Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Thru December 2001: TURN OFF THE RADIO?
By Verawench on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 10:49 am: Edit

CBS was the only network NOT spewing news about Chandra all summer. They flatly and rightly refused to recognize it as news worthy of mentioning nightly.

The first Tonight Show with Letterman since the attack had Dan Rather on as a guest. The old man sobbed, it was incredibly sad.

By _Blackjack on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 09:39 am: Edit

I picked which channel to watch last week by finding the one which was least likely to keep replaying the crash footage (CBS, I think). That is NOT something I want to be desensitized to, thankyouverymuch.

By Heiko on Friday, September 21, 2001 - 02:49 am: Edit

"A hundred times a day it force feeds images of jets crashing into buildings but feels it must protect people from songs."

Sadness and melancholy are just as bad as marihuana - makes people think...

I've seen special reports on the attack that had the tape of the crash running as their background wallpaper. 30 cpm (crashes per minute) so to speak.

By Mr_Rabbit on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 08:35 pm: Edit

Vera, I love you too.

By Verawench on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 07:08 pm: Edit

Once, when she was a kid, my mom was picking berries in the woods in Poland. She strayed by herself and she saw a wild rabbit sleeping under a tree. She grabbed it and held it for a while. The rabbit was really freaked out, probably never saw a human being before. Then she let him go.

I don't know why I like that story so much or why I like hearing my mom tell that story. Maybe the Polish word for rabbit, "zajac", cracks me up.

By Mr_Rabbit on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 04:58 pm: Edit

Head, I love you man.

Thou art one of the good ones.

By Wiz on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 03:59 pm: Edit

Is it any surprise coming from corporations that are really only interested in generating anger in order to sell cat litter and laxatives? Songs of happiness and sadness tend to alleviate anger and that would threaten the cash cow of tragedy that has fallen into the laps of the media corporations.

By Wiz on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 03:56 pm: Edit

Is it surprising that the media treats people like children who must be protected from lyics which might convey sad images? A hundred times a day it force feeds images of jets crashing into buildings but feels it must protect people from songs.

By Perruche_Verte on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 12:03 pm: Edit

Pathan = Pushtun, Pashtun, etc. (damned non-Roman alphabet systems again!)

The Northern Alliance is dominated by the Tajik minority, though there is apparently some effort at bringing other non-Pashtuns into the fold.

Be wary of assuming too much about supposed "ancient tribal hatreds". Ethnic divisions tend to be fracture points. People who just want to get along with their lives under "normal" circumstances will often turn on each other when their society is under pressure -- e.g. from the Soviet invasion.

By _Blackjack on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 10:29 am: Edit


Best get that straight before playing with the tribal Afghanis.

Yeah, remember kids, we're only supposed to hate the Pashtun...

I mean, we live in a country where people beat up Indian Sikhs to express their outrage against the acts Arab and Egytian-arab Muslims whose leader is living among the Persian-speaking Afghanis. I won't say most Americans aren't capable of understandng distinctions more complicated than "brown people," but those stupid enough to take their rage out on innocents are. I would not be surprised if a few Hispanics get attacked over this too.

Try explaining the difference between Sunni and Shi'a to most people and you'll get "Which one's are the bad guys?"

By Tlautrec on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 10:19 am: Edit

Something like 10% of the Egyptian population are Copts. They are monophysite Christians (like the Armenians), and are often mistreated/ discriminated against by the Muslim majority. Although they speak Arabic, the Copts are not "Arabs"; they are the direct descendants of the ancient Egyptians, and their liturgical language, Coptic, is a direct descendant of the ancient Egyptian language, just as French, Spanish, etc., are direct descendants of Latin.

