he can watch the end of the show? - "[...] but thanks to instant trace we found out it is Homer Simpson"
Maybe someone else will soon have to do missionary work in the South Pacific, too...

By Don_Walsh on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 05:12 am: Edit

Go for it, Marc, go for the jugular and the balls, at the same time. Although, in the instance of this troll, testicles may be elusive due to absence, or atrophy. This guy has ruined the forum for me, and others, and I want his head on a pike. Or a plate. Or Alfredo Garcia's head. Or Sam Peckinpaw's little black book. Whatever.

By Chevalier on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 06:44 pm: Edit

That's true, and anyone who tries to mess things up around here shouldn't delude him/herself into thinking so. There are people behind the words. Invasion of privacy and libel are in lawbooks for a reason.

By Marc on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 06:35 pm: Edit

but, this ain't no movie.

By Chevalier on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 06:20 pm: Edit

No offense intended, Marc, really ... but your latest post sounded like some line from every caper flick ever made! ;~)

By Marc on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 06:13 pm: Edit

Don,

a troll is one thing, this guy's a criminal. I'm going to bust him. And believe me, I have the
power and resources to see it done.

By Etienne on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 05:26 pm: Edit

Marc;
Go for the throat, man.
...and take pictures.

By Don_Walsh on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Marc, darlin', I ignored him, you chose to engage him, and I didn't say I was quitting, just making myself a little scarce. Which one of us if feeding his ebergy? Don't get me wrong, I am not blaming you for him, I just wish you would get with the program and freeze him out.

I know it is hard given that he assumes multiple identities ala Kristy, and who wouldn't care to ball Kristy? But, c'mon. Let's just freeze him out.

If everyone succeeded in doing that all the time there would be no need for action by K.

I really do and did appreciate your standing by me when I went round and round with this cretin, you stood up for me and you were counted. But I learned that all those who had been advising me for years to not go the eye for an eye route, were right, and I was wrong, and willing to admit I was wrong. Kallisti is right. A troll is not just any old asshole who wanders by. This is a special sort of demon from a deeper circle of cyber hell. DO NOT ENGAGE. Like a vampire you are about to stake, Buffy, don't look them in the eyes...

By Marc on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 11:59 am: Edit

the troll fell for the bait.

Threatening to use or using my phone number without my consent is a crime. My lawyer is contacting the appropriate authorities. The troll is going down.


Thanks to (you know who you are) for the help in tracking down the troll's internet activity. The information is invaluable.

By Heiko on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 11:24 am: Edit

"Most of them go unrecognised, do not want to make their views public, do not recognise (or want to make a big thing of) their wisdom"

Just like the prophet Brian ;-)

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 10:59 am: Edit

Royale,

I have read stuff written by so-called "Masters and Gurus" and have sat (and ocassionally still do) at the feet of a man others call a "Guru" and prostrate themselves in front of (I never prostrate myself before anyone I should hasten to add). I do not regard any of them as either a "Master" or a "Guru". Nobody deserves that sort of reverance. From what I have seen people who regard people as such in time become less critical of these 'Masters and Gurus', offer them too much respect, and treat what they say as automatically being 'words of wisdom'.

There are a lot of wise people in the world. Most of them go unrecognised, do not want to make their views public, do not recognise (or want to make a big thing of) their wisdom, nobody calls them 'Guru' (indeed they wouldn't want this), and they do not see themselves as anything but ordinary. The wisest words I have ever heard uttered (or read) were made by a schoolteacher I once worked with, and I can truly say they changed my life. She didn't even rate herself as clever and certainly wouldn't want to spread her wisdom or be thought of as a 'Guru'.

You'll find wisdom in the minds of bartenders or builders than in someone who writes books on his views or someone who preaches.

Hobgoblin
(We do agree on loads, but the more we agree the more we will find we disagree and debating how many fairies we can get to dance on a pin is good for the mind)

By Morriganlefey on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 10:22 am: Edit

(Could it be that underneath Bob's matter-of-fact exterior there lurks an old-fashioned softie??)

Bob, it's not so much that I'm offended by crassness. Hell, I was a shaved-headed punk chick in the 80's that ate crass for breakfast & crapped out spite (that crass enough for ya?!?). But, like a good wine (or absinthe?) I've mellowed with age, and find my ladylike upbringing creeping out more frequently.

Parasol in hand,
- M

By Bob_Chong on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 09:53 am: Edit

I always find it charming when Morrigan is offended by our crassness.

(And I assure you, I'm not being patronizing. I really do like it.)

BC

By Morriganlefey on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 09:48 am: Edit

I surprise myself by yet again agreeing with Marc. Hit the "ignore" key, man. That's what I've been doing on all the other threads.

