Let's talk about absinthe

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Thru December 2001: Let's talk about absinthe
By Etienne on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 04:57 am: Edit

Or spend large amounts of our income on strangely shaped glasses, salad dressing decanters with funny rings around them, and useless little perforated spoons that you can't even eat your soup with.
Strange? Not me!

By Aion on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 - 12:53 am: Edit

Doctor, I need help. I see GREEN everywhere!
No, actually I am looking for GREEN everywhere,
but cannot find it!

Aren´t we a strange bunch of people?

Saw a French movie about the life of Toulouse-Lautrec on tv last night, film and
actors were excellent, but no one was drinking absinthe, there only were some nice (vintage?) bottles and some glasses with green liquid all hidden in ashamed in the background, no spoons and no ritual. So I was disappointed.

There are rumours that regular posters on this forum visit foreign countries and towns but having no time for sightseeing because they are looking for absinthe or absinthe antiques or absinthe distilleries or even strange absinthe herbs.

There are rumours that regular posters on this forum spending their nights sitting in
the vaults of their cellar watching clear liquid dripping out of dangerously explosive devices.
(Please don´t ask me for MY plans for TONIGHT´S evening).

Aren´t we a very strange bunch of people?

A.

By Zack on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 07:12 pm: Edit

"Chrysippvs, I haven't seen "December". How does absinthe figure in the story?"

Not me...but it's "Deceiver" and it stars Tim Roth as well as Ellen Burstyn and Rene Zellweger (sp?). The main character (Roth) is an epileptic murder suspect who drinks absinthe daily. It's a good flick, has a nice mood.

By Verawench on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Chevalier,

Sort of.. is the top where the bottle was placed? That's what it looked like in the film.

I put forth a challenge to all you absinthe sleuths to track down this lovely bit of footage and have it converted into an .mpeg... What a treasure that would be.

By Chevalier on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 07:05 pm: Edit

No way. His film's website is long gone, search engines seek references to the project in vain ... you gotta wonder if the only thing he's still "working on" is the speed and the absinthe ...

By Admin on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 07:02 pm: Edit

I got an email from the guy sometime last year saying a bit petulantly "I *am* still making the film!"

heh.

By Chevalier on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 07:00 pm: Edit

Verawench, it's a bit of a thread flashback, but ... is this the contraption you saw in that AMC silent-film clip? my picture

By Chevalier on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Chrysippvs, I haven't seen "December". How does absinthe figure in the story?

And does anyone know what became of the indie film project called "Speed & Absinthe"? I've never found any sign of its release anywhere. Sounded promising.

By Chevalier on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 05:59 pm: Edit

"Let's talk about absinthe", said Vera. Good luck.

Find more than two posts (out of the sixty-one thus far) in this thread that talks about absinthe in any way, shape or form.

Priceless!

By Chrysippvs on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 05:45 pm: Edit

as for absinthe in movies check out Tom Roth in Deceiver...great flick. Somewhat demonizes absinthe but it works well in the story...

By Etienne on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 05:31 pm: Edit

No thanks, that's a rough buzz.

By Heiko on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 11:40 am: Edit

Funny noone ever mentioned the movie that the nice little picture is taken from. It would have fit so well in this discussion.
Some ether, anyone?

By Chevalier on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 11:24 am: Edit

How about (re)presentations of absinthe on film? Yes, we've talked in the past about the new "Moulin Rouge" and "Total Eclipse". But what about "Time Regained"? And the early versions of "Madame X"? What role, real or implied, does absinthe play there? Surely the last word hasn't been said on this subject.

By Riku964 on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 11:05 am: Edit

I thought a "cock fight" was either a contest between 2 roosters, often with bets being made, or perhaps a slang term for some sort of homoerotic behaviour...now I know better.

The Takashi Miike film "City of Lost Souls" has an excellent cock fighting scene (with chickens, you perverts!) that is a brilliant spoof of that wire work fight scene in The Matrix. Unfortunately, the rest of the film was pretty dismal.

On the subject of films, a friend just got "Requiem" on VCD for $6 (woohoo!). I think I'll have to see it at some point.