Don's point is right on - we'd better know these people before we start messing with them. The whole Muslim world is far more complicated than most of us realize. In this regard, Afghanistan, for example, is comprised of a mix of ethnic groups: Pashtuns, Daris, Pathans, Uzbeks, Turkmens, to name a few, who have quite different cultural traditions and who often do not get along with each other.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 09:04 am: Edit

If anything the Khabyle were one of the main non-beneficiaries of the pan-Arab movement championed by Nasser of Egypt. But indeed the arabs are not the Egyptians, although they are inheritors of the egyptian politic to some extent. As usual the British engaged in divide-and conquer, colonize, divide and govern. Many many of today's problems emerged from these short term colonial policies. Was King Faruk an Arab? Fuck no, he would have had one's head for suggesting it. The Turks ruled Egypt and their bureaucracy were the Copts. Christians. And still highly influential in Egypt's financial community. (Read Durrell's THE ALEXANDRIA QUARTET (four novels: Justine, Balthazar, Mountolive, and Cleo) and you will get a vivd glimpse of 30s/40s colonial Egypt as well as some of the finest and most evocative prose ever to be penned in the English language. "Larry" Durrell was a british civil servant posted to wartime Egypt, and a friend of Henry Miller and D.H.Lawrence. Also of my friend Claire Hollingsworth, hoyden of the British China watchers in Hong Kong, whose husband was killed while serving in the Egyptian administration along with his wife and Durrell during WWII. Durrell's brother Gerald was the longtime director of UNESCO and a world renowned biologist.

By Don_Walsh on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 08:40 am: Edit

Camus was, if anything, engaged not with arabs but with berbers (that is a derogatory, non berber term, the berber name for their own people is Khabyle.) The berbers are the indiginous, non-bedouin Islamic peoples of northern Africa from Morocco to Libya (Tunisia is in between) and parts of Egypy. The Tuareg, for example, are berber.

In France you will mostly encounter Khabyle Algerians, along with some Arab Algerians, and misc Morrocans and Tunisians.

The peoples Teddy Roosevelt sent the US Marines against were Khabyle not arab, the rulers in the capitals were Arabs or more likely, Ottoman Turks.

It's a good idea, before you either go slaughter a people, or go make friends with them, to understand them.

The arabs and the berbers do not much care for each other.

Just as the Iraqui arabs and the Iraqui kurds do not much care for each other.

In the mideast context, you can substitute "happily engage in genocide" for "do not care for". This is TRIBALISM not racism. It isn't quite same thing.

Best get that straight before playing with the tribal Afghanis.

By Wolfgang on Thursday, September 20, 2001 - 07:48 am: Edit

"But when it came out... everyone thought it was an anti-arab anthem"

I guess Robert S. in his early days assumed everybody would know about L'Étranger de Camus... And then we had a good exemple of racism / anti-racism reactions caused by ignorance and lack of culture.

By Perruche_Verte on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Partial playlist on my retro/freeform show the other day (probably not in this order - I'm tired):

Edwin Starr - War
Simon and Garfunkel - Scarborough Fair/Canticle
John Cale - Gun
Patti Smith Group - Ask the Angels
Black Sabbath - War Pigs
Talking Heads - Don't Worry About the Government
(I'm *very* surprised that isn't on the Clear Channel list)
Melodions - Rivers of Babylon
Whole bunch of Afghan traditional music recorded by an ethnologist in the '70s
Various qawwali by Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and others

By Head_Prosthesis on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 09:44 pm: Edit

Hey should I be mightily offended because of what Mr. Rabbit just said (i.e. me having a grandmother on her death bed and all)

Of course not.

By Mr_Rabbit on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Yeah. I feel kinda bad for those guys.

They were just making a communist birkenstock anti globalization statement, and now... shit.

I mean, you get the feeling they weren't picturing people in there, y'know?

It would be like making an album with a mushroom cloud behind DC on the cover the week before it happens.

Like making that joke about grandma buying the farm the night before she does.

By Bryan on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Someone posted a promo for that on www.artbell.com under the what's new heading dated 9-17. The similarity is creepy.

By Pataphysician on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 03:11 pm: Edit

Did anyone see the cover of The Coup's "Party Music"? The cover was done and promos had been sent out well before the attacks, but it hadn't actually gone on sale. Anyway, it shows the towers blowing up in a way that looks exactly, I mean EXACTLY, like the news photos. It's absolutely uncanny.

I saw it several places on the Web, but now all traces of it seem to have vanished.

By Mr_Rabbit on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 02:59 pm: Edit

It amazes me that the Cure's 'killing an arab' wasn't on the list.

For those unfamiliar, it isn't really about killing an arab, it's about Camus' book The Stranger.

But when it came out... everyone thought it was an anti-arab anthem.