What moved me to write on this one was the lovely bits of eloquence in Royale's starting entry (troll talk and this threads yucky title aside). "Absinthe is a romantic drink that through chemistry or fantasy takes the user on a flight of fancy. It is Oscar Wilde's genius, Van Gogh's tortured soul, Picasso's vision.." Thanks, Rick, for getting us back to the heart of the absinthe matter, and what brought us all to the fae verte in the first place.

"Still searching for fairies & enjoying a great drink along the way." And viva the ride..

- Morrigan

By Royale on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 04:48 am: Edit

Hear, hear marc!! If we just ignore "the troll" what harm can it do? We can just post around it. And if he doesn't take you up on your offer, I'll take his ticket and we can drink absinthe and discuss drug movies and racism. (insert goofy smiley face here.)

By Marc on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 10:17 pm: Edit

Don,

the troll is only as powerful as the energy you give him. Your suggestion of ignoring him is the best way to go. If you leave then the troll has won.

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 06:10 pm: Edit

At the moment this forum isn't fit for man nor beast, nor newbie, and it won't be till Kallisti does something about the asshole troll.

Till then you all won't be hearing much from me.

By Royale on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 03:18 pm: Edit

Hob
For 2 guys who basically agree we sure can spend a lot of time debating how many fairies can dance on the head of a pin.

I doubt that you have "no time for Gurus and Masters" and would hazard to guess that you have spent hours reading and studying at the feet of brilliant men and women. With teachers you don't always have to agree often times complete contrary ideas are necessary to progress. But one must have respect for what has come before. Furthering an analogy I already alluded too: Little Richard & Chuck Berry beget Elvis & Buddy Holly who beget The Beatles & The Stones who beget The Doors & The Who who beget The N.Y. Dolls & Iggy Pop who beget The Sexpistols & The Clash etc. etc. you get the picture


Don
Fair enough. I am trying to say that there are people out there who need to grow some "balls" and disagree with those who will gruffly try to push them aside and can feel safe in the knowledge that they are not alone. For the sake of an interesting and enlightening forum the ones who already have "big balls" should welcome outside opinion a little more, they may find that they learn something too.

By Don_Walsh on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 06:59 am: Edit

Frankly, Royale, anyone who hasn't the altogether prebuscent 'balls' required to post on this forum and stand their ground, isn't worth Kallisti's free electrons. Sorry. Well. not really.

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 02:42 am: Edit

Marc and Royale,

Good post Marc, you win on that one.

What I actually meant to say was that I do not care if anybody agrees with me or not. I am not concerned with whether I agree with others or whether others agree with me. Concerns like these lead to an inability to know and develop your own mind.

Of course I can learn from others, but that still doesn't mean agreeing with those I learn from. I make a point of resisting agreeing with people in order to try to keep my mind my own, perhaps I am wrong in this. I have no time for Gurus and Masters, nobody deserves that type of reverance and we put our minds in straight-jackets by awarding such status to other men.

As a teacher I am more concerned that pupils are able to think than what they actually do think. I see my role as facilitating young minds to be able to think and not filling their heads with what I (or the educational establishment) thinks they ought to think. If I am overly concerned with what they think then I am making the assumption that I know better than they do, (never underestimate the mind of a 7 year old, they have the advantages of less mental baggage and more creativity).

And finally I'm here because I'm an awkward, arrogant, little bastard and who quite enjoys posting here.

Hobgoblin

By Royale on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 02:04 am: Edit

Artemis- Fair enough all I was saying is exactly that. I was not trying to imply anything else. I do feel it is sad that " people who would like to discuss it here felt like they were intimidated by others in here from doing so a long time ago" and maybe we should collectively try to intimidate less. Not to say that blunt and opinionated feelings should be held back but maybe those who disagree with such opinions should step up a little more, after all this is a free forum. And on a personal note; I believe you should stay involved. You know your shit and I, as well as many others I am sure, look up to you as a "teacher or guru". You are the Little Richard or Chuck Berry of sepulchritude.com. If at times you are ornery or even arrogant that is no crime. You have put in the time and we can all learn from your knowledge and experience.
PS. If you knew how I felt about those two particular artists you would understand the depth of respect I hold for you.

Hob- Marc summed up my feeling exactly in his " Following your own path includes" post. I try to learn from all that is around me as I follow my own path. You can learn from everyone whether it is a wise, old, master or a pure, innocent, child. Of course, I don't agree with anyone's posts all the time but try to carve out my own opinions in comparison and in contrast to the opinions around me. A painter, a scientist and a theologian will look at the same sunset and see completely different things. The beauty of a forum like this is we are given insight to many different minds. We should absorb it all in order to wring out our own beliefs. Then we should pour those on others so they can do the same.