By Lordhobgoblin on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 10:38 am: Edit

Vera,

If you view the discussions on absinthe that were occurring on other threads as a 'Cock fight' (as you imply) then you are unable to differentiate between a friendly discussion airing opposing views and a 'Cock fight'. A discussion where everyone is expected to agree is just a waste of time.

Hobgoblin

By Verawench on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 09:36 am: Edit

So I finally saw Requiem late last night.

The black drug dealer was sinister... but at least black people in general weren't reduced to bland sidekicks... Tyrone was a very distinct and compelling character with "dreams" of his own.

I kept trying to see "Requiem" as a movie about drugs. But I don't think it is... because then the movie's message would be "drugs are bad" and not much else - and that, I think, is too silly for the director to take on.

I saw this as a movie about people who pursue happiness with a twisted desperation and via faulty means. Heroin becomes "bread" - the very sustenance of life; being on television becomes a way to overcome alienation and to reclaim a family.

And the most awful and traumatic thing isn't necessarily the final fate of the film's "heroes". It's that NOTHING in the film assumes there might have been an alternative to what becomes of the four tragic figures.... or that there's any hope for them beyond the last frame of the picture.

The movie isn't "gritty" or "realistic" in any way, it's like a retelling of a really awful nightmare with no hint that the characters will ever wake up.

I kept waiting for somebody to wake up in a cold sweat screaming.

By Perruche_Verte on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 03:39 pm: Edit

Can't beat 'em, join 'em...

Depicting a black man as a drug dealer isn't racist per se. Add sexual exploitation of white women to the picture and you're drawing on an over 100 year old history of stereotypes, the same ones used by racist politicians to make several well-known drugs illegal.

By Royale on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 03:14 pm: Edit

Marc I find it interesting that you should say that the direction in requiem and traffic was racist but that waiting for the man is "as hip as ever"? While I completely understand your point on one hand. I think it would be odd and probably ring as untrue if the dealers in those films were Caucasian.

I currently live in downtown LA and while I see many white addicts I have yet to see any white people of power (pimps or crack dealers) in my neighborhood. In Los Angeles, unless you are paying over market price for designer drugs in nightclubs, you are generally dealing with black or Hispanic suppliers. It seems to me that in urban centers this has historically been the rule not the exception.

"Hey, white boy, what you doin' uptown?
Hey, white boy, you chasin' our women around?"

By Verawench on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 02:22 pm: Edit

I'm sorry, Hob, but people on this thread were having a good exchange going. I'm not going to ruin it for them by turning this into YET another cock fight. I'll even let you have the last word on this one.

By Marc on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 01:23 pm: Edit

cop out.

By Verawench on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 01:14 pm: Edit

Well, all this talk had me hop over to Hastings and finally rent "Requiem for a Dream". I've been meaning to see it since it came out... I'll have my review tonight.

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 12:54 pm: Edit

Vera,

Why do you keep going on about nobody discussing about absinthe while at the same time you fail to discuss it yourself? Why do you expect others to start first so that you can respond? Do you not have the self-confidence to start off these absinthe discussions you so vocally seem to want?

When you started this thread there was plenty of talk about absinthe on the Kristy Tit Fuck thread. We didn't see you join in the discussion did we? No, while all the absinthe discussion was going on you instead start your own thread to whine about why nobody was discussing absinthe. Marc was right in his first post on this thread.

I suggest you either put up or shut up. I also suggest you quit criticising others for discussing what takes their fancy.

Hobgoblin

By Marc on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 11:59 am: Edit

AMORES PERROS was the best film to be released last year. A masterpeice.

By Bob_Chong on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 11:38 am: Edit

It's about time that someone trotted out the cafe analogy.

As for talk of absinthe, no one is stopping you. Go right ahead.

BC

By Verawench on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 10:44 am: Edit

That's what I was thinking. Could it be true? Are they really all going mad? And are those purple hippos going to eat me?

By Perruche_Verte on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 10:33 am: Edit

So then, about absinthe...

[I've noted a trend here, where every explicitly absinthe-centered thread that doesn't have a particular subject turns into a movie discussion. Watch while I blithely ignore it.]