Staring at the sea, staring at the sand, whatever I choose it amounts to the same thing, absolutely nothing... I'm alive, I'm dead, I am the stranger, killing an arab

By Bryan on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 02:11 pm: Edit

I think Slayer's new album came out on the day of the attack as well, it's titled "God hates us all"....gloomy coincidence.

By Admin on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 01:01 pm: Edit

hmm, according to these people:


it is not a hoax, but was not intended as a ban on the songs either.

By Anatomist1 on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 12:32 pm: Edit

If they need suggestions as to what to remove from airplay, I volunteer one and all of those hackneyed, sentimental mixes the radio stations put together by adding sound clips from news footage from the attacks to U2 songs and such. I can't imagine anything more nauseatingly cheap and manipulative. What I don't get is that they don't seem fundamentally different in character from the mixes they put together to commemorate football championships. It's like it is intended to be a nostalgic celebration of our media experience of the event -- which seems very sick to me.


By Zack on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 12:04 pm: Edit

The main rock station here in S.A. seems to be including as many songs from that list in their rotation as possible.

Bobby Darin and Frank Sinatra, yet no Sepultura on the list?? Maybe no one plays them anyway...

By Bob_Chong on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 10:20 am: Edit

Ikon Eon is out of the question, too.

By Wolfgang on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 08:53 am: Edit

BJ: Humm, I should dig out my old Bad religion CDs...

Wolf, listening to Conjure by Project pitchfork.

"I wanna be a creature, before humanity is on earth..."

By Pataphysician on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 08:16 am: Edit

Coincidently (or ironically) Bob Dylan's new album "Love and Theft" went on sale the same day as the attacks. Very upbeat, even giddy, tunes; a very old-timey sound. A nice salve for these times, but under the jokes and hootenany delivery, many of the lyrics are pertinent, disturbing, sometimes even eerily precient:

Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee
They're throwin' knives into the tree
Two big bags of dead man's bones
Got their noses to the grind stone
Livin' in the Land of Nod
Trustin' their fate to the hands of God
They pass by so silently
Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee

City's just a jungle, more games to play
Trapped in the heart of it, tryin' to get away
I was raised in the country, I been working in the town
I been in trouble ever since I set my suitcase down

Got nothing for you, I had nothing before
Don't even have anything for myself anymore
Sky full of fire, pain pouring down
Nothing you can sell me, I'll see you around

Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now

If you ever try to interfere with me or cross my path again
You do so at the peril of your life.
I'm not quite as cool or forgiving as I sound
I've seen enough heartache and strife.

Not always easy kicking someone up
Got to wait awhile, it can be an unpleasant task.
Sometimes somebody wants you to give something up
And tears or not, it's too much to ask.

Well, I'm stranded in the city that never sleeps
Some of these women they just give me the creeps
I'm avoiding the south side the best I can
These memories I got they can strangle a man
Well, I came ashore in the dead of the night
Lot of things can get in the way when you're trying to do what's right

I'm not sorry for nothing I've done
I'm glad I fought, I only wish we'd won
The Siamese twins are comin' to town
People can't wait, they've gathered around
When I left my home the sky split open wide
I never wanted to go back there, I'd rather have died

I'm here to create the new imperial empire
I'm gonna do whatever circumstances require
I care so much for you, didn't think I could
I can't tell my heart that you're no good
Well, my parents, they warned me not to risk my years
And I still got their advice oozing out of my ears

High water rising, six inches above my head
Coffin's dropping in the street like balloons made out of lead
Well, I'm pulling into Vicksburg, don't know what I'm gonna do
"Don't reach out for me," she said, "Can't you see I'm drowning too"
It's rough out there
High water everywhere

Well, George Lewes told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open up your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view
They got Charles Darwin trapped out there on Highway 5
Judge says to the High Sheriff, I want him dead or alive
Either one, I don't care
Highwater everywhere

Well my captain he's decorated, he's well-schooled and he's skilled
My captain he's decorated, he's well-schooled and he's skilled
He's not sentimental, don't bother him at all how many of his pals have been killed.