By Artemis on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 07:11 pm: Edit

I want to go, but people keep addressing me. Before long I won't even be able to READ the forum, maybe that will break my addiction. My friend The Nephilim laughs in my face every time I tell him I'm going to quit posting.

Okay, Rick wrote:

"I can understand if certain people are running far more "involved" endeavors and don't want to draw attention to themselves. It may be in their best interest to keep a low profile but as for the rest of us it is not like we are setting up sexual rendezvous with underage girls, and if we are please let me know."

I was referring strictly to distillation, not smuggling, consumption, etc. And the real reason people don't discuss it here is an amalgam of legal concerns (they want to stay out of jail), safety concerns (they don't want people who are less than stellar at following instructions to burn down their houses - distillation of absinthe is little short of boiling gasoline) plus the points I made in my answer to Item 12, plus the fact that, to be perfectly honest, some of the people who would like to discuss it here felt like they were intimidated by others in here from doing so a long time ago, and they gave up the effort. IF I were directly involved, which I'm not, staying out of jail would enough to keep me from talking about it.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Following your own path includes learning from teachers and gurus. There are times when your own path follows or runs parallel to another's. Exchanging ideas along the way, can make the path
smoother and wider. Hacking through the jungle of absolute reality can be exhausting, at times you may need a little help.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 05:00 pm: Edit

Lord,

you say "what others think is of little concern to me". Then why are you here? To see your own thoughts made public?

Strange comment coming from a teacher.

I deeply care what others think.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 04:00 pm: Edit

Royale,

"I don't want to change your mind BUT I do want you to try to change mine."

I'm sorry to disappoint you Royale but my only interest is to decide in my own mind what I believe to be true. What others think is of little concern to me. We each should concentrate on following our own path.

"I like Emmy will probably never take the time to study science enough to figure it out for myself"

Nor will I. I have enough problems fitting all my current interests, personal life and work related activities into my days without having to find room for the study of chemistry.

"but will happily read endless posts by Ted and others who have invested that time."

As will I but I won't always agree (or disagree) with what they write.

At the end of the day I really don't care whether everyone agrees with me or nobody agrees with me. I only care whether I agree with me.

Hobgoblin

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 03:50 pm: Edit

Artemis,

Nobody on this forum will flame you if you choose to continue a debate that you find worthwhile. Hang around a bit longer, what's the harm?

You say you're leaving and as you're a man who stands by his words you feel really that you ought to have gone by now. But it doesn't make you any less honourable to hang around for a bit (or even change your mind about leaving) if you want to.

Hobgoblin

By Royale on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 01:47 pm: Edit

Hob- I wasn't suggesting that I would shut up for good I was just realizing that my post was turning into a novel. I agree with you, "proselytizing, puritanical anti-thujonites piss me off" too but are sometimes a necessary evil to find truth. You are right that I don't want to change your mind BUT I do want you to try to change mine. I am here to learn and I want to weigh all opinions I have just found that the anti-thujonists so far have had stronger (and definitely louder) arugments backing up their theories. I like Emmy will probably never take the time to study science enough to figure it out for myself but will happily read endless posts by Ted and others who have invested that time. Great rebuttal to Artemis. And I back him up in saying this debate "serves everybody".

GeofK- I agree. We are agreeing in general. I personally really appreciate you sharing your opinions and overviews of this forum, and believe you have helped breathe a little new life into it. Thanks and keep it up.

Artemis - Well spoke. Clearly and concisely standing your ground my only confusion is you defend the last few points by saying that "encouraging people to break the law is risky business." Yet this entire forum is dedicated to the experiences and exploration of an illegal substance. I feel that editing ones thoughts, knowledge and opinions out of fear of some big Big Brotheresque internet specter almost defeats the purpose of this forum. Stifling conversation because one is afraid that the "authorities " are going to break down our doors and incarcerate us for drinking an anachronistic liquor is possible a little paranoid. I can understand if certain people are running far more "involved" endeavors and don't want to draw attention to themselves. It may be in their best interest to keep a low profile but as for the rest of us it is not like we are setting up sexual rendezvous with underage girls, and if we are please let me know.

By Artemis on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 01:26 pm: Edit

"THUJONE IS NOT AS POTENT AS HEROIN IS!"
Lots of drugs are much less potent than heroin and they are responsible for psycho-active effects

Sorry, at the risk of being flamed on my promise to go and away but hanging around, I have to clarify what I meant:

Thujone would have to be as potent as heroin is, to be psychoactive at the doses at which it is claimed to be present in absinthe, even if you accept at face value the most extravagant claimed doses. At least that's my understanding of what Ted and others have said and I don't believe it because Ted said it, I believe it because it seems to be true.