Does absinthe really make people crazy and violent?

Or is it just the Internet?

Certainly this forum has made for strange reading over the last few days.

By Bob_Chong on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 10:10 am: Edit

Anatomist:

He claims that he needs to get you into sympathy with the characters primarily

That's an interesting claim for the author to make, since I found none of the charcters a protagonist worth "rooting for." No one was likeable.

But it was cool seeing Louise Lasser again. As a kid, I loved all those Woody Allen farces.

BC

By Guillermo on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 09:45 am: Edit

On movies: I haven't seen Requiem, but I saw Traffic and liked it because I thought it portrayed well the complexities, moral and otherwise, of the business, in particular how small the world has become -- how what people do on one side of the globe affects people on the other side. The film Amores Perros, although dealing with a different subject matter and in a more local context, does the same thing.

Bill.

By Anatomist1 on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 09:17 am: Edit

The best part about REQUIEM was the bonus interview between Ellen Burstyn and Hubert Selby. The guy's life story and attitude are pretty intense. Unfortunately, based on my limited experience of his work, I agree with Marc -- although I'd probably call it something more like "scum porn" or "disgust porn". I remember reading parts of LAST EXIT TO BROOKLYN years ago and feeling like I had just put awful things into my mind for no good reason. He claims that he needs to get you into sympathy with the characters primarily, then you can shock and horrify yourself without the need for tidy moralizing on his part. It seems to have worked for Bob. I'm kind of on the fence. REQUIEM sort of had the intended effect on me, but a lot of the degeneracy also seemed unbelievable and contrived. BROOKLYN (the book, I have no desire to see the movie) seemed even more on the porn side to me.

K.

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 03:08 am: Edit

Bob,

I'm with you on "Sister Ray", although "Heroin" gives a more dreamy attractive side an airing.

Hobgoblin

By Lordhobgoblin on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 03:05 am: Edit

Blackjack,

"I never much figured out how anybody could find the drug use in Trainspotting cool."

I agree with you but I did work for Managing Director once who was a stuffy, straight laced, asshole with an over-inflated opinion of his importance to the world (a real prick if ever there was one). After watching Trainspotting he said it made him want to go out buy some smack and mainline it.

It beats me how anything in Trainspotting would make anyone want to do Heroin. But you do get some strange people. Perhaps with my old boss it was because the lifestyle shown was a million miles away from his own pampered, stuffy lifestyle? Who knows, but personally I'd rather not live like a junkie depicted in Trainspotting.

Hobgoblin

By Geoffk on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 01:48 am: Edit

If a person has a true addict mentality then glamerous isn't the point. They're looking for escape and for something to take the edge off of real life. A true addict see the shit flat in Trainspotting and says "Wow, these people have lives even worse than mine but heroin still keeps them happy. Think how happy I'd be!"

That's why real addicts are disappointed in absinthe. To the extent that it has drug-like effects (i.e. not the alcohol buzz) they tend towards lucidity, soberiety and imagination, not towards "zonking out".

Requiem is just coming out here. I'd like to see it. Films tend to be delayed by a few weeks or months before getting to Japan (although there are exceptions). For (a bad) example, Independence Day, which opened in the US on July 4, got to Japan in December.

-- Geoff K.

By _Blackjack on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 01:32 am: Edit


Quote:

No Trainspotting here (no one sees Requiem for a Dream and leaves thinking drugs are cool).



I never much figured out how anybody could find the drug use in Trainspotting cool. I mean, which part was glamorous: the withrawl hallucination of the dead baby or the guy dead of AIDS in a cat-shit covered flat?

Of course, there are people who are going to find junk glamourous no matter how it is portrayed. I knew a girl in college who decided to do heroin after reading Naked Lunch. Um, way to miss the ENTIRE point there...