I'm going to spare the defeated, I'm going to speak to the crowd
I'm going to spare the defeated, boys I'm going to speak to the crowd
I'm going to teach peace to the conquered, I'm going to tame the proud

Well, I'm preaching peace and harmony
The blessings of tranquility
Yet I know when the time is right to strike

Feel like a fightin' rooster, feel better than I ever felt
But the Pennsylvania line's in an awful mess and the Denver road is a-goin' to melt
I went to the Church house, every day I go an extra mile
Well, I cried for you, now your turn, you can cry awhile

I'm on the fringes of the night fighting back my tears I can't control
Some people they ain't human, they ain't got no heart or soul
But I'm a-cryin' to the Lord, tryin' to be meek and mild
Yes, I cried for you, now it's your turn, you can cry awhile

By _Blackjack on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 08:05 am: Edit

I imagine Cat Stevens is out of the question...

I find myself thinking of Jello Biafra's monologue about Islamic Speed Metal...

By Maxpower on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 05:24 am: Edit

truly a list of harmful matter if ive ever seen one.i wonder if jacksons "smooth criminal" is ok to play?

By Bob_Chong on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 12:49 am: Edit

The best anti-Iran song was "Ayatollah," to the tune of "My Sharona."

As for this current list, it was created by Clear Channel Communications, the country's largest radio network, and is no hoax. Stupid, yes. Internet hoax, no.


By Aion on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 12:35 am: Edit

radios are usually well designed units,
there is a switch to turn them off!

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 12:32 am: Edit

I'm working on the lyrics to a new version of Day-O (H.Belafonte).

"Come Mr Taliban, Give us all your Saudis"
"Work all night on a Gatling Gun,
Daylight come and i wanna go home..."
and so on.

Could be the "Bomb Iran" of the decade?

But I ain't very PC.

By Don_Walsh on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 12:27 am: Edit

I think it's absurd. When the Mississippi floods, do the radio stations stop playing Proud Mary?

A hurricane, do they stop playing Blowin' in the Wind?

Some (radio) programmer is trying to be Mr Sensitive and get the P.C. award of the year.

Who really give's a rat's patoot?

By Frater_Carfax on Wednesday, September 19, 2001 - 12:07 am: Edit

A world where the only allowable music is Simon and Garfunkel's "Sound of Silence" played over and over and over......

Hello darkness my old friend!

By Aion on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 11:42 pm: Edit

What comes next?

Banning all worldmusic with arabic influneces?
Banning all gothic music because too melancholic?
Banning all Britney Spears music for making you cry (for an other reason though)?
Banning all music that makes you laugh?


That is exactly what the Taliban regime in Afghanistan did. NO MUSIC! QUIETNESS!

What happened happened, will probably happen again and it will help nobody to close eyes and ears. We have to survive our reality!


By Geoffk on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 11:28 pm: Edit

I think I read on Slashdot (http://www.slashdot.org) that this was a hoax of some kind. If it's for real, then obviously it's a little silly. You might just as well ban "London Bridge" ("Ashes, Ashes, we all fall down...")

-- Geoff K.

By _Blackjack on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 10:48 pm: Edit

But NOT "Get Back"? (Didn't we have a discussion about "No Pakistanis" a while back...?)

"Smooth Criminal"?
"Mack the Knife"?

As the promoter at the goth club I work at said to the DJ's: "If you try to limit yourself to songs that don't mention death or destruction, it's going to be very short set."

Personally, I was listening to punk all week. This whole thing brings back that old 80's sense of impending apocalypse that made my youth such a joy...

By Perruche_Verte on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 10:46 pm: Edit

Re "Ob-La-Di"?

I should think it would be good to remember that "life goes on"!

By Heiko on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 10:08 pm: Edit

They forgot Tom Petty's "learning to fly"

By Heiko on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 10:06 pm: Edit

"The Beatles - Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da" ????????

Is that considered to be too much of a nonsense title or is the rest of the lyrics inappropriate?

By Bob_Chong on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 09:46 pm: Edit

Maybe they would seem sarcastic?

By Perruche_Verte on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 09:40 pm: Edit

Some of them could indeed be seen as tasteless, but:

"What A Wonderful World"?

By Bob_Chong on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 09:28 pm: Edit

There is a list of songs that have been deemed inappropriate to play right now:


Interesting reading.


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