Fucking cheap or what!

Sepulchritude Forum: The Absinthe Forum Thru December 2001: Fucking cheap or what!
By Tavarua on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 02:18 pm: Edit

Do the math, Rabid. If you add up the letters to "dubious liquids" they equal 13. 13 May not be the notorious 11, but they are so close, do you want to take that chance. Didn't think so.

By Mr_Rabid on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 01:59 pm: Edit

But...but I LIKE dubious liquids, dammit!

By Tabreaux on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 01:36 pm: Edit

I may mention that buying and shipping such an item is very risky at this point in time. The bottle is being sent to a safe location in France, where it will be kept pending 'escorted' transport at a later time. Shipping dubious liquids to the U.S. at the present is not wise.

By Tabreaux on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 01:33 pm: Edit

The transaction appears to be complete, and we'll know in due time. The bottle will be examined and its integrity verified with the photos, it's contents will be analyed and logged, following which it will remain in a state of preservation.

By Tavarua on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 01:26 pm: Edit

Thanks for the translation. If this is not bullshit, then someone did get a hell of a deal. But the fact that there is almost no evaporation in the bottle, especially with the dilapidated condition of the seal, has to arouse some suspicion. But I guess that’s why it did sell for so cheap. Hell, at that price, you could have flown to France to check the quality, stayed a night or two, and flown back, and still would have gotten a better deal than if bought at auction.

“No no, I wont translate by "this is a piece of czech crap you shouldn't buy and let this crazy wolf buy it instead"

Why not, it’s not a bad strategy, that is, if used against non-forum members;-)

Ted, let us know whether or not this is the real deal. That way, if it is a hoax, maybe the relief will come and the nightmares will stop.

By Wolfgang on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 12:18 pm: Edit

As you can see, many foromit can help you with your french translation.

(No no, I wont translate by "this is a piece of czech crap you shouldn't buy and let this crazy wolf buy it instead"...;-)).

By Artemis on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 11:31 am: Edit

Hello, I'm writing to you in French because I can better express myself that way. Numerous Americans have posed questions to me about this bottle; regrettably, I am not an absinthe specialist. At any rate the cork is very old (because very eroded), furthermore part of the wax seal remains, inscribed "Pernod Sons". So the chance is very strong that it contains the original liquid.
Cordially, Claude

By Tavarua on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 11:06 am: Edit


Take I a look:

“bonjour , je vous écrit en français car je peux mieux m'exprimer . beaucoup d'américains me posent des questions sur cette bouteille hélas , je ne suis pas un spécialiste de l'absinthe . en tous les cas le bouchon est très vieux ( car très érodé ) , de plus il reste une partie du cachet de cire ou il est écrit " pernod fils " donc il y a de très forte chances que ce soit le liquide d'origine . cordialement claude.”

This is the response from that Claude fellow when I asked him about the contents of that Pernod bottle everyone is talking about.

Not that it really matters know, but I would greatly appreciate the translation. Thanks Wolfgang.


By Wolfgang on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 09:50 am: Edit

If someone needs help to translate small messages form time to time, I can do it for you.

By Tavarua on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 08:52 am: Edit

“and insisting on writing in French.”

Friggin French, oh wait….

What bugged me was that I had written to one of these dealers and they responded in English, hence they understood English. But they responded in French. Needless to say, I have no idea what they’re response was. But I will say, the response was timely, just a few hours after I sent the e-mail, I got a reply.

By Etienne on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 04:18 am: Edit

Thanks for the warning, David. I've already gotten the idea that things are a bit different with the new people that are listing absinthe items on eBay.

Like really taking their time responding to e-mails at the end of auction, and insisting on writing in French. (My French stinks!)

By Oxygenee on Tuesday, October 23, 2001 - 01:28 am: Edit

A word of caution on the new iBazar sellers on eBay:
As Petermarc and others will confirm, the culture on iBazar is (or rather was) different from eBay. Most eBay sellers will go out of their way to accurately describe the item on offer, and then ship promptly and securely - no one wants to receive negative feedback. eBay is also a tightly policied environment, where things like shill bidding are quickly discovered and stopped. iBazar was much more of a "buyer beware" environment (something that mirrors the overall French auction scene which is far less buyer-friendly than USA or UK collectors are accustomed to). Many sellers have at least some negative feedback - something that seems to be dismissed with a Gallic shrug as being of no great consequence.

In 50 odd transactions on eBay I've never experienced a problem. In 30 odd transactions on iBazar:
I've twice had the "oops the item broke just as I was about to ship it" scam that Petermarc referred to: the vendor got a higher offer after the sale.
I've several times had goods sent to me in really disgracefully inadequate packing (after I had specifically requested and offered to pay extra for very secure packaging). I've never got a refund out of an iBazar seller for goods broken in transit as a result of poor packaging - in some cases they haven't even acknowledged or responded to repeated emails.
Items often contain faults not mentioned in the description, which unlike eBay, are typically extremely brief. Its important to ask additional questions if you have even the slightest doubts (and if the seller avoids answering your question directly but says instead "I am certain you will be very happy with this item", BEWARE!).
Shill bidding is VERY common, and doesn't seem to be regarded as anything really morally wrong. An otherwise honest absinthe dealer well known to some of you (NOT Phil of course) routinely bids on his own lots under several alias's (or sometimes sells items under an alias, pretending to have found them in an "old cellar" - a variation of the scam our friend Cormenier specialises in...)
If you pay in any other currency than Francs, the seller will likely charge you up to 150FF in bank fees. Few people in France seem to accept PayPal.

All of the above are generalisations of course - there are many honest, accurate and conscientious vendors on iBazar. The ratio of problem sellers though is definitely much higher than on eBay.