By Zack on Sunday, September 09, 2001 - 12:59 am: Edit

I agree with Marc that the film (Requiem f.a.d.) when I say that it didn't show me much. However, I think Bob is right about the drugs...their lives are shown as pathetic, the drugs are just shown (way too much). If this was Aronofsky's first film I might have liked it, but after "Pi" it just seems lazy.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:58 pm: Edit

When my band first started out, we'd play Waiting For My Man for hours. I was just listening to it the other day, sounds as hip as ever.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:56 pm: Edit

I remember listening to the first Velvet's album for hours while speeding on bennies (white crosses, 15 cents a pill).
Waiting for my man, indeed.

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:54 pm: Edit

Here comes Head, he's all dressed in black.
PR shoes, and a big straw hat.

BC

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:51 pm: Edit

I've seen Drugstore Cowboy--very good indeed. It's been a while, though, since I've seen it...I'll have to look for it at the library. (Did you know the term "drugstore cowboy" was a jazz age reference to booze hounds? just learned that recently.)

IMO, the most genuine take on junkie culture is to be found in the VU's first three albums. The seventeen-minute smack fueled orgy that is side B of White Light/White Heat (i.e., "Sister Ray") says it all. Or at least it used to, in my former life. But that's another story.

BC

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:48 pm: Edit

As much as I disliked the film, there's no question that Ellen Burstyn gave a phenomenal performance.

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:46 pm: Edit

I kinda thought the electro-shock was less from the drugs than the basic shattered life she had. Dead husband, loser son, has little to live for and can derive no satisfaction from life, etc. The drugs just sped things along (that's why I called that aspect of her story as a crutch: she could have just as easily gone mad without them). Of all the charcters, she was the most developed. The drug aspect was part/symptom of her charcter flaw, not the main catalyst for her downfall.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:41 pm: Edit

Requiem was Reefer Madness for the art-house set.

For a more genuine take on junkie culture, check out
JESUS'SON or DRUGSTORE COWBOY.

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:37 pm: Edit

Marc:

One thing I'd add:

It gives you the vicarious kick of doing dope without the real commitment...it was all there to replicate the drug experience, to get you off.

Change the word "get" to "scare," and we are in agreement. Nothing glamorous. No Trainspotting here (no one sees Requiem for a Dream and leaves thinking drugs are cool). Just horrible stuff.

BC

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:35 pm: Edit

Bob,

with the exception of a couple of dmt trips and 1 expereience with salvia divinorum, I haven't been an active drug user in 3 decades. I do believe the
intelligent use of some psychedelics can be hugely beneficial in seeking insight.

REQUIEM SPOILER ALERT

My beef with Requiem, and to a lesser degree Traffic, was it exploited drug use in order to give the audience a vicarious kick, thus my term "drug porn". Under the pretext of telling it like it is, it was actually as extreme and ridiculous as Reefer Madness: the mother undergoing electro-shock, the son's arm
developing gangrene and being amputated, a random outburst of violence that had nothing to do with the film's story, the white girl being anally raped by the black dildo, the man-eating refridgerator...Give me a break!

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Vera:

IMO, I'd switch the balloons.

BC

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:20 pm: Edit

Marc:

I thought the actual ritual of taking the drugs wasn't overblown--at least in comparison with other aspects of the movie. Also, to me, Ellen Burstyn's descent to madness was a bit of Blanche DuBois and King Lear rolled into one. The drug aspect of her arc was a bit of a crutch, really (and you alreay mentioned the over the top elements). I think she could have gone mad without them. But then demonizing TV alone would have seemed too cliche? I dunno.

I am glad to have seen it, but I will never watch it again. I thought the acting and charcter development were fantastic. Top notch. Marlon Wayons should do more drama: he carried it off well. But I could see how--to a pro-drug guy (or at least an active user, no insult intended)--one could have a beef with it.

I liked Traffic, too. I thought the teen girl/crack whore arc was ridiculous, and I don't think the movie had some giant message that everyone made it out to have. But it was entertaining overall and better than most movies I saw last year (I'd give it three stars).