Thank you, Hobgoblin, this debate unlike many in which I've sadly allowed myself to become embroiled, serves everybody I think.

And Guillermo, thank you also. Humility is not my strongest trait, but I do work on it.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Artemis,

I appreciate your post and I would like to respond as follows.


1. Secondary effects
"It is not imaginary, but I have at times downplayed it here in the interest of quashing sensationalism, which I don't think does any of us any good."

Those who wish to discuss such effects are entitled to discuss them as they wish, those who don't are entitled to keep quiet. It doesn't apply to you Artemis, but there is a difference between downplaying and deliberately giving the false impression that 2ndry effects don't exist.


2. The only mind-altering drug present in absinthe is alcohol.

"Well I never said that. I did say the CHIEF one is alcohol and I stand by that."

Nobody on this forum would disagree with you, but it has been said that the only mind-altering drug present IS alcohol. This is a lie.


3. Thujone is not responsible for any mind-altering effects of absinthe.

Whatever your explanation (and I am not a chemist) I find it difficult to accept that absinthe does not contain thujone, particularly as EU legislation exists regarding the permitted level of thujone and companies producing absinthe for sale in the EU try to adhere to such legislation.

"I don't see how thujone could be responsible for any effects at all IN THE ONLY ABSINTHES I'M WILLING TO DRINK, because I don't think it's in there"

Well I no doubt drink absinthes that you are not willing to drink.

"Ted has tirelessly pointed out here (I donít understand why people wonít listen to him)"

Ted is a very nice guy who is very knowledgable about absinthe and he has my respect. However just because Ted Breaux says something, doesn't make it an indisputable fact.

"THUJONE IS NOT AS POTENT AS HEROIN IS!"

Lots of drugs are much less potent than heroin and they are responsible for psycho-active effects


4. Jade absinthe is the only modern product existing that in any way comes close to a true traditional absinthe.

"I can't speak to ďonlyĒ. Who knows whatís out there?"

We are in agreement here. Who knows what's out there (and just for the record Jade absinthes are IMHO superb). However just because they're not posting on this forum doesn't mean they cannot be experts (equal to Ted) regarding absinthe.


5. Any absinthe hailing from the Czech Republic is mouthwash.

"When real absinthe is available, why quibble over pseudo-absinthe?"

This is your personal opinion and is not a fact. I happen to like Sebor (I rate it just below Serpis and above Segarra and Deva) and as far as I'm concerned it IS absinthe. If you don't like it then that's a matter of personal taste and doesn't make it a "pseudo-absinthe".


6. Any absinthe hailing from France, Andorra or Portugal is poor.

"I certainly don't agree with that."

We are in agreement then.


7. Any absinthe hailing from Spain is mediocre (with the exception of Segarra, which is slightly better than mediocre).

"Every one I've had is mediocre, and yes, Segarra is only slightly better than mediocre."

Again all a matter of personal taste and not a matter of fact.


8. The homebrewing/distilling of absinthe is to be actively discouraged, ...

"I don't agree, in fact I've championed it in many respects. But encouraging people to break the law is risky business."

It is not our business to ensure people uphold the law. If they want to break the law then that's their business. If people don't want to get involved in such discussions then they can keep quiet. If people do want to discuss this then that's their choice.

continued: as is the home production of absinthe by steeping herbs etc.

"This should be discouraged, because "absinthe production" by such a method is impossible. Itís a waste of time ending in a nasty and possibly harmful product."

We can give our opinion on the likely result of steeping, but not all steeped products taste like shit (although my only attempt did). At least one forumite has I believe achieved a good product in this way. If one person can do it then I'm sure someone else out there (or in here) is also capable of doing so.


9. We should not discuss the possibility that absinthe may have mind-altering or psychoactive properties. Any such discussions should be crushed as quickly as possible.

"This has been hashed out thoroughly here, with Don the major proponent of non-discussion. His argument is reasonable and I agree with him. The current status of absinthe (already illegal) combined with anti-drug hysteria makes hanging that albatross around the green fairyís neck not in our interest to say the least."

This is the internet, nobody should be entitled to dictate what others can say. Don's a great guy, I like him a lot and he has my respect. He's entitled to his opinion (and I understand it) but we are entitled to disagree. We should not pretend things that exist don't exist and no conversations should on such topics should be stopped. If you don't like the topic don't get involved.


10. We should not discuss 'drugs' on the forum.

"See Number 9."

Ditto


11. The Absinthe Forum is the font of all knowledge regarding absinthe. Those who post here are infinitely more knowledgable about absinthe than those who are not members of this forum.

"If people come in here with bullshit, Iím going to call bullshit."

Fair enough. But this forum IS NOT the font of all knowledge on absinthe. Many more great minds (and absintheurs) exist outside of this forum than do within this forum.

"When Iím wrong, Iíll not hesitate to admit it."

Unfortunately this tends not to happen often on the forum as very few people believe that they are EVER wrong (not directed at yourself).


12. Anyone who deviates from belief in the above clauses is quite obviously a fool and should defer to those who quite are much wiser than he/she is.

"Nobody should defer, but everybody should give consideration to the possibility that others are wiser, keeping in mind that posts here are just the tip of the iceberg for many of us"

This consideration of the possibility that others are wiser should equally apply to those who believe that their own posts here are just the tip of their iceberg of absinthe wisdom.

Hobgoblin

By Guillermo on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:35 am: Edit

Artemis,

I enjoyed reading your last, point-by-point post. You write clearly, and seem to have some humility mixed in with your knowledge.

For myself, I know very little about absinthe -- but have learned a lot in a short period of time, largely thanks to the internet. I visit this forum, when I do, primarily to learn a little more. In fact, I just got my first bottle of absinthe (see the thread "Bottle of Tunel"), which I am glad to have, although I suspect from what I have read in this forum that it won't really be anything like authentic Pernod absinthe, and it may not even be an enjoyable drink.

As for "secondary effects," I've only tried absinthe one night, at the home of someone I met on this forum, who was generous enough to open his liquor cabinet to me. And I might add that his cabinet looks like a "who's who" of what I understand to be the "better" commercially-available absinthes, including the clear, label-less bottle of what I believe is known as "Andy's La Bleue" (sp?).

But back to the effects: you know, after having had a glass of Deva that night, then one of Mari Mayans, followed by one of Andy's, I did feel something different from the standard alcohol buzz, and I would describe it in terms of the clarity-of-mind or clear-headedness that others have reported. It really was kind of neat! And yes, I would probably drink absinthe again for that experience.

But I'm finding as I grow older that I prefer drinking for taste, which may be why I have come to enjoy Campari so much, which I like for its flavor complexity. And frankly, with the possible exception of the La Bleue, I didn't find the absinthe I tried at my friend's house that tasty.

So that's about it for me. I will probably try the Tunel sometime within the week, but I'll most likely wait for a friend to enjoy it with. I must admit I felt a little disappointed to find it 140 proof, as the "hotness" of alcohol tends to numb my mouth and thus cover or disguise any other, interesting tastes, but I received the bottle as a gift and am grateful. I'll post my reactions when I get around to drinking it.

Cheers -- Bill.

By Artemis on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 09:32 am: Edit

1. Secondary effects of absinthe are largely a figment of the imagination.

SOME absinthe has an effect different from that of any other alcoholic beverage I've ever consumed. It is not imaginary, but I have at times downplayed it here in the interest of quashing sensationalism, which I don't think does any of us any good.

2. The only mind-altering drug present in absinthe is alcohol.

Well I never said that. I did say the CHIEF one is alcohol and I stand by that.

3. Thujone is not responsible for any mind-altering effects of absinthe (and is in fact quite irrelevant).

The highest temperature reached in an absinthe still is roughly the boiling point of water. In order to vaporize thujone, you have to reach a temperature, if memory serves me correctly, roughly twice that high. You have to vaporize thujone to get it into the distillate (product of a still). So, you want to tell me how the thujone can get into the absinthe, much less be relevant? Maybe it could get there from the coloration herbs, but thatís just a tiny amount of Artemisia Pontica, which isnít even always used in coloration. It could get there by who knows what means if the absinthe is not distilled, but I've often said that stuff is not real absinthe, and little better than trash (and was regarded as such, and as unhealthy, even by the pro-absinthe faction in the Fin de Siecle). Let me hedge my bets a little: I don't see how thujone could be responsible for any effects at all IN THE ONLY ABSINTHES I'M WILLING TO DRINK, because I don't think it's in there. And even if it was in the drink, as Ted has tirelessly pointed out here (I donít understand why people wonít listen to him), in order for it to have a psychoactive effect on people, it would have to be as potent a drug as heroin is, and it is a scientific fact, THAT THUJONE IS NOT AS POTENT AS HEROIN IS!

4. Jade absinthe is the only modern product existing that in any way comes close to a true traditional absinthe (no offence intended towards Don or Ted as 2 out of the 3 Jade absinthes I have tasted are IMHO quite superb, but then that's my personal taste).

I can't speak to ďonlyĒ. Who knows whatís out there? I would be surprised if any modern product was closer than Ted's, because I have a solid idea of what constitutes a true traditional absinthe, and some idea (more than just about anybody else here, Iím sure) what Ted has gone through to make his.

5. Any absinthe hailing from the Czech Republic is mouthwash.

When real absinthe is available, why quibble over pseudo-absinthe? Mouthwash or not, the ones that have come to our attention arenít absinthe and arenít worthy of serious discussion.

6. Any absinthe hailing from France, Andorra or Portugal is poor.

I certainly don't agree with that.

7. Any absinthe hailing from Spain is mediocre (with the exception of Segarra, which is slightly better than mediocre).

Every one I've had is mediocre, and yes, Segarra is only slightly better than mediocre.

8. The homebrewing/distilling of absinthe is to be actively discouraged, ...

I don't agree, in fact I've championed it in many respects. But encouraging people to break the law is risky business.

continued: as is the home production of absinthe by steeping herbs etc.

This should be discouraged, because "absinthe production" by such a method is impossible. Itís a waste of time ending in a nasty and possibly harmful product.

9. We should not discuss the possibility that absinthe may have mind-altering or psychoactive properties. Any such discussions should be crushed as quickly as possible.

This has been hashed out thoroughly here, with Don the major proponent of non-discussion. His argument is reasonable and I agree with him. The current status of absinthe (already illegal) combined with anti-drug hysteria makes hanging that albatross around the green fairyís neck not in our interest to say the least.

10. We should not discuss 'drugs' on the forum.

See Number 9.

11. The Absinthe Forum is the font of all knowledge regarding absinthe. Those who post here are infinitely more knowledgable about absinthe than those who are not members of this forum.

I've worked very hard to become knowledgable about absinthe and I know vastly more than I did a couple of years ago, and I learn more yet almost every day. I'm willing to learn more still, or be disabused of faulty knowledge by anybody at any time, in or out of this forum. I think this is a healthy approach. If people come in here with bullshit, Iím going to call bullshit. If merely sceptical, Iíll say so. When Iím wrong, Iíll not hesitate to admit it. I think this is also a healthy approach.

12. Anyone who deviates from belief in the above clauses is quite obviously a fool and should defer to those who quite are much wiser than he/she is.

Nobody should defer, but everybody should give consideration to the possibility that others are wiser, keeping in mind that posts here are just the tip of the iceberg for many of us, who have various very good reasons for not being completely open with everything we know in a public forum at a time when the status of absinthe is tentative, many doors remain to be opened, and many opportunities might arise.

By Emmy on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 09:04 am: Edit

heya rick! good to see you around :)

i agree with your posts completely. as for trolls, well ya gotta take them as a given when it comes to message boards, and unfortunately there are always people ready to attempt to rally the troops and oust the intruder as it were. but this isn't reality and anyone can be a doppleganger, and just as easily anyone can be duped. in the case of staticburst, we see the web at its worst: a sort of psuedo stalker if you will. sad. pathetic. but unfortunately par for the course. this is a public forum, and though mob mentalities can work to keep unwanted folks away, the worst of the lot will always step forward to challenge.

online personas are a funny thing. its so easy to get caught up in your emotions and brag and boast and bitch and brawl louder and meaner than you could ever imagine youself doing in real life simply because there is no physical threat to you. the danger in this is that with the right skills and resources, if you piss off the wrong person, they can find you and the threat is real. we don't always take this into consideration... and neither do trolls. one of these days, one of these fights (not necessarily on this board) is going to escalate and find its way into reality. as easy as it is to be an outright flaming troll, it's just as easy to change your name and be accepted and gain access... it's all a matter of role playing.

which is perhaps why some thought at first (even if jokingly) that this kristy was a figment of the Head. Head is an online persona. few know much about the real him. we expect flights of fantasy from him. but truth be told, every one of us is just as ethereal and made up as Head until we meet and interact in reality (as some of us have done at various gatherings and shindigs)... and until we can physically touch and see one another, we really shouldn't be getting so uppity as often and easily as we do. this is a public forum and idiots have as much a right to be here as the geniouses.

as for thujone. well to be blunt, i don't fucking know, and i probably never will. i doubt i'll ever be interested enough in chemistry to educate myself and gain the knowledge to have a valid opinion as to the effects of thujone or terpenes or even alcohol for that matter. i know when i drink i get drunk. i know when i smoke pot i get high. i know when i drink milk i get gas. i know when i drink absinthe i feel secondary effects some brands stronger than others. i know i like jade. i know i like serpis. i know that la fee turns my stomach. i know that if a troll comes to the forum flaming and playing games that if no one else indulges the flames will die. we are the only timber in a flame war. our computers won't catch fire. the internet won't catch fire. only us.

anyhoo. that's all for now.

cheers!

em

By Geoffk on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 07:31 am: Edit

Well, if someone wants to drink absinthe to get high that's their business (but they'll be disappointed). And you're right, I do think there's something there besides just alcohol. It would't surprise me in the least if it were thujone-related--I think it probably is. But I don't think absinthe is a drug in the sense that an addict would WANT to abuse it to get high (once they've tried it honestly).

I think the FAQ is pretty accurate about what it does and doesn't do, so I'm pretty much in agreement with that position. I don't think we should be emphasizing the secondary effects or the drug aspect of absinthe and we're not, so that's fine.

I also agree with you that a position which totally denies the existance of secondary effects or the possibility that thujone might cause them is scientifically and practically untenable.

We're not really disagreeing here.

-- Geoff K.

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 06:39 am: Edit

Royale,

"Just to clarify one thing before I shut up, I didn't mean to imply that I feel thujone has any individual effect on anything. Until someone can convince me otherwise, I do subscribe to the "partyline" on this particular issue. I think the "secondary effects" description in the FAQ sums it up pretty eloquently."

I disagree with you and I don't subscribe to the Party Line on thujone. However I've no interest in shutting you up or convincing you to change your mind (as I'm sure you have no interest in doing likewise to me). What you think is your business and what I think is mine. But proselytising, puritanical anti-thujonites piss me off.

Hobgoblin

By Lordhobgoblin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 06:30 am: Edit

Geoff,

"The more we encourage people to believe it's a powerful drug, the more wormwood oil drinkers and FDA bans we get."

But none of us do this and if someone wants to drink wormwood oil then that's his problem and not mine as I didn't advise him to do so. We are not responsible for holding people's hands. Should we then deny the reality of the secondary effects which we (and from your post the lucid effects you experience are not unlike my own) experience. Why do we insist to the point of absurdity that the only mind-altering ingredient in absinthe is alcohol (and insist that certainly not under any circumstances whatsoever does thujone play a part in the mind-altering effects of absinthe).

"People should drink absinthe for the right reasons, but getting high isn't one of them."

Why not, and whether they get 'high' or not all depends on what you define as 'high'. It is not our business to tell people what they ought to do or why they ought to do it. Who are we to tell someone why they should drink absinthe? It's up to them, it's their choice. If someone wants to drink absinthe to hallucinate then let them. They'll be disappointed. (The first time I smoked a hash joint I was disappointed.)

We should all stop being such a bunch of tight-assed, earnest, moralising puritans and lighten up. Live and let live. Why someone else drinks absinthe is none of our bloody business.

Hobgoblin

By Royale on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 06:03 am: Edit

Thanks for the support.

I feel that thujone and the "secondary effects" issue ARE important to the "mystique" of absinthe as is cutting off ears. Neither of which are smart reasons to drink the stuff but definitely reason enough to inspire one to dig deeper into the myth. "Can absinthe be romantic, historic, poetic and fascinating if it's just booze?" Of course it can. It would be those things if it was just 100 year old Lysol, It wouldn't make it good and it probably wouldn't have websites dedicated to it, but the romance, history, poetry and fascination already exists. And like it or not the "secondary effects" and thujone are a part of that history.

I may have been curious about the "effects" of Absinthe at first and still to this day enjoy the "buzz" but I love the tapestry of taste and I too am enamoured with the history, rituals and paraphernalia. In short the "mystique" of la fee verte.

I haven't hallucinated or felt any extreme "high" but I have had a heightening of sensation and I am sometimes amazed that I can walk, let alone talk after certain nights of Absinthe over-indulgence but seem to do so fairly well. I sometimes have wildly vivid dreams, I sometimes feel inspired to create and usually I feel inspired to pro-create. Those are some of the "secondary effects" I have felt. But I will not claim that those are the only "effects" of the drink. Rastapharians use pot to reach spiritual plains yet most of the weed smokers I know are just lazy, dumb and hungry when they are stoned. Experience is an individual thing and we can only share in each other's by talking about it.

I think governments are stupid about many if not most things and I doubt that they will start a "war on Absinthe" because some fool jumps out of a moving cab while leaving a UK nightclub after an Absinthe binge. And just to play devils advocate, heroin has a pretty romantic "mystique" full of history, rituals and paraphernalia too. And I don't have exact statistics but I'd hazard to guess that we have more "just booze" related deaths than heroin related deaths in any given year.

As for the "stupid" people, they will buy a bottle of what ever they can get their hands on, (most likely Hill's) drink it, and tell their buddies they got "high" on absinthe. Next time they have to choose a "drug" they will probably stick with the cheaper and more reliable redbull and vodka or the much more obvious and easier to find cocaine because they don't like the taste of black jelly beans. If they do keep interested maybe they will explore and educate themselves and become intelligent active members of this forum.

Just to clarify one thing before I shut up, I didn't mean to imply that I feel thujone has any individual effect on anything. Until someone can convince me otherwise, I do subscribe to the "partyline" on this particular issue. I think the "secondary effects" description in the FAQ sums it up pretty eloquently.

By Geoffk on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 04:35 am: Edit

I think that's a beautiful screed and I almost wouldn't change a thing. Here's what I don't agree with.

You seem to imply that thujone and the "secondary effects" issue are important to the mystique of absinthe. You seem to ask "can absinthe be romantic, historic, poetic and fascinating if it's just booze?" Obviously, the answer to that has to be "Yes, it can."

Absinthe has a history, it has a flavor palatte, rituals and paraphinalia. And of course it does have alcohol. It doesn't need to be a mysterious drug.

Do I experience secondary effects? Kind of. I don't seem to get drunk as fast with absinthe as I would expect. There seems to be a certain lucidity that accompanies the intoxication, which is different than some other spirits. Know that the GABA effect and the alcohol effecyt work art cross purposes, maybe that's what I'm experiencing. I do know, however, that I've never had hallucinations, been high or stoned or otherwise felt anything that a serious drug user would be after. I gather that you haven't either.

You say, "so what's wrong if someone is convinced they're getting high? It's like a religious experience. Why should we discourage that?"

The reason is that there are already too many stupid people (and governments) that treat absinthe like heroin. The more we encourage people to believe it's a powerful drug, the more wormwood oil drinkers and FDA bans we get.

People should drink absinthe for the right reasons. There are a lot of these reasons, but getting high isn't one of them.

-- Geoff K

By Royale on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 03:55 am: Edit

I think the best thing to come out of the chaotic Kristy caper, which I must say was an intriguing insight into internet insanity, was Hobgoblin's stepping up, cautiously I must ad, to challenge what has become the status quo of this absinthe forum. I am a relatively new absinthe lover. I have tasted Hill's, I have indulged in Jade and ingested a number of brands in between. I am not a newbie or a seasoned vet. I am, like most of us here, still actively learning and I believe we should hear all sides of the story. If some frat boy in Boston wants to tell us about his "hallucinations" after two glasses of Hill's and Gatorade who cares and for that matter who is to say he didn't have them. I have felt what I consider to be "secondary affects" but I have never seen green fairies. Have any of you felt the spiritual rush of being "saved"? Have any of you taken a drug that you had no idea what it really was and gotten "high"? Have any of you seen bloody Mary in the mirror as a child? Light as a feather heavy as a rock? Communicated with demons and spirits through a Ouiji board? "Seen God" through a sexual partner? Encountered ghosts or aliens? Talked to imaginary friends? Can anyone tell you that these experiences were not real? Can anyone tell you that what you felt was false?

Absinthe is a romantic drink that through chemistry or fantasy takes the user on a flight of fancy. It is Oscar Wilde's genius, Van Gogh's tortured soul, Picasso's vision or is it just a green drink that poets would sip because tea doesn't get you smashed? It obviously holds something magical to all of us because I can tell you this; I don't waste my perfectly good sleepless nights in the Miller Genuine Draft Forum and I would be surprised if I saw any of you there. I want to read absinthe dreams and hear stories of wild illusions that some person on the other side of the world's mind has seen.

We need the science AND we need the soul.

Hobgoblin, homebrewers, drug users and any others who back "The Pro-thujone Party" stand up! You've nailed your points of dispute to the church door now bring it on! Take each of your twelve and fight for them. I, for one am listening. Convince me.

Let's open the doors and get some opinions from those who lurk in the shadows too afraid to register some silly pseudo-name for fear of being called a fool by a bunch of pseudo-names they have never met and probably never will. I know they are out there because I have met them in person in nightclubs and dinner parties. People who observe our posts but are too timid to share their experiences. I know it may be annoying to read the ravings of some "kid" talking about his "trip" but that is the beauty of this format you can always close the window or go to another thread. Or just wait for another Kristy to come along to rattle a few rusty cages.

Still searching for fairies & enjoying a great drink along the way.
-ROYALE

Administrator's Control Panel -- Board Moderators Only
Administer Page |Delete Conversation |Close Conversation |Move Conversation