With time, as the iBazar sellers get used to the eBay environment, I am sure that all these problems will disappear - but be careful in the meantime. Of course on the positive side, the inclusion of iBazar has greatly enriched the quality of the absinthiana offerings on eBay, so there's lots of upside as well.

By Wolfgang on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:26 pm: Edit

All and all, it's a good thing I didn't look at ebay in the last month, I could have been lucky and load this damn credit card again... and when I think about it, eventualy I could probably buy a whole case of jade Edouard at that price... But still...

By Wolfgang on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Ho, maybe that explain why there's so much nice spoons on ebay this week...

By Timk on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 05:57 pm: Edit

yes, the merger will mean a nice increase in the absinthe collectables avaliable on ebay, though in its day, ibazar was not too bad price wise

By Petermarc on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 04:51 pm: Edit

the auction was ibazar france (now a subsidiary of ebay, inc)...
and try not to buy your vintage absinthe from collectors...

By Timk on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 04:24 pm: Edit

of course, if he doesnt know what he / she has... :)

By Timk on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 04:23 pm: Edit

"there are no values! yeeehaawww"

I realise that, but $3500 is what one would expect to be charged for a mint bottle of pernod fils by a collector who knows what it is, its a guide.

By Tabreaux on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 04:14 pm: Edit

Actually, the bottle was purchased by a good friend of mine.

"...also been told that even though i won the bid, that someone else e-mailed afterward and offered more money, and that is ok by the auction rules."

No, it is a proven way to lose your Ebay privileges at the very least. Ebay's usage rules reveals the following.....


"Refusing payment and failing to deliver an item at the end of a successful transaction."

If the transaction has been completed (e.g. money wired to an account), then it is a legal matter.

By Admin on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 03:41 pm: Edit

cuz winning bid is slightly higher?

By Verawench on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 03:30 pm: Edit

seraphymel@aol.com (80) FRF 5,532.00 Oct-22-01 12:09:38 PDT

oxygenee (53) FRF 5,432.00 Oct-22-01 12:09:44 PDT

Just how exactly does the winning bid go to someone who bid 6 seconds BEFORE oxygenee?

By Petermarc on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 03:12 pm: Edit

there are no values! yeeehaawww!
maybe this will bring some realism to the whole thing...

By Petermarc on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 03:05 pm: Edit

i have been, well 'victim' is too hard a word, because there's always something else, to an on-line auction seller who had accidentally 'broken' his offering when i got too good a deal...also been told that even though i won the bid, that someone else e-mailed afterward and offered more money, and that is ok by the auction rules...pitiful...i think this bottle is legit...

By Timk on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 03:04 pm: Edit

obviously i realise u didnt buy it - just explaining my first question

Wolfgang - probably original content - I lied in a vain attempt to reduce the competition :) - I have seen $3500 bandied about for Pernod Fils values, I dont know about rarer ones like C.F. Berger, or Cuseniers Oxygenee - anyone know market values for these?

By Timk on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 03:01 pm: Edit

Ted - didnt know if u bought directly or onder a pseudonym, but neway - the seller just said the following to me on the bottle:

"bonjour , je vais écrire en français car je peux mieux m'exprimer , comme
on peut le voir sur une des photos
il reste un morceaux du cachet de cire ou l'on peut lire " pernod fils " ,
d'autre part le bas du bouchon dans la bouteille
est trés érodé , c'est pour cette raison que je pense que cette bouteille
n'a pas été ouverte ; le verre est teinté mais le
liquide à l'intérieur à l'air d'ètre jaune . ètes vous un spécialiste de
l'absinthe pouvez me donner des renseignement sur l'absinthe .

cordialement claude ."

"j'ai oublié de vous cette bouteille provient de drouot à paris"

By Tabreaux on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 02:27 pm: Edit

"watch to see if the bottle gets 'broken' before it is delivered..."

Yes Peter, I am aware of the 'broken bottle' syndrome, and I have advised the buyer. Buyer and seller are currently communicating to reaffirm that there won't be any of the 'broken bottle' syndrome. I've had one such dishonest character (who shall remain nameless for the time being) act in such a manner to cause the 'broken bottle' syndrome for a transaction that had already transpired. The person who caused the 'bottle breakage' caused some financial stress that almost warranted me getting the regional authorities involved in the matter (bottles weren't all that were 'broken'), as well as me taking a trip abroad to 'rectify' things.

By Wolfgang on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 02:22 pm: Edit

Well, was it Sebor in it or was it the original content ?

The seal is still on the cork but doesn`t go over the bottle`s opening...I doubt. The buyer probably paid big money for a refilled bottle...But it`s still a great collector`s item.

That leads me to the big question : Do any of you have some advices in buying vintage absinthes and what`s the average value of a full sealed bottle of vintage premium absinthe ?

By Tabreaux on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 01:46 pm: Edit

BTW Tim, no, the winning bidder is not me. As you can see, I did not bid on that bottle.

By Tabreaux on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Care to elaborate?

By Petermarc on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 01:34 pm: Edit

watch to see if the bottle gets 'broken' before it is delivered...

By Timk on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Thats not you is it? : - )

By Tabreaux on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 01:18 pm: Edit

No worries Tim, it is going to a good home where it will be well cared for.

By Timk on Monday, October 22, 2001 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Damn it, I wish i had more cash : - ), the filled with sebor bit was obvious bs - the contents are described as yellowish green, the owner didnt know what it was worth, and aparently it was cached. He also says that the remains of the seal are on the top indicating that it may not have been opened - there is seal running over the class and cork. But look at the levels - its as good as Teds!


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