BC

By Verawench on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:12 pm: Edit

yeahman

I thought I'd recycle Heiko's old creation from a thread of olden days. It's just so damn cute.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 11:09 pm: Edit

Bob,

Requiem For A Dream is drug porn. It gives you the vicarious kick of doing dope without the real commitment. All the slo-mo, wide angle, solorization, fish eye lens, superimposition, overcranking, undercranking, saturated colors...
it was all there to replicate the drug experience, to get you off. The movie wanted it both ways, as a cautionary tale and as a mindbending thrill ride. I also thought the movie was racist. In order to dramatize the extremes a young white woman will go to get drugs, show her giving head to a leering, thick-lipped, sweating black man (the actor Keith David was shot from a low angle to make him look particularly menacing). And then show her being anally raped by a black dildo the size of a Louisville slugger. I hated the movie. It was false and hypocritical. And ridiculous. I've done a lot of drugs over the years and I've never been chased by a man-eating refridgerator or seen cupcakes and cookies descending from my ceiling.
Another recent film that depicted the drug-induced degradation of a white girl by putting her into bed with a black drug dealer was TRAFFIC.
Another piece melodramatic horseshit.

By Admin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:57 pm: Edit

I've been trying to steal myself to watch that movie, as I know it's both brilliant and heady.

Haven't been able to pull it off the shelf yet.

By Admin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:56 pm: Edit

Yessss, I got the extended version (it actually contains both versions). It comes in a cool wooden cigar type box with the wicker man logo and type burned into the box. heh. Also has a very good 30 minute documentary about the making and the fate of the film. Very worth it.

Amazon has it for $29.98, if'n you buy it from the link below, sepulchritude gets a 5% kickback (broad hint). heh.

The Wicker man

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:55 pm: Edit

If you're talking movies, I just watched Requiem for a Dream. What a great yet horribly depressing flick. Holy fuck. Nothing subtle in that movie.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Anchor bay released two versions of The Wicker Man. The edited American version is butchered ($19). Unfortunately, the longer, uncensored version is $35. I accidently bought the shorter version and ended up returning it.

By Admin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:39 pm: Edit

btw - just got the dvd for The Wicker Man. Weren't we just a talking about Christopher Lee?

So, turn your computer off for awhile, and get yer heathen love thing on.

Britt Eckland's snatch. Dang. Even I'm impressed.

By Admin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:37 pm: Edit

See Marc, and I thought you were attempting your usual bonhomie to lighten up the argument. I tried to play along, that's all.

There is still love here, it is currently just barely peeking out beneath the dunghill of ill humour.

By Verawench on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:36 pm: Edit

it's like brown acid. It's like really bad sex.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:34 pm: Edit

its like brown acid.

By Verawench on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:32 pm: Edit

It's like watching a circus.. the colors are bright, the music is happy and surreal - but the clowns have been drinking and the acrobats are having a hissy fit and the elephant is sulking in the corner.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:27 pm: Edit

oh, I guess I've completely lost my sense of humor
and irony. The vibe in the forum has got me on edge. Between the troll's bullshit and Vera's
wiseass attacks on virtually everyone in this forum, I'm pretty much ready to join artemis and
ride off into the sunset.

By Verawench on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Can't we all just get a chong?

By Bob_Chong on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:22 pm: Edit

There it is--you did it again!

By Admin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:17 pm: Edit

no, no, no ... you are supposed to say "No, it isn't."

And then I'm supposed to say "Yes it IS."

You: "This is not an argument. It is just contradiction."

Me: "No it isn't."

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:09 pm: Edit

and what is the subject of the argument?

By Admin on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 10:08 pm: Edit


Quote:

that wasn't an argument.




yes it is.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 08:45 pm: Edit

that wasn't an argument. turn your timer back on.

By Verawench on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 08:32 pm: Edit

*click* About an hour and a half.

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 05:12 pm: Edit

and if you bothered reading the recent posts in the kristy tit fuck thread, you'd see they're all about absinthe. Why don't you join in and say say something? Or is the conversation going over your head?

By Marc on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 05:08 pm: Edit

vera,

sometimes you really are an asshole. You want attention? Blow smoke rings out of your bunghole.

By Verawench on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 04:41 pm: Edit

*tick tock tick tock*

They must all be in the Kristy Tit Fuck thread congratulating each other.

By Verawench on Saturday, September 08, 2001 - 03:24 pm: Edit

...and try not to argue. I'll start my timer.

Vera
disenchanted